Simms and Florio: Jets keeping Zach because they are afraid some other team will develop them and they will look bad

[hawk]

It's sad when a person is paid to put drivel out there that is worst than half the takes on this forum.

Keep in there guys, there is hope.  You know who you are, and if you don't know, go look in a mirror.

As for me, I'll heading to YouTube to create my new account.

 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

26 minutes ago, undertow said:

Florio hates Rodgers because he didn't get jabbed and Simms hates the Jets because his crush sucks....these guys are worthless and I wouldn't trust a thing they say.

Theres little better than people still hanging on to the idea that the jab was ever anything other than a complete and utter disaster

[Jetsplayer21]

2 hours ago, TeachMeHowtoDouglas said:

Pretty big indictment on Saleh here. They think the boy can play and has talent. Issue is more the Jets and Saleh being incompetent. 
 

I was watching the Netflix movie with Kevin James as Sean Payton yesterday and kind of agree. Saleh is not qualified to coach an NFL QB. 

Zach should have been a 4th round draft pick. But in league starving from qbs and a very weak class following Lawrence he was picked way higher due to desperate gm. You can’t teach or “ develop “ a qb to have “ balls “ or get a focused attitude. I doubt Zach will ever grow into a man, but there is no rush to dump him yet.

 

 

[Tooooon]

This thread is donkey dick 

[Mogglez]

2 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Is there something he’s been wrong about?  

Zach Wilson, for one.

[David Harris]

This is actually infuriating. The Jets gave Zach every opportunity. They supported him everywhere they could nobody left this kid high and dry.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Cosell loves this guy.  The anti-ZW.

Not elite arm talent but legit toughness and competitive fire.

Fresno state.  Trade ZW.  Sign Carr, re-sign MW, draft this kid day 3. 

 

 

 

[rldev]

3 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Zach should have been a 4th round draft pick. But in league starving from qbs and a very weak class following Lawrence he was picked way higher due to desperate gm. You can’t teach or “ develop “ a qb to have “ balls “ or get a focused attitude. I doubt Zach will ever grow into a man, but there is no rush to dump him yet.

 

 

Complete nonsense. Zach was the consensus number 2 amongst professionals.

[Jetsplayer21]

50 minutes ago, rldev said:

Complete nonsense. Zach was the consensus number 2 amongst professionals.

Lol, among all idiots you mean. Clearly they can’t admit how wrong they were

[FidelioJet]

10 hours ago, The Crusher said:

I’d like to see him go to San Fran and be put  in their plug and play offense. To see how he would do as compared to Mr. Irrelevant. Be very interesting, 

 

He would be fine with that running game - just like he was 5-0 before we lost our entire OL and RB's.

With that said, to start his career, if you were going to start someone that raw, you need to build your offense around him - not force him into a timing system that he was not yet equipped to handle.

Do you think Lamar Jackson does well his first couple of years if Mike LaFleur and Robert Saleh took a such a dogmatic with their WC system?  Zach needed a flexible and creative OC willing to work with his skill-set and limitations as he grew.  

This was as much on the coaching as it is him.  I wouldn't be surprised at all if he want to Sean Payton and thrived.

 

[JiFtheOracle]

7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

 

He would be fine with that running game - just like he was 5-0 before we lost our entire OL and RB's.

With that said, to start his career, if you were going to start someone that raw, you need to build your offense around him - not force him into a timing system that he was not yet equipped to handle.

Do you think Lamar Jackson does well his first couple of years if Mike LaFleur and Robert Saleh took a such a dogmatic with their WC system?  Zach needed a flexible and creative OC willing to work with his skill-set and limitations as he grew.  

This was as much on the coaching as it is him.  I wouldn't be surprised at all if he want to Sean Payton and thrived.

 

Lamar Jackson went 6-1 as a rookie w/ Marty Mornhinweg as his OC handing off to Gus Edwards and Alex Collins w/ his #1 targe being Willie Snead.

[JiFtheOracle]

If the Wilson family isnt paying Chris Simms, then sex has to be involved.  Nothing else can explain the utter nonsense he's been spewing about this kid since predraft when he was really QB1, better than Lawrence and destined to be the next Pat Mahomes.

[Biggs]

Agree Saleh is incompetent.  That doesn't prove correlation to Zach sucking.  Both can be true independently.  If the Jets are really afraid of this why is Saleh still on staff?

That's rhetorical.  I think Simms is making it up.  If he isn't the Jets have huge problems beyond Zach sucking. 

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

Lamar Jackson went 6-1 as a rookie w/ Marty Mornhinweg as his OC handing off to Gus Edwards and Alex Collins w/ his #1 targe being Willie Snead.

Exactly.  They built an offense around him - that worked with his skill set.  They didn't tell him NOT to run or force him into a passing system he wasn't yet equipped to handle.  Had he came to Robert Saleh with his SF East nonsense he would have failed miserably.

[TuscanyTile2]

10 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Lol.  I believe in Zach but I know there isn’t much company in the position.  

Fwiw, while I'm not optimistic in the least, I haven't given up on him.  I did see one positive stat about him this offseason.  Something about completion percentage when throwing to a tightly covered WR (I think defined as the defender being within 1 yard of the WR).  He was like #15 in the NFL (something like that) and he was above some bigger names, IIRC.  I never would've expected that.  That's at least something to give us hope.

[JiFtheOracle]

11 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Exactly.  They built an offense around him - that worked with his skill set.  They didn't tell him NOT to run or force him into a passing system he wasn't yet equipped to handle.  Had he came to Robert Saleh with his SF East nonsense he would have failed miserably.

Ummm, no, they fired Mornhinweg and hired Greg Roman and then, created that silly stupid system that they ran w/ him.  The point is, great players rise above coaching, busts dont. 

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, JiF4Lamar said:

Ummm, no, they fired Mornhinweg and hired Greg Roman and then, created that silly stupid system that they ran w/ him.  The point is, great players rise above coaching, busts dont. 

The offense was completely adapted to him from the start.  To be clear Zach was 5-0 as a starter this year to start the season.  Does that mean he was a great player that rose?  

I'm sure if you go watch the games his production didn't come from passing the ball.  The Jets literally told Zach NOT to run - they never had him doing bootlegs.  Saleh is a mess of a coach.

Look, if you want to say Jackson would have thrived in a dogmatic WC system fine, I don't agree in the least.  That's all.

[JiFtheOracle]

9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

The offense was completely adapted to him from the start.  To be clear Zach was 5-0 as a starter this year to start the season.  Does that mean he was a great player that rose?  

I'm sure if you go watch the games his production didn't come from passing the ball.  The Jets literally told Zach NOT to run - they never had him doing bootlegs.  Saleh is a mess of a coach.

Look, if you want to say Jackson would have thrived in a dogmatic WC system fine, I don't agree in the least.  That's all.

No, it wasnt.  The offense was led by Joe Flacco who went 4-5 and was benched for Lamar who went 6-1 and then they fired the OC, his rookie year.

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, JiF4Lamar said:

No, it wasnt.  The offense was led by Joe Flacco who went 4-5 and was benched for Lamar who went 6-1 and then they fired the OC, his rookie year.

Offense was 1-2 with Flacco then went 5-0 with Zach Wilson.

Again, you want to say Lamar Jackson would thrive in a tradition WC offense - fine.  I'm not going to argue with you.  We just see things too differently.  

[JiFtheOracle]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

Offense was 1-2 with Flacco then went 5-0 with Zach Wilson.

Again, you want to say Lamar Jackson would thrive in a tradition WC offense - fine.  I'm not going to argue with you.  We just see things too differently.  

You referenced the first couple of years, I gave you his rookie season record.  He's 45-16 all together. What was Zach record?   I mean...wtf

[Biggs]

20 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

The offense was completely adapted to him from the start.  To be clear Zach was 5-0 as a starter this year to start the season.  Does that mean he was a great player that rose?  

I'm sure if you go watch the games his production didn't come from passing the ball.  The Jets literally told Zach NOT to run - they never had him doing bootlegs.  Saleh is a mess of a coach.

Look, if you want to say Jackson would have thrived in a dogmatic WC system fine, I don't agree in the least.  That's all.

I was very high on Zach.  I've been very high on a lot of Jets draft busts.  I'm an easy sell.  

Lamar has something Zach doesn't have and it's not superior athletic ability, it's his brain is wired to deal with big fast NFL players bearing down on him from all directions.  He makes decisions that metriculates the team forward down the field under pressure.  It's not the system or the coaching, he's athletically smarter than Zach Wilson and processes at a much faster speed.  Yes he is more physically talented.  He's also a much faster processor.  

[FidelioJet]

10 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I was very high on Zach.  I've been very high on a lot of Jets draft busts.  I'm an easy sell.  

Lamar has something Zach doesn't have and it's not superior athletic ability, it's his brain is wired to deal with big fast NFL players bearing down on him from all directions.  He makes decisions that metriculates the team forward down the field under pressure.  It's not the system or the coaching, he's athletically smarter than Zach Wilson and processes at a much faster speed.  Yes he is more physically talented.  He's also a much faster processor.  

I do understand your point and really not trying to compare Zach to Jackson - The point I was trying to make was simply had Lamar Jackson been placed in the same situation as Zach and forced into this dogmatic WC approach - with little flexibility to adhere to a natural skill-set Jackson would have failed here - I will agree that he wouldn't have flopped nearly as bad as Zach, but a failure none-the-less.

There's a reason Balt still doesn't want to pay Jackson - and it's because, five years into his career, he's still not a particularly good pocket passer.  Had he been forced to solely be a pocket passer in his rookie year - I have little doubt he would have failed.

Only thing I'm saying is this coaching staff did Zach no favors.  Things may have been different had they understood his limitations and worked around them while focusing the offense on his positive traits.

It's fine if you don't agree.  Not way to prove it either way.

[Biggs]

5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I do understand your point and really not trying to compare Zach to Jackson - The point I was trying to make was simply had Lamar Jackson been placed in the same situation as Zach and forced into this dogmatic WC approach - with little flexibility to adhere to a natural skill-set Jackson would have failed here - I will agree that he wouldn't have flopped nearly as bad as Zach, but a failure none-the-less.

There's a reason Balt still doesn't want to pay Jackson - and it's because, five years into his career, he's still not a particularly good pocket passer.  Had he been forced to solely be a pocket passer in his rookie year - I have little doubt he would have failed.

Only thing I'm saying is this coaching staff did Zach no favors.  Things may have been different had they understood his limitations and worked around them while focusing the offense on his positive traits.

It's fine if you don't agree.  Not way to prove it either way.

We don't know that Baltimore doesn't want to pay him.  It's a matter of how much.  Baltimore may actually love him and want him very badly?

The Ravens have an advantage over the Jets.  Organizationally they have had a lot of success and may have more confidence in their desciplined approach to the roster and their ability to move on if they can't strike a reasonable deal.  They should feel that way.  They have a track record.

The question with Lamar for both the Jets and Baltimore isn't how good.  He's the best option for both teams, it's how much.  

[fltflo]

I just don’t understand so many of us wanting to blame a system that Mike White flourished in. Wilson is not going to be another Brett Favre traded away to become a Hall of fame player.
In his second year he was still unable to implement, basic quarterback, moves, such as learning to step up in the pocket, instead of constantly falling back under pressure. Face it folks, Zach was over drafted. He has all the physical tools to excel, the one critical tool, he does not have to succeed is the one between his ears.


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[Jet Nut]

“I hope that’s not the explanation” isn’t the same as the “Jets Jets keeping Zach because they are afraid some other team will develop them and they will look bad”

 

[Ron Rico]

12 minutes ago, fltflo said:

I just don’t understand so many of us wanting to blame a system that Mike White flourished in. 
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That ship has already sailed. The future will tell us who was right and who was wrong (Zach or MLF) or maybe they both stink at their job. 

[LIJetsFan]

I'm really tired of Simms.  It won't happen but I just wish folks here would stop posting his stuff.  He's no better than that former Jets scout dude.  I'd rather be entertained by Greenbean than read/listen to Simms.   

[Ron Rico]

26 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

I'm really tired of Simms.  I won't happen but I just wish folks here would stop posting his stuff.  He's no better than that former Jets scout dude.  I'd rather be entertained by Greenbean than read/listen to Simms.   

At this point, Simms has to be just trolling.

[Dunnie]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Exactly.  They built an offense around him - that worked with his skill set.  They didn't tell him NOT to run or force him into a passing system he wasn't yet equipped to handle.  Had he came to Robert Saleh with his SF East nonsense he would have failed miserably.

i think the answer lies somewhere in the middle , I think the wheels are about to come off Lamar. Depends on if the OC continues to let him freestyle in the RPO or he actually turns into a pocket passer I have heard myths about.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Dunnie

[k-met57]

i am just curious why we need an entire thread on mike florio having an opinion? is that the byproduct of the offseason?

also what he said was .... "i just hope the truth isn't...." so the title sucks too.

finally....

Florio needs to get a grip. The notion that not trading Wilson for his own good reflects badly on the jets is stupid....why would they cut bait on an asset without any compensation? this isn't a charity.

[Matt39]

Wilson’s development is on him at this point. He’s coasted so far and it caught up

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Everything the Jets do at QB is the opposite of what they should be doing.

It's MW they should be trying to keep for this reason, not ZW.

Behind an OL that can protect him, MW with McVay or Shanahan easily throws for 4K and wins a lot of games.

[56mehl56]

6 hours ago, JiF4Lamar said:

Ummm, no, they fired Mornhinweg and hired Greg Roman and then, created that silly stupid system that they ran w/ him.  The point is, great players rise above coaching, busts dont. 

I agree with that in general. But on the flipside poor coaching especially for a rookie QB can be a major stumbling block. 

[56mehl56]

4 hours ago, fltflo said:

I just don’t understand so many of us wanting to blame a system that Mike White flourished in. Wilson is not going to be another Brett Favre traded away to become a Hall of fame player.
In his second year he was still unable to implement, basic quarterback, moves, such as learning to step up in the pocket, instead of constantly falling back under pressure. Face it folks, Zach was over drafted. He has all the physical tools to excel, the one critical tool, he does not have to succeed is the one between his ears.


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2 games(Cin/Chi) is flourishing , what about the others ? 

[56mehl56]

4 hours ago, k-met57 said:

i am just curious why we need an entire thread on mike florio having an opinion? is that the byproduct of the offseason?

also what he said was .... "i just hope the truth isn't...." so the title sucks too.

finally....

Florio needs to get a grip. The notion that not trading Wilson for his own good reflects badly on the jets is stupid....why would they cut bait on an asset without any compensation? this isn't a charity.

Why not we have entire threads on if Aaron Rodgers farted today.