Saquon Wants To Get Paid

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, jetblue95 said:

it is kind of amazing that the franchise tag amount for a RB (just over $10MM) is equal to what the 31st highest paid WR is making this year.

i understand the dynamics of why this is the case, but it still seems shocking.  even odder to me is that TE and S are higher "value" positions, with tag amounts of $11.3MM & $14.5MM, respectively.

In peewee football when my son was that age, every kid either wanted to be QB or RB.  The best athletes always became the RB.  At that age, it makes sense because there really isn't much of a passing game.  Even up through high school, a good RB can do a lot more damage than a good WR.  

But if my son were actually thinking about football at least up to the college level, I'd steer him hard clear away from RB.  It's insanity to even consider it if you have any other options.

[FidelioJet]

11 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

kickers rarely miss a game and it's harder to find a good one

Supply and Demand...basic economics.

[FidelioJet]

11 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

 

This is dumb..

But the RB's need to do something.  The NFLPA needs to work something out to make sure these guys can get pain in their prime.  Unfortunately they pretty much only have 5 years before they're become expendable.

[slats]

18 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

i understand the dynamics of why this is the case, but it still seems shocking.  even odder to me is that TE and S are higher "value" positions, with tag amounts of $11.3MM & $14.5MM, respectively.

RB and Safety being down there make sense. They’re the most easily replaceable positions in the sport. Imho, it’s the TE position that’s due a huge bump in pay. These are not the average sized dudes that safeties and RBs are, these are guys 6’4”+ and 250lb+, expected to block like an OL and catch like a WR and, when they do, they still don’t get paid like either of those positions. It’s way out of whack. 

[jetblue95]

1 minute ago, slats said:

RB and Safety being down there make sense. They’re the most easily replaceable positions in the sport. Imho, it’s the TE position that’s due a huge bump in pay. These are not the average sized dudes that safeties and RBs are, these are guys 6’4”+ and 250lb+, expected to block like an OL and catch like a WR and, when they do, they still don’t get paid like either of those positions. It’s way out of whack. 

not sure i agree with this.

i mean sure, the elite TEs should be paid.  but when JAG guys like will dissly and cj uzomah are getting $8MM (#15-16 in pay) and guys like mo allie-cox and ian thomas are making $5.8MM & $5.6MM (#24-25), while austin ekeler is playing for $6.1MM, that's crazy. 

[Bobby816]

2 hours ago, slats said:

This is not realistic. If a player tried this, it would be his last year in the league. And a guy looking for $15M/year isn’t seeing $4M as “great money,” anyway. 
 
What he’s likely to do is sit out all of training camp. He can sit just about up until opening day, and then not be very useful the first few games of the season while he gets himself into football shape with the team. The Giants could technically pull the tag at any time before he chooses to sign, but then he instantly becomes a free agent. The Giants aren’t risking that. Maybe next year they’ll then come to the table with a more generous offer to get him into camp on time. That’s about the best he can hope for. 

They sit out TC and bc they're not in playing shape and hurt their hamstring and nurse that all season. Not taking nearly as many hits bc they're not available every week, still collect that tag salary and then can get a new deal next year. If the team didnt pay them this year and ran them into the ground on the tag (liekly what every one of these teams would do). That shortens that RBs career and actually makes the pay day for them no different than if they nurse that hammy.

[32EBoozer]

7 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

not sure i agree with this.

i mean sure, the elite TEs should be paid.  but when JAG guys like will dissly and cj uzomah are getting $8MM (#15-16 in pay) and guys like mo allie-cox and ian thomas are making $5.8MM & $5.6MM (#24-25), while austin ekeler is playing for $6.1MM, that's crazy. 

Ekeler contract is insane value for Chargers. The guy is a TD machine and better than most #1 WR. Saquan is a similar type player & deserving of whatever he’s seeking 

[jgb]

double post 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, jetblue95 said:

it is kind of amazing that the franchise tag amount for a RB (just over $10MM) is equal to what the 31st highest paid WR is making this year.

i understand the dynamics of why this is the case, but it still seems shocking.  even odder to me is that TE and S are higher "value" positions, with tag amounts of $11.3MM & $14.5MM, respectively.

Think about this…Bijan Robinson… with no NFL snaps to his name… is a top 10 highest paid RB due to draft slot (#9 by AAV, #4 in amount of guarantees). There’s a decent chance he will never be paid more per year than his rookie deal in terms of cap percentage, regardless of how he performs.

Imagine if Bryce Young was the 9th-highest paid QB with the 4th-highest guaranteed amount before ever stepping on an NFL field…

Tl:dr Not only is paying RBs big money dumb, drafting them early is, also.

[slats]

21 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

not sure i agree with this.

i mean sure, the elite TEs should be paid.  but when JAG guys like will dissly and cj uzomah are getting $8MM (#15-16 in pay) and guys like mo allie-cox and ian thomas are making $5.8MM & $5.6MM (#24-25), while austin ekeler is playing for $6.1MM, that's crazy. 

RBs are cheap because they’re easily replaceable. That’s not changing. TEs are not as easily replaceable just by the nature of their size, and the top guys should be making top OL/WR money. WR is another position where I expect a compensation shift dividing them into stars and everyone else. Colleges are pushing out so many NFL ready receivers nowadays that it’s easy to replace your #2-5 guys with guys on rookie contracts every year. 
 
Second contracts are for future production and the problem at RB is that they rarely maintain their ability all the way thru a second deal. Sucks for them, but it is what it is. Short of making special rules for RBs, that’s not gonna change. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Larz said:

Barkley was offered 22 million over 2 years. It’s not QB money but if he takes home 12 million after taxes and invests 6 million in an annuity he’s looking at 26,000 a month for life. 
 

that’s why there will be no RB strike lol. 

Again, its all relative.  Daniel Jones is getting $40M a year to suck.  To Saquon, a # 2 overall pick who is the true centerpiece to the offense, $11M per is viewed as an insult.  And rightfully so.

Obviously no one is taking any threats of a RB strike seriously.  But you'd better believe this will be a hot button issue in the next CBA negotiations.  The question the NFLPA will be asking is what they'll have to give up to the owners in return to try to make their RBs happy.  

[Matt39]

13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Again, its all relative.  Daniel Jones is getting $40M a year to suck.  To Saquon, a # 2 overall pick who is the true centerpiece to the offense, $11M per is viewed as an insult.  And rightfully so.

Obviously no one is taking any threats of a RB strike seriously.  But you'd better believe this will be a hot button issue in the next CBA negotiations.  The question the NFLPA will be asking is what they'll have to give up to the owners in return to try to make their RBs happy.  

It’s purely supply and demand. There’s nothing that the NFLPA can do. If you try a special carve out those things just end up backfiring anyways. 

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

It’s purely supply and demand. There’s nothing that the NFLPA can do. If you try a special carve out those things just end up backfiring anyways. 

Only thing I can think of is shortening the length of the rookie deal for RBs.  2 years with a 3rd year option or something like that.  

But as you say that's a special carve out that would probably cause downstream issues I can't think of.  Like WRs declaring themselves as RBs coming out of school or something.

[Larz]

19 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Again, its all relative.  Daniel Jones is getting $40M a year to suck.  To Saquon, a # 2 overall pick who is the true centerpiece to the offense, $11M per is viewed as an insult.  And rightfully so.

Obviously no one is taking any threats of a RB strike seriously.  But you'd better believe this will be a hot button issue in the next CBA negotiations.  The question the NFLPA will be asking is what they'll have to give up to the owners in return to try to make their RBs happy.  

Again ?  I just got here pal. They can complain all they want but nothing will be done about it because we’re all going to forget about it in 2 weeks. RBs have the lowest franchise tag number except for kickers. That’s the market. That’s what NFL teams think of the position. That won’t change until they become more durable and reliable.  Titanium knees maybe ?  

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Only thing I can think of is shortening the length of the rookie deal for RBs.  2 years with a 3rd year option or something like that.  

But as you say that's a special carve out that would probably cause downstream issues I can't think of.  Like WRs declaring themselves as RBs coming out of school or something.

Owners will never allow that.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, slats said:

RB and Safety being down there make sense. They’re the most easily replaceable positions in the sport. Imho, it’s the TE position that’s due a huge bump in pay. These are not the average sized dudes that safeties and RBs are, these are guys 6’4”+ and 250lb+, expected to block like an OL and catch like a WR and, when they do, they still don’t get paid like either of those positions. It’s way out of whack. 

Injury risk is very high for TEs; these guys take a beating.  Kittle has missed 13 games over the last 4 years.  Waller has missed 13 over the last 2.  Pitts missed 7 last year.  Engram seems to miss a couple every year or at least has the dreaded "questionable" tag all the time.  

But yes, that # needs to improve dramatically.  Travis Kelce is essentially the 3rd or 4th best receiver in the league.  Andrews is basically the only receiver in Baltimore and has been for some time.  Etc etc.  

[Jetsfan80]

13 minutes ago, Larz said:

Again ?  I just got here pal. They can complain all they want but nothing will be done about it because we’re all going to forget about it in 2 weeks. RBs have the lowest franchise tag number except for kickers. That’s the market. That’s what NFL teams think of the position. That won’t change until they become more durable and reliable.  Titanium knees maybe ?  

Sorry, it was talked about a lot earlier in the thread.  And I don't even disagree with you here, nothing is likely to change. I'm just saying Saquon has a good reason to complain.  Just because Saquon is super rich by the world's standards doesn't mean he should be happy with whatever scraps he gets relative to other positions and less important teammates.  There's no world where it makes sense for a bottom 8 QB to be paid 4x as much as the most important piece on the offense but that's what the market dictates.

It is what it is, life isn't fair, and no one truly feels bad for these guys.  I just don't understand why people go out of their way to minimize these complaints.  They're legitimate.

[Maxman]

I'm surprised they didn't work out the two year deal. Glad they didn't since it's the Giants. But the franchise tag looms next year as well.

[Jetsfan80]

16 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Owners will never allow that.

Nope.  RBs are just f**ked. 

I imagine you'll start to see changes at the lower levels as a result.  HS/Collegiate RBs will be transitioned to QB, WR or even defensive players at every possible turn.  The RB position, outside of a couple special ones at any given time, will eventually just be filled with cheap JAGs across the league.  The more "special" athletes will be playing other positions for the most part.

[Joe W. Namath]

1 hour ago, 32EBoozer said:

Ekeler contract is insane value for Chargers. The guy is a TD machine and better than most #1 WR. Saquan is a similar type player & deserving of whatever he’s seeking 

Ekler is getting paid 6.1 million dollars to play football and he is whining?  HAHAHAHAHAHA.  This is so funny.

Poor running back being multimillionaires.  How awful for them.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Ekler is getting paid 6.1 million dollars to play football and he is whining?  HAHAHAHAHAHA.  This is so funny.

Poor running back being multimillionaires.  How awful for them.

You're just being a tool at this point. 

Maybe go find another topic to be obnoxiously wrong about, you've repeated this take numerous times in this one.

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

I'd like to see a "weapon tag" similar to OL. Let them lump in WR, TE, and RB together. That would all but eliminate the franchise tag for RBs, forcing new deals or pay an extreme premium for RB

I like that.  A "Skill Players Tag".  The NFL loves fantasy football more than ever so you could even call it a "Flex" Tag, lol.

[nycdan]

12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Injury risk is very high for TEs; these guys take a beating.  Kittle has missed 13 games over the last 4 years.  Waller has missed 13 over the last 2.  Pitts missed 7 last year.  Engram seems to miss a couple every year or at least has the dreaded "questionable" tag all the time.  

But yes, that # needs to improve dramatically.  Travis Kelce is essentially the 3rd or 4th best receiver in the league.  Andrews is basically the only receiver in Baltimore and has been for some time.  Etc etc.  

Kelce is a great one to look at.  He's making $11M this year and $12M next and he absolutely is a top-3 receiver in the league in terms of production, not even counting whatever blocking he does.  He could argue that he should be right up in the $20M/year zone with the top WRs and he wouldn't be wrong.

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Kelce is a great one to look at.  He's making $11M this year and $12M next and he absolutely is a top-3 receiver in the league in terms of production, not even counting whatever blocking he does.  He could argue that he should be right up in the $20M/year zone with the top WRs and he wouldn't be wrong.

I was thinking Jefferson-Kupp-Chase-Kelce as a top 4 but you're right that I may well be too low on him.

[nycdan]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I was thinking Jefferson-Kupp-Chase-Kelce as a top 4 but you're right that I may well be too low on him.

I'd replace Kupp with Adams for now and shake them up and roll them out.  Hard to argue any order.

[Fantasy Island]

Time for all the RBs in the league to go on strike.  Go without the game checks to show they mean business.

Bet that lasts 1 game.

[greenwichjetfan]

20 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Nope.  RBs are just f**ked. 

I imagine you'll start to see changes at the lower levels as a result.  HS/Collegiate RBs will be transitioned to QB, WR or even defensive players at every possible turn.  The RB position, outside of a couple special ones at any given time, will eventually just be filled with cheap JAGs across the league.  The more "special" athletes will be playing other positions for the most part.

Yep, it's exactly this. Fewer good RBs will be available if they're being transitioned to other positions at the grassroots level. This will impact the supply/demand curves and cause salaries to the truly great RBs to go up, and with that, the entire position's average salary will eventually ascend. 

Just like everything else - it's cyclical. Right now is just a terrible time for RBs to get paid. It'll correct over time, but that doesn't help the current guys. Definitely feel for a guy like Saquan in this situation. 

[bla bla bla]

3 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

Time for all the RBs in the league to go on strike.  Go without the game checks to show they mean business.

Bet that lasts 1 game.

Average career is 3 years, NFL holds all the power knowing a lock out can't happen on the players side. Too many players practice squad/backups that need to get paid. It's why the NFLPA is the weakest of all the player unions.

[32EBoozer]

23 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Ekler is getting paid 6.1 million dollars to play football and he is whining?  HAHAHAHAHAHA.  This is so funny.

Poor running back being multimillionaires.  How awful for them.

If you were being paid less than someone who contributes much less at work than you, I’m sure this BS you’re spewing would be replaced by anger at management.

[Matt39]

Things evolve. I really don’t see the value in dissecting this too much. Supply and demand is undefeated. Remember the guy who played for the Jets who turned down a contact to become a LIRR conductor? That’s the only way you’re getting lifetime job security. I doubt Saqon would consider it.

[Fantasy Island]

Matt and Trey saw this coming........ 25 years ago.

 

[Larz]

 

[32EBoozer]

2 minutes ago, Larz said:

 

Pretty compelling stats.

Wish he’d do the same for WR & TE

Edited July 18, 2023 by 32EBoozer

[playtowinthegame]

Fingers crossed the Giants rescind their unsigned franchise tag on Barkley, and go after Cook.

J E T S JETS JETS JETS

Signed,

Alibay Barkley

[32EBoozer]

33 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Fingers crossed the Giants rescind their unsigned franchise tag on Barkley, and go after Cook.

J E T S JETS JETS JETS

Signed,

Alibay Barkley

I would love to have Barkley on this team, but our financial commitment to AR + Hall’s potential and cheap contract make it unlikely. 
 

Izzy’s development will be crucial in resupplying the pipeline when injuries happen. Next man up!