slats Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 56 minutes ago, JiF said: I think Lamar has made mistakes playing his own agent and I think that's factoring into the league punishing him for Cleveland giving Watson that contract. For example; the sh*tty Commanders who are desperate for someone like Lamar to save their franchise, are currently "good w/ Jacoby Brissett and Sam Howell" and not even willing to reach out and talk to him? gtfo. lmfao. It's quite clear what's going on here. The league is taking a collective stand and unfortunately for Lamar, I think this has a lot to do w/ timing just because he was the next superstar up, after the Browns set the league into a tizzy. Commanders are in the middle of an ownership change. Broncos finalized their trade for Russell Wilson before the Waltons took over, and I doubt they’re very thrilled with their predecessor’s big move. Letting the new owner figure it out is the better move for a team on the block. But what other team should be in the bidding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Just now, Scott Dierking said: The compensation package can be negotiated with the Ravens. So I’m still not giving him 5 guaranteed years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 22 hours ago, dbatesman said: 100%. The agreement is clearly to never give out another fully guaranteed deal. Lamar just happens to be the first guy running into it. So, you think the Ravens just didn’t get the memo? https://www.nfl.com/_amp/ravens-qb-lamar-jackson-tweets-he-turned-down-three-year-133m-fully-guaranteed-c 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 10 minutes ago, slimjasi said: So, you think the Ravens just didn’t get the memo? https://www.nfl.com/_amp/ravens-qb-lamar-jackson-tweets-he-turned-down-three-year-133m-fully-guaranteed-c 21 hours ago, dbatesman said: I mean a Watson-sized guaranteed deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman10023 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 13 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said: You say “take my point to the end result” but it doesn’t seem like you understood my point at all. you weren't being clear then. guaranteed salaries will not do anything for the vast majority of players. in addition there will be a several year period where guys will get really bad second contracts due to the money owed to earlier players via the guarantee. the aggregate amount paid to players doesn't change. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 14 minutes ago, sec101row23 said: So I’m still not giving him 5 guaranteed years. It only takes one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetblue95 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said: Inquiring Minds: Why does a 26 year old former MVP not even get an invite to an interview to just sit down and talk by any club? because: (1) said former MVP is looking for a fully-guaranteed contract on par with what watson got, and for the benefit of giving him this contract, you also need to give up two 1st round picks (2) said former MVP's current team (based on the franchise tag) can match any offer given to him, and the expectation is they probably will unless it is an outlandish contract, so basically you are just wasting your time (3) said former MVP's play has declined somewhat sharply from his MVP season in 2019 (4) said former MVP has ended each of the last 2 seasons on the injured reserve and the things that make him a former MVP are the things that are likely to lead to further injuries (5) said former MVP is 1-3 in his career in the playoffs, with 3 TDs and 5 Ints combined (also 19 sacks taken and 2 fumbles lost) and last but not least (6) said former MVP refuses to utilize an agent, so there is no one for a team to have back-channel talks with before you'd even reach the level of bringing him in to discuss a contract 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetblue95 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 40 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: Hard flung revelation here, but billionaire owners have been caught colluding many times. independent decisions to not make foolish business decisions is not collusion. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetblue95 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 21 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: The compensation package can be negotiated with the Ravens. why would the ravens take anything less than two 1st round picks? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 minute ago, jetblue95 said: because: (1) said former MVP is looking for a fully-guaranteed contract on par with what watson got, and for the benefit of giving him this contract, you also need to give up two 1st round picks (2) said former MVP's current team (based on the franchise tag) can match any offer given to him, and the expectation is they probably will unless it is an outlandish contract, so basically you are just wasting your time (3) said former MVP's play has declined somewhat sharply from his MVP season in 2019 (4) said former MVP has ended each of the last 2 seasons on the injured reserve and the things that make him a former MVP are the things that are likely to lead to further injuries (5) said former MVP is 1-3 in his career in the playoffs, with 3 TDs and 5 Ints combined (also 19 sacks taken and 2 fumbles lost) and last but not least (6) said former MVP refuses to utilize an agent, so there is no one for a team to have back-channel talks with before you'd even reach the level of bringing him in to discuss a contract (1) it costs literally NOTHING to just talk with him. It is a NEGOTIATION. You demand something, I counter. We go back and forth. Been happening in sports for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Just now, jetblue95 said: why would the ravens take anything less than two 1st round picks? Because they could consider him a depreciating asset. May players have been tagged, and then traded at less than the tag definition is of compensation. I can't speak for the Ravens, as I am not in their inner circle. But, these deals have been brokered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetblue95 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said: (1) it costs literally NOTHING to just talk with him. It is a NEGOTIATION. You demand something, I counter. We go back and forth. Been happening in sports for decades. why waste your time with a player you may or may not want, who is asking for an outrageous contract which unless it is so crazy, it will be matched by baltimore (and if it's crazy enough that they won't match...well you are tying your career and near-term future to this injury-prone, declining player who will take up a disproportionate share of your cap and cause you to lose two 1st rounders) and yes, teams (GM and owners) want to deal with agents, not players. you think lamar is capable of discussing the legal details of a record-setting, complex contract. i'm mean sure - you can bring him in, ask what he wants, have him say i want d watson's contract, and then say, thank you for coming in. i guess that would make you happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 With the Sacramento Kings making the playoffs last night the NYJ now have the longest playoff drought in American sports. Congratulations to us sorry bastards Topical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetblue95 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: Because they could consider him a depreciating asset. May players have been tagged, and then traded at less than the tag definition is of compensation. I can't speak for the Ravens, as I am not in their inner circle. But, these deals have been brokered. i think the ravens would be fine having him play another year on the franchise tag. especially since the alternatives at this point are limited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flea Flicking Frank Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: Because they could consider him a depreciating asset. May players have been tagged, and then traded at less than the tag definition is of compensation. I can't speak for the Ravens, as I am not in their inner circle. But, these deals have been brokered. What would you as a Jets fan offer Lamar for a contract and comp for the Ravens to get him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Not to my satisfaction. So there. Live with it. There is a chance that both of us could be wrong simultaneously. But you don't seem to consider that option. Have you ever seen a car that you know that you can't afford by reputation? And just stopped in to the dealer to take a look and see the sticker? To see what the detail is and the options? It costs nothing to kick the tires. Hard flung revelation here, but billionaire owners have been caught colluding many times. If someone really wanted him, they'd be talking to him. FFS his own team let him go free to talk to other teams. Maybe, just maybe, he's priced himself out of the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 58 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: Not to my satisfaction. So there. Live with it. No one cares if you're satisfied, lol. You want to scream at the sky day after day about it, that is your right. Same as it is my right to point and laugh at you. I tried to take you seriously, and gave you a legit fully considered and very detailed answer, and you ignored it because you frankly had nothing in terms of arguments or facts to retort. You're basically just repeating over and over "I think it's collusion!!!!" while ignoring anything and everything else. 58 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: There is a chance that both of us could be wrong simultaneously. But you don't seem to consider that option. See, that's the problem, my argument is based on actual demonstrable facts, not baseless conspiracy theories, so no, I am not "wrong" when I say that some teams haven't expressed interest because they already have a franchise QB under contract, for example. That isn't speculation, it's a simple fact. The Chiefs haven't reached out, because they have Mahomes. One team down, no theorycrafting or conspiracies' required, just a look at the facts in play. The burden is on you to show why the Chiefs would thus engage in this collusion conspiracy theory. Or the Jets for that matter, when we're clearly all-in on Rodgers. Go down the list of reasons I provided you, and you may have only a handful for whom there is no clear, reasonable, logical reason why they'd not reach out. Hardly enough to imply league-wide collusion conspiracies. 58 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: Have you ever seen a car that you know that you can't afford by reputation? And just stopped in to the dealer to take a look and see the sticker? To see what the detail is and the options? It costs nothing to kick the tires. No, I have never done that. Is this something you do often? Also, some schmuck like me wasting his day to go to a Maserati dealer is hardly akin to an NFL team spending real business time on a player they're not interested in or cannot/choose not to afford. 58 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: Hard flung revelation here, but billionaire owners have been caught colluding many times. Which is not relevant here. This is not evidence of collusion now. If it is collusion, where is Lamar Jackson's lawsuit? Surely the very player being colluded against would be quick to file one, in enlightened self-interest, if it were so obvious as you seem to think, right? So where is the lawsuit? And if Lamar doesn't think it's collusion enough to file one, what makes you think you know more then he does? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 16 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: Because they could consider him a depreciating asset. May players have been tagged, and then traded at less than the tag definition is of compensation. I can't speak for the Ravens, as I am not in their inner circle. But, these deals have been brokered. Ravens are behaving as if they expect Lamar to be their QB this season. Harbaugh was dealing with the media at the owners meeting when LJ’s tweet announcing he asked to be traded dropped, and he didn’t miss a beat. Simply said the team always has contingency plans, but they are looking forward to Jackson at QB this season. They have no incentive to make it easier to move a player they don’t want to move. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 11 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: Because they could consider him a depreciating asset. May players have been tagged, and then traded at less than the tag definition is of compensation. I can't speak for the Ravens, as I am not in their inner circle. But, these deals have been brokered. That is how the Patriots got Welker. I have wondered if it is the Ravens playing hardball. A team asks if they would budge on the compensation, they say no. Thus sort of poisoning any talks between Lamar and (insert team here). I do not think a first-round pick would be the issue. It is the second for a player that has missed nine games the past two years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 18 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: (1) it costs literally NOTHING to just talk with him. It is a NEGOTIATION. You demand something, I counter. We go back and forth. Been happening in sports for decades. It costs both time and effort, at minimum. It also undercuts whomever your current QB on your roster is. You may not value these things, but NFL teams generally do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 26 minutes ago, batman10023 said: you weren't being clear then. guaranteed salaries will not do anything for the vast majority of players. in addition there will be a several year period where guys will get really bad second contracts due to the money owed to earlier players via the guarantee. 100% agreed it won't do anything for the vast majority of the players -- in the short run anyway. But owners don't want massive fully guaranteed deals for anyone. They prefer a more even spread across 53 guys where very few of them have significant guarantees. 26 minutes ago, batman10023 said: the aggregate amount paid to players doesn't change. Not at first -- but guess what happens when the majority of the players are getting less and less at the expense of superstars? The players union becomes stronger in its resolve to fight for more revenue during the next CBA negotiation. The big picture point is that owners are happy with the status quo and anything that threatens that (especially when it involves massive guarantees that some owners can't even pay) needs to be squashed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornJetsFan1983 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 He does not have a whole season left in him. Every year it's going to be injury this or that. The running style qb ain't it. I'm sorry but this is like Kaepernick level stupid. Kid is not worth the money. He is sabotaging him self Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 23 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: (1) it costs literally NOTHING to just talk with him. It is a NEGOTIATION. You demand something, I counter. We go back and forth. Been happening in sports for decades. I think it’s pretty safe to say that the asks are too high at this point. No team wants to give up their first round pick this year for him. Many of those QB needy teams would rather try to find their own FQB thru the draft and pay him a total of $42M over four years as opposed to $200M over that same period of time. And save next year’s #1 in the process. The conversations will continue, but I think the market doesn’t change until after the draft. One of those QB needy teams maybe misses on the QB they wanted, drafts a stud Edge (or something) instead, then considers putting together a package involving the following two years’ #1s. In the meantime hoping that the wait leads to Jackson either putting a management team in place for himself, or makes it be known that he’s willing to negotiate off of his alleged demands. Of course, even that path deals with the likelihood that Baltimore will want to match, especially when they’re getting nothing at all for him this year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Warfish said: The team selling and Dan Snyder being Dan Snyder isn't speculation JiF. The problem JiF is you've boxed yourself into a corner. You're so all-in on Lamar, so over-the-top about him, that you're to the point of rejecting reality over it rather than face that not everyone shares your excessive view on him. I mean ffs, you don't even accept that he's a risky player, and you've made arguments that he's the best passer in the NFL behind only Mahomes, maybe, lol. I’ve repeatedly said the injury history is the only concern. And what corner? Lol I’m not making a decision, I’m just some dweeb sharing my opinion on the situation on the interwebz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 hour ago, slats said: Commanders are in the middle of an ownership change. Broncos finalized their trade for Russell Wilson before the Waltons took over, and I doubt they’re very thrilled with their predecessor’s big move. Letting the new owner figure it out is the better move for a team on the block. But what other team should be in the bidding? Every team who doesn’t have a QB of Lamar’s ilk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 9 minutes ago, JiF said: Lol I’m not making a decision, I’m just some dweeb sharing my opinion on the situation on the interwebz. You fall back on this any time you get a question or comment you can't or won't answer "whoah, I'm not the GM, I don't have to figure out how to make my unrealistic collusion-conspiracy fantasy demand happen or answer how it could happen, I'm just a FAN". Generally, we do generally like to have exchanges here with some basis in reality. Some of us, at least. At least you didn't pull out the "I'm just asking questions" trope, I suppose. You're right tho, you're just a fan, and Lamar to the Jets clearly isn't happening, so you're just screaming at the sky at this point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeardedSavage Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 2 hours ago, JiF said: I think Lamar has made mistakes playing his own agent and I think that's factoring into the league punishing him for Cleveland giving Watson that contract. For example; the sh*tty Commanders who are desperate for someone like Lamar to save their franchise, are currently "good w/ Jacoby Brissett and Sam Howell" and not even willing to reach out and talk to him? gtfo. lmfao. It's quite clear what's going on here. The league is taking a collective stand and unfortunately for Lamar, I think this has a lot to do w/ timing just because he was the next superstar up, after the Browns set the league into a tizzy. I agree with everything you're saying. Just feel like if he wasn't going for the fully guaranteed deal - he wouldn't be "available". Baltimore would be paying him. So I do feel like Lamar's availability is a mirage right now. This could become interesting, and might be Lamar's only path out, if he says "I do not want a fully guaranteed contract but I will not play for the Ravens again". Then I think we see movement. If I were him, I'd say that and start immediately calling the 49ers - "Come get me and backload that deal, I'll play for cheap the next two years, and lets win a SB" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Flea Flicking Frank said: What would you as a Jets fan offer Lamar for a contract and comp for the Ravens to get him? Fans don't make offers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 39 minutes ago, slats said: I think it’s pretty safe to say that the asks are too high at this point. No team wants to give up their first round pick this year for him. Many of those QB needy teams would rather try to find their own FQB thru the draft and pay him a total of $42M over four years as opposed to $200M over that same period of time. And save next year’s #1 in the process. The conversations will continue, but I think the market doesn’t change until after the draft. One of those QB needy teams maybe misses on the QB they wanted, drafts a stud Edge (or something) instead, then considers putting together a package involving the following two years’ #1s. In the meantime hoping that the wait leads to Jackson either putting a management team in place for himself, or makes it be known that he’s willing to negotiate off of his alleged demands. Of course, even that path deals with the likelihood that Baltimore will want to match, especially when they’re getting nothing at all for him this year. It would make more sense for a team with a 1st round pick in the 20s to consider, but who among the playoff teams needs a new starting QB? Tampa (19) and MIN (23) seem like remote possibilities. DAL at 26 if Jerry Jones wakes up on the wrong side of the bed. Overall, it's just too much of a long shot. Since the NFL killed the poison pill provision of offers, it's pretty neutered. The deal that I heard on Twitter this morning that was interesting was: 49ers - Ravens trade. Lance plus picks for Lamar. That actually could make some sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flea Flicking Frank Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: Fans don't make offers. thats a cop out, if you want him on the team, throw out a framework 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said: thats a cop out, if you want him on the team, throw out a framework I am not arguing to have him on the Jets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flea Flicking Frank Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said: I am not arguing to have him on the Jets. your arguing JD should want him on the Jets?, Im so confused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 59 minutes ago, Warfish said: It costs both time and effort, at minimum. It also undercuts whomever your current QB on your roster is. You may not value these things, but NFL teams generally do. NFL teams talk to free agents all the time. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said: I am not arguing to have him on the Jets. Why not? Are you colluding against him too? Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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