Props to Wilson

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

don't underestimate the effect the rain had.  you have to believe saleh/hackett were in ZW's ear constantly saying, look, don't make any stupid throws today, one dumb throw could decide this crappy game.  

IMO, Hackett spent all summer trying to get Zach to focus on the short game and that’s continued into the season where they want to play ball control. The good news: Zach is much improved in the short game! The bad news is that he’s stopped looking downfield. 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

IMO, Hackett spent all summer trying to get Zach to focus on the short game and that’s continued into the season where they want to play ball control. The good news: Zach is much improved in the short game! The bad news is that he’s stopped looking downfield. 

Blaming the coach now too? 

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, T0mShane said:

IMO, Hackett spent all summer trying to get Zach to focus on the short game and that’s continued into the season where they want to play ball control. The good news: Zach is much improved in the short game! The bad news is that he’s stopped looking downfield. 

This makes his time to throw, sacks taken and fumbles all the more unforgivable.  Dude can’t even check down properly when his sole focus is the short game.

If he was holding the ball too long because he’s looking to make plays deep that would be a lot more forgivable.  Since we know that isn’t the case…it really requires a lot of mental gymnastics to defend that out of a 3rd year QB.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

IMO, Hackett spent all summer trying to get Zach to focus on the short game and that’s continued into the season where they want to play ball control. The good news: Zach is much improved in the short game! The bad news is that he’s stopped looking downfield. 

very true.  and it just goes to show you what matters more to win and compete in games.  and why teams keep making drafting mistakes being seduced by strong arms.  take the qbs who can make the 5-15 yard throws quickly and consistently.  and don't make too many stupid throws.  

[T0mShane]

Just now, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Blaming the coach now too? 

 

 

My guess as Zach’s toughness? I don’t think he’s a guy who’s afraid of being hit necessarily, but I believe—because of his size—he has some of that Madden brain where any contact with a defensive player results in the end of the play, so he gets sped up. He’s not just trying to beat the sack, his brain is rushing to beat the muddy pocket, which is impossible and why he melts down in-play when his first read gets choked off.  

[Augustiniak]

Just now, T0mShane said:

My guess as Zach’s toughness? I don’t think he’s a guy who’s afraid of being hit necessarily, but I believe—because of his size—he has some of that Madden brain where any contact with a defensive player results in the end of the play, so he gets sped up. He’s not just trying to beat the sack, his brain is rushing to beat the muddy pocket, which is impossible and why he melts down in-play when his first read gets choked off.  

you can tell when ZW has no faith in the OL and his footwork shows it and that's when he starts running towards his end zone

[The Crusher]

26 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The haters are coming around.  The Zach vindication tour is working on decorations and a menu.  

Menu? In!!

[Smashmouth]

On 10/8/2023 at 6:40 PM, Ghost said:

• He did not play as good as he did last week but he played better than his usual self. I know that’s not saying much but with Breece Hall and our defense, we do not need to throw 3 touchdowns a game. 

• He made very important throws to Wilson and Conklin that kept the chains moving. 

• The INT was his fault. He should’ve been in a position where only Garrett Wilson can catch it. This is something he will learn from. I’m starting to slowly believe in this kid! 

Did you say chains moving ?? 

[Jetluv58]

On 10/8/2023 at 7:51 PM, David Harris said:

We survive Zach Wilson games

If AR didn’t go down this team would be scary

But he did, and your backup is 4-3. 

[Jetluv58]

On 10/8/2023 at 7:53 PM, Darnold's Forehead said:

Zach was not good and you people need to stop pretending otherwise.  I thought this was the start of Zach's "revenge tour"?  That's what I heard all week, and all I saw this game was field goals and 3 for 12 on 3rd downs because of sacks and ridiculous checkdowns.  Remember how he completely wasted points checking it down before the half?  That's what he did against NE on 4th down.  Anyone remember?  Or do we just continue the gaslighting by saying "Zach did what he had to do to win" BS.

Trevor Siemien would have done better than 6 points in the first half, 22 points total against a historically bad defense.  Zach can only checkdown and hit WIDE open receivers on rollouts.  Just because we won against a terrible opponent today doesn't mean the struggles won't continue.

W.     3rd in a row for Zach.  

[Smashmouth]

31 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

My guess as Zach’s toughness? I don’t think he’s a guy who’s afraid of being hit necessarily, but I believe—because of his size—he has some of that Madden brain where any contact with a defensive player results in the end of the play, so he gets sped up. He’s not just trying to beat the sack, his brain is rushing to beat the muddy pocket, which is impossible and why he melts down in-play when his first read gets choked off.  

The reason Zach does not see the field is partially contrary to what you say here. I'm of the opinion that Zach does play afraid of the rush and that keeps him from seeing the field because he's too worried about getting hit or blindsided so he takes his eyes off he WR's and looks at the rush. If he was constantly looking down field I have a hard time believing he would not see the open WR's he seems to be missing at an alarming rate.

I noticed the Announcers in the Giants game saying his WR's were covered and in almost every instance they said that a Jet WR, had at the very least, a step on the defender. In this case I also feel Zach plays scared and does not trust his own ability. If a WR has a step, and they almost always do, all you have to do is simply lead that WR . Yes you have a smaller window but that smaller window is what the NFL is all about Its why most QB's do not make the college to pro transition because in College you usually have guys running wide open in about 8 of the 11-12 games you actually play.

So Zach based on what I said above does not have any feel for the pocket at all, its terrible, and I think these two things are what ruins him as a QB because it's certainly not his ability, because he has immense talent. If Zach learns how to not play scared and he starts to trust his ability he will certainly turn the corner but those negative traits are ingrained in his head and the mental issues at the QB position are much harder to overcome than the physical ones.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Smashmouth said:

The reason Zach does not see the field is partially contrary to what you say here. I'm of the opinion that Zach does play afraid of the rush and that keeps him from seeing the field because he's too worried about getting hit or blindsided so he takes his eyes off he WR's and looks at the rush. If he was constantly looking down field I have a hard time believing he would not see the open WR's he seems to be missing at an alarming rate.

I noticed the Announcers in the Giants game saying his WR were covered and in almost every instance they said that a Jet WR had at the very least a step on the defender. In this case I also feel Zach plays scared and does not trust his own ability. If a WR has a step and they almost always do all you have to do is simply lead that WR . Yes you have a smaller window but that smaller window is what the NFL is all about Its why most QB's do not make the college to pro transition because in College you usually have guys running wide open in about 8 of the 11-12 games you actually play.

So Zach based on what I said above does not have any feel for the pocket at all its terrible and I think these two things are what ruins him as a QB because it's certainly not his ability of which he has immense talent. If Zach learns how to not play scared and he starts to trust his ability he will certainly turn the corner but those negative traits are ingrained in his head and the mental issues at the QB position are much harder to overcome that the physical ones.

this is what happens when you throw so many ints and you don't trust your ability to throw into those tighter windows

[Hex]

3 hours ago, Ghost said:

But this is all Zach Wilson’s fault. 

Even the ref is running at him!

[Hex]

5 minutes ago, Jetluv58 said:

But he did, and your backup is 4-3. 

Actually, if you're going to use a crappy metric like QBrecord, use it right. Zach Wilson is 3-3.

[Smashmouth]

3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

this is what happens when you throw so many ints and you don't trust your ability to throw into those tighter windows

In a sense yes but its also why he does not throw a lot of Int's because he just will not make those throws. People who say Zach is improving because he throws less Int's are not looking at the root problem

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

The reason Zach does not see the field is partially contrary to what you say here. I'm of the opinion that Zach does play afraid of the rush and that keeps him from seeing the field because he's too worried about getting hit or blindsided so he takes his eyes off he WR's and looks at the rush. If he was constantly looking down field I have a hard time believing he would not see the open WR's he seems to be missing at an alarming rate.

I noticed the Announcers in the Giants game saying his WR's were covered and in almost every instance they said that a Jet WR, had at the very least, a step on the defender. In this case I also feel Zach plays scared and does not trust his own ability. If a WR has a step, and they almost always do, all you have to do is simply lead that WR . Yes you have a smaller window but that smaller window is what the NFL is all about Its why most QB's do not make the college to pro transition because in College you usually have guys running wide open in about 8 of the 11-12 games you actually play.

So Zach based on what I said above does not have any feel for the pocket at all, its terrible, and I think these two things are what ruins him as a QB because it's certainly not his ability, because he has immense talent. If Zach learns how to not play scared and he starts to trust his ability he will certainly turn the corner but those negative traits are ingrained in his head and the mental issues at the QB position are much harder to overcome than the physical ones.

I think it’s a small distinction but his response to the rush is similar to his response to passing windows/opportunities. He lacks an intuitive feel for the sport and everything that happens after the snap comes as a unique surprise to him, so he needs a beat to process it. In the NFL, that hesitation is the difference between being a good QB and being a catastrophic draft bust. I’d imagine Hackett is hopeful that Zach can eventually synthesize all the requisite information and supplement his lack of instincts with a rote understanding of how to play QB, but that kind of learning normally happens between Pop Warner and your junior year of high school.

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

In a sense yes but its also why he does not throw a lot of Int's because he just will not make those throws. People who say Zach is improving because he throws less Int's are not looking at the root problem

true, but the sad reality is that the root problem is not fixable.  they've convinced him not to make the worst throws, and that's why they're in games.  but he still lacks the instincts necessary to make the leap to an average qb.  he's at his best when he's not thinking and he can just ball, which is good sometimes but not all the time.  while it would help if they incorporated an up tempo game with some series he's just not a cerebral qb

[TuscanyTile2]

15 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

The reason Zach does not see the field is partially contrary to what you say here. I'm of the opinion that Zach does play afraid of the rush and that keeps him from seeing the field because he's too worried about getting hit or blindsided so he takes his eyes off he WR's and looks at the rush. If he was constantly looking down field I have a hard time believing he would not see the open WR's he seems to be missing at an alarming rate.

I noticed the Announcers in the Giants game saying his WR's were covered and in almost every instance they said that a Jet WR, had at the very least, a step on the defender. In this case I also feel Zach plays scared and does not trust his own ability. If a WR has a step, and they almost always do, all you have to do is simply lead that WR . Yes you have a smaller window but that smaller window is what the NFL is all about Its why most QB's do not make the college to pro transition because in College you usually have guys running wide open in about 8 of the 11-12 games you actually play.

So Zach based on what I said above does not have any feel for the pocket at all, its terrible, and I think these two things are what ruins him as a QB because it's certainly not his ability, because he has immense talent. If Zach learns how to not play scared and he starts to trust his ability he will certainly turn the corner but those negative traits are ingrained in his head and the mental issues at the QB position are much harder to overcome than the physical ones.

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think it’s a small distinction but his response to the rush is similar to his response to passing windows/opportunities. He lacks an intuitive feel for the sport and everything that happens after the snap comes as a unique surprise to him, so he needs a beat to process it. In the NFL, that hesitation is the difference between being a good QB and being a catastrophic draft bust. I’d imagine Hackett is hopeful that Zach can eventually synthesize all the requisite information and supplement his lack of instincts with a rote understanding of how to play QB, but that kind of learning normally happens between Pop Warner and your junior year of high school.

I want to add that he has only 1 WR.  So if GW is covered, ZW might be holding onto the ball hoping for something to open up and that's why he holds on to the ball too long and takes sacks. 

But that's just speculation on my part.

 

[Smashmouth]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I want to add that he has only 1 WR.  So if GW is covered, ZW might be holding onto the ball hoping for something to open up and that's why he holds on to the ball too long and takes sacks. 

But that's just speculation on my part.

 

He does not only have one WR he has capable players across the offense he's not getting them the ball.

[Hex]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think it’s a small distinction but his response to the rush is similar to his response to passing windows/opportunities. He lacks an intuitive feel for the sport and everything that happens after the snap comes as a unique surprise to him, so he needs a beat to process it. In the NFL, that hesitation is the difference between being a good QB and being a catastrophic draft bust. I’d imagine Hackett is hopeful that Zach can eventually synthesize all the requisite information and supplement his lack of instincts with a rote understanding of how to play QB, but that kind of learning normally happens between Pop Warner and your junior year of high school.

I guess it's like driving a car. on the road, that hesitation is the difference between being a good driver and causing a catastrophic collision. If you don't have a feel for the traffic around you, that's bad. In a similar way, that kind of learning normally happens between the sophomore year of high school and reaching the legal drinking age.

[Smashmouth]

5 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

true, but the sad reality is that the root problem is not fixable.  they've convinced him not to make the worst throws, and that's why they're in games.  but he still lacks the instincts necessary to make the leap to an average qb.  he's at his best when he's not thinking and he can just ball, which is good sometimes but not all the time.  while it would help if they incorporated an up tempo game with some series he's just not a cerebral qb

Also a lot of this is on the coaching if what your saying here is actually happening. My take on the gun slinger mentality is if you have a good enough defense to over come a few turnovers, which we do, then unleash the damn kid and see what ya get.  Maybe some encouragement at this point would help rather than encouraging the lack of mistakes due to conservative play.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

He does not only have one WR he has capable players across the offense he's not getting them the ball.

GW, Breece, Conklin and Lazard are our most capable players.  

GW had 7 for 100 and Breece 6 for 76 (50 on 1 play).  Lazard kind of stunk but had 3 for 45.  Maybe Conklin had a bad game.  

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Also a lot of this is on the coaching if what your saying here is actually happening. My take on the gun slinger mentality is if you have a good enough defense to over come a few turnovers, which we do, then unleash the damn kid and see what ya get.  Maybe some encouragement at this point would help rather than encouraging the lack of mistakes due to conservative play.

Couldn't agree more.  Not saying he should be a complete gunslinger but let him throw downfield a little bit at least.  It's still very interesting that JD traded away Mecole, who could've potentially helped in some way.  But I did hear a rumor that he kind of stopped trying as much when AR8 went down.

[Smashmouth]

Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

GW, Breece, Conklin and Lazard are our most capable players.  

GW had 7 for 100 and Breece 6 for 76 (50 on 1 play).  Lazard kind of stunk but had 3 for 45.  Maybe Conklin had a bad game.  

Or maybe Zach just does not get them the ball ....when you throwing at a 45% completion rating for a game its hard to blame the guys your throwing too. Just look at the targets of the guys on the bottom

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Also a lot of this is on the coaching if what your saying here is actually happening. My take on the gun slinger mentality is if you have a good enough defense to over come a few turnovers, which we do, then unleash the damn kid and see what ya get.  Maybe some encouragement at this point would help rather than encouraging the lack of mistakes due to conservative play.

my take on the gunslinger mentality is that if you throw picks, you also have to throw td passes.  wilson can't offset his picks.  also you need a head coach who is willing to embrace that playing philosophy and saleh clearly wants to win with defense/ST/running game

[TuscanyTile2]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

my take on the gunslinger mentality is that if you throw picks, you also have to throw td passes.  wilson can't offset his picks.  also you need a head coach who is willing to embrace that playing philosophy and saleh clearly wants to win with defense/ST/running game

This is a very good point.  Jameis Winston is the ultimate gunslinger.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

This is a very good point.  Jameis Winston is the ultimate gunslinger.

guys like elway, farve, you know, hall of famers....but seriously, yeah, if you throw 3 tds and 3 picks at least that's 21 points.  you are competitive.  

[Smashmouth]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Couldn't agree more.  Not saying he should be a complete gunslinger but let him throw downfield a little bit at least.  It's still very interesting that JD traded away Mecole, who could've potentially helped in some way.  But I did hear a rumor that he kind of stopped trying as much when AR8 went down.

And unfortunately there is another underlying problem of playing with a bad QB. Route after route after route and you see 1 target or no target at all and when finally do get targeted its a bad pass or when your wide open your QB is running backwards. Im sure thats frustrating

[Biggs]

56 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Menu? In!!

There’s a spot on the menu committee held for you.   We’re holding a spot for Tom on decorations.

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, Biggs said:

There’s a spot on the menu committee held for you.   We’re holding a spot for Tom on decorations.

Thanks Biggs! But after T0m's selection for Jets Captain cost us Rodgers after four plays you may want to send someone with him or the place might end up like...

[Flea Flicking Frank]

 

 

52 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

In a sense yes but its also why he does not throw a lot of Int's because he just will not make those throws. People who say Zach is improving because he throws less Int's are not looking at the root problem

I don't think that is at all why people say hes improving. I think people say hes improving becasue he is. I will grant all the nitwits that he is improving from an incredibly low level, and is nowhere near where he needs to be, but he is improving, and nobody can say how much more he can and will improve, even the nitwit crew.

He is improving in multiple ways, number 1, his footwork and mechanics are clearly better than they were last year. Very important

2) He comes off his first read way better than last year

3) he very rarely is running backwards which was ridiculous, but hes not doing it much and when he does hes more frequently getting rid of it or actually turning into a positive play

4) his short pass accuracy is way better than it was last year, this was a major problem, outside of one dirt ball which slipped from his hand in a rain storm, his short pass accuracy is way better

5) he is using his eyes to hold safeties at times, he has done this multiple times this year and never did it before.

Saying he has not improves is pure BS, you want to say not enough, its your right, but when you make stupid arguments like this, its hard to take you seriously at all, like the rest of the nitwit crew

[HighPitch]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This makes his time to throw, sacks taken and fumbles all the more unforgivable.  Dude can’t even check down properly when his sole focus is the short game.

If he was holding the ball too long because he’s looking to make plays deep that would be a lot more forgivable.  Since we know that isn’t the case…it really requires a lot of mental gymnastics to defend that out of a 3rd year QB.

when can you be quiet and stop repeating yourself over and over and over and over and over and over

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

The reason Zach does not see the field is partially contrary to what you say here. I'm of the opinion that Zach does play afraid of the rush and that keeps him from seeing the field because he's too worried about getting hit or blindsided so he takes his eyes off he WR's and looks at the rush. If he was constantly looking down field I have a hard time believing he would not see the open WR's he seems to be missing at an alarming rate.

I noticed the Announcers in the Giants game saying his WR's were covered and in almost every instance they said that a Jet WR, had at the very least, a step on the defender. In this case I also feel Zach plays scared and does not trust his own ability. If a WR has a step, and they almost always do, all you have to do is simply lead that WR . Yes you have a smaller window but that smaller window is what the NFL is all about Its why most QB's do not make the college to pro transition because in College you usually have guys running wide open in about 8 of the 11-12 games you actually play.

So Zach based on what I said above does not have any feel for the pocket at all, its terrible, and I think these two things are what ruins him as a QB because it's certainly not his ability, because he has immense talent. If Zach learns how to not play scared and he starts to trust his ability he will certainly turn the corner but those negative traits are ingrained in his head and the mental issues at the QB position are much harder to overcome than the physical ones.

what you say is partially true, but in order to lead a receiver, you need to be able to plant your feet and drive a throw. At the rate he is being pressured, its easy to say it, and much harder to execute that, even for a seasoned vet. Im not saying there arent times when he could have made a play he didnt, there 100% are opportunities. But you are way oversimplifying it.

He IS stepping up in the pocket more this year and delivering throws while being hit way more than ever before. Last year I thought he was afraid to get hit and that is a death nail for a QB. This year he is not afraid to get hit and is delivering balls when being hit. Again, progress, maybe not enough, but it is progress.

 

[Warfish]

35 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

And unfortunately there is another underlying problem of playing with a bad QB. Route after route after route and you see 1 target or no target at all and when finally do get targeted its a bad pass or when your wide open your QB is running backwards. Im sure thats frustrating

It's an aspect of so many of the "drops" that folks choose to ignore: 

Most of the drops (not all) are also inaccurate, off-target passes, behind the receiver, too high, too low, too late, allowing defenders to get their hands in there, etc. 

Doesn't excuse the WR in question, if it hits both their hands, you should catch it, that's what they're paid for. 

But a drop also doesn't necessarily forgive the QB their role in making that drop happen either.

[JoeFan]

He stepped up in the pocket on the drop by Lazard on the left sideline. That ‘s the play when you can see G. Wilson throw his hands up in disgust.