Zach starting Thursday

[Beerfish]

Wilson does a lot of things wrong no doubt about it and not enough things right but one thing he does that is very right is not turn the ball over relative to others of his ilk.

Turnovers per game ratio (fumbles + ints / games)

Justin Fields 1.88 (27 fumbles)

Mike White 1.57 (1 fumble)

Trevor Lawrence 1.35 (18 fumbles)

Davis Mills 1.28 (10 fumbles)

Mac Jones 1.18 (12 fumbles)

Zach Wilson 1.10 (6 fumbles)

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

You weren't in the huddle , you don't know what the play call was or if the receivers all ran correct routes. You simply see a bad throw on film and make assumptions based on the fact you think Zach sucks.  How many ways are you guys going to try to say the same things, all QB's make bad reads and throws .  

Lol man ? they showed the slow mo over and over. He didn’t READ anything! what was said in the huddle has absolutely no bearing on his actions. I know they didn’t say “ as soon as the ball is snapped zach, fix yours eyes immediately on this receiver so everyone in the world knows you are going to throw there, and then throw there no matter what the coverage looks like “ lol 

[Ron Rico]

Oh bothuh. 

Everything is going to be fine, Piglet.

[Creepy Lurker]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Wilson does a lot of things wrong no doubt about it and not enough things right but one thing he does that is very right is not turn the ball over relative to others of his ilk.

Turnovers per game ratio (fumbles + ints / games)

Justin Fields 1.88 (27 fumbles)

Mike White 1.57 (1 fumble)

Trevor Lawrence 1.35 (18 fumbles)

Davis Mills 1.28 (10 fumbles)

Mac Jones 1.18 (12 fumbles)

Zach Wilson 1.10 (6 fumbles)

I think a more interesting stat would be turnovers/yds or TDs. How much risk is being taken that results in moving the ball/scoring. You can have a very low turnover number and even lower offensive production. It would be interesting to see this. It does no good to not turn the ball over much at the expense of only having half the offensive production that is expected of a QB. 

[jgb]

On 12/20/2022 at 5:46 PM, Jet Nut said:

Why do fans whine about this fanbase? 
Win or lose that stadium is sold out, at the top of attendance #’s, even with 12 years out of the playoffs.  For all the bitching and moaning this is one loyal fanbase, one of, if not the best in the NFL.  Win or lose 

Two types of Jets fans… those that complain about the team… and those that complain about those that complain about the team.

[Larz]

Zach’s gift went over well. So there’s that 

 

[DireJet]

5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Wilson does a lot of things wrong no doubt about it and not enough things right but one thing he does that is very right is not turn the ball over relative to others of his ilk.

Turnovers per game ratio (fumbles + ints / games)

Justin Fields 1.88 (27 fumbles)

Mike White 1.57 (1 fumble)

Trevor Lawrence 1.35 (18 fumbles)

Davis Mills 1.28 (10 fumbles)

Mac Jones 1.18 (12 fumbles)

Zach Wilson 1.10 (6 fumbles)

This is true. What are the passing attempt breakdowns of all those QBs, though? If ZW throws the ball 35+ times, he’s definitely throwing at least one pick this season. For 2022:

Vs Pitt (36 passes/2INT)

Vs NE (41 passes/3INT)

vs Lions (36 passes/1INT)

And let’s be honest if the Lions defensive backs had an ounce of ball awareness it easily could’ve been 3-4 picks. He hasn’t  thrown a  pick this year when he’s limited to 26 passes or fewer. 
 

 

[xJayce]

24 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

who’s your daddy now

My LOL moment of the week. Thank you.  

[Barry McCockinner]

10 minutes ago, Larz said:

Zach’s gift went over well. So there’s that 

 

These MFers better give him at least 5 seconds to run in circles tomorrow night.

[56mehl56]

19 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Lol man ? they showed the slow mo over and over. He didn’t READ anything! what was said in the huddle has absolutely no bearing on his actions. I know they didn’t say “ as soon as the ball is snapped zach, fix yours eyes immediately on this receiver so everyone in the world knows you are going to throw there, and then throw there no matter what the coverage looks like “ lol 

Ok you were able to read his eyes from the video and know exactly what happened - got it. 

[Dunnie]

This is true. What are the passing attempt breakdowns of all those QBs, though? If ZW throws the ball 35+ times, he’s definitely throwing at least one pick this season. For 2022:
Vs Pitt (36 passes/2INT)
Vs NE (41 passes/3INT)
vs Lions (36 passes/1INT)
And let’s be honest if the Lions defensive backs had an ounce of ball awareness it easily could’ve been 3-4 picks. He hasn’t  thrown a  pick this year when he’s limited to 26 passes or fewer. 
 
 

... well... he is also taking much deeper shots while maintaining a respectable int ratio. This kid still has a chance.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Beerfish]

4 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I think a more interesting stat would be turnovers/yds or TDs. How much risk is being taken that results in moving the ball/scoring. You can have a very low turnover number and even lower offensive production. It would be interesting to see this. It does no good to not turn the ball over much at the expense of only having half the offensive production that is expected of a QB. 

TD pass / turnover:

Davis Mills: .906

Mac Jones: .878

Trevor Lawrence: .857

Mike White: .727

Zach Wilson: .652

Justin Fields: .468

 

QB winning %

Mac Jones: .536

Zach Wilson .381

Mike White: .333

Trevor Lawrence: .290

Justin Fields: .217

Davis Mills: .143

[DireJet]

4 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

... well... he is also taking much deeper shots while maintaining a respectable int ratio. This kid still has a chance.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

He took mostly questionable deep shots vs the Lions that somehow all averted disaster but not sure if that’s the case in general. Don’t recall him airing it out too much this year. You can prob find those stats though. 

[Beerfish]

10 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

These MFers better give him at least 5 seconds to run in circles tomorrow night.

One of the dumbest traditions around imo, the olineman are already being paid to block for you and some paid a great deal.

Same f'ckers wearing Mike white t-shirts after one game are happy to accept this stuff.

I still recall Darnold getting gifts for the worst oline in the league and a center who literally could not snap the ball and they bitched about his gifts.  (If i recall it was custom really nice BBQ sets)

[DireJet]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

TD pass / turnover:

Davis Mills: .906

Mac Jones: .878

Trevor Lawrence: .857

Mike White: .727

Zach Wilson: .652

Justin Fields: .468

 

QB winning %

Mac Jones: .536

Zach Wilson .381

Mike White: .333

Trevor Lawrence: .290

Justin Fields: .217

Davis Mills: .143

[Beerfish]

Just now, DireJet said:

I was asked by the previous poster to provide more data, I did. 

If you do not like the data refute it.

[DireJet]

Just now, Beerfish said:

I was asked by the previous poster to provide more data, I did. 

If you do not like the data refute it.

QB wins is festering like pitcher wins. Gonna need more nerds here to defeat it. I’m on it. 

[Barry McCockinner]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

One of the dumbest traditions around imo, the olineman are already being paid to block for you and some paid a great deal.

Same f'ckers wearing Mike white t-shirts after one game are happy to accept this stuff.

I still recall Darnold getting gifts for the worst oline in the league and a center who literally could not snap the ball and they bitched about his gifts.  (If i recall it was custom really nice BBQ sets)

Should have went with isotoners.

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, DireJet said:

QB wins is festering like pitcher wins. Gonna need more nerds here to defeat it. I’m on it. 

Turnovers lead to loses in football, Wilson turns it over less and has a higher win % than some of the others.

The guy you want to look at in reality is Fields, the guy everyone just loves these days because hes running for 100 yards a game.  He also turns it over at a ghastly rate, doesn't throw that many tds and get sacked an unholy amount of time and his win % is bad.

Unless Wilson racks up three wins in the next three games he is at best going to be competing with White to start next year, he has not progressed enough at the things you need from your QB.

The stats stand though, he does not turn it over relative to some of his peers.  (especially fumbles)

[DireJet]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Turnovers lead to loses in football, Wilson turns it over less and has a higher win % than some of the others.

The guy you want to look at in reality is Fields, the guy everyone just loves these days because hes running for 100 yards a game.  He also turns it over at a ghastly rate, doesn't throw that many tds and get sacked an unholy amount of time and his win % is bad.

Unless Wilson racks up three wins in the next three games he is at best going to be competing with White to start next year, he has not progressed enough at the things you need from your QB.

The stats stand though, he does not turn it over relative to some of his peers.  (especially fumbles)

He does when he has to throw it 35+ times (like a big time QB draft pick should be able to). So not sure your findings are as clear cut as you think. But hopefully he doesn’t spend his whole career as a neutered game manager throwing it less than 30X a game! 

[ylekram]

4 hours ago, Larz said:

Comparing Wilson and white misses the big picture in my mind when the AFC currently has 

Mahomie 

Burrow

Herbert

Allen

Jackson

Tua

and don’t look now but Lawrence is coming on  

Hell even Carr and Tanhehill are big advantages on our guys  

Mills, Ryan, Russ, Jones aren’t lightning it up but they are at least level with our guys or slightly better  

Kenny Pickett is the only QB in the conference where the jets go into the game with the better QB, and yes that includes MW

 

the jets qb position is f#@#ed. they have 

a backup

a project

a retiree

a practice squad player

this " my sh*tty qb is better than your sh*tty qb" argument is truly jet esque

 

[Greg555]

Who will adapt better to the weather?  Wilson or Lawrence?

 

[SickJetFan]

6 minutes ago, ylekram said:

the jets qb position is f#@#ed. they have 

a backup

a project

a retiree

a practice squad player

this " my sh*tty qb is better than your sh*tty qb" argument is truly jet esque

 

but but ohhh fudge

[DireJet]

3 minutes ago, Greg555 said:

Who will adapt better to the weather?  Wilson or Lawrence?

 

Well, the Great Salt Lake is running out of water, so often how does it even rain out there? TLaw has played his entire life in the humid south. There are prob definite stats on this somewhere. Check betting sites. They have the most comprehensive info. 

[dcJet]

49 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

TD pass / turnover:

Davis Mills: .906

Mac Jones: .878

Trevor Lawrence: .857

Mike White: .727

Zach Wilson: .652

Justin Fields: .468

 

QB winning %

Mac Jones: .536

Zach Wilson .381

Mike White: .333

Trevor Lawrence: .290

Justin Fields: .217

Davis Mills: .143

Zach vs Sanchez.

Mark had an amazing 141 turnovers in 79 games.  He might be the all time NFL career turnover leader per game.  I had no luck looking that up. Vinnie's up there too.  Zach is more like league average 23 in 21 games.

Completion percentage both are highly inacurate at 56% ish.  Interestingly,  Zach can't throw over the middle, whereas over the middle, was the only place Sanchez could throw. 

Both panic when pressured.  Neither can throw a screen pass. Both had WR teammates that hated them.

Sack percentage Mark around league average 6.8.  Zach is 9.5% .  Zach has a way worst OL.

Both can win a well-managed game when their team takes the lead and runs the ball.  Both burst into flames and turn early deficits into blowouts.

Both are good with the ladies.

[VJphillyfan]

58 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Wilson does a lot of things wrong no doubt about it and not enough things right but one thing he does that is very right is not turn the ball over relative to others of his ilk.

Turnovers per game ratio (fumbles + ints / games)

Justin Fields 1.88 (27 fumbles)

Mike White 1.57 (1 fumble)

Trevor Lawrence 1.35 (18 fumbles)

Davis Mills 1.28 (10 fumbles)

Mac Jones 1.18 (12 fumbles)

Zach Wilson 1.10 (6 fumbles)

It was a lousy qb class with the exception of Lawrence who just figured it out within the last few weeks

[varjet]

7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The guy you want to look at in reality is Fields, the guy everyone just loves these days because hes running for 100 yards a game.  He also turns it over at a ghastly rate, doesn't throw that many tds and get sacked an unholy amount of time and his win % is bad.

Unless Wilson racks up three wins in the next three games he is at best going to be competing with White to start next year, he has not progressed enough at the things you need from your QB.

The stats stand though, he does not turn it over relative to some of his peers.  (especially fumbles)

I don't think anyone here who understands the game and Saleh really wanted Fields.  I also wonder whether Fields is equal to Vick/Lamar Jackson such that they should have created a whole different offense for him.  

I had envisioned Zach to be more of poor man's Aaron Rodgers, rather than a rich man's Jimmy G.  It does not appear to me that MLF created an offense that looks like his brother's GB offense.  I think the Jets would rather pay Jimmy G.  That will cost around $50mm including the extra OL they will need to sign.  

[TuscanyTile2]

5 hours ago, hotrodcharlie said:

Speaking of time management, Wilson's comments after the game last week about the time management were pretty shocking.

They asked him about that last drive and he passed the buck basically saying he doesn't think about that and that is a coaches decision. You just gotta be better than that.

He has the lowest football IQ of any QB we've had as a starter here since young Geno Smith

Are you saying he should've called TO on his own?  That I don't agree with.  I do put the blame on Saleh for the time management in the end there.  ZW actually did make a great play to at least give Gregatron a chance (though a 58 yarder is a very tough kick so no complaints about GZ).

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, varjet said:

I don't think anyone here who understands the game and Saleh really wanted Fields.  I also wonder whether Fields is equal to Vick/Lamar Jackson such that they should have created a whole different offense for him.  

I had envisioned Zach to be more of poor man's Aaron Rodgers, rather than a rich man's Jimmy G.  It does not appear to me that MLF created an offense that looks like his brother's GB offense.  I think the Jets would rather pay Jimmy G.  That will cost around $50mm including the extra OL they will need to sign.  

ZW is a "rich man's Jimmy G"?  I don't see that at all.  

[Darnold's Forehead]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Wilson does a lot of things wrong no doubt about it and not enough things right but one thing he does that is very right is not turn the ball over relative to others of his ilk.

Turnovers per game ratio (fumbles + ints / games)

Justin Fields 1.88 (27 fumbles)

Mike White 1.57 (1 fumble)

Trevor Lawrence 1.35 (18 fumbles)

Davis Mills 1.28 (10 fumbles)

Mac Jones 1.18 (12 fumbles)

Zach Wilson 1.10 (6 fumbles)

Low turnovers really mean nothing when you contribute nothing else to the offense as a QB.  Zach had no turnovers his second NE game this year and that fact should not be celebrated.  Sure he doesn't have Sanchez levels of turnovers but at least Sanchez could move the ball.  It's about offsetting the damage caused by the turnovers, which Zach cannot do.

It's a moot point imo.  I would guarantee that if Zach could play QB properly, hit his receivers and thus throw more each game (and by default take more risks/attempt more challenging throws), his turnovers would go up.

[Jetsplayer21]

55 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Ok you were able to read his eyes from the video and know exactly what happened - got it. 

Wow you are in severe denial, because no one can be this ignorant lol. He looked left, followed the receiver ENTIRE time. Now we know this is way above what zach is capable of doing, but if he were to do this and look elsewhere like a real nfl qb, it would have been smart. But clearly it’s not smart to draw the safety who is reading your eyes exactly where you are throwing. More than 1 were in position to make that easy interception thanks to Zach letting them all know where he was slowly going to throw the ball lol 

[56mehl56]

33 minutes ago, DireJet said:

Well, the Great Salt Lake is running out of water, so often how does it even rain out there? TLaw has played his entire life in the humid south. There are prob definite stats on this somewhere. Check betting sites. They have the most comprehensive info. 

Yeah but when his hair gets wet it slows him down , must add about 10 lbs of weight . ?

[56mehl56]

30 minutes ago, VJphillyfan said:

It was a lousy qb class with the exception of Lawrence who just figured it out within the last few weeks

Wait so the #1 overall pick just figured it out midway through his 2nd season , but there's no chance for the #2 overall pick to do likewise. 

[56mehl56]

11 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Wow you are in severe denial, because no one can be this ignorant lol. He looked left, followed the receiver ENTIRE time. Now we know this is way above what zach is capable of doing, but if he were to do this and look elsewhere like a real nfl qb, it would have been smart. But clearly it’s not smart to draw the safety who is reading your eyes exactly where you are throwing. More than 1 were in position to make that easy interception thanks to Zach letting them all know where he was slowly going to throw the ball lol 

I was never in denial , I said upfront bad read, horrible throw . Its you who wants to expound about it like some Monday morning analyst and prove your point.  Just say what you really want , Zach sucks and you hate him, its ok everyone else does it. 

[hotrodcharlie]

26 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Are you saying he should've called TO on his own?  That I don't agree with.  I do put the blame on Saleh for the time management in the end there.  ZW actually did make a great play to at least give Gregatron a chance (though a 58 yarder is a very tough kick so no complaints about GZ).

At the very least he shoulda been aware of the time. I think Tom Brady would've called a time out there, maybe even Joe Flacco or Mike White, yes, but if you dont want to kill him for passing the buck there that's fine. But damn, as an NFL QB to stand up there and avoid any time management responsibilities like that its very concerning