Lamar Jackson Requests Trade

[Ron Rico]

43 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

There have been 5 of them:

-Steve Young  49ers 1993

-Jim Harbaugh Colts 1996

-Drew Brees Chargers 2005

-Matt Cassel, Patriots 2009

-Kirk Cousins, 2016 Redskins

 

Who among your list didn't have an agent representing them?

[jetblue95]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

If I were to proffer additional support of maybe there is some form of collusion going on in this case, I would certainly trot out some old guard to say why they haven't engaged. Collusion 101. Baseball did that same dance many times. It created an irrevocable rift between player union and management. Never has been fixed.

i don't think these guys held a press conference to announce why they weren't pursuing jackson.

there was an owners meeting and the press was there and asked the questions.  they answered.  

it's interesting that the NFLPA has not seemed to be taking up jackson's cause.  i don't see any comments from union leaders asking why no one is talking with him.  you'd think if the union felt there was collusion against one of its members, they wouldn't be shy in publicly backing the player.

as far as i can tell, the only statement the NFLPA has made recently with respect to jackson is telling the teams not to negotiating with someone purporting to represent him (jackson denies this is the case).

[Scott Dierking]

2 minutes ago, Ron Rico said:

Who among your list didn't have an agent representing them?

That is a Lamar Jackson problem. Not a team problem. If I were a team, i would would be salivating at talking directly with a player, this supposed hayseed that is not smart enough to shelter himself from the barbs. 

[jetblue95]

13 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I can demand that my employee gives me a 20% raise during my review. I will probably not get a nibble. But, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Maybe we settle somewhere where it works best for both of us. 

 

lamar's current employer made what seems to be a very generous contract offer last year (reportedly more than kyler and russell wilson, but not watson-level).  lamar said no thanks.  the sides have had other talks.  no of us know what was offered/counter-offered.

what you posted above relates to your negotiation with your current employee.  not another firm.  unless you work in an industry where a prospective new employer would have to give up very valuable consideration to hire you away from your existing firm, and your existing firm has a contractual right to match any other offer you may receive, i think the analogy stops there.

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

6 minutes ago, chirorob said:

What's amazing, is almost every one of those deals worked out poorly for the team that gave up the draft picks.

The Rams Stafford deal worked because they had basically a 1 year window to win a SB, and they got it.  That being said, now they have him for a while, and he is damaged goods.

I mean I agree, but still surprising that Lamar is garnering 0 interest. You would think there would be atleast 1 team willing to give up 2 1sts and a contract to Lamar.

[Scott Dierking]

6 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

i don't think these guys held a press conference to announce why they weren't pursuing jackson.

there was an owners meeting and the press was there and asked the questions.  they answered.  

it's interesting that the NFLPA has not seemed to be taking up jackson's cause.  i don't see any comments from union leaders asking why no one is talking with him.  you'd think if the union felt there was collusion against one of its members, they wouldn't be shy in publicly backing the player.

as far as i can tell, the only statement the NFLPA has made recently with respect to jackson is telling the teams not to negotiating with someone purporting to represent him (jackson denies this is the case).

Comments are comments. These owners are smart and savvy enough (well, most of them) that what they say gets written, broadcast and published. 

[AFJF]

16 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

ouch. 

The guy played 5 years there and won 2 rings. That's gotta hurt BB just a little bit. 

BB has no feelings.  It's one of the things that makes him what he is.

[jetblue95]

3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Comments are comments. These owners are smart and savvy enough (well, most of them) that what they say gets written, broadcast and published. 

i didn't see smith's comments before

will be interesting to see how much the union backs him and whether they start throwing around the collusion term

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, jetblue95 said:

i didn't see smith's comments before

will be interesting to see how much the union backs him and whether they start throwing around the collusion term

And they hold only as much validity as owners saying they have "no interest because....". This knife cuts both ways. I just have seen this dance before. Same music.

[AFJF]

Just now, jetblue95 said:

i didn't see smith's comments before

will be interesting to see how much the union backs him and whether they start throwing around the collusion term

An easy response from any owner would be "In my (x number of years) as an owner, I've never seen a player who has missed this many games, demand anywhere close to this much guaranteed money, and I'm sure 31 other owners would agree.  Good business is not collusion.  It's just good business"

[Scott Dierking]

4 minutes ago, AFJF said:

An easy response from any owner would be "In my (x number of years) as an owner, I've never seen a player who has missed this many games, demand anywhere close to this much guaranteed money, and I'm sure 31 other owners would agree.  Good business is not collusion.  It's just good business"

Even better would be, "We evaluate every player that is on the market, and the contributions they may provide our team in aspiring to our goals. I will not comment on Jackson specifically, but I have empowered our staff do everything in meeting the goals I have just stated". 

Say something while saying nothing. Mentioning player specific seems so agenda driven. These deferrals of trusting the staff to do what is right for the team is something I wish Woody would grasp.

[AFJF]

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Even better would be, "We evaluate every player that is on the market, and the contributions they may provide our team in aspiring to our goals. I will not comment on Jackson specifically, but I have empowered our staff do everything in meeting the goals I have just stated". 

Say something while saying nothing. Mentioning player specific seems so agenda driven. These deferrals of trusting the staff to do what is right for the team is something I wish Woody would grasp.

Agreed, but I was wording it as a response to Smith's comments.  But I get what you're saying.

[JustInFudge]

35 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Fair.

The only thing I would say is that his play style is a valid concern, even if you aren't particularly concerned, yourself. 

Consider that Lamar Jackson led the NFL in rushing attempts by a QB in each of 2018 (despite starting only 7 games!), 2019, and 2020. And, despite playing in only 12 games in 2021 and 2022, he was 2nd and 5th in rushing attempts by a QB in those two seasons, respectively. 

For his career, Lamar Jackson is 3rd all time in rushing attempts per game (10.39) for a QB. The only two guys he trails are Tuffy Leemans (played between 1936 and 1943 for the Giants) and Bill Shepherd (played between 1935 and 1940 for the Lions), who both played MUCH more Fullback/Halfback than actual modern day quarterback. For instance, Bill Shepherd never attempted more than 64 passes in a season and Tuffy Leemans never attempted more than 87. It was a different sport. 

So, it's entirely fair for people to worry about wear and tear on Lamar's body more so than for other QBs. When you then add to that the fact that he has been hurt in back to back playoff races, you understand why people are worried about his longevity. 

Also fair but as I've mentioned before, I think he can play in a more open traditional NFL system and I think we a better team around him, he wont be asked to do everything.  The Ravens just jammed him into that system and did nothing to support him w/ weapons asking him to do everything.  And while he excelled and they won, it probably wasnt the best thing for him as a player.  That said because I think he's an underrated passer, I'd be transitioning him into someone who only uses his legs when necessary, maybe 2-3 designed runs a game.  Not too much different then what Saleh has said, play boring, we just need something special 2-3 times a game or whatever, etc.  

[bicketybam]

I can demand that my employee gives me a 20% raise during my review. I will probably not get a nibble. But, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Maybe we settle somewhere where it works best for both of us. 

It's on record that he already turned down a guaranteed deal so the new team a) might not want to offer anything better, not want to give up two first round picks or c) both.

If you think bringing him in and offering him less than what Baltimore did, then have at it. I call that wasting everyone's time.

[Ron Rico]

LJ has a history of using the race card. I think that's the issue, it's not collusion. 

 

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, jetblue95 said:

i didn't see smith's comments before

will be interesting to see how much the union backs him and whether they start throwing around the collusion term

Matt Ryan, former MVP, also available. 

[slimjasi]

51 minutes ago, JiF said:

Also fair but as I've mentioned before, I think he can play in a more open traditional NFL system and I think we a better team around him, he wont be asked to do everything.  The Ravens just jammed him into that system and did nothing to support him w/ weapons asking him to do everything.  And while he excelled and they won, it probably wasnt the best thing for him as a player.  That said because I think he's an underrated passer, I'd be transitioning him into someone who only uses his legs when necessary, maybe 2-3 designed runs a game.  Not too much different then what Saleh has said, play boring, we just need something special 2-3 times a game or whatever, etc.  

I agree with you completely. Lamar is a much better pocket passer than people realize, but that narrative is very much out there. 

[AFJF]

16 minutes ago, Ron Rico said:

LJ has a history of using the race card. I think that's the issue, it's not collusion. 

 

Does he?  I've seen and heard it from fans and ex-players but never LJ.

[jtomm]

33 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Matt Ryan, former MVP, also available. 

WAS  a very good qb. He needs to go home and enjoy his retirement. 

[jetblue95]

so this espn report (behind a paywell) indicates that jackson isn't necessarily looking for a fully-guaranteed contract, just one that has more guaranteed money than watson's $230MM guaranteed

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/insider/story/_/id/35995114/nfl-annual-meeting-buzz-aaron-rodgers-lamar-jackson-panthers-no-1-pick-owners-meeting-notes

By now, it's becoming clear that no NFL team is aggressively pursuing Lamar Jackson or preparing an offer sheet at the moment. That can change at any point, but so far, there's simply not much momentum. Jackson is clearly frustrated. Baltimore isn't pressing the issue. The Ravens don't need to do much until another team makes an offer, and I don't get the sense that the Ravens are aggressively negotiating on a deal for Jackson right now. Collusion will remain a trending topic as more QB-needy teams rule themselves out of the Jackson sweepstakes.

After asking some executives why they think the market is dry, the first reason usually given is that Baltimore would simply match any offer sheet, and thus the prospective team would do the legwork for the Ravens. Now, a sign-and-trade scenario would circumvent that process, especially if Baltimore feels like the QB-team relationship has reached a boiling point. But Baltimore's desire to keep Jackson is a common refrain among teams. Then there's the guaranteed money, the multiple first-round picks required to secure a deal and his durability concerns.

It's important to emphasize that it's very early. The draft can serve as an inflection point, especially if teams strike out on securing a long-term quarterback prospect in the early rounds. Maybe that won't matter to teams such as the Patriots and Colts, who are sending messages that the hefty price tag is a non-starter. But the franchise tag deadline to reach a long-term deal is July 17. Plenty of time.

Still, this has a chance to get uglier. Don't expect Jackson to sign the tag any time soon. From everything I've heard, Jackson is principled on this -- it's not just a matter of securing as many millions as possible, but setting the proper market commensurate with his skill set, thus helping future players in his situation. That might not be possible right now due to the circumstances, and Baltimore seems to know it. -- Fowler

 

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play

I had heard some chatter that Jackson was thinking about dropping in on the meetings, as Odell Beckham Jr. did briefly Tuesday, but he did not show up. Too bad. That would have ratcheted up the excitement on this a good bit! The sense I get is that, while the Ravens believe there is a path to reconciliation and hope to have Jackson as their QB in 2023 (and beyond), they would listen if a team such as the Colts called and wanted to talk about what it would take to get a deal done.

The draft is a big date here as well, since the Ravens would need whatever picks they got back for Jackson to help them find their next quarterback. But again, they hope it doesn't come to that. Some outside observers I've spoken to have suggested that the path to a Ravens/Jackson reunion is a shorter-term deal with heavy guarantees, like the three-year, $150 million one Rodgers signed with the Packers last offseason.

But the issue so far in contract talks, I am told, is that Jackson is insisting on getting more fully guaranteed money than the $230 million Deshaun Watson got in his deal with the Browns. After my conversations in Phoenix, I no longer believe Jackson was insisting that his deal be fully guaranteed -- just that the guaranteed portion of it be larger than Watson's. But I also get the sense from my sources that Jackson is irked by some of the Ravens' negotiating tactics, including some of the specific language in their offers last year, and that he's eager to see what other teams have to offer. It's entirely possible there's a deal out there that he would accept from another team that he wouldn't accept if the Ravens offered it right now.

Of course, Baltimore holds the cards because of the franchise tag and could, in the end, match any offer sheet or refuse to trade him. One thing we can say for sure at this point, after listening to the way other teams talked about Jackson at the meetings, is that the Ravens seem to be the team that wants him the most, for whatever that's worth. -- Graziano

[Ron Rico]

25 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Does he?  I've seen and heard it from fans and ex-players but never LJ.

Here's a sample

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/03/05/lamar-jackson-racial-bias-black-quarterbacks-nfl-the-shop

 

[batman10023]

4 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

(1) it costs literally NOTHING to just talk with him. It is a NEGOTIATION. You demand something, I counter. We go back and forth. Been happening in sports for decades. 

teams have seen how he's negotiating with the Ravens.   Perhaps thats part of it.

[BeaconJet]

https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1641486926132785161

Quote

Update: #Ravens QB Lamar Jackson isn't demanding a fully-guaranteed contract, per

@JFowlerESPN

He "just wants the guaranteed portion of it be larger than [Deshaun] Watson's."

 

[Untouchable]

4 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

so this espn report (behind a paywell) indicates that jackson isn't necessarily looking for a fully-guaranteed contract, just one that has more guaranteed money than watson's $230MM guaranteed

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/insider/story/_/id/35995114/nfl-annual-meeting-buzz-aaron-rodgers-lamar-jackson-panthers-no-1-pick-owners-meeting-notes

By now, it's becoming clear that no NFL team is aggressively pursuing Lamar Jackson or preparing an offer sheet at the moment. That can change at any point, but so far, there's simply not much momentum. Jackson is clearly frustrated. Baltimore isn't pressing the issue. The Ravens don't need to do much until another team makes an offer, and I don't get the sense that the Ravens are aggressively negotiating on a deal for Jackson right now. Collusion will remain a trending topic as more QB-needy teams rule themselves out of the Jackson sweepstakes.

After asking some executives why they think the market is dry, the first reason usually given is that Baltimore would simply match any offer sheet, and thus the prospective team would do the legwork for the Ravens. Now, a sign-and-trade scenario would circumvent that process, especially if Baltimore feels like the QB-team relationship has reached a boiling point. But Baltimore's desire to keep Jackson is a common refrain among teams. Then there's the guaranteed money, the multiple first-round picks required to secure a deal and his durability concerns.

It's important to emphasize that it's very early. The draft can serve as an inflection point, especially if teams strike out on securing a long-term quarterback prospect in the early rounds. Maybe that won't matter to teams such as the Patriots and Colts, who are sending messages that the hefty price tag is a non-starter. But the franchise tag deadline to reach a long-term deal is July 17. Plenty of time.

Still, this has a chance to get uglier. Don't expect Jackson to sign the tag any time soon. From everything I've heard, Jackson is principled on this -- it's not just a matter of securing as many millions as possible, but setting the proper market commensurate with his skill set, thus helping future players in his situation. That might not be possible right now due to the circumstances, and Baltimore seems to know it. -- Fowler

 

----------------------------

play

I had heard some chatter that Jackson was thinking about dropping in on the meetings, as Odell Beckham Jr. did briefly Tuesday, but he did not show up. Too bad. That would have ratcheted up the excitement on this a good bit! The sense I get is that, while the Ravens believe there is a path to reconciliation and hope to have Jackson as their QB in 2023 (and beyond), they would listen if a team such as the Colts called and wanted to talk about what it would take to get a deal done.

The draft is a big date here as well, since the Ravens would need whatever picks they got back for Jackson to help them find their next quarterback. But again, they hope it doesn't come to that. Some outside observers I've spoken to have suggested that the path to a Ravens/Jackson reunion is a shorter-term deal with heavy guarantees, like the three-year, $150 million one Rodgers signed with the Packers last offseason.

But the issue so far in contract talks, I am told, is that Jackson is insisting on getting more fully guaranteed money than the $230 million Deshaun Watson got in his deal with the Browns. After my conversations in Phoenix, I no longer believe Jackson was insisting that his deal be fully guaranteed -- just that the guaranteed portion of it be larger than Watson's. But I also get the sense from my sources that Jackson is irked by some of the Ravens' negotiating tactics, including some of the specific language in their offers last year, and that he's eager to see what other teams have to offer. It's entirely possible there's a deal out there that he would accept from another team that he wouldn't accept if the Ravens offered it right now.

Of course, Baltimore holds the cards because of the franchise tag and could, in the end, match any offer sheet or refuse to trade him. One thing we can say for sure at this point, after listening to the way other teams talked about Jackson at the meetings, is that the Ravens seem to be the team that wants him the most, for whatever that's worth. -- Graziano

I don’t see what the big difference is.

Either way, the dude still wants around a quarter of a billion dollars, fully guaranteed.

For a guy who has eclipsed 3,000 yards passing once in his career and has incrementally declined every year since his MVP season.

Lamar Jackson is dynamite as a runner, but speed is the first thing to go and he’s already had two lower body injuries over the last two years causing him to miss significant time.

And I’d be worried as all hell committing all of that money and draft resources to acquiring him and then sticking him in a traditional offense. People can say what they want about Greg Roman, but you won’t find a guy more qualified to orchestrate an offense around a run-first QB.

There are a lot more question marks surrounding Lamar than many in the media are letting on.

I realize the guy is almost 15 years younger than Rodgers, but I’d still prefer Rodgers, if only for a year or two.

[jetspenguin]

teams have seen how he's negotiating with the Ravens.   Perhaps thats part of it.

More accurately teams may have heard one side of the conversation because clearly they have not talked to him directly.

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.

[batman10023]

3 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Name the last high profile NFL qb in his prime that was a free agent that had ZERO teams talk with him.

he's not a free agent in the sense Bal can match any deal.  And you have to pay 2 first rounders to get him.

but other than that, sure excellent point.

[T0mShane]

Pretty good and well-reasoned takedown of Lamar by Randy Mueller, who discusses the logistics of trying to sign Lamar at this point and why it won’t happen. Bottom line: Lamar played himself and is going to suffer for it. 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-athletic-football-show-a-show-about-the-nfl/id1528622068?i=1000606556186

[batman10023]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

I've said, I'd give him whatever he wants.  How much more clear do I need to be?  Figure it the F out.  Give him 200 mil guaranteed, space it out over a decade for all I care.  I'm not dodging anything.  I'd do whatever it takes if I were a billionaire owner of a Football team who has the most losses in the AFC since the merger and has not had a QB since that time as well.   

And who's the bigger looney tune here my old friend?  The guy screaming at the sky?  Or the dude that continues to ask him why every time he does?  lmfao

 

  That owner is going after Rodgers.   He's doing whatever it takes to get a top tier QB.

[batman10023]

4 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

100% agreed it won't do anything for the vast majority of the players -- in the short run anyway. But owners don't want massive fully guaranteed deals for anyone. They prefer a more even spread across 53 guys where very few of them have significant guarantees.

Not at first -- but guess what happens when the majority of the players are getting less and less at the expense of superstars? The players union becomes stronger in its resolve to fight for more revenue during the next CBA negotiation.

The big picture point is that owners are happy with the status quo and anything that threatens that (especially when it involves massive guarantees that some owners can't even pay) needs to be squashed.

interesting angle on the next CBA negotiation.   gives me something to think about.  thanks

[CanadaSteve]

2 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

I mean I agree, but still surprising that Lamar is garnering 0 interest. You would think there would be atleast 1 team willing to give up 2 1sts and a contract to Lamar.

I have no doubt someone would give up two firsts for Lamar Jackson if he was as durable as Tom Brady was.  But he has missed A LOT of time the past two years.  When you are paying a guy that much money and he misses that much time, there is an issue.  I would already be difficult building a team around him when you are paying so much money to one guy; Then that guy misses 6 games a season?  Arthur Blank said it best. 

[jetblue95]

16 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

I don’t see what the big difference is.

Either way, the dude still wants around a quarter of a billion dollars, fully guaranteed.

For a guy who has eclipsed 3,000 yards passing once in his career and has incrementally declined every year since his MVP season.

Lamar Jackson is dynamite as a runner, but speed is the first thing to go and he’s already had two lower body injuries over the last two years causing him to miss significant time.

And I’d be worried as all hell committing all of that money and draft resources to acquiring him and then sticking him in a traditional offense. People can say what they want about Greg Roman, but you won’t find a guy more qualified to orchestrate an offense around a run-first QB.

There are a lot more question marks surrounding Lamar than many in the media are letting on.

I realize the guy is almost 15 years younger than Rodgers, but I’d still prefer Rodgers, if only for a year or two.

 

oh, i completely agree.

but since there are those that like to play the semantics game, i thought i would offer that article for the purpose of full disclosure.  

fully guaranteed or not, there's no way i think giving over $230 million in guarantees to jackson AND forking over two 1st round draft picks is a smart move.  certainly not for the jets. 

[bicketybam]

The last time a non-exclusive franchise player switched teams for the full compensation was Joey Galloway in 2000 when he went from the Seahawks to the Cowboys.

[Flashlite80]

After Deshaun Watson got a fully guaranteed contract, who should be surprised that other young quarterbacks want the same.  The Ravens tried 3 years with $133MM guaranteed, trying to dial back to the guarantee in Mahomes contract.

I will not be surprised if some team will offer something less than 2 first round picks, with the intention of offering a 5 year guaranteed contract similar to Watson.

Baltimore should make him play under the franchise tag this year and next.  If they let the players create a full guaranteed standard, it won't take long before every pro bowl performer will want the same.  Guaranteed contracts will collapse any attempt to continue to implement a salary cap.  The salary cap is a major component of owners franchise value.  It is no wonder they are so reluctant to anything that threatens it.

[JohnnyLV]

Pure and simple, Lamar Jackson is an idiot. Flat out. He is completely delusional thinking that in any world a team is going to guarantee him $250 million. Just is not happening.

But that is not what makes him an idiot.

In their first five years Josh Allen has made $85 million and Jackosn $23 million. That's $62 million. At the end of the upcoming 2 tags he will be behind around $80 million. Jackson is never ever going to make up that difference.

EVER. He brags he turned down 3 years/$133 million fully guaranteed with possibility of another huge contract after 3 years. So he's over $100 million behind his OWN contract offers. An agent would have explained this to him. Now all he can do is whine and complain, play the race card and of course hold out putting himself even farther behind.

[oatmeal]

LMAO ???