Woodys Coordinator fetish

[Rich Thornburgh]

On 12/18/2023 at 4:34 PM, JOJOTOWNSELL said:

Woody is picking ours lol

Woody has zero ability to evaluate coaches

[GKnight83]

On 12/18/2023 at 1:41 PM, DonCorleone said:

That's why Parcells Jetted out of here.

Parcells did not jet out of here.

He overstayed his welcome.

In fact, his staying cost us from having Little Bill as a HC.

Not to mention he put the team is cap hell for years.

[Rich Thornburgh]

1 minute ago, GKnight83 said:

Parcells did not jet out of here.

He overstayed his welcome.

In fact, his staying cost us from having Little Bill as a HC.

Not to mention he put the team is cap hell for years.

Woody is a notoriously inept executive.  That’s known throughout the league.  If you don’t believe me fine.  14 years. No playoff appearances and the franchise going nowhere fast because the owner still thinks Zach is for real and wants to appease Aaron Rodgers

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Woody is a notoriously inept executive.  That’s known throughout the league.  If you don’t believe me fine.  14 years. No playoff appearances and the franchise going nowhere fast because the owner still thinks Zach is for real and wants to appease Aaron Rodgers

Yep.  They did a 1st swap and traded a couple of 2nds, (could have been a first) and are paying all that money to Rodgers because they think Zach is for real.   We got hijacked by a 40 year old QB because we think Zach Wilson is the real deal.  That logic doesn't even hold up for a complete sentence.

[Rich Thornburgh]

6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Yep.  They did a 1st swap and traded a couple of 2nds, (could have been a first) and are paying all that money to Rodgers because they think Zach is for real.   We got hijacked by a 40 year old QB because we think Zach Wilson is the real deal.  That logic doesn't even hold up for a complete sentence.

Half the reason Rodgers was brought here was to mentor Zach. 

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, Rich Thornburgh said:

Half the reason Rodgers was brought here was to mentor Zach. 

Yep.  Trade the farm and give a huge contract to a mentor who will be ready to retire right about when Zach's contract is expired.  Makes perfect sense!  Thumbs down for logic!

[varjet]

I think the hiring of McCarthy over Gase says it all.   
 

Saleh could have been much better than he was.   His early stage plan was foiled by tragedy and then bad decisions on draft picks.   We will never understand what went into the selection of JD’s picks, but I think the process is very flawed and involves little or bad scouting and over reliance on coach input.  
 

Once Becton, Wilson, Mims and Moore were all flops (those are FOUR premium picks on busted offensive players), Woody falls for the Rodgers trap to try and add a jolt, and here we are. 

[Sperm Edwards]

On 12/19/2023 at 12:03 AM, HawkeyeJet said:

It’s not that he’s hiring coordinators, it’s the archetype of coordinator he is drawn to.  Since he took over, Woody has hired 6 coaches(5 if you say Chris hired Gase). Outside of Gase, he’s hired 5 Defensive Coordinators. There appears to be a definite pattern as well.

I think his favorite “type” is the high energy, big personality with flashy sayings etc.  This is Herm, Rex and Saleh.  This is the type that can woo him easiest.  This just so happens to be a coach type you find a lot more on the defensive side of the ball.

After these coaches wear out their welcome, he shifts to opposite personalities but for some reason stays on the defensive side of the ball.  His defensive over-correction type is the stoic defensive tactician.  Mangini & Bowles.  He listens to the media make fun of his rah-rah guys so switches to milquetoast.

Hopefully the next hire breaks that cycle and we get a mildly entertaining but relatively bland offensive coordinator.  That will be the one.  It’s like when George Costanza did the opposite of everything his instincts told him and he turned everything to gold.

Meh, I think this conclusion at suffers more than a bit from overly relying on data (D vs O coach hires) from a such a small data set.

The team also showed strong interest in offensive coach Matt Rhule, who grew up a NYC guy, before they went with Saleh when Rhule turned them down (remember the "arranged marriage" talk). So there's that, for all that hire would've been worth, lol. 

I think similar happened with offensive coach McCarthy who'd interviewed that year, too, before deciding to sit out the year. Could be for the same reason of having brainless Mike McCagnan choose + force-feed a DC onto an offensive HC hire, plus he was still collecting a check from Green Bay anyway. McCarthy would've been the biggest name HC hired here since Parcells, but even he wasn't some red-hot item after the game's most elite passer had him pushed out: down in Dallas he's still one of the lowest-paid HCs in the NFL.

If either of them was brought in - including what would've been a disaster of a first choice in Rhule - then the split is a shoulder-shrug at 4:2. Among the rest...

Belichick = former DC = quit within a day, and despite the idea that he quit rather than work for Woody Johnson - seeing how he quit before Woody was even the owner - that was over the whole love triad among Belichick, Parcells, and Kraft. Woody would've been a doormat who'd have gone with and given full control to anyone from the Parcells tree. Today no one thinks of him as just a DC but a full coach on both sides of the ball, but that wasn't his reputation back then. The napkin insult aside, it wasn't even then known if him going to New England would've been any great loss.

Groh = was a former DC - the one who was technically the DC in New England, not Belichick, when Parcells was coaching there: Belichick had the Asst HC title but in terms of in-game management he was the DB coach. Anyone who thinks it was Woody Johnson's choice/idea to hire Groh, rather than Parcells offering him up as Plan B after Belichick's surprise napkin-resignation, is delusional. He's the first official Woody hire on paper, anyway, as he was named HC about a week after the transaction for Woody to buy the Jets, weeks after Belichick quit.

Herm = a former DB coach, was the first graduate from the league's diversity coaching program, having never been a coordinator before (neither was Andy Reid, so there's that, too). While there's no evidence he was forced onto the Jets, it's doubtless the league's leadership was strongly in favor of and pushing it after decades of a pathetic, comapratively negligible percentage of NFL HC minority hires. Woody was only owner for a year at the time, and GM Parcells was running everything himself above Groh, who quit after the 2000 season pissed away in Jets fashion, followed by Parcells 10 days later. Woody? He didn't know Herm at all. The one who knew him was Bradway, and Parcells was the one who recommended Bradway as his replacement (Bradway worked for Parcells with the Giants as a scout from '85 to '91 through both of their Super Bowls, before working his way up the ranks in KC). A one-year newbie in the NFL, Woody would've done whatever Parcells wanted and would've hired whomever he suggested. Well Tuna's recommendation was Bradway, and Bradway in turn knew Herm from KC (plus Herm had the  strong blessing of Dungy whose reputation for turning around the hapless Bucs was sky-high the year before he was fired). So it was the blind leading the blind on both the GM and HC hires, but the idea that Woody handpicked Herm himself is ridiculous. Woody didn't know dick about anybody, and it's likely he didn't know even a handful of fellow owners yet beyond a handshake and a cocktail at an owners meeting.

Then don't forget the plan after the 2005 season was not to fire Herm - disturbing as that is in its own right - but rather that KC tampered with him to get Herm back into their family. Woody, being the beta that he is, accepted a mere 4th rounder for another team in the conference tampering with his head coach. The only thing that made the humiliation sting less is the stupidity of someone else tampering to get Herm, as it meant Coach Fignewton was finally out of here. But I digest. 

Mangini = was a third straight defensive hire, but that was incidental, too. No one imagined he was hired because he was some defensive genius. He was brought in because he was the only one from the Belichick tree willing to stab BB in the back to come here, and prior to that the idea was he was being groomed as BB's heir apparent or the next Belichick: a cerebral guy who did his talking with his smarts instead of his mumbles, and with such a beautiful mind it really didn't matter if he was an offensive HC or a defensive one. It's a reputation that was then passed down to McDaniels, before almost every FO started to realize the Belichick coaching tree isn't something worth pursuing. But back at the time of this hire in 2006, no one thought of Belichick as a glorified DC playing HC anymore, and that was the undeserved reputation Mangini was already getting after one forgettable year as Belichick's DC. The idea being, if this is the guy Belichick is grooming, he must be worth stealing if they could make it happen. That this Belichick-disciple was viewed as a disciplinarian was surely welcomed at the end of Herm's tenure. How would Woody even know to look to Mangini as an option who might defect from New England to the team Belichick hated most of all? It was newly promoted GM Tannenbaum, not Woody, as they both started out as intern types on the Parcells Jets. Woody surely was part of the decision, but was in no position to overrule this strong recommendation because he didn't know anybody and was just cucked publicly by the Chiefs.

Rex = a defensive hire. The thing I'll say that is accurate about Woody's hires is they go full-swing from charmless disciplinarians like Groh and Mangini to the polar opposite in Herm and Rex. Not just a correction, but a total over-correction. Rex was probably the first hire that truly had Woody's stamp on it. Woody was the one who fired Mangini after saying - earlier that season - he was safe. Certainly Tannenbaum wasn't firing his buddy, and so began the process of Jets HCs inheriting lame duck Jets GMs and vice versa, which continues to this day after a one-time interruption to sneak in the Maccanan-Bowles error. At least it wasn't going to be a defensive hire who'd immediately require - for the third consecutive regime - gutting the defense to flip-flop personnel to fit a rigidly different scheme (Parcells/Groh > Herm > Mangini before that). Passed over for the Ravens' HC promotion in favor of Special Teams Coach Harbaugh, Rex was a successful and brash and loudmouthed DC who convinced Woody he was actually born into the Jets family from his dad; a rare connection to the franchise's lone Super Bowl victory (or even its only appearance ffs). And so it began.

Prior to the Rex hire, they unsuccessfully tried to woo Cowher to quickly un-retire. HC hires and candidates around the league that year were almost exclusively defensive coaches: Cowher, Rex, Schwartz, Spagnuolo, and the recently-fired Mangini. Tampa fired Gruden and promoted DC Raheem Morris. Looking it up, it appears only offense-side HC hire was Josh McDaniels, and I don't think anyone interviewed Gruden that month after he was canned, and Rex was hired 5 days later. His last year continued the asynchronous inheriting of coaches + GMs, with Korn-Ferry recommending Idzik, who was told he'd get to hire his own HC if/when Rex fell on his face in 2013. After an 8-8 finish, despite a depleted roster with a lot of trash, that was taken out of Idzik's hands.

After a disastrous draft class in '14, and an unsuccessful attempt at trading his way out of a bunch of receiver-pick busts by bringing in Percy Harvin by the trade deadline, followed by that cringy Idzik press conference that probably sealed his fate as much as his lack of success - Woody had never fired someone so quickly before or since - then came a full housecleaning: both GM Idzik and HC Rex getting fired at the same time. The only time since Groh and Parcells quit in early 2001. 

Charley Casserly with his embarrassingly bad toupee was retained to help with the GM search, and he brought in a longtime buddy/supplicant of his, rather than an actual search among all candidates. In going with this obvious nepotism-like recommendation, Woody hired the emptyheaded Mike Maccagnan, who in turn recommended they hire Todd Bowles.

Bowles = again the defensive hire, but again it was due to a strong recommendation from those who would know better than Woody alone. Like plenty of others around the league, he was viewed as such a competent coordinator any team would be lucky to have him as their HC. Another polar-opposite personality swing, too, from the loud and cartoonish Rex to the decidedly mild-mannered Bowles. Bowles had been a fine DC and defensive coach, but that didn't translate to being HC here, nor even to helping Maccagnan rebuild to field a dominant Jets defense. I'll say this, he was surely the nicest human this franchise has ever hired. You'd want him as a friend and next-door neighbor for all your life. But as a HC - particularly as a first-time HC like all the post-Parcells hires before him - he was in over his head being in charge of everyone. Truth is while a HC doesn't have to be an a-hole, he probably needs to be harder than the soft and super-nice Bowles. At least he coached the team to a 10-win season his first year here, which hasn't been repeated since.

Maccagnan was retained, since Johnson family Fredo Chris Johnson was in no position to oversee hiring a new GM himself, and Fredo had just given both Bowles and Maccagnan outright extensions the prior offseason, as rewards for their collective failures. JFC, this franchise. 

Gase = an offensive HC hire, which was all but the stated goal after a string of defensive HCs. Gase wasn't the first choice. It was Matt Rhule, mentioned above. They also showed interest in McCarthy. I on the strong recommendation I think the tie breaker went to Gase over McCarthy, who'd kind of earned a reputation as being an empty suit without a HOF QB in his prime. Why that reputation didn't extend even more to Gase is a mystery, but anyway I can understand taking Peyton Manning's judgment over Woody Johnson's or Mike Maccagnan's. Anyway both were recently-fired, offensive-minded HCs.

Saleh = a defensive HC hire. Like Bowles, was widely viewed as one of the smart coordinators making the much-earned leap to HC. SF had a defense of elite players, so it's not like he at all made chicken salad out of chicken poop out there. Not much need to expand, as the discussion of the current coach has been discussed to death and will continue through the rest of another facepalm season of Jets football. 

But the summary is these weren't the results of seeking out defensive coaches over offensive ones. Each had its reasons for his hire at the time, and none were because of a Woody Johnson philosophy of "We have to do something about this porous defense, because defense wins championships." 

Prior to Saleh?  

• Parcells recommendation >
• Bradway and NFL league-office recommendation >
• BB tree hire from Tannenbaum recommendation > a
• year when there were no offensive HCs hired outside of Josh McDaniels >
• Casserly-Maccagnan recommendation >
• Peyton Manning recommendation > 
• The wrong coordinator from the Shanahan tree among Mike McDaniel, DeMeco Ryans, and Robert Saleh. 

 

 

...2000 words -- not bad. Thanks for reading.

[bitonti]

4 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

Whiners: "The Jets always get the leftovers ... waaaah"

 

Reality - here's what the NFL reporters were saying at the time:

honestly I'm not sure what Saleh is supposed to do with no QB and garbage OC and a terrible OL etc

He's the fall guy for the whole organization but at least he built that defense 

What the heck has Joe Douglas done? What has Shadow GM aaron Rodgers done? 

Robert Saleh is not elite HC by any means but he's better at his job than Joe Douglas is at his 

[jmat321]

He meddles too much that likely turns off the "elite" candidates.  They are left hiring the hot coordinators with no HC experience that tend to fizzle out in this market.  

McCarthy - I remember the Jets FO wanted to dictate his staff and he wasn't in agreement.  He then took a job with Jerry Jones of all people.  That tells you something about Woody IMO.

   

[Barry McCockinner]

10 minutes ago, jmat321 said:

He meddles too much that likely turns off the "elite" candidates.  They are left hiring the hot coordinators with no HC experience that tend to fizzle out in this market.  

McCarthy - I remember the Jets FO wanted to dictate his staff and he wasn't in agreement.  He then took a job with Jerry Jones of all people.  That tells you something about Woody IMO.

   

McCarthy only wanted to coach the Jets. They decided Adam Gase who just failed with the Dolphins was a better choice. @T0mShane applauded the decision.

https://nypost.com/2019/01/14/jets-ceo-wants-fans-to-get-over-their-mike-mccarthy-regrets/

Quote

“We talked with every one of the candidates extensively about their coaching staff, each position, various people that might fill that,” Johnson said. “That was a big part … these are multi-hour interviews. We went through those things quite extensively. At no point did we say, ‘We were going to choose your guys’ or ‘We don’t like that guy’ or ‘We like this guy, we’re going to put him in there.’ No, that never happened. I completely deny it.”

 

[T0mShane]

25 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

McCarthy only wanted to coach the Jets. They decided Adam Gase who just failed with the Dolphins was a better choice. @T0mShane applauded the decision.

https://nypost.com/2019/01/14/jets-ceo-wants-fans-to-get-over-their-mike-mccarthy-regrets/

 

IF YOU WANT MCCARTHY SO BAD YOU CAN GET HIM IN A FEW WEEKS BUD

[slimjasi]

38 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

McCarthy only wanted to coach the Jets. They decided Adam Gase who just failed with the Dolphins was a better choice. @T0mShane applauded the decision.

https://nypost.com/2019/01/14/jets-ceo-wants-fans-to-get-over-their-mike-mccarthy-regrets/

 

They were supposedly looking for an experienced offensive coach for Darnold. 

McCarthy was the most obvious no-brainer hire ever. 

oh well

[Dcat]

On 12/18/2023 at 9:53 AM, JOJOTOWNSELL said:

We never had someone who has done it before.  Seems to me this is the one constant of the Woody era.  (Dont give me the Gase nonsense)

 

Discuss

No established coach wants anything to do with this imbecile. None of them would even consider working for Woody.  The only one I ever remember willing to come here was McCarthy and Woody ultimately sh*t on his desire to be Jets HC.

Sadly,  Woody is anathema to success.

[UntouchableCrew]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

honestly I'm not sure what Saleh is supposed to do with no QB and garbage OC and a terrible OL etc

He's the fall guy for the whole organization but at least he built that defense 

What the heck has Joe Douglas done? What has Shadow GM aaron Rodgers done? 

Robert Saleh is not elite HC by any means but he's better at his job than Joe Douglas is at his 

The two worst decisions on offense of the Saleh tenure were ones he was (supposedly) against:

1) Drafting Zach Wilson (he wanted to trade the pick and keep Darnold, if rumors are to be believed)

2) Firing MLF to go all in with Hackett because Zach Wilson was a bust

[Barry McCockinner]

28 minutes ago, Dcat said:

No established coach wants anything to do with this imbecile. None of them would even consider working for Woody.  The only one I ever remember willing to come here was McCarthy and Woody ultimately sh*t on his desire to be Jets HC.

Sadly,  Woody is anathema to success.

wasn't it Christopher who decided Gase was coaching where football was going?

[Dcat]

12 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

wasn't it Christopher who decided Gase was coaching where football was going?

Perhaps, but I think Woody made all the big decisions while he was out working for Trump in Britain.  Chris was an outstanding hand puppet.

[GKnight83]

7 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Woody is a notoriously inept executive.  That’s known throughout the league.  If you don’t believe me fine.  14 years. No playoff appearances and the franchise going nowhere fast because the owner still thinks Zach is for real and wants to appease Aaron Rodgers

Im sorry...was not talking about Woody.  Just what Parcells cost the organization.  

I see Woody in two different ways...

As a Jet fan I think he has provided significant resources to the team  Yes, I blamed him for firing Mangini, cutting Chad and bringing in the idiot Favre without making sure he did the preseason so everyone was ready.  Anyone thinking Shttyheimer and Favre were going to get along seriously has a problem seeing the forest from the trees.  We all can add our won things that really got us miffed - I get it.

However, as a business owner I have the upmost respect for Woody.  He has created a massive amount of value in the team.  One could say he has turned $600MM into $3-4B even without a Championship quality team.  No matter who or what anyone credits this massive inrcease in value Woody still gets the credit.

 

[Green Truth]

On 12/18/2023 at 1:20 PM, Plen T said:

Almost every great coach now is a coordinator 

the only retread is really Reid, Pederson, Payton and Carrol

Other former head coaches who got another chance again McCarthy, Rivera, Reich (until let go) and BB.

[Jigsaw89]

On 12/18/2023 at 10:57 AM, JOJOTOWNSELL said:

Woody and Chris Johnson

 

Fidelio!

[Better2bgreenthanblue]

What coach in their right mind wants to debrief with the weirdo Woody after EVERY practice/game?

[Plen T]

5 hours ago, Green Truth said:

Other former head coaches who got another chance again McCarthy, Rivera, Reich (until let go) and BB.

yeah those guys blow outside of Bill

[Robert]

On 12/18/2023 at 4:26 PM, Green Ghost said:

The team keeps losing. The owner continues to make a fortune. The fans continue to give the team their money and devotion.
Yet in the fan’s mind, the owner is the idiot.
You can’t make this sh*t up.

Hey don’t blame the fans

 

getting drunk and watching horrible football bonding with the kids they ignore 6 days a week is their business 

 

 

[Rich Thornburgh]

10 hours ago, GKnight83 said:

Im sorry...was not talking about Woody.  Just what Parcells cost the organization.  

I see Woody in two different ways...

As a Jet fan I think he has provided significant resources to the team  Yes, I blamed him for firing Mangini, cutting Chad and bringing in the idiot Favre without making sure he did the preseason so everyone was ready.  Anyone thinking Shttyheimer and Favre were going to get along seriously has a problem seeing the forest from the trees.  We all can add our won things that really got us miffed - I get it.

However, as a business owner I have the upmost respect for Woody.  He has created a massive amount of value in the team.  One could say he has turned $600MM into $3-4B even without a Championship quality team.  No matter who or what anyone credits this massive inrcease in value Woody still gets the credit.

 

Woody is not a good businessman.  There’s a reason the J&J board won’t let him anywhere near the building.   Buying the jets is the only good business decision he has ever made and literally every other NFL/NBA/MLB franchise has quintupled in value last 20 years

[GKnight83]

6 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Woody is not a good businessman.  There’s a reason the J&J board won’t let him anywhere near the building.   Buying the jets is the only good business decision he has ever made and literally every other NFL/NBA/MLB franchise has quintupled in value last 20 years

You do know that a company;s board has nothing to do with can come into one of their buildings, right?

Management teams run companies. Not Boards.

Being related to all three founders - I am sure Woody is welcome there any time he wants.  If I am not mistaken he does or has worked with their charitable foundation

[Doggin94it]

22 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Meh, I think this conclusion at suffers more than a bit from overly relying on data (D vs O coach hires) from a such a small data set.

The team also showed strong interest in offensive coach Matt Rhule, who grew up a NYC guy, before they went with Saleh when Rhule turned them down (remember the "arranged marriage" talk). So there's that, for all that hire would've been worth, lol. 

I think similar happened with offensive coach McCarthy who'd interviewed that year, too, before deciding to sit out the year. Could be for the same reason of having brainless Mike McCagnan choose + force-feed a DC onto an offensive HC hire, plus he was still collecting a check from Green Bay anyway. McCarthy would've been the biggest name HC hired here since Parcells, but even he wasn't some red-hot item after the game's most elite passer had him pushed out: down in Dallas he's still one of the lowest-paid HCs in the NFL.

If either of them was brought in - including what would've been a disaster of a first choice in Rhule - then the split is a shoulder-shrug at 4:2. Among the rest...

Belichick = former DC = quit within a day, and despite the idea that he quit rather than work for Woody Johnson - seeing how he quit before Woody was even the owner - that was over the whole love triad among Belichick, Parcells, and Kraft. Woody would've been a doormat who'd have gone with and given full control to anyone from the Parcells tree. Today no one thinks of him as just a DC but a full coach on both sides of the ball, but that wasn't his reputation back then. The napkin insult aside, it wasn't even then known if him going to New England would've been any great loss.

Groh = was a former DC - the one who was technically the DC in New England, not Belichick, when Parcells was coaching there: Belichick had the Asst HC title but in terms of in-game management he was the DB coach. Anyone who thinks it was Woody Johnson's choice/idea to hire Groh, rather than Parcells offering him up as Plan B after Belichick's surprise napkin-resignation, is delusional. He's the first official Woody hire on paper, anyway, as he was named HC about a week after the transaction for Woody to buy the Jets, weeks after Belichick quit.

Herm = a former DB coach, was the first graduate from the league's diversity coaching program, having never been a coordinator before (neither was Andy Reid, so there's that, too). While there's no evidence he was forced onto the Jets, it's doubtless the league's leadership was strongly in favor of and pushing it after decades of a pathetic, comapratively negligible percentage of NFL HC minority hires. Woody was only owner for a year at the time, and GM Parcells was running everything himself above Groh, who quit after the 2000 season pissed away in Jets fashion, followed by Parcells 10 days later. Woody? He didn't know Herm at all. The one who knew him was Bradway, and Parcells was the one who recommended Bradway as his replacement (Bradway worked for Parcells with the Giants as a scout from '85 to '91 through both of their Super Bowls, before working his way up the ranks in KC). A one-year newbie in the NFL, Woody would've done whatever Parcells wanted and would've hired whomever he suggested. Well Tuna's recommendation was Bradway, and Bradway in turn knew Herm from KC (plus Herm had the  strong blessing of Dungy whose reputation for turning around the hapless Bucs was sky-high the year before he was fired). So it was the blind leading the blind on both the GM and HC hires, but the idea that Woody handpicked Herm himself is ridiculous. Woody didn't know dick about anybody, and it's likely he didn't know even a handful of fellow owners yet beyond a handshake and a cocktail at an owners meeting.

Then don't forget the plan after the 2005 season was not to fire Herm - disturbing as that is in its own right - but rather that KC tampered with him to get Herm back into their family. Woody, being the beta that he is, accepted a mere 4th rounder for another team in the conference tampering with his head coach. The only thing that made the humiliation sting less is the stupidity of someone else tampering to get Herm, as it meant Coach Fignewton was finally out of here. But I digest. 

Mangini = was a third straight defensive hire, but that was incidental, too. No one imagined he was hired because he was some defensive genius. He was brought in because he was the only one from the Belichick tree willing to stab BB in the back to come here, and prior to that the idea was he was being groomed as BB's heir apparent or the next Belichick: a cerebral guy who did his talking with his smarts instead of his mumbles, and with such a beautiful mind it really didn't matter if he was an offensive HC or a defensive one. It's a reputation that was then passed down to McDaniels, before almost every FO started to realize the Belichick coaching tree isn't something worth pursuing. But back at the time of this hire in 2006, no one thought of Belichick as a glorified DC playing HC anymore, and that was the undeserved reputation Mangini was already getting after one forgettable year as Belichick's DC. The idea being, if this is the guy Belichick is grooming, he must be worth stealing if they could make it happen. That this Belichick-disciple was viewed as a disciplinarian was surely welcomed at the end of Herm's tenure. How would Woody even know to look to Mangini as an option who might defect from New England to the team Belichick hated most of all? It was newly promoted GM Tannenbaum, not Woody, as they both started out as intern types on the Parcells Jets. Woody surely was part of the decision, but was in no position to overrule this strong recommendation because he didn't know anybody and was just cucked publicly by the Chiefs.

Rex = a defensive hire. The thing I'll say that is accurate about Woody's hires is they go full-swing from charmless disciplinarians like Groh and Mangini to the polar opposite in Herm and Rex. Not just a correction, but a total over-correction. Rex was probably the first hire that truly had Woody's stamp on it. Woody was the one who fired Mangini after saying - earlier that season - he was safe. Certainly Tannenbaum wasn't firing his buddy, and so began the process of Jets HCs inheriting lame duck Jets GMs and vice versa, which continues to this day after a one-time interruption to sneak in the Maccanan-Bowles error. At least it wasn't going to be a defensive hire who'd immediately require - for the third consecutive regime - gutting the defense to flip-flop personnel to fit a rigidly different scheme (Parcells/Groh > Herm > Mangini before that). Passed over for the Ravens' HC promotion in favor of Special Teams Coach Harbaugh, Rex was a successful and brash and loudmouthed DC who convinced Woody he was actually born into the Jets family from his dad; a rare connection to the franchise's lone Super Bowl victory (or even its only appearance ffs). And so it began.

Prior to the Rex hire, they unsuccessfully tried to woo Cowher to quickly un-retire. HC hires and candidates around the league that year were almost exclusively defensive coaches: Cowher, Rex, Schwartz, Spagnuolo, and the recently-fired Mangini. Tampa fired Gruden and promoted DC Raheem Morris. Looking it up, it appears only offense-side HC hire was Josh McDaniels, and I don't think anyone interviewed Gruden that month after he was canned, and Rex was hired 5 days later. His last year continued the asynchronous inheriting of coaches + GMs, with Korn-Ferry recommending Idzik, who was told he'd get to hire his own HC if/when Rex fell on his face in 2013. After an 8-8 finish, despite a depleted roster with a lot of trash, that was taken out of Idzik's hands.

After a disastrous draft class in '14, and an unsuccessful attempt at trading his way out of a bunch of receiver-pick busts by bringing in Percy Harvin by the trade deadline, followed by that cringy Idzik press conference that probably sealed his fate as much as his lack of success - Woody had never fired someone so quickly before or since - then came a full housecleaning: both GM Idzik and HC Rex getting fired at the same time. The only time since Groh and Parcells quit in early 2001. 

Charley Casserly with his embarrassingly bad toupee was retained to help with the GM search, and he brought in a longtime buddy/supplicant of his, rather than an actual search among all candidates. In going with this obvious nepotism-like recommendation, Woody hired the emptyheaded Mike Maccagnan, who in turn recommended they hire Todd Bowles.

Bowles = again the defensive hire, but again it was due to a strong recommendation from those who would know better than Woody alone. Like plenty of others around the league, he was viewed as such a competent coordinator any team would be lucky to have him as their HC. Another polar-opposite personality swing, too, from the loud and cartoonish Rex to the decidedly mild-mannered Bowles. Bowles had been a fine DC and defensive coach, but that didn't translate to being HC here, nor even to helping Maccagnan rebuild to field a dominant Jets defense. I'll say this, he was surely the nicest human this franchise has ever hired. You'd want him as a friend and next-door neighbor for all your life. But as a HC - particularly as a first-time HC like all the post-Parcells hires before him - he was in over his head being in charge of everyone. Truth is while a HC doesn't have to be an a-hole, he probably needs to be harder than the soft and super-nice Bowles. At least he coached the team to a 10-win season his first year here, which hasn't been repeated since.

Maccagnan was retained, since Johnson family Fredo Chris Johnson was in no position to oversee hiring a new GM himself, and Fredo had just given both Bowles and Maccagnan outright extensions the prior offseason, as rewards for their collective failures. JFC, this franchise. 

Gase = an offensive HC hire, which was all but the stated goal after a string of defensive HCs. Gase wasn't the first choice. It was Matt Rhule, mentioned above. They also showed interest in McCarthy. I on the strong recommendation I think the tie breaker went to Gase over McCarthy, who'd kind of earned a reputation as being an empty suit without a HOF QB in his prime. Why that reputation didn't extend even more to Gase is a mystery, but anyway I can understand taking Peyton Manning's judgment over Woody Johnson's or Mike Maccagnan's. Anyway both were recently-fired, offensive-minded HCs.

Saleh = a defensive HC hire. Like Bowles, was widely viewed as one of the smart coordinators making the much-earned leap to HC. SF had a defense of elite players, so it's not like he at all made chicken salad out of chicken poop out there. Not much need to expand, as the discussion of the current coach has been discussed to death and will continue through the rest of another facepalm season of Jets football. 

But the summary is these weren't the results of seeking out defensive coaches over offensive ones. Each had its reasons for his hire at the time, and none were because of a Woody Johnson philosophy of "We have to do something about this porous defense, because defense wins championships." 

Prior to Saleh?  

• Parcells recommendation >
• Bradway and NFL league-office recommendation >
• BB tree hire from Tannenbaum recommendation > a
• year when there were no offensive HCs hired outside of Josh McDaniels >
• Casserly-Maccagnan recommendation >
• Peyton Manning recommendation > 
• The wrong coordinator from the Shanahan tree among Mike McDaniel, DeMeco Ryans, and Robert Saleh. 

 

 

...2000 words -- not bad. Thanks for reading.

All of this. The thing that gets me with HC hires is that they should never come from the DC pool unless (1) you already have an elite QB in place (in which case you're unlikely to be hiring a HC, but it happens ... rarely) or (2) they can bring with them a top-tier OC who is also too old for serious HC consideration.

The most important position on the field is QB. QB success requires offensive vision and continuity. And if that vision and continuity is coming from your OC instead of from your HC, there's a real risk that if he does well you're going to lose that OC to another team's head coaching vacancy. 

That's not to say DCs can't make great head coaches - McDermott in Buffalo is a recent example, though it helps that they drafted a stud QB and then managed to hold onto his OC for long enough to get Allen to that elite QB level (at which point the lack of continuity isn't as big of a concern). But the odds are that sustainable success in the league requires a HC who can work to get the most out of your QB. It's not the only required trait of a HC, but if you can't find a guy on the offensive side of the ball who you think has the other necessary HC qualities, you probably shouldn't have fired your last coach.

[doitny]

you know why we havent had a good HC???? because we dont ever have a QB.

if Rex had one we would have 2 SBs and there would be a statue of him outside 1 Jets Dr. 

if Zach was any good Saleh would be loved here. how much you guys going to love him if we win 10-11 games next year with Rodgers? probably not love him at all since most of your minds are already made up with him.

the guy that worked under Saleh in SF and got his old job and the guy who worked under MLF and got his old job look pretty good in Houston because they have a QB. both 1st time guys.

Daboll has the worst passing offense in the NFL. yeah Cutlets is a nice story but even Zach can have a few good games. and when he had a Healthy Jones and Barkley they couldnt score or win.

Belichick failed in Cleveland and was 5-11 the year before Brady started.

doesnt matter if you got a OC/HC or a DC/HC and if he is brand new or has been a HC before if you dont have a QB you suck as a HC.

[Sperm Edwards]

38 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

All of this. The thing that gets me with HC hires is that they should never come from the DC pool unless (1) you already have an elite QB in place (in which case you're unlikely to be hiring a HC, but it happens ... rarely) or (2) they can bring with them a top-tier OC who is also too old for serious HC consideration.

The most important position on the field is QB. QB success requires offensive vision and continuity. And if that vision and continuity is coming from your OC instead of from your HC, there's a real risk that if he does well you're going to lose that OC to another team's head coaching vacancy. 

That's not to say DCs can't make great head coaches - McDermott in Buffalo is a recent example, though it helps that they drafted a stud QB and then managed to hold onto his OC for long enough to get Allen to that elite QB level (at which point the lack of continuity isn't as big of a concern). But the odds are that sustainable success in the league requires a HC who can work to get the most out of your QB. It's not the only required trait of a HC, but if you can't find a guy on the offensive side of the ball who you think has the other necessary HC qualities, you probably shouldn't have fired your last coach.

Yep. Better to tread water for 1 more season of half-unwatchable football with a HC you're ready to dump, rather than sink to the bottom by getting into bed with his no-better (and maybe worse) replacement for the next 3-5 seasons.

Ideally before they fire Saleh (if they fire Saleh) the next HC should already be more or less known before going through some sham interviews. Problem is the only one with pull here is Rodgers, and the coach he pulled in is Hackett, smh.

Firing Saleh and then going through the motions of searching and then hiring one of the leftover HC candidates who settled for the Jets job after getting turned down from every decent franchise -- particularly, as you bring up, a former DC when the team is also doing a QB search and development? Yeah, that hasn't really worked out that well here.

But I don't think DCs are a Woody fetish so much as it's just how things laid out, as I tried to outline above.

I couldn't agree more that, while they're looking to draft and soon start a rookie QB, hiring a first-time HC who was previously a DC seems to be going against the grain in terms of finding such success. They'd have to land one of those ultra-rare prospects who'd be a good or great QB right out of the gate no matter who coached them up in the pros (e.g. Stroud/DeMeco, and I'm struggling to think of the prior one). It's hard enough hitting the target on drafting a FQB without setting that further condition to make the target that much smaller. 

[jmat321]

22 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

McCarthy only wanted to coach the Jets. They decided Adam Gase who just failed with the Dolphins was a better choice. @T0mShane applauded the decision.

https://nypost.com/2019/01/14/jets-ceo-wants-fans-to-get-over-their-mike-mccarthy-regrets/

 

That was the jets side to the story from what I remember.  McCarthy had a different take.

 

[jmat321]

Keeping Rex after finishing 8-8 and missing out on the opportunity to pursue Andy Reid was Woody’s biggest mistake.  Giving the circumstances of what happened in Philly, jets may have had a shot with that one.

[BigRy56]

The only coordination Woody needs to fetish about is figuring out why Rodgers faked his achilles tear and took millions of dollars from the Jets just so we could hire his buddies while he sits on the beach doing the McAfee Show

[jetsruinedmylifeandhealth]

On 12/18/2023 at 5:14 PM, bitonti said:

Why does everyone drag McCarthy? He's 10-4 right now 

Should he be undefeated? 

 

And we had a chance at McCarthy. He wanted to be the HC here

[Ron Rico]

On 12/20/2023 at 5:25 AM, Rich Thornburgh said:

Woody has zero ability to evaluate coaches

Woody has zero abilities. He's a dunce who inherited wealth.

[Rich Thornburgh]

9 hours ago, Ron Rico said:

Woody has zero abilities. He's a dunce who inherited wealth.

[Rich Thornburgh]

23 hours ago, jetsruinedmylifeandhealth said:

And we had a chance at McCarthy. He wanted to be the HC here

Chris Johnson - master debater