Lamar Jackson Requests Trade

[Scott Dierking]

50 minutes ago, slats said:

I think it’s pretty safe to say that the asks are too high at this point. No team wants to give up their first round pick this year for him. Many of those QB needy teams would rather try to find their own FQB thru the draft and pay him a total of $42M over four years as opposed to $200M over that same period of time. And save next year’s #1 in the process. 
 
The conversations will continue, but I think the market doesn’t change until after the draft. One of those QB needy teams maybe misses on the QB they wanted, drafts a stud Edge (or something) instead, then considers putting together a package involving the following two years’ #1s. In the meantime hoping that the wait leads to Jackson either putting a management team in place for himself, or makes it be known that he’s willing to negotiate off of his alleged demands. Of course, even that path deals with the likelihood that Baltimore will want to match, especially when they’re getting nothing at all for him this year. 

The die is cast already. All discussion about him being able to talk with teams had the ship sail several weeks ago.

[Warfish]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

NFL teams talk to free agents all the time. LOL 

NFL teams choose not to talk to free agents all the time too. 

Especially those under the nonexclusive franchise tag.

 

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Why not?  Are you colluding against him too?  Lol.

Your hippie logic does not work here. My belief before the offseason struck was that Aaron Rodgers would be the best fit for the Jets in their immediate future. 

As I recall, your prediction was that JD loved Zach Wilson and your prediction was that Zach Wislon would be the Jets QB in '23. So there is that to chew on.

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

NFL teams choose not to talk to free agents all the time too. 

Especially those under the nonexclusive franchise tag.

 

Name the last high profile NFL qb in his prime that was a free agent that had ZERO teams talk with him.

[Warfish]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

Your hippie logic does not work here. My belief before the offseason struck was that Aaron Rodgers would be the best fit for the Jets in their immediate future. 

It must take amazing pretzel logic to yourself not want Lamar, but think the only reason an NFL GM might not want him is collusion, lol.

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

As I recall, your prediction was that JD loved Zach Wilson and your prediction was that Zach Wislon would be the Jets QB in '23. So there is that to chew on.

We don't have Rodgers yet, lol.

JD clearly still likes/believes in Wilson.  Trying for Rodgers buys not just JD time, but Wilson time too.

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

It must take amazing pretzel logic to yourself not want Lamar, but think the only reason an NFL GM might not want him is collusion, lol.

We don't have Rodgers yet, lol.

JD clearly still likes/believes in Wilson.  Trying for Rodgers buys not just JD time, but Wilson time too.

I have not been speaking as a Jet fan here. I am commenting on the league as a whole. And, as I have said many times , it just opinion and observation. I have not said this IS happening, but that it has the earmarks of being called that. No definitives and gyrations, as some <ahem> are cornering themselves with.

[Warfish]

6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Name the last high profile NFL qb in his prime that was a free agent that had ZERO teams talk with him.

Who was the last "NFL qb in his prime" in this situation?  Rarely by my memory are "NFL qb in his prime" in this situation.  And each situation is different as to the specifics.

But I'll admit my ignorance or memory fail here, who WAS the last "NFL qb in his prime" known mostly for his running skills, with his injury history, who was under the nonexclusive franchise tag, where his team could match any offer, where he was demanding a 5 year, $250M fully guaranteed contract and was not represented by an agent?

[jetblue95]

21 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Fans don't make offers.

fans also don't meet with players and discuss contracts, but that doesn't stop you from suggesting something nefarious is going on because no team has brought in lamar

[jetblue95]

15 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

NFL teams talk to free agents all the time. LOL 

unrestricted free agents - sure

QBs tagged with the non-exclusive franchise tag - very limited examples - steve young and jim harbaugh (stayed with their teams), drew brees (traded to the saints after the chargers drafted philip rivers), matt cassel (traded to the chiefs as the patriots had this guy named tom brady in front of him), and kirk cousins (stayed with wash that year, was tagged again the next year and stayed, and then the following year left to minny)

so no, not all the time...

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-qb-franchise-tag-non-exclusive-lamar-jackson-drew-brees-kirk-cousins/h7ab1fw5oees2by0nbuxaawa

 

[Scott Dierking]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Who was the last "NFL qb in his prime" in this situation?  Rarely by my memory are "NFL qb in his prime" in this situation.  And each situation is different as to the specifics.

But I'll admit my ignorance or memory fail here, who WAS the last "NFL qb in his prime" known mostly for his running skills, with his injury history, who was under the nonexclusive franchise tag, where his team could match any offer, where he was demanding a 5 year, $250M fully guaranteed contract and was not represented by an agent?

There have been 5 of them:

-Steve Young  49ers 1993

-Jim Harbaugh Colts 1996

-Drew Brees Chargers 2005

-Matt Cassel, Patriots 2009

-Kirk Cousins, 2016 Redskins

5 of those qb's remained with their teams (I do not have info how many interviews they went on). One was traded (Cassel). 

It is a ridiculous premise to equate the dollar amounts of contracts of prior years based upon the tremendous inflation of salaries in the NFL.

[jetblue95]

19 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Name the last high profile NFL qb in his prime that was a free agent that had ZERO teams talk with him.

 

you do understand lamar is NOT a free agent

free agent means that you don't forfeit two 1st round picks and free agent means that his existing team can't match the contract you offer

[AFJF]

2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Inquiring Minds: Why does a 26 year old former MVP not even get an invite to an interview to just sit down and talk by any club?

A few reasons.

1) They know that the team who drafted him offered him over $44 million per year guaranteed.  If that wasn't enough to get him to sign, they're likely looking at close to $50 million per year plus multiple first-round draft picks.  If an organization as respected as the Ravens, the team that drafted (and clearly loves) him won't give him what he's asking, why should another team go that high while paying 2 1's for the privilege?

2)  They know he's looking for all of his money to be guaranteed despite the fact that he has taken over 1,000 hits while missing 11 of his last 25 NFL games.  There was once a time (roughly 8 weeks ago) when fans understood that durability matters.  This no longer seems to be the case for some reason.

3) As mentioned above, the Ravens love Lamar.  That's why they offered him $44 mil gtd.  Teams know this.  Harbaugh said publicly that he is 200% sure Lamar will be back with the team next year.  Even as a fan who is just an outsider, I've said before that Lamar is a pipe dream because Baltimore will absolutely match any offer another team comes up with.  

The fact that Baltimore hasn't had to match any offers should come as no surprise because of what I said in reason number 1.  Nobody is going to give up 2 1's to pay a guy upwards of $50 mil per year gtd, even if we joined the legions of fans who no longer think durability matters.

I've seen people both on here and twitter say "Oh, I bet Burrow gets his money even though he's had durability issues".  This is not apples to apples.  Teams are likely to be more forgiving of injuries if you can string together multiple seasons injury free.  Burrow has played in 32 of his last 34 games.  Lamar has missed 10 full games and one in which he left after 4 plays in his last 25.  



 

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, jetblue95 said:

unrestricted free agents - sure

QBs tagged with the non-exclusive franchise tag - very limited examples - steve young and jim harbaugh (stayed with their teams), drew brees (traded to the saints after the chargers drafted philip rivers), matt cassel (traded to the chiefs as the patriots had this guy named tom brady in front of him), and kirk cousins (stayed with wash that year, was tagged again the next year and stayed, and then the following year left to minny)

so no, not all the time...

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-qb-franchise-tag-non-exclusive-lamar-jackson-drew-brees-kirk-cousins/h7ab1fw5oees2by0nbuxaawa

 

The bigger question is, did any teams talk with those qbs, during their free agent process. I could not find data on that.

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, jetblue95 said:

 

you do understand lamar is NOT a free agent

free agent means that you don't forfeit two 1st round picks and free agent means that his existing team can't match the contract you offer

By "free" agent, I am more referring being given permission to speak with other clubs. That is the issue here.

[jetblue95]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

By "free" agent, I am more referring being given permission to speak with other clubs. That is the issue here.

 

yes, he is free to speak to other teams

but the other teams know the conditionality of such "freedom"  they know baltimore can match any contract he agrees to, they know they have to forfeit two 1st rounders, and they know all the other factors that have been posted here repeatedly by numerous posters including his injury history, guaranteed contract demands, and declining level of play since his MVP season.

you are the one the said nfl teams talk to free agents all the time.  that is irrelevant in the case of jackson given he is not a free agent even if he is "free" to talk to other teams

[bicketybam]

Name the last high profile NFL qb in his prime that was a free agent that had ZERO teams talk with him.

That was tagged and was demanding a contract the likes of Watson's?

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, slimjasi said:

It’s debatable whether the risk is worth it, but Lamar’s perception gets hurt by his play style and the large number of rushing attempts. 
 

If the Rodgers deal fell through and it didn’t cost two first round picks to get the ball rolling, I’d still be all in on Lamar. 
 

Well, yeah, that's why were discussing it and I'm simply battling some of what I believe is narrative and nonsense ie: his play style, cant pass, bad teammate etc. .  

Again, the only reason I'm even discussing this and I'm defending Jackson vs. the board is because this actually is possible and I think some of the takes against him are absurd.  I dont care about Jackson, I'm not a Jackson fan.  I legit dont think I've ever discussed him on this site whereas everyone knows I loved Fields and Watson prior to him being exposed as a creep and before them?  I was Rodgers biggest fanboi and argued he's the best I've ever seen till Mahomes emerged. 

All that said, I know the Jets are all in on Rodgers and I'm fine w/ it but my preference would be Jackson because I want a long term solution, not a 1 year band aid hoping to hit lightening in the bottle.  And again, I was the guy 2 years ago who started a thread about building a team that would attract Rodgers, I just never thought we'd have this type of choice.

[jetblue95]

9 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

The bigger question is, did any teams talk with those qbs, during their free agent process. I could not find data on that.

i don't know for sure, but reading the link i provided, it seems like young and harbaugh never looked elsewhere and the tag was more a placeholder until a contract extension could be finalized.  brees and cassel both were traded, so assumedly they talked with at a minimum the teams that acquired them (i believe the dolphins also talked to brees).  but those were very different situations in that the chargers just drafted/acquired rivers and the pats had brady.  not sure if cousins ever met with teams

it should be added that none of these guys were looking for the largest, fully guaranteed contract in league history

[Scott Dierking]

6 minutes ago, AFJF said:

A few reasons.

1) They know that the team who drafted him offered him over $44 million per year guaranteed.  If that wasn't enough to get him to sign, they're likely looking at close to $50 million per year plus multiple first-round draft picks.  If an organization as respected as the Ravens, the team that drafted (and clearly loves) him won't give him what he's asking, why should another team go that high while paying 2 1's for the privilege?

2)  They know he's looking for all of his money to be guaranteed despite the fact that he has taken over 1,000 hits while missing 11 of his last 25 NFL games.  There was once a time (roughly 8 weeks ago) when fans understood that durability matters.  This no longer seems to be the case for some reason.

3) As mentioned above, the Ravens love Lamar.  That's why they offered him $44 mil gtd.  Teams know this.  Harbaugh said publicly that he is 200% sure Lamar will be back with the team next year.  Even as a fan who is just an outsider, I've said before that Lamar is a pipe dream because Baltimore will absolutely match any offer another team comes up with.  

The fact that Baltimore hasn't had to match any offers should come as no surprise because of what I said in reason number 1.  Nobody is going to give up 2 1's to pay a guy upwards of $50 mil per year gtd, even if we joined the legions of fans who no longer think durability matters.

I've seen people both on here and twitter say "Oh, I bet Burrow gets his money even though he's had durability issues".  This is not apples to apples.  Teams are likely to be more forgiving of injuries if you can string together multiple seasons injury free.  Burrow has played in 32 of his last 34 games.  Lamar has missed 10 full games and one in which he left after 4 plays in his last 25.  



 

If I were an NFL owner, acting in my team's best interests alone, I would demand that my GM at least talk to a player that may, again may make my team better. That is the charge that I have entrusted him with.  It costs nothing to talk. No promise of a deal being brokered. It is called due diligence. Al Davis would do that.

The NFL in total just appears a bit uppity about the Watson contract in general, about QB guaranteed contracts becoming a norm and about a player promoting himself without an agent. Because we all know, the league and teams have ties with these agents, and they both leach off each other. Can't have norms being broken.

Just appears all a little too convenient for my uninformed (example-i do not post on Twitter) bones. I have seen labor and management issues before, and this how they typically slide into a point of nonalignment. 

[Scott Dierking]

6 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

34 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Name the last high profile NFL qb in his prime that was a free agent that had ZERO teams talk with him.

That was tagged and was demanding a contract the likes of Watson's?

It is called a negotiation. I, as an employee can make any demand of a salary, just to see if I get a nibble on that. No one is beholden to honor that demand.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

You fall back on this any time you get a question or comment you can't or won't answer "whoah, I'm not the GM, I don't have to figure out how to make my unrealistic collusion-conspiracy fantasy demand happen or answer how it could happen, I'm just a FAN". 

Generally, we do generally like to have exchanges here with some basis in reality.  Some of us, at least.  At least you didn't pull out the "I'm just asking questions" trope, I suppose.

You're right tho, you're just a fan, and Lamar to the Jets clearly isn't happening, so you're just screaming at the sky at this point.  

I've said, I'd give him whatever he wants.  How much more clear do I need to be?  Figure it the F out.  Give him 200 mil guaranteed, space it out over a decade for all I care.  I'm not dodging anything.  I'd do whatever it takes if I were a billionaire owner of a Football team who has the most losses in the AFC since the merger and has not had a QB since that time as well.   

And who's the bigger looney tune here my old friend?  The guy screaming at the sky?  Or the dude that continues to ask him why every time he does?  lmfao

 

[AFJF]

3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

If I were an NFL owner, acting in my team's best interests alone, I would demand that my GM at least talk to a player that may, again may make my team better. That is the charge that I have entrusted him with.  It costs nothing to talk. No promise of a deal being brokered. It is called due diligence. Al Davis would do that.

The NFL in total just appears a bit uppity about the Watson contract in general, about QB guaranteed contracts becoming a norm and about a player promoting himself without an agent. Because we all know, the league and teams have ties with these agents, and they both leach off each other. Can't have norms being broken.

Just appears all a little too convenient for my uninformed (example-i do not post on Twitter) bones. I have seen labor and management issues before, and this how they typically slide into a point of nonalignment. 

I suppose this all comes down to thoughts on durability.  As I've said before, I was 100% all in on pursuing LJ.  That was with knowledge of this year's injury.   Once I was reminded that he missed a big chunk of games last season, I arrived at the incredibly easy conclusion of "no way in hell I go after that guy".

Seems  many teams have also decided they would not like to guarantee hundreds of millions of dollars to an injury prone QB.

Maybe somebody comes out of the wood work and rolls the dice.  Maybe they win multiple rings.  But maybe he keeps getting hurt and they have what amounts to $50 million in dead cap for the next few years.

[IndianaJet]

 

 

lololololol

 

[bicketybam]

It is called a negotiation. I, as an employee can make any demand of a salary, just to see if I get a nibble on that. No one is beholden to honor that demand.

Lamar made a demand. No nibbles.

[bicketybam]

I've said, I'd give him whatever he wants.  How much more clear do I need to be?  Figure it the F out.  Give him 200 mil guaranteed, space it out over a decade for all I care.  I'm not dodging anything.  I'd do whatever it takes if I were a billionaire owner of a Football team who has the most losses in the AFC since the merger and has not had a QB since that time as well.   
And who's the bigger looney tune here my old friend?  The guy screaming at the sky?  Or the dude that continues to ask him why every time he does?  lmfao
 

This isn't Madden.

[jetblue95]

13 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

If I were an NFL owner, acting in my team's best interests alone, I would demand that my GM at least talk to a player that may, again may make my team better. That is the charge that I have entrusted him with.  It costs nothing to talk. No promise of a deal being brokered. It is called due diligence. Al Davis would do that.

 

 

and if i was a team owner, i'd ask my GM why he thinks it makes sense to offer the largest, fully-guaranteed contract and give away two 1st round picks for a player who has seen his on field performance decline and his missed games increase.

so maybe these conversations are happening behind the scenes and the owners are fully aware of why the GMs aren't talking with jackson.

btw - two of the owners of teams who ostensibly don't have a franchise QB have come out and made statements on why their teams aren't pursuing jackson

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/arthur-blank-explains-why-falcons-arent-pursuing-lamar-jackson-despite-going-after-deshaun-watson-a-year-ago/

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/03/28/colts-lamar-jackson-jim-irsay-compensation-major-issue-draft-picks-contract

 

 

 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

Well, yeah, that's why were discussing it and I'm simply battling some of what I believe is narrative and nonsense ie: his play style, cant pass, bad teammate etc. .  

Again, the only reason I'm even discussing this and I'm defending Jackson vs. the board is because this actually is possible and I think some of the takes against him are absurd.  I dont care about Jackson, I'm not a Jackson fan.  I legit dont think I've ever discussed him on this site whereas everyone knows I loved Fields and Watson prior to him being exposed as a creep and before them?  I was Rodgers biggest fanboi and argued he's the best I've ever seen.

All that said, I know the Jets are all in on Rodgers and I'm fine w/ it but my preference would be Jackson because I want a long term solution, not a 1 year band aid hoping to hit lightening in the bottle.  And again, I was the guy 2 years ago who started a thread about building a team that would attract Rodgers, I just never thought we'd have this type of choice.

Fair.

The only thing I would say is that his play style is a valid concern, even if you aren't particularly concerned, yourself. 

Consider that Lamar Jackson led the NFL in rushing attempts by a QB in each of 2018 (despite starting only 7 games!), 2019, and 2020. And, despite playing in only 12 games in 2021 and 2022, he was 2nd and 5th in rushing attempts by a QB in those two seasons, respectively. 

For his career, Lamar Jackson is 3rd all time in rushing attempts per game (10.39) for a QB. The only two guys he trails are Tuffy Leemans (played between 1936 and 1943 for the Giants) and Bill Shepherd (played between 1935 and 1940 for the Lions), who both played MUCH more Fullback/Halfback than actual modern day quarterback. For instance, Bill Shepherd never attempted more than 64 passes in a season and Tuffy Leemans never attempted more than 87. It was a different sport. 

So, it's entirely fair for people to worry about wear and tear on Lamar's body more so than for other QBs. When you then add to that the fact that he has been hurt in back to back playoff races, you understand why people are worried about his longevity. 

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, bicketybam said:

 

 

Lamar made a demand. No nibbles.

 

I can demand that my employee gives me a 20% raise during my review. I will probably not get a nibble. But, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Maybe we settle somewhere where it works best for both of us. 

[Larz]

Let’s not forget the QB is the face of the franchise and there was grumbling about how Lamar handled his knee injury at the end of the season. He didn’t travel with the team to Cincinnati. 
 

he obviously already has a long term contract, but mahomes running around on one leg contrasted pretty starkly with Jackson sitting home to protect his business when it should have been done a year earlier if he wasn’t stuck on a dick measuring contest with Watson 

[slimjasi]

12 minutes ago, IndianaJet said:

 

 

lololololol

 

ouch. 

The guy played 5 years there and won 2 rings. That's gotta hurt BB just a little bit. 

[Scott Dierking]

2 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

 

and if i was a team owner, i'd ask my GM why he thinks it makes sense to offer the largest, fully-guaranteed contract and give away two 1st round picks for a player who has seen his on field performance decline and his missed games increase.

so maybe these conversations are happening behind the scenes and the owners are fully aware of why the GMs aren't talking with jackson.

btw - two of the owners of teams who ostensibly don't have a franchise QB have come out and made statements on why their teams aren't pursuing jackson

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/arthur-blank-explains-why-falcons-arent-pursuing-lamar-jackson-despite-going-after-deshaun-watson-a-year-ago/

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/03/28/colts-lamar-jackson-jim-irsay-compensation-major-issue-draft-picks-contract

 

 

 

If I were to proffer additional support of maybe there is some form of collusion going on in this case, I would certainly trot out some old guard to say why they haven't engaged. Collusion 101. Baseball did that same dance many times. It created an irrevocable rift between player union and management. Never has been fixed.

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

I do find it pretty crazy that there is not 1 team interested in Lamar. Everyone talking about 2 1st round draft picks like no team would ever give up that much for a franchise qb……..

 

Seahawks traded 2 1st round picks and a 3rd for a safety. 

Rams traded 2 1sts and a 4th for jalen Ramsey

saints traded 8 draft picks including 2 1sts to move up 7 spots to draft a rb named Ricky Williams 

bears traded 2 1sts and more for Khalil Mack 

bucs traded 2 first round picks for Keyshawn Johnson 

browns traded 3 1st rd picks for Watson

broncos traded 2 1sts, 2 2nds and 3 players for russel Wilson. 

Rams traded 2 1sts a 3rd and Jared Goff for stafford.

Panthers just traded 2 1st, 2 2nds and dj moore for the chance to draft a qb who they hope will be as good as Lamar is.

 

but there’s not a single team interested in Lamar? even with missing some games due to injury its just strange. 

[chirorob]

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

It would make more sense for a team with a 1st round pick in the 20s to consider, but who among the playoff teams needs a new starting QB? 

Tampa (19) and MIN (23) seem like remote possibilities.  DAL at 26 if Jerry Jones wakes up on the wrong side of the bed.

 

Dallas can't they have Dak on a massive contract with 80+ million of guaranteed left.

Tampa has 75 million in dead cap space this year, they are going in on a full on rebuild, it doesn't really make sense for them.

 

[slimjasi]

4 minutes ago, Larz said:

Let’s not forget the QB is the face of the franchise and there was grumbling about how Lamar handled his knee injury at the end of the season. He didn’t travel with the team to Cincinnati. 
 

he obviously already has a long term contract, but mahomes running around on one leg contrasted pretty starkly with Jackson sitting home to protect his business when it should have been done a year earlier if he wasn’t stuck on a dick measuring contest with Watson 

I always give players the benefit of the doubt when they don't play due to injury and it sounded like he was legitimately hurt, but I thought it was strange to not go to the playoff game. FWIW, the coach did defend him pretty vociferously.  

[chirorob]

1 minute ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

I do find it pretty crazy that there is not 1 team interested in Lamar. Everyone talking about 2 1st round draft picks like no team would ever give up that much for a franchise qb……..

 

Seahawks traded 2 1st round picks and a 3rd for a safety. 

Rams traded 2 1sts and a 4th for jalen Ramsey

saints traded 8 draft picks including 2 1sts to move up 7 spots to draft a rb named Ricky Williams 

bears traded 2 1sts and more for Khalil Mack 

bucs traded 2 first round picks for Keyshawn Johnson 

browns traded 3 1st rd picks for Watson

broncos traded 2 1sts, 2 2nds and 3 players for russel Wilson. 

Rams traded 2 1sts a 3rd and Jared Goff for stafford.

Panthers just traded 2 1st, 2 2nds and dj moore for the chance to draft a qb who they hope will be as good as Lamar is.

but there’s not a single team interested in Lamar? even with missing some games due to injury its just strange. 

What's amazing, is almost every one of those deals worked out poorly for the team that gave up the draft picks.

The Rams Stafford deal worked because they had basically a 1 year window to win a SB, and they got it.  That being said, now they have him for a while, and he is damaged goods.