Zach’s “Injury” is a Farce

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

14 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

If the Jets had any stones, Becton would be cut today. What a complete joke he is.

The sad reality is there are no better alternatives on the Jet roster or on the street at this point.

Joe Douglas still wants to win games for his resume.

[Mike135]

Fake injury or not, I don't care.

It was like Becton wanted to get Zach killed.

Playing behind that oline is cruel and unusual punishment.

[Plen T]

25 minutes ago, jamesr said:

The implication I had read from the previous post was that T Law's concussion should have been spotted straight away, so I was responding that it can be missed initially as symptoms are not always immediate. (EDIT - I read "THESE CLOWNS" as referring to the medical assessors who missed the T Law concussion, but I think you are referring to posters in this thread. Hard to keep track ). 

Zach was looked at and cleared once in Q1 - which may account for why the "dehydration" report came out. He had some of the symptoms but cleared the test, so initially it was believed to be something else.

Yes mate I agree completely 

this staff is notorious for botching injuries as well

[Jdeet]

So Zach Wilson gets completely destroyed by the Dolphins, gets evaluated for a concussion in the 1st quarter. Goes back in the game. Gets destroyed again. Goes to the locker room with headache/dehydration. Doctors remove him from the game due to concussion symptoms, and he is quitting on his team and removed himself from the game ???

Wow, Zach haters have gone to a new low. What a bunch of s-bags you are, questioning a guys toughness when he has gone back in every time after being benched 3 times and staying positive, teammates 100% behind him. And then going back in after being evaluated for a concussion!!

I agree he isn’t good. But wtf with this? You all have reached a new low. You are embarrassing, 

[Biggs]

41 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Of course It does not.  

Week in and week out - Jet fans prove to be the most Toxic fan base in all of sports.

WTF does that even mean?  Toxic the way your using it is a word that is used by a crappy fired employee to get a better severance deal.   Fans aren't paid employees. 

[Barry McCockinner]

Just now, Mike135 said:

Fake injury or not, I don't care.

It was like Becton wanted to get Zach killed.

Playing behind that oline is cruel and unusual punishment.

Becton looks disinterested out there. I've noticed a few times over the past 2 games where he's just not even knowing his assignment, standing around, etc. I had high hopes for him but don't want him back at this point. I think he is just trying to coast to his next pay day.

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, Jdeet said:

So Zach Wilson gets completely destroyed by the Dolphins, gets evaluated for a concussion in the 1st quarter. Goes back in the game. Gets destroyed again. Goes to the locker room with headache/dehydration. Doctors remove him from the game due to concussion symptoms, and he is quitting on his team and removed himself from the game ???

Wow, Zach haters have gone to a new low. What a bunch of s-bags you are, questioning a guys toughness when he has gone back in every time after being benched 3 times and staying positive, teammates 100% behind him. And then going back in after being evaluated for a concussion!!

I agree he isn’t good. But wtf with this? You all have reached a new low. You are embarrassing, 

embarrassing.

[Larz]

Trev got out of ankle protocol 

impressive 

except it’s not a thing 

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

39 minutes ago, Plen T said:

 

Ok, I could actually buy this.

The Jet medical staff is infamous league-wide at this point for its incompetence.

[Jet_Engine1]

On 12/18/2023 at 11:24 AM, Plen T said:

 

OH, look at this guy.

 

Learn to read. Those are patient reported symptoms.... It is incredibly easy to actually diagnose Dehydration, you see, when you were fantasizing about wearing "Pads", I was a Firefighter/Paramedic for 20+ years. What someone complains of and what the clinical findings are during an exam are 2 different things. Guy complains of Headache and dizziness, you check what we in the trade call "Vital Signs". Dehydration could be ruled out or confirmed with a 5-minute exam. So, why did they report "Dehydration" twice and state that he was in the locker room being treated for "Dehydration" if they could have ruled that out very quickly? It's actually part of FF Rehab (NFPA 1500) during Fire Operations, after 20 minutes of work or at every SCBA Bottle Change, everyone gets their BP and HR checked while they drink at least 20oz of water... takes about 5-7 minutes tops.

 

FYI, Dehydration and Head injury have a very different set of findings associated with them... "Dehydration" or Heat Related illness to be more specific would cause an elevated heart rate and lower BP with associated changes to skin turgor.... Head Trauma could lead to concussion or even increased intracranial pressure, with an opposite set of findings (Cushing's Triad). But that's not something I've ever heard of outside of extremely severe head injury and is a late sign.

 

The fact that he was complaining of any of these symptoms with no indication of actually being dehydrated? It doesn't make any sense, and if I was still the EMS Captain and had a guy treat someone with those symptoms for dehydration, with no indications of dehydration or heat injury after a possible head injury, that person would be placed in remedial training, receive a Formal Disciplinary Counseling, and be placed on a Probationary evaluation.

Where/when did the 3rd Party Neurological Consultation happen? Where were the spotters? Zach was evaluated in the sideline Med Tent and was allowed to continue playing, and then in the locker room... and nobody reported any Head Injury or concussion during the game. Then it was reported he was getting an "X-Ray". Nothing about this makes sense. Headache, dizziness... those are common findings for about 500 different medical issues. Most of which could be ruled out quickly. 

 

The Jets are lying. 

[Plen T]

5 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Ok, I could actually buy this.

The Jet medical staff is infamous league-wide at this point for its incompetence.

What happened:

he went in the tent - misdiagnosed as no concussion (or the symptoms didn’t arise until the 2nd time his head ate dirt)

complains of dizziness, headache

Jets are clueless, so they mistake it for dehydration- the common misdiagnosis

he gets further evaluation and goes into actual concussion protocol

[Plen T]

3 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

OH, look at this pussy here trying to be a tough guy... lol 

 

Learn to read. Those are patient reported symptoms.... It is incredibly easy to actually diagnose Dehydration, you see, when you were fantasizing about wearing "Pads", I was a Firefighter/Paramedic for 20+ years. What someone complains of and what the clinical findings are during an exam are 2 different things. Guy complains of Headache and dizziness, you check what we in the trade call "Vital Signs". Dehydration could be ruled out or confirmed with a 5-minute exam. So, why did they report "Dehydration" twice and state that he was in the locker room being treated for "Dehydration" if they could have ruled that out very quickly? FYI, Dehydration and Head injury have a very different set of findings associated with them... "Dehydration" or Heat Related illness to be more specific would cause an elevated heart rate and lower BP with associated changes to skin turgor.... Head Trauma could lead to concussion or even increased intracranial pressure, with an opposite set of findings (Cushing's Triad). But that's not something I've ever heard of outside of extremely severe head injury and is a late sign.

 

The fact that he was complaining of any of these symptoms with no indication of actually being dehydrated? It doesn't make any sense, and if I was still the EMS Captain and had a guy treat someone with those symptoms for dehydration, with no indications of dehydration or heat injury after a possible head injury, that person would be placed in remedial training, receive a Formal Disciplinary Counseling, and be placed on a Probationary evaluation.

Where/when did the 3rd Party Neurological Consultation happen? Where were the spotters? Zach was evaluated in the sideline Med Tent and was allowed to continue playing, and then in the locker room... and nobody reported any Head Injury or concussion during the game. Then it was reported he was getting an "X-Ray". Nothing about this makes sense. Headache, dizziness... those are common findings for about 500 different medical issues. Most of which could be ruled out quickly. 

 

The Jets are lying. 

You typed all this out to make no sense

https://concussionfoundation.org/news/blog/should-tuas-season-be-over-top-questions-on-concussions

[Jet_Engine1]

14 minutes ago, Plen T said:

You typed all this out to make no sense

https://concussionfoundation.org/news/blog/should-tuas-season-be-over-top-questions-on-concussions

I'm sorry you can't read too good. You should move on to Plan W now.

Edit: Bro... Did you even read the article you posted to "rebut" me? LOL

Quote

 

This is likely Tua’s third concussion of the season, after what appeared, from my perspective, to be an obvious concussion on September 25 that the team refused to call a concussion, followed by a clear concussion on September 29 where Tua was knocked unconscious and showed decorticate posturing. Decorticate posturing is a rare brain injury sign more often seen in stroke victims, suggesting a more serious injury.

What happens next is important for Tua’s career and his life, and it’s an important teaching moment, so I’ve shared some insights below. It’s also a stark reminder of how much work we have ahead of us to continue to change the conversation on concussions.

1. Tua is in the concussion protocol, but does he have a concussion?

Almost certainly, yes, Tua has a concussion. The team reported Tua “displayed and admitted to having concussion symptoms” on Monday. Self-report of concussion symptoms after a head impact is the gold standard for diagnosis, specifically when the patient has experience with concussions. Unfortunately, Tua knows all too well what a concussion feels like. 
We also have a clear possible mechanism for concussion. Tua’s concussion was not diagnosed during the game, but looking back at the film there is a clear head to ground impact that preceded a decline in his performance. Finally, he is also displaying signs of concussion. Therefore, it would be nearly impossible for a physician to conclude he did not suffer a concussion.
2. Will the Miami Dolphins diagnose him with a concussion?

It would seem reasonable if Tua has a concussion, he will be diagnosed with a concussion. However, because there is no objective test for concussion, a diagnosis is not certain. Remember, on September 25, Tua showed 5 unique concussion signs after a head impact:
He grabbed his head in pain
He stumbled when he stood
He "shook off the cobwebs" and moved his head side-to-side (which you only do in the instance of a concussion)
He fell
He then had to be held up by his teammates

 

 

[Plen T]

2 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

I'm sorry you can't read too good. You should move on to Plan W now.

 

if you say so mate

 

30 minutes ago, Jdeet said:

So Zach Wilson gets completely destroyed by the Dolphins, gets evaluated for a concussion in the 1st quarter. Goes back in the game. Gets destroyed again. Goes to the locker room with headache/dehydration. Doctors remove him from the game due to concussion symptoms, and he is quitting on his team and removed himself from the game ???

Wow, Zach haters have gone to a new low. What a bunch of s-bags you are, questioning a guys toughness when he has gone back in every time after being benched 3 times and staying positive, teammates 100% behind him. And then going back in after being evaluated for a concussion!!

I agree he isn’t good. But wtf with this? You all have reached a new low. You are embarrassing, 

 

[kmnj]

zach is terrible  but i think he was getting killed out there and in my opinion took some brutal shots and I believe 100% he was hurt

becton (another Joe prodigy) should have  been benched...

[Jet_Engine1]

12 minutes ago, Plen T said:

if you say so mate

 

 

I'm glad you found a friend. Good for you! Jdeet is a real mensch.

 

Bottom line, Zach was evaluated, cleared,  and sent back on the field.

They then reported he was dehydrated.

They then stated he was being treated for dehydration. 

They then stated to Media he was getting an X-Ray.

Finally,  he was reported to be in the concussion protocol. 

 

Any way you cut it, they were lying. Period. Why?? If there was even an inkling that Zach was concussed earlier and he was cleared, they are in deep doo doo. 

 

Why all the subterfuge? Nothing makes any sense about this.

Same old Jets.

 

[Rolloffjet]

20 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Supposedly he had a concussion, but who cares at this point?

 

We need major changes. Zach was never coming back after this year - the same should be the case for this coaching staff, half of this offensive line, and every WR not named Garrett Wilson 

Idk i kind of like Gibson he should definitely be part of this passing game. Perfect number 3. Its a shame he has to go as #2 but he’s got talent. Great undrafted player. We just need to sign a #1/2 player in free agency. Also we need a whole new offense line we got tipp and avt but the rest should go.

[FidelioJet]

44 minutes ago, Biggs said:

WTF does that even mean?  Toxic the way your using it is a word that is used by a crappy fired employee to get a better severance deal.   Fans aren't paid employees.

 

I'll try and help you with an explanation of what Toxic means.  I think #2 below best describes what it means in this circumstance.

The Jets have the single most Toxic fan base in all of sports.  There isn't a close second.

T

[Jet_Engine1]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

The Jets have the single most Toxic fan base in all of sports.  There isn't a close second.

T

I wonder why...

 

I honestly wonder why any of us even care anymore. There is no light at the end of this tunnel,  the organization is a disaster, they constantly lie about things that should be straightforward,  and refuse to acknowledge mistakes or take accountability. 

 

It's simply insane at this point. 

[Jdeet]

33 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

OH, look at this pussy here trying to be a tough guy... lol 

 

Learn to read. Those are patient reported symptoms.... It is incredibly easy to actually diagnose Dehydration, you see, when you were fantasizing about wearing "Pads", I was a Firefighter/Paramedic for 20+ years. What someone complains of and what the clinical findings are during an exam are 2 different things. Guy complains of Headache and dizziness, you check what we in the trade call "Vital Signs". Dehydration could be ruled out or confirmed with a 5-minute exam. So, why did they report "Dehydration" twice and state that he was in the locker room being treated for "Dehydration" if they could have ruled that out very quickly? It's actually part of FF Rehab (NFPA 1500) during Fire Operations, after 20 minutes of work or at every SCBA Bottle Change, everyone gets their BP and HR checked while they drink at least 20oz of water... takes about 5-7 minutes tops.

 

FYI, Dehydration and Head injury have a very different set of findings associated with them... "Dehydration" or Heat Related illness to be more specific would cause an elevated heart rate and lower BP with associated changes to skin turgor.... Head Trauma could lead to concussion or even increased intracranial pressure, with an opposite set of findings (Cushing's Triad). But that's not something I've ever heard of outside of extremely severe head injury and is a late sign.

 

The fact that he was complaining of any of these symptoms with no indication of actually being dehydrated? It doesn't make any sense, and if I was still the EMS Captain and had a guy treat someone with those symptoms for dehydration, with no indications of dehydration or heat injury after a possible head injury, that person would be placed in remedial training, receive a Formal Disciplinary Counseling, and be placed on a Probationary evaluation.

Where/when did the 3rd Party Neurological Consultation happen? Where were the spotters? Zach was evaluated in the sideline Med Tent and was allowed to continue playing, and then in the locker room... and nobody reported any Head Injury or concussion during the game. Then it was reported he was getting an "X-Ray". Nothing about this makes sense. Headache, dizziness... those are common findings for about 500 different medical issues. Most of which could be ruled out quickly. 

 

The Jets are lying. 

Dehydration symptoms- Dizziness / headache 

Concussion symptoms - Dizziness / headache 

Idiot symptoms - Jet_engine1

[Jet_Engine1]

3 minutes ago, Jdeet said:

Dehydration symptoms- Dizziness / headache 

Concussion symptoms - Dizziness / headache 

Idiot symptoms - Jet_engine1

Patient complains of listed symptoms. 

Med staff performs evaluation. 

Patient is either dehydrated or he isn't (easily confirmed as stated above)

 

Follow algorithm for treatment depending on findings:

If Patient VS indicate dehydration: Patient is treated for heat injury and either improves OR does not improve, recheck for other causes.

Patient VS do not indicate dehydration: perform neurological exam.

 

Basic medical stuff the Jets are dancing around. Why? Why even double down on the dehydration report?

Nothing makes sense. It's beyond one player at this point. If the Jets misdiagnosed a Concussion in this day and age, ignored his complaints and cleared him, they're in trouble.

So why the varied stories? 

 

 

[Plen T]

12 minutes ago, Jdeet said:

Dehydration symptoms- Dizziness / headache 

Concussion symptoms - Dizziness / headache 

Idiot symptoms - Jet_engine1

these guys are crazy man I don't get why dude cant just admit he's wrong

the mental gymnastics are hilarious to see though!

[FidelioJet]

11 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

I wonder why...

 

I honestly wonder why any of us even care anymore. There is no light at the end of this tunnel,  the organization is a disaster, they constantly lie about things that should be straightforward,  and refuse to acknowledge mistakes or take accountability. 

 

It's simply insane at this point. 

I can completely understand why it's gotten to this point.  It's very difficult being a fan of this team.  But it is very ugly.

I think some fans don't realize it though - like they really are choosing to attack a 22 as a quitter because he got a concussion and was forced to be pulled from the game by the league. 

They think there's some massive conspiracy by the league to hide the truth that he quit on his team.  The Toxicity is worse when people are blinded to it.  

[Plen T]

28 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

I'm glad you found a friend. Good for you! Jdeet is a real mensch.

 

Bottom line, Zach was evaluated, cleared,  and sent back on the field.

They then reported he was dehydrated.

They then stated he was being treated for dehydration. 

They then stated to Media he was getting an X-Ray.

Finally,  he was reported to be in the concussion protocol. 

 

Any way you cut it, they were lying. Period. Why?? If there was even an inkling that Zach was concussed earlier and he was cleared, they are in deep doo doo. 

 

Why all the subterfuge? Nothing makes any sense about this.

Same old Jets.

 

this is exactly what I am saying mate

I've posted several instances where concussions have been botched

the Jets wouldn't be in trouble because it was an independent evaluator that messed it up the first time

it's also entirely plausible he didnt have a concussion until the 2nd time his head hit the pavement

you've been arguing that Zach made it up because he didn't want to play which is truly absurd and hilarious at the same time

guess how diagnoses are made? off of symptoms!

[Jet_Engine1]

5 minutes ago, Plen T said:

this is exactly what I am saying mate

I've posted several instances where concussions have been botched

the Jets wouldn't be in trouble because it was an independent evaluator that messed it up the first time

it's also entirely plausible he didnt have a concussion until the 2nd time his head hit the pavement

you've been arguing that Zach made it up because he didn't want to play which is truly absurd and hilarious at the same time

guess how diagnoses are made? off of symptoms!

I've been saying this entire time that the Jets, the 3rd Party Independent Neurologists, or the Coaching staff were either incompetent, someone is lying, or a combination of both. 

 

Someone has those symptoms anywhere else and calls 911, first question is, "Have you hit your head or suffered any trauma in the last 24 hours?". If the answer is YES, you're getting a direct transport to a facility with a CT. Period. I think Wilson would qualify, yes?

 

Where the hell did these clowns pull "dehydration" out of? 

 

That's my issue. You're conflating what I'm saying now with other arguments.  Have a great one. Have to go to the VA for pre-CT blood work (not kidding). I have symptoms that could be general gastritis all the way to Pancreatic Cancer. But before I'm given a diagnosis, I need a full work up, exam, and imaging. That's how medicine actually works.

 

 

[Jdeet]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

embarrassing.

Thats a hopeful prediction of a football game. You are saying that a guy faked having a concussion. Definitely the same thing. The dumbness of this forum is at full strength. 

[jamesr]

I'm glad you found a friend. Good for you! Jdeet is a real mensch.
 
Bottom line, Zach was evaluated, cleared,  and sent back on the field.
They then reported he was dehydrated.
They then stated he was being treated for dehydration. 
They then stated to Media he was getting an X-Ray.
Finally,  he was reported to be in the concussion protocol. 
 
Any way you cut it, they were lying. Period. Why?? If there was even an inkling that Zach was concussed earlier and he was cleared, they are in deep doo doo. 
 
Why all the subterfuge? Nothing makes any sense about this.
Same old Jets.
 

Why would they be in doo doo if an independent specialist stated he was fit to go back into the game?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

The sad reality is there are no better alternatives on the Jet roster or on the street at this point.

Joe Douglas still wants to win games for his resume.

Yesterday they would have been better off if he just laid on the ground with the hopes a Dolphin defender would trip over him. 

[Warfish]

Real or not, I hope Zach’s tenure as a Jet will end soon. 

We can and should expect better.  Simple as that really, we should always be trying to be better.

The real question is who starts vs the Ders.

Will Zach have a shocking recovery?

Do we have to watch Seimien again?

Do we get a new body in Rypien?

At this point I vote Rypien and see if we can set an NFL record for most different starting QB’s in a season lol.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Patient complains of listed symptoms. 

Med staff performs evaluation. 

Patient is either dehydrated or he isn't (easily confirmed as stated above)

 

Follow algorithm for treatment depending on findings:

If Patient VS indicate dehydration: Patient is treated for heat injury and either improves OR does not improve, recheck for other causes.

Patient VS do not indicate dehydration: perform neurological exam.

 

Basic medical stuff the Jets are dancing around. Why? Why even double down on the dehydration report?

Nothing makes sense. It's beyond one player at this point. If the Jets misdiagnosed a Concussion in this day and age, ignored his complaints and cleared him, they're in trouble.

So why the varied stories? 

How do we explain the Tua stuff from last year then?  Maybe I'll be proven wrong but I don't think Zach is faking this. 

I thought it was possible when we first heard "dehydration" (which I can't really recall hearing before and it wasn't a 95 degree day in Miami).  But once we heard "head injury", that made a lot more sense (even though they initially said "non concussion head injury" or whatever).  I remember posting at the time that it was obvious he went to the locker room early due to injury.  It certainly seems plausible in light of what we witnessed in the 1st half.

That was an absolutely disgraceful performance by our OL yesterday!

[The Crusher]

Man, some straight up Twilight zone crap here. LOL

[Jet_Engine1]

10 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

How do we explain the Tua stuff from last year then?  Maybe I'll be proven wrong but I don't think Zach is faking this. 

I thought it was possible when we first heard "dehydration" (which I can't really recall hearing before and it wasn't a 95 degree day in Miami).  But once we heard "head injury", that made a lot more sense (even though they initially said "non concussion head injury" or whatever).  I remember posting at the time that it was obvious he went to the locker room early due to injury.  It certainly seems plausible in light of what we witnessed in the 1st half.

That was an absolutely disgraceful performance by our OL yesterday!

What happened to Tua last year was sheer negligence. 

[TuscanyTile2]

8 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Man, some straight up Twilight zone crap here. LOL

 

[BeaconJet]

You can argue and name call all day long about dehydration vs concussion, the Jets lying or not, misdiagnosing or not, but at the end of the day, its simple.  IF Wilson is in the Concussion Protocol, it will become obvious this week because an independent neurological consultant will have to clear him to play.

Personally, it wouldn't shock me if the Jets crack staff misdiagnosed this from the get-go. Does anyone currently collecting a paycheck from the Jets really engender feelings of competence?

[football guy]

Quote

Gardner missed New York’s 20-14 victory over Philadelphia two weeks ago after being a late addition to the injury report with what was first called an “illness” by the team. But symptoms worsened for last year’s AP Defensive Rookie of the Year and it was determined he had a concussion.

Sauce just didn't want to play the Eagles I guess lol