For curiosity's sake: Hurts or Jackson?

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

idk, I'm confused, so I looked at more metrics and got more confused but I did notice that Lamar had 43 passing TD's in 1 season/16 starts and Jalen Hurts has 44 passing TD's in 3 seasons/34 starts.  I thought that was interesting.

Confused about total TDs vs. Passing TDs at least.

Lamar had 36 passing TDs in 2019.  7 Rushing TDs.  That is the 43 you thought you saw.  But since we're combing them, should we talk about Hurts having a combined 35 TDs last season while Lamar had a combined 20 TD?  

This obsession with circling 2019 stats and ignoring the following 3 seasons is really baffling.

[peebag]

I'll take Lamar.  

Go back and watch the Jets game last year vs. the Ravens.  Lamar was the best player on the field and it wasn't even close.

[JiFtheOracle]

3 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Confused about total TDs vs. Passing TDs at least.

Lamar had 36 passing TDs in 2019.  7 Rushing TDs.  That is the 43 you thought you saw.  But since we're combing them, should we talk about Hurts having a combined 35 TDs last season while Lamar had a combined 20 TD?  

This obsession with circling 2019 stats and ignoring the following 3 seasons is really baffling.

Damn it!  I didnt actually looking anything up!  

[Jet_Engine1]

Hurts Is bigger and stronger and will get better and better.

 

Lamar has already peaked. 

[jtomm]

32 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Hurts and its not even remotely close

Let's  clone  him.

[JiFtheOracle]

13 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Confused about total TDs vs. Passing TDs at least.

Lamar had 36 passing TDs in 2019.  7 Rushing TDs.  That is the 43 you thought you saw.  But since we're combing them, should we talk about Hurts having a combined 35 TDs last season while Lamar had a combined 20 TD?  

This obsession with circling 2019 stats and ignoring the following 3 seasons is really baffling.

Ok, I looked stuff up this time instead of just pooping out of my mouth.  Lets remove rookies season since neither started but both did year 2 and both actually missed the same amount of games during those 2 season.  So this is neat; Lamar had 62's passing TD's in 30 games.  Hurts had 38 passing TD's in 30 games.  Weird.  That's, weird.  It's almost like there is narrative in this conversation or something.

Oh and this season, as I already stated Lamar had a better passing TD %, this season.  Only had 5 less passing TD's in 4 less games?  Pretty similar.  Both great players.  I'd take Lamar.

[BigRy56]

I’ve been a fan of Hurts dating back to his Alabama days… so I am biased but I’d take him. Hurts can hold up to the hits he will take 

[bicketybam]

Hurts all day long and twice on Sundays.

[Hex]

I chose Lamar because we know more about him, but it's close. Not to mention Hurts' extension is pretty large.

[TuscanyTile2]

42 minutes ago, JiF said:

Hurts has a much better playoff record and stats.  Definitely has nothing to do w/  the he plays for and the conference he plays in though, that's for sure.

That much we can be certain of!

[rex-n-effect]

Run heavy QBs usually have a short shelf life in the league. It seems we're seeing Jackson struggle with injuries already. Hurts seems to understand and worked to improve his passing. Hurts has way more upside than Jackson. 

[jetblue95]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

Lamar.  Talent isnt even comparable.  Jalen played out of his mind and put up was an average year for Lamar on 1000000x better team  Very surprised the Eagles did this after 1 year of good play and middling numbers, you would think you would want to see it one more time before making him one the richest QB in the NFL but good for him, seems like a great kid.

 

where the heck do you come up with this stuff???  you are still stuck on 2019 with lamar

for the last 3 years, an "average year for lamar" is 2,627 yards passing, 19.7 TDs, 9.7 Ints, 845 yards rushing and 4 rushing TDs.  if we just look at his 2021/2022 average, it's 2,562 yards, 16.5 TDs, 10 Ints, 765 rusing yards and 2.5 rushing TDs

last year, hurts had 3,701 yards passing, 22 Tds, 6 Ints, 760 yards rushing and 13 rushing TDs

now it's possible hurts follows lamar and sees his on-field performance plummet precipitously over the next 3 years while missing more and more games with injuries.  it's not a contract without risk for philly.

but no, hurts' 2022 numbers were not equal to an "average year for lamar", and outside of 2019, they are much better than anything lamar ever did.  and as a bonus, he did lead his team to a super bowl, winning more playoff games in a season than lamar has in his career.

[slats]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

idk, I'm confused, so I looked at more metrics and got more confused but I did notice that Lamar had 43 passing TD's in 1 season/16 starts and Jalen Hurts has 44 passing TD's in 3 seasons/34 starts.  I thought that was interesting.

His MVP season was pretty spectacular. Jackson’s very dangerous in the red zone, probably his stand out trait. As others have said, though, that was a while back now. When you say about Hurts’ contract that you’re surprised the Eagles gave them that after only one great year, is Lamar’s coming down to Earth since 2019 in the back of your mind? 
 
Hurts is on a pretty clear trajectory as a pocket passer. I would’ve hoped that Lamar would be even further along with more years in the league, but he’s behind. 

[JiFtheOracle]

1 minute ago, jetblue95 said:

 

where the heck do you come up with this stuff???  you are still stuck on 2019 with lamar

for the last 3 years, an "average year for lamar" is 2,627 yards passing, 19.7 TDs, 9.7 Ints, 845 yards rushing and 4 rushing TDs.  if we just look at his 2021/2022 average, it's 2,562 yards, 16.5 TDs, 10 Ints, 765 rusing yards and 2.5 rushing TDs

last year, hurts had 3,701 yards passing, 22 Tds, 6 Ints, 760 yards rushing and 13 rushing TDs

now it's possible hurts follows lamar and sees his on-field performance plummet precipitously over the next 3 years while missing more and more games with injuries.  it's not a contract without risk for philly.

but no, hurts' 2022 numbers were not equal to an "average year for lamar", and outside of 2019, they are much better than anything lamar ever did.  and as a bonus, he did lead his team to a super bowl, winning more playoff games in a season than lamar has in his career.

True.  Hurts throws for more yards for sure, also throws the ball a lot more...like I said, averages out a lot except Lamar is much higher passing TD %

[Kelly to Allen no huddle]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

idk, I'm confused, so I looked at more metrics and got more confused but I did notice that Lamar had 43 passing TD's in 1 season/16 starts and Jalen Hurts has 44 passing TD's in 3 seasons/34 starts.  I thought that was interesting.

Navy option Lamar has never had 43 passing tds in 1 season

Five years ago when he ran his way to the MVP he was at the bottom in air yards and threw a bunch of tds in short yardage out of the pistol

 

If you don't want to answer the question it's whatever. 

The guy is very limited and not my cup of tea. Hurts is a better passer but you won't see that box score scouting 

[UntouchableCrew]

Hurts. There are reasons to remain skeptical of him after one breakout year but the combination of his character, work ethic and consistent improvement throughout his career make him appealing to me. I'd feel better with him as the face of the franchise and I think despite the fact that he runs a lot his build makes him more likely to stay healthy.

Jackson is incredibly dynamic but his frame and his reliance on athleticism really lead me to believe his game will age like milk.

My guess -- Lamar Jackson's 2019 season will be the best season he ever has. Jalen Hurts' best season is yet to come.

[Kelly to Allen no huddle]

From 15-17 tyrod Taylor ( his last 3 years in buffalo), has put up better passing statistics than Lamar's past 3 years....

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, JiF said:

idk, I'm confused, so I looked at more metrics and got more confused but I did notice that Lamar had 43 passing TD's in 1 season/16 starts and Jalen Hurts has 44 passing TD's in 3 seasons/34 starts.  I thought that was interesting.

Navy option Lamar has never had 43 passing tds in 1 season

Five years ago when he ran his way to the MVP he was at the bottom in air yards and threw a bunch of tds (36)in short yardage out of the pistol. He totaled 3100 yds passing on the year , the most of his career....

 

If you don't want to answer the question it's whatever. 

The guy is very limited and not my cup of tea. Hurts is a better passer but you won't see that box score scouting 

[jetblue95]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

True.  Hurts throws for more yards for sure, also throws the ball a lot more...like I said, averages out a lot except Lamar is much higher passing TD %

 

you seems stuck on one metric - passing TD%

lamar was 9th in the league in this this season, just after geno smith and jimmy garrapolo and right ahead of marcus mariota

but for overall on field production, lamar has been nowhere near what hurts did this year since 2019.  hurts throws for a lot more yards, throws less interceptions, had a better completion percentage, had a better QB rating, and rushed for a lot more TDs (hurts has 1 less rushing TD in 2021/22 combined than lamar does in his career).  add in he's younger and just took his team to the super bowl (and it's not like the ravens are some crap organization that had no success before jackson came along like say the bengals and burrow)

[JiFtheOracle]

Just now, jetblue95 said:

 

you seems stuck on one metric - passing TD%

lamar was 9th in the league in this this season, just after geno smith and jimmy garrapolo and right ahead of marcus mariota

but for overall on field production, lamar has been nowhere near what hurts did this year since 2019.  hurts throws for a lot more yards, throws less interceptions, had a better completion percentage, had a better QB rating, and rushed for a lot more TDs (hurts has 1 less rushing TD in 2021/22 combined than lamar does in his career).  add in he's younger and just took his team to the super bowl (and it's not like the ravens are some crap organization that had no success before jackson came along like say the bengals and burrow)

The Ravens went from top 5 scoring team, to the worst scoring team in the NFL.  This idea that Lamar doesnt have production is next level dumb sh*t.  The Ravens were in first place of the AFC strictly because of Lamar Jackson.  The Eagles lost both games Hurts missed but Minshew put up 34 pts vs. the Cowboys.  The Ravens never scored more then 17.  I say stupid sh*t in these argument just because of how little context any of you even want to provide in anything Lamar related.  It's ******* hilarious.  Look at the ass backward narratives in this thread.  At this point in their careers, they had missed the same amount of games, and Hurts has run the ball more but his style of play keeps him healthy.  It's bonkers narrative sh*t.  Ridiculous.  But it's cool, I like laughing. 

Hurts is a great player, happy for the kid, Id take Lamar. 

[Kelly to Allen no huddle]

A key statistic for qbs. 

Lamar's yards per attempt has precipitously gone down over the past 3 years

Hurts has gradually gone up. 

 

Y/a is a major indicator if a QB is progressing.

 

 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

At 50 million per?

bleh to both.

[jetblue95]

10 minutes ago, JiF said:

The Ravens went from top 5 scoring team, to the worst scoring team in the NFL.  This idea that Lamar doesnt have production is next level dumb sh*t.  The Ravens were in first place of the AFC strictly because of Lamar Jackson.  The Eagles lost both games Hurts missed but Minshew put up 34 pts vs. the Cowboys.  The Ravens never scored more then 17.  I say stupid sh*t in these argument just because of how little context any of you even want to provide in anything Lamar related.  It's ******* hilarious.  Look at the ass backward narratives in this thread.  At this point in their careers, they had missed the same amount of games, and Hurts has run the ball more but his style of play keeps him healthy.  It's bonkers narrative sh*t.  Ridiculous.  But it's cool, I like laughing. 

Hurts is a great player, happy for the kid, Id take Lamar. 

 

you are missing one key thing

tyler hundley sucks donkey balls.  which would explain the drop in production when lamar get hurt and they didn't have a suitable replacement for the offense they had to craft to suit lamar's unique skillset.

lamar is a good player, but i think you overstate his overall production because you focus way too much on 2019 and not enough on 2020, 2021 and 2022.  his numbers those years or decent.  nothing special.  and certainly nothing worthy of the contract demands he reportedly has.

again, there is a risk hurts regresses from his 2022 level.  i won't deny that. the eagles are taking a gamble with this contract.  but as it is, he's one of the top 3 or 4 QBs in the league right now and his 2022 production is vastly better than what jackson has done since 2019.

i believe that thinking lamar ever approaches his 2019 level is wishful thinking, and his last 2 or 3 years is more representative of what he is today and going forward (assuming he can stay on the field).  a guy that will give you 2,700-3,200 yards passing, maybe 20 passing TDs with 8-10 Ints, 800 yards rushing a 2-4 rushing TDs.  exciting player, but not one shown to take his team over the top and excel in january.

[Kelly to Allen no huddle]

32 minutes ago, JiF said:

The Ravens went from top 5 scoring team, to the worst scoring team in the NFL.  This idea that Lamar doesnt have production is next level dumb sh*t.  The Ravens were in first place of the AFC strictly because of Lamar Jackson.  The Eagles lost both games Hurts missed but Minshew put up 34 pts vs. the Cowboys.  The Ravens never scored more then 17.  I say stupid sh*t in these argument just because of how little context any of you even want to provide in anything Lamar related.  It's ******* hilarious.  Look at the ass backward narratives in this thread.  At this point in their careers, they had missed the same amount of games, and Hurts has run the ball more but his style of play keeps him healthy.  It's bonkers narrative sh*t.  Ridiculous.  But it's cool, I like laughing. 

Hurts is a great player, happy for the kid, Id take Lamar. 

Can you show everyone Lamar's playoff statistics.... He has made Danny dimes look like frickin Marino

 

Stop it dude

[New York Mick]

Hurts. He’s hurt less. 

[FootballLove]

Hurts' new contract has to really kill Lamar "what's wrong with ME?" Jackson. ouch

[JiFtheOracle]

2 hours ago, Kelly to Allen no huddle said:

Can you show everyone Lamar's playoff statistics.... He has made Danny dimes look like frickin Marino

 

Stop it dude

So weak.  Go luck up Peyton Mannings “playoff stats and record” before he won a chip. 

[Dcat]

3 hours ago, Kelly to Allen no huddle said:

A key statistic for qbs. 

Lamar's yards per attempt has precipitously gone down over the past 3 years

Hurts has gradually gone up. 

 

Y/a is a major indicator if a QB is progressing.

 

 

How is Zach Wilson's y/a?

yayayaya

[Kelly to Allen no huddle]

33 minutes ago, JiF said:

So weak.  Go luck up Peyton Mannings “playoff stats and record” before he won a chip. 

Please god tell me this is a joke. Please for all that is holy!

[Kelly to Allen no huddle]

38 minutes ago, JiF said:

So weak.  Go luck up Peyton Mannings “playoff stats and record” before he won a chip. 

Which offense did manning run?

Which offense does navy option Lamar run? 

[Kelly to Allen no huddle]

5 hours ago, nycdan said:

Confused about total TDs vs. Passing TDs at least.

Lamar had 36 passing TDs in 2019.  7 Rushing TDs.  That is the 43 you thought you saw.  But since we're combing them, should we talk about Hurts having a combined 35 TDs last season while Lamar had a combined 20 TD?  

This obsession with circling 2019 stats and ignoring the following 3 seasons is really baffling.

It's a massive cope. The media has gone full tilt Lamar propaganda. The irony is hurts is everything the media has tried to pretend Lamar is.... 

It's extremely weird 

[Smashmouth]

6 hours ago, JiF said:

idk, I'm confused, so I looked at more metrics and got more confused but I did notice that Lamar had 43 passing TD's in 1 season/16 starts and Jalen Hurts has 44 passing TD's in 3 seasons/34 starts.  I thought that was interesting.

in what fantasy world did Lamar Jackson have 43 passing TD's in one season ?

[GangGreened]

Until Lamar can prove he didn’t peak in 2019, it’s Hurts.

Lamar also has bad playoff statz

[Smashmouth]

Side-by-side comparison of Jalen Hurts’ deal with the Eagles and the Ravens’ offer to Lamar Jackson last September (per

@AdamSchefter

) TOTAL VALUE JH: $255M LJ: $250M FULL GTD AT SIGNING JH: $110M LJ: $133M TOTAL GTD JH: $179.3M LJ: $200M

One other thing, Lamar is certainly better at being an idiot

[Kelly to Allen no huddle]

13 minutes ago, GangGreened said:

Until Lamar can prove he didn’t peak in 2019, it’s Hurts.

Lamar also has bad playoff statz

bUt mAnnINg hAd bAd plAyoFF gAmEs....

[Doggin94it]

10 hours ago, Dcat said:

Just curious.  If you could select Hurts or Lamar Jackson (with exactly same contracts as the one he signed today), which would it be?

Hurts, but only because if my QB is going to run that often I'd vastly prefer 6'1 223 to 6'2 212.