I Was Wrong ...

[JiFtheOracle]

3 minutes ago, KRL said:

Great find by @jetstream23 to show Wilson's mental growth:

 

Him recognizing man coverage on his best player, shouldnt be mental growth, it should be common sense.  Meanwhile,  he checked down w/ the game on line vs. NE and talked about how stupid that was in the press conference and how he has to learn from it, and then on Sunday, he did worse by taking a sack w/ the game on the line.

 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

I really believe he’s gone next year.  I’m assuming either the jets don’t make the playoffs or eke in luckily and don’t win a game.  I’m predicting (go figure) OL in round 1 and a qb in round 3 to develop.  Also predict they sign a veteran qb to back up rodgers who doesn’t suck.  

I sincerely hope you’re right but there’s been no evidence yet to suggest JD is anywhere close to ready to cut Zach loose.  

[Matt39]

7 minutes ago, Anthony Jet said:

Agreed, but watch the clip. Hes not wrong in any of those, and the throws he did make were not easy ones. But then you go back the feeling during the game and it’s like the Jets offense is playing in quicksand and everything about the offense is a difficult to watch and he’s the straw stirring the drink. 

Every QB makes throws. The throw to Lazard that was dropped Stafford makes a few times a game. Wilson is a good athlete and can make impressive throws he just has no idea what he’s doing on the field. There’s a reason the overall body of work is what it is. He’s thrown 5 touchdowns in 7 games. And we’re being kind giving him credit for the Breece Hall catch and run.

[UntouchableCrew]

25 minutes ago, Jetfuel66 said:

I agree with a LOT of what you said here, especially the way we ruined Darnold.

Couple of side points.. The team was devoid of talent in Zachs first year. Douglas had just gutted the team and they were BAD, Especially the defense.

The defense was atrocious Zach's rookie year, but that should help his stats not hurt them. Getting to play teams who have a big lead and pad your stats is a great opportunity for low pressure reps.

I don't buy that the offensive talent was that bad Zach's rookie year. Worse than now, but there were enough guys that could play that Mike White could pass for 400 yards. 

25 minutes ago, Jetfuel66 said:

Darnold played at USC , a huge program and Zach played at BYU against much inferior talent and opposing stadium atmosphere. He also played his last year during Covid with no one in the stands. I don't think Zach should have played his first year in the NFL. Its obvious he wasn't mature enough or ready. I also think MLF saw this and wasn't happy about playing him. Strained the relationship. I believe that is why when White and Johnson played in his place they looked so much better, and the offense did as well.

I think it's fair to say Zach should have sat. I also think it's fair to say he shouldn't have been drafted 2nd overall.

25 minutes ago, Jetfuel66 said:

Zach definitely regressed last year, Undeniable.

But this season he seems to have matured, both physically as a young man and as a QB. I know it sucks that he didn't come out and light it up like some other rookie QB's but those guys are rare. 

This is part of the issue -- its not really rare. Guys do it every year. Look at CJ Stroud. He's not some generational prospect or some guy anyone thinks is going to be a top 5 QB in the league. He's lighting it up.

25 minutes ago, Jetfuel66 said:

We are here now. The first two seasons are done and we need to start to analyze Zachs play starting THIS year. Zach is trending up, and I am hopeful that he can put it all together,

 

Time will tell.

I just don't buy the idea that time will tell. His "improvements" are so miniscule and his overall performance so poor in year three that it seems like a virtual certainty he'll never amount to anything. There's just no sample size of guys like him ever going on to do anything.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, bonkertons said:

then looked like absolute basura against a defense that gave up 70(in his defense, so did Mahomes a couple days ago).

They gave up 70 and since then look like the Broncos D we expected to see.  They gave up 28, 31 to the Jets, 19 to the Chiefs, 17 to GB and then 9 against the Chiefs in their 2nd matchup.  
Far from a horror of a game vs the Broncos some imagine.  Mahomes Sunday was turning the ball over, missing passes into the dirt.  They can play D

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I sincerely hope you’re right but there’s been no evidence yet to suggest JD is anywhere close to ready to cut Zach loose.  

They’re going to have to decline his option, and also they must know what they have.  Levis threw 4 tds in his first game.  They hoped to hide Wilson all year and then probably trade him, but he has little trade value.  I can’t see them going into next year with this same qb situation.  Unless there’s an implosion this year, it seems unlikely they take a qb in round 1 now, but OL seems very likely.  

[THE BARON]

2 hours ago, Anthony Jet said:

The mental gymnastics with this kid is crazy. I don’t know what I think anymore honestly. He looked like sh*t those whole game in my eyes. Then he throws a laser on the run to set up the game tying FG. The throw was a thing of beauty. Now days later everyone giving him a pass for what I thought my eyes saw. 
 

I’ve said it before, but I really hate his god given arm talent , becuase it’s there and it’s amazing, unfortunately that’s the only thing he’s got a QB needs that’s even remotely adequate 

He's also got mobility and excellent flat out speed.  He has everything BUT... Ability to make a pre-snap read and subsequent post snap read and process it all *QUICKLY* and correctly and deliver the ball on schedule to the best option.  It is all mental.  He still lapses into his old college sprint out QB mentality where he can do it all by the seat of his pants. He has made progress, but thus far has not put it all together.  

A good NFL QB starts throwing the ball to the right place in his mind before his arm is cocked.  Wilson is not doing that.  He aims the ball way too often and only after holding on to it too long.  

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Every QB makes throws. The throw to Lazard that was dropped Stafford makes a few times a game. Wilson is a good athlete and can make impressive throws he just had no idea what he’s doing on the field. 

The problem is, why isn’t he doing that in the first halves of games?  It always seems the entire offense sleepwalks through the first half and only starts waking up in the 4th quarter.  If Wilson needs to play at a quick tempo, then start the game off like that.  

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Every QB makes throws. The throw to Lazard that was dropped Stafford makes a few times a game. Wilson is a good athlete and can make impressive throws he just has no idea what he’s doing on the field. There’s a reason the overall body of work is what it is. He’s thrown 5 touchdowns in 7 games. And we’re being kind giving him credit for the Breece Hall catch and run.

And the Garrett Wilson circus catch against Buffalo too, for that matter.

[FidelioJet]

58 minutes ago, JiF said:

Jeeeez, I wonder what point I'm trying to make...

I guess it’s something like because they played well early last year and folded at all he end.
We shouldn’t be happy that the team is on a 3 game winning streak and playing well.  

[Warfish]

19 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

They’re going to have to decline his option, and also they must know what they have.

That will be the REAL test of how JD and the Org. feels about Zach.

If they decline the option, it's unlikely they see him as a future starter or future NY Jet.

If they take up the option, it's far more likely they still believe in Zach and his future.

A lot of season left for Zach to show who and what he is, beyond what he's already shown the past two and half seasons.  

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And the Garrett Wilson circus catch against Buffalo too, for that matter.

To be fair, players make great plays around the league all the time.  When aj brown does it they don’t criticize hurts.  

[HighPitch]

Im gonna respond to this:

 

I know a lot of the ZACH HATERSZ on this board think I am a Zach lover, but I am not. I do NOT think he is very good. I DOUBT that he can become elite. However, I am NOT sure that I am right about my feelings for him. 

When I gush about a sloppy win, it does not mean that I think zach is the man. I am just happy for any win. So on this board we have zach haters hating on those than dont hate zach. Thats really what is boils down to. 

Is there really a poster on this board that LOVES zach and thinks he is going to be GREAT????? who????

 

BUT heres the deal with zach.........No matter what, the kid is NOT TURNING THE BALL OVER. Thats huge! Also, no matter what, he is making  HUGE plays in crunch time. Thats also HUGE! Take into account that unlike last year, he is not missing targets anymore. Thats a HUGE improvement. Last year it seemed there was always 3-2 dirt balls on 4 yard attemps and 2-3 that sail way over a wrs head. NO MORE! Lets not forget that hue is playing on an AWFUL O line and only has garret wilson and 20 as playmakers. There are no other O weapons. 

 

Another thing about zach.... he is TOUGH. This kid is still walking after 7 games. amazing!

 

In many ways right now zach is a unicorn. He cant move the ball much, he is not great in the red zone, but he is tough, does not turn it over and wins games in the end. REALLY really odd. 100% unicorn. Thanks god for our defense

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

This is part of the issue -- its not really rare. Guys do it every year. Look at CJ Stroud.

 Before Stroud?  Burrow?  Before Burrow?  Cam? Luck?  Marino?  
It’s not every year, it’s really rare.  

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

To be fair, players make great plays around the league all the time.  When aj brown does it they don’t criticize hurts.  

Sure but again, even with the Garrett and Breece plays he only has 5 passing TDs.  He doesn’t exactly deserve the kind of benefit of the doubt that Hurts has earned. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Warfish said:

That will be the REAL test of how JD and the Org. feels about Zach.

If they decline the option, it's unlikely they see him as a future starter or future NY Jet.

If the take up the option, it's far more likely they still believe in Zach and his future.

A lot of season left for Zach to show who and what he is, beyond what he's already shown the past two and half seasons.  

Assuming they don’t make the playoffs, it’s hard to keep him.  But looking at the afc, let’s assume Miami wins the division, along with Jax, kc and cincy or Baltimore.  The 3 wildcards will be either cincy or Baltimore for starters.  That leaves 2 teams.  Let’s also assume the bills get a wc.  Now we’re down to that last wc spot.  The jets are in contention for this, along with the chargers (huge game) and few other really average teams.  If the jets can’t get this spot with this remaining schedule, then I can’t see them keeping Wilson b/c you know he can’t do it.  I’d rather draft a qb like mike Pratt in the 3rd round and bring in a vet behind rodgers. 

[T0mShane]

39 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

I see what these breakdown videos are saying but I’m going to stand by until we get a 300 yard, 3 TD performance from him before I get any type of excited about his progress

Not everyone can be Will Levis. 

[Claymation]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

We're at a point where many fans are unwilling to consider context.  They look at the box score, or when they watch the game all they do is follow the ball.  This ends with any explanation for why a guy struggled being called and "excuse" when in reality it's a valid reason.

 

There were plenty of reasons why the offense was poor the other day.

 

Was Zach part of the reason?  Certainly.

 

Was he the only reason? Far from it.

 

OL sucked, receivers dropped at least five balls, zero running game and weather was horrendous.

Most QBs would fail to move the ball under those circumstances 

 

 

This is how I feel.

[Matt39]

8 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

The problem is, why isn’t he doing that in the first halves of games?  It always seems the entire offense sleepwalks through the first half and only starts waking up in the 4th quarter.  If Wilson needs to play at a quick tempo, then start the game off like that.  

You can’t artificially make things quick tempo. The Giants played prevent for whatever reason and the Jets got a gift with KT jumping offsides. The offense still almost botched it with Wilson and Lazard not knowing the situation.

[UntouchableCrew]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

 Before Stroud?  Burrow?  Before Burrow?  Cam? Luck?  Marino?  
It’s not every year, it’s really rare.  

Let's lower the standard here -- something we do in spades for Zach.

Look at someone like Anthony Richardson. He came in, looked the part, and instantly led an offense that was scoring points. He looked good. He was moving the ball.

Let's just talk eye test here, since I don't need 3 TDs, 300 yards etc. Has Zach ever looked the part? Has he ever looked confident and capable and in command of the offense over for more than one or two drives a game? 

"I hope we don't go three and out" is my thought at the beginning of every drive.

I honestly feel like a lot of Jets fans just don't watch other NFL football games and understand what a real QB looks like, or what a good offense looks like. Some teams expect to score every time they have the ball. We hope to flip the field and avoid an embarrassing turnover.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Matt39 said:

You can’t artificially make things quick tempo. The Giants played prevent for whatever reason and the Jets got a gift with KT jumping offsides. The offense still almost botched it with Wilson and Lazard not knowing the situation.

You can go no huddle, not wait until the play clock is at 1, call plays that don’t require him to read defenses that he can’t read.  The last thing you want ZW doing is pretending he’s Peyton.  

[section314]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Not everyone can be Will Levis. 

Yes, the second coming of Browning Nagle. 😁Seems like only yesterday.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, section314 said:

Yes, the second coming of Browning Nagle. 😁Seems like only yesterday.

Browning Nagle > Zach Wilson

[Matt39]

7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 Before Stroud?  Burrow?  Before Burrow?  Cam? Luck?  Marino?  
It’s not every year, it’s really rare.  

Uhh no

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Let's lower the standard here -- something we do in spades for Zach.

Look at someone like Anthony Richardson. He came in, looked the part, and instantly led an offense that was scoring points. He looked good. He was moving the ball.

Let's just talk eye test here, since I don't need 3 TDs, 300 yards etc. Has Zach ever looked the part? Has he ever looked confident and capable and in command of the offense over for more than one or two drives a game? 

"I hope we don't go three and out" is my thought at the beginning of every drive.

I honestly feel like a lot of Jets fans just don't watch other NFL football games and understand what a real QB looks like, or what a good offense looks like. Some teams expect to score every time they have the ball. We hope to flip the field and avoid an embarrassing turnover.

Baker Mayfields rookie season would be a hall of fame season for Wilson.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

3 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Thank you…..

I have watched the game 3 times and Wilson threw about 2 or 3 “bad” balls, didn’t hit the potentially open WR about another 2, held onto the ball too long multiple times and the stupid stupid sack on 4th Down Was OUTRAGEOUS!!!!

GOOD GRIEF!! 

However, with that said, Zach wasn’t horrible.

Simple, Zach was under crazy stress all game and the defense of the Giants was something I was worried about waaaaay before the game.  

And the OL was being terrorized out there and the injuries to centers didn’t just “happen” they were caused in part due to bad technique against a crazy bull rush.

I wouldn’t say Zach was great, no way, but the hang em crowd isn’t right either….

Zach is getting better and I will say it again no NFL QB is going to perform well with a porous OL for long…

Its hard how anyone with even a shred of objectivity doesnt see exactly what you posted here. Great post

[Matt39]

6 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

You can go no huddle, not wait until the play clock is at 1, call plays that don’t require him to read defenses that he can’t read.  The last thing you want ZW doing is pretending he’s Peyton.  

No huddle for Wilson just leads to quicker punts

[Flea Flicking Frank]

12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Sure but again, even with the Garrett and Breece plays he only has 5 passing TDs.  He doesn’t exactly deserve the kind of benefit of the doubt that Hurts has earned. 

I don't even know why I am going to do this, but lets try to have some real football talk, can we?

Do you honestly not see how the coaching and the game plan is forcing this? I know your argument, its that they dont trust him so they have to play like that, but that is completely irrelevent. They are playing him.

Even soeone with your level of hatred and emotion must see how conservative the playcalling is and the emphasis is on not making mistakes. 

Do you honestly think if they oepend it up he wouldnt have a lot more TD's?

It would of course come with a lot more turnovers and msitakes, but this nonsense about how many TD's is just pure lack of observation of how the offense is playing football. Do you honestly not see that?

[Creepy Lurker]

15 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

Im gonna respond to this:

 

I know a lot of the ZACH HATERSZ on this board think I am a Zach lover, but I am not. I do NOT think he is very good. I DOUBT that he can become elite. However, I am NOT sure that I am right about my feelings for him. 

When I gush about a sloppy win, it does not mean that I think zach is the man. I am just happy for any win. So on this board we have zach haters hating on those than dont hate zach. Thats really what is boils down to. 

Is there really a poster on this board that LOVES zach and thinks he is going to be GREAT????? who????

 

BUT heres the deal with zach.........No matter what, the kid is NOT TURNING THE BALL OVER. Thats huge! Also, no matter what, he is making  HUGE plays in crunch time. Thats also HUGE! Take into account that unlike last year, he is not missing targets anymore. Thats a HUGE improvement. Last year it seemed there was always 3-2 dirt balls on 4 yard attemps and 2-3 that sail way over a wrs head. NO MORE! Lets not forget that hue is playing on an AWFUL O line and only has garret wilson and 20 as playmakers. There are no other O weapons. 

 

Another thing about zach.... he is TOUGH. This kid is still walking after 7 games. amazing!

 

In many ways right now zach is a unicorn. He cant move the ball much, he is not great in the red zone, but he is tough, does not turn it over and wins games in the end. REALLY really odd. 100% unicorn. Thanks god for our defense

I read this in Sam Kinison’s voice with all the uppercase words as him screaming. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

No huddle for Wilson just leads to quicker punts

wait, did you wright this from Utah or the east coast? wasnt sure if you were back from Utah yet? With your Utah obsession and all?

[Gaffneycatch81]

2 hours ago, jetsons said:

My main issue with Zach in the giants game was he took sacks that he didn’t need to take, if he had played the way he did sans the needless sacks I would feel better about him, but I agree with many of your observations.

Yes, that sums up my feeling too. And I look around and see other QBs taking unwarranted sacks in key situations (Garapolo taking a sack on fourth down at the end of the game last night, for example), and realize that while it doesn’t excuse Zach, it does happen with most QBs who are not among the elite few.

I’ve recently heard a lot of complaints about grading ZW on a too-generous curve (with good reason) — but the truth is, we do both … we set the bar too low and celebrate him when he just does basic things adequately, AND we loose perspective and condemn him when he makes mistakes that plenty of other competent QBs also make.

Overall, there is definitely improvement (and those who say there isn’t, or even that he’s regressed from last year as I’ve seen a few posters on this board claim, have lost all credibility in my eyes) — and there’s definitely a long way to go before I’d trust him to even back up AR next year. Beyond that is ages in NFL time, and not something really worth discussing at this point imo, since so much can and will happen between now and 2025.

[Matt39]

Just now, Flea Flicking Frank said:

wait, did you wright this from Utah or the east coast? wasnt sure if you were back from Utah yet? With your Utah obsession and all?

Should we expect Zach do he in Utah this week because the Jets have the Monday game? Did he clear his schedule with his mom?

[section314]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Browning Nagle > Zach Wilson

Love ya, but not even close.

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I don't even know why I am going to do this, but lets try to have some real football talk, can we?

Do you honestly not see how the coaching and the game plan is forcing this? I know your argument, its that they dont trust him so they have to play like that, but that is completely irrelevent. They are playing him.

Even soeone with your level of hatred and emotion must see how conservative the playcalling is and the emphasis is on not making mistakes. 

Do you honestly think if they oepend it up he wouldnt have a lot more TD's?

It would of course come with a lot more turnovers and msitakes, but this nonsense about how many TD's is just pure lack of observation of how the offense is playing football. Do you honestly not see that?

He threw 36 passes on Sunday. It wasn’t for lack of throwing.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Should we expect Zach do he in Utah this week because the Jets have the Monday game? Did he clear his schedule with his mom?

probably, maybe you can meet him there, he can give you a tour?