the genius that is joe

[bitonti]

30 minutes ago, rangerous said:

Saleh didn’t 

We’re lucky Ulbrich has worked out.

without Saleh around, Ulbrich is just a regular coach 

it's Saleh's defense and that's what Saleh does 

that and be a hype man 

 

[bitonti]

25 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Tippmann looks promising (and I think IV does too though he did seem like a luxury pick).  DJ Reed.  Quincy Williams.  MC II.   I'm sure there are some others.

But his W/L record is impossible to defend.

i mean if we want to be generous Ashtyn Davis turned out OK and Ruckert shows flashes

remember how long it took him to find a kicker though? Remember Kaare Vedvik? Remember Braden Mann (and then cutting Morestead only to resign him?) 

Joe douglas is a random number generator sometimes he drafts OROY and DROY at the same times sometimes he craps out and drafts Zach Wilson at 2 overall 

When I first started posting on the board 20+ years ago people would mock me by saying "you think you could do a better job than the professionals?" 

now we're at a point where literally any 14 year old who plays madden could do a better job running the Jets 

[Jet_Engine1]

20 minutes ago, bitonti said:

without Saleh around, Ulbrich is just a regular coach 

it's Saleh's defense and that's what Saleh does 

that and be a hype man 

 

[Prodigal Syndicate]

Convinced some of you have some sort of mental illness to still defend Douglas.

 

What more could you possibly need to see lmao

[The Engineer]

5 hours ago, kmnj said:

Joe is a poor gm as shown by his poor record but what he is a genius at is protecting his job-every year there is a " reason" why joe needs another year and" now is not the time to replace him" even though his record sucks- 

his team sucks, his total record as a gm sucks  but nope you cant get rid of him because of Arod. We bought into Arod so we have to  keep Joe and Saleh-who bought into Arod the same guy that we cant get rid of because of Arod-pure genius-

it is always something,  i t was not joe it was gase who ran the draft, hey we have a new qb he needs time, he we have a new coach, we have a new oc, we have a new 40 year old qb, our 40 year old qb is hurt but we have to keep Joe because Joe brought in Arod.

I suspect next year he fires Saleh hires a new coach and we cant fire Joe then because his new coach needs time to get his plan in place-and who will come here with new gm we have to keep Joe....years from now we will be talking about how Joe continues to lose at historical rates but we cant fire Joe it is not the time....

 

 

 

 

 

Your mom is going to take away your internet privileges if you keep talking like this

[Ron Rico]

5 hours ago, kmnj said:

Joe is a poor gm as shown by his poor record but what he is a genius at is protecting his job-every year there is a " reason" why joe needs another year and" now is not the time to replace him" even though his record sucks- 

his team sucks, his total record as a gm sucks  but nope you cant get rid of him because of Arod. We bought into Arod so we have to  keep Joe and Saleh-who bought into Arod the same guy that we cant get rid of because of Arod-pure genius-

it is always something,  i t was not joe it was gase who ran the draft, hey we have a new qb he needs time, he we have a new coach, we have a new oc, we have a new 40 year old qb, our 40 year old qb is hurt but we have to keep Joe because Joe brought in Arod.

I suspect next year he fires Saleh hires a new coach and we cant fire Joe then because his new coach needs time to get his plan in place-and who will come here with new gm we have to keep Joe....years from now we will be talking about how Joe continues to lose at historical rates but we cant fire Joe it is not the time....

 

 

 

 

 

yeah, pretty much. 

[Ron Rico]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

 

Joe douglas is a random number generator sometimes he drafts OROY and DROY at the same times sometimes he craps out and drafts Zach Wilson at 2 overall 

 

He trades two 2nd round picks to move up to draft a Guard. LOL

His big claim to fame is trading away 3 first rounders drafted by previous regimes (Adams, Leonard Williams and Darnold) and drafting Breece, Garrett, and Sauce. 

Everything else is total sh*t, hence the 25-54 record. He should have been fired at least twice already. But this is Woody World, so this meathead gets to wreck another offseason. It's unbelievable. 

[southparkcpa]

10 minutes ago, Ron Rico said:

He trades two 2nd round picks to move up to draft a Guard. LOL

His big claim to fame is trading away 3 first rounders drafted by previous regimes (Adams, Leonard Williams and Darnold) and drafting Breece, Garrett, and Sauce. 

Everything else is total sh*t, hence the 25-54 record. He should have been fired at least twice already. But this is Woody World, so this meathead gets to wreck another offseason. It's unbelievable. 

Ive been saying this for a while. He is a poor evaluator of talent.   Poor draft GM and in 4 years has been not been better than MAC. Look at their records.

[Ron Rico]

Just now, southparkcpa said:

Ive been saying this for a while. He is a poor evaluator of talent.   Poor draft GM and in 4 years has been not been better than MAC. Look at their records.

He's a fraud.

[Jetpain]

3 hours ago, varjet said:

 

Woody is not cleaning house for 2024.  I do think he needs to think long and hard about pulling the plug on this gang for 2025 if it does not work out.  that is when I would do a total reboot. 

What exactly does a successful 2024 season look like that Woody extends Saleh and JD ?  9-8 record and lose wild card game ?  Or is it division title and home playoff game ?  

[Ron Rico]

22 minutes ago, Jetpain said:

What exactly does a successful 2024 season look like that Woody extends Saleh and JD ?  9-8 record and lose wild card game ?  Or is it division title and home playoff game ?  

Unless Aaron Rasputin plays 17 games next year, the Jets are looking at another sub 500 won loss record. 

[Robert]

6 hours ago, bitonti said:

the biggest con was the multi year rebuild 

other teams turn it around in 2 or 3 years

Joe sold ownership and fans that he needed 5 or 6 years to clear out all the bad Mac and Idzik contracts 

completely ludicrous

there's no such thing as a multi year rebuild in a league where 15-20 percent of the roster churns every year and the players average career is less than 3 years

there's no rebuilding there's only reloading

now aaron says they just need to reload it's like yeah they could have been doing that the whole time 

and by the way, now Joe Douglas has saddled this franchise with the worst most toxic contract of them all, Aaron's. Worse than anything Mac or Idzik did as it goes

and he has a worse w-l record than those two bums, given longer time

OP is correct Joe Douglas is amazing at keeping his job. everything else he's meh at 

Great points. The natural churn is massive relatively speaking. Joe is a putz.

[batman10023]

5 hours ago, bitonti said:

In a vacuum no it's not crazy to pay a top 15 qb about 35 mil a year 

However the contract has void years until 2028 and it makes Aaron Rodgers the highest paid player in franchise history 

Now throw in Hackett the worst coordinator in league history (stats prove this about the 2023 offense it's not an opinion) 

How about 2 second round picks? Dropping two slots in Rd 1? That's essentially a late third Rd pick. 

What about the other 6 worthless players he came with? (Amos, Boyle, Cobb, cook, lazard and Turner)

And of course Rodgers play which is TBD at best and at worst he's washed. That play he got hurt everyone blamed the line but it was a 2 second play to wilson who was open, Rodgers passed it up held it until 4 one thousand and got crushed. 

He's not a top 15 qb he's washed and should be retired like Namath with the rams. There's no good outcome here he's either going to be a massive dead cap hit or he is going to be a washed old dude with zero mobility who should be retired 

I was just asking about the contract.  The other stuff many agree with. 

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

6 hours ago, bitonti said:

the biggest con was the multi year rebuild 

other teams turn it around in 2 or 3 years

Joe sold ownership and fans that he needed 5 or 6 years to clear out all the bad Mac and Idzik contracts 

completely ludicrous

there's no such thing as a multi year rebuild in a league where 15-20 percent of the roster churns every year and the players average career is less than 3 years

there's no rebuilding there's only reloading

now aaron says they just need to reload it's like yeah they could have been doing that the whole time 

and by the way, now Joe Douglas has saddled this franchise with the worst most toxic contract of them all, Aaron's. Worse than anything Mac or Idzik did as it goes

and he has a worse w-l record than those two bums, given longer time

OP is correct Joe Douglas is amazing at keeping his job. everything else he's meh at 

They gave him six years in June. JUNE. They were the only game in town. Everybody else does this in January. How do they get stuck on one guy and get held up for extra years? Gets a pass for 2019 right off the bat. Pass for 2020 because he knew he could get away with one more year of Darnold and Gase. Pass for 2021 because now we’re finally in year one. First whisper of accountability in 2022 and LOOK OVER THERE ITS AARON RODGERS. Dude literally bargained for lack of accountability in the first place, don’t expect him to do the job any different from how he got it.

[RedBeardedSavage]

5 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I agree with a lot of this. 
 

I actually think there is a decent chance that Rodgers plays reasonably well for us next year. I agree that he’ll be hella motivated. 
 

My big issue is that I think there is a third major problem: Saleh is probably a bad head coach and I think our ceiling is ultimately limited with him.

 

I think when you lose 34-13 and 30-0 to the same team in the span of 3 weeks, it suggests there is a tremendous disparity in either talent or coaching between the two teams - and I think it’s coaching. The kicker is that Miami was super banged up for the second matchup (no Hill, no starting center, no starting right guard) and the Jets got blown out again, but even worse. Not a good sign for the coaching staff. 
 

Saleh is 3-14 in the division and 7 of those 14 losses have been by 3 or more scores. He also has a losing record with extra time to prepare. And then there is the fact that his team has collapsed down the stretch of back to back seasons (he still only has 1 win in December and January combined - lol).

These are all red flags for bad coaching, IMO. There is just a lot of evidence that Saleh is bad at preparing the team to play and I don’t see that magically going away on its own. 

I’d feel MUCH better about our future if we nuked this coaching staff after the season and hired an offensive head coach. 

This is where it's difficult - If I was told we could fire the head coach, and everyone involved on the offense, hire Ben Johnson and keep Jeff Ulbrich and his defensive staff? I'd sign up for that. 

But I saw McVay go 5-12 last year when his offensive line was trash and Stafford was injured. 

I don't fault Saleh for Rodgers' injury or all the JD failures on the offensive line. 

I don't think there's a coach in this league that would've "done well" putting Zach Wilson behind the 32nd offensive line.

[jeremy2020]

3 hours ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

Convinced some of you have some sort of mental illness to still defend Douglas.

 

What more could you possibly need to see lmao

Gotta let him complete the 12 year plan, man. 1st GM we've had with a plan!

[Ron Rico]

21 minutes ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

They gave him six years in June. JUNE. They were the only game in town. Everybody else does this in January. How do they get stuck on one guy and get held up for extra years? Gets a pass for 2019 right off the bat. Pass for 2020 because he knew he could get away with one more year of Darnold and Gase. Pass for 2021 because now we’re finally in year one. First whisper of accountability in 2022 and LOOK OVER THERE ITS AARON RODGERS. Dude literally bargained for lack of accountability in the first place, don’t expect him to do the job any different from how he got it.

If you like what you seen this year, Jets fans, you're going to love the next 3 seasons of this Rasputin's contract. He totally rooked Woody for... alot of money.

LMFAO

[Jetsplayer21]

7 hours ago, kmnj said:

Joe is a poor gm as shown by his poor record but what he is a genius at is protecting his job-every year there is a " reason" why joe needs another year and" now is not the time to replace him" even though his record sucks- 

his team sucks, his total record as a gm sucks  but nope you cant get rid of him because of Arod. We bought into Arod so we have to  keep Joe and Saleh-who bought into Arod the same guy that we cant get rid of because of Arod-pure genius-

it is always something,  i t was not joe it was gase who ran the draft, hey we have a new qb he needs time, he we have a new coach, we have a new oc, we have a new 40 year old qb, our 40 year old qb is hurt but we have to keep Joe because Joe brought in Arod.

I suspect next year he fires Saleh hires a new coach and we cant fire Joe then because his new coach needs time to get his plan in place-and who will come here with new gm we have to keep Joe....years from now we will be talking about how Joe continues to lose at historical rates but we cant fire Joe it is not the time....

 

 

 

 

 

Joe has to be fired before Saleh. He bares the sole responsibility of assembling worst OL, worst offense in NFL now 2 years in a row. He will probably be fired along with Saleh once AR retires. 

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, Jetpain said:

What exactly does a successful 2024 season look like that Woody extends Saleh and JD ?  9-8 record and lose wild card game ?  Or is it division title and home playoff game ?  

Rodgers is healthy and plays well, they stay. Gets hurt again or doesn’t do well, they are gone. 

[Ron Rico]

1 minute ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Joe has to be fired before Saleh. He bares the sole responsibility of assembling worst OL, worst offense in NFL now 2 years in a row. He will probably be fired along with Saleh once AR retires. 

This should have been done last year. Fire JD and Saleh goes, too. Nope, Woody World keeps the meathead so he can trainwreck the team even more. This is unbelievable. 

[Jetsplayer21]

4 minutes ago, Ron Rico said:

This should have been done last year. Fire JD and Saleh goes, too. Nope, Woody World keeps the meathead so he can trainwreck the team even more. This is unbelievable. 

I don’t think the best gms want to work for woody. Doesn’t seem like woody is willing to pay the big bucks for top tier gm who will want all the control. Likes the whipping boys like JD. 

[Ron Rico]

4 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

I don’t think the best gms want to work for woody. Doesn’t seem like woody is willing to pay the big bucks for top tier gm who will want all the control. Likes the whipping boys like JD. 

No doubt. He's a meddler. 

[southparkcpa]

1 hour ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Joe has to be fired before Saleh. He bares the sole responsibility of assembling worst OL, worst offense in NFL now 2 years in a row. He will probably be fired along with Saleh once AR retires. 

If i could only fire 1 person…. It’s JD by a mile an incompetent Fukk.  

[Jetsplayer21]

10 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

If i could only fire 1 person…. It’s JD by a mile an incompetent Fukk.  

I was watching Gronk on McAfee show . They were talking about Brady deciding to go to the bucks. At first he was a little surprised, then he said he realized how stacked that team was. On offense and defense. REAL talent. He was saying Brady knew what he was doing. He wasn’t going there for the good weather. He saw a great team that was just missing a qb. Todd bowels could have been the HC, it didn’t matter.
 

  TALENT is what wins. Which team has more. That is the gm’s job. Why JD has FAILED miserably. Put that Tampa team side by side comparison with jets now. It’s not even close. Yet they expect Aaron rodgers to do the exact same thing as Brady did there. 

[slimjasi]

13 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

This is where it's difficult - If I was told we could fire the head coach, and everyone involved on the offense, hire Ben Johnson and keep Jeff Ulbrich and his defensive staff? I'd sign up for that. 

But I saw McVay go 5-12 last year when his offensive line was trash and Stafford was injured. 

I don't fault Saleh for Rodgers' injury or all the JD failures on the offensive line. 

I don't think there's a coach in this league that would've "done well" putting Zach Wilson behind the 32nd offensive line.

If this were year 1, it would be a different story. But we’ve seen three years of the same bad coaching trends - repeated blowout losses, non-competitive play in the division, bad losses with extra time to prepare, and almost 0 wins in December and January. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

If this were year 1, it would be a different story. But we’ve seen three years of the same bad coaching trends - repeated blowout losses, non-competitive play in the division, bad losses with extra time to prepare, and almost 0 wins in December and January. 

Yeah, but again, I can't realistically see any coach "scheming up a good gameplan" with Zach Wilson behind the worst offensive line in the league.

Last year we were trotting out Connor McDermmitt at tackle in a Zack-Attack-led-offense.

It's difficult to cook with those ingredients. 

[Dcat]

20 hours ago, bitonti said:

 

Joe sold ownership and fans that he needed 5 or 6 years to clear out all the bad Mac and Idzik contracts 

completely ludicrous

You made this up.  Joe Douglas never claimed that he needed any number of years, let alone 5-6, to clean house.

You TOTALLY fabricated this.  What the hell is wrong with you?  Now you make stuff up to support your position?  WTF?

[Integrity28]

20 hours ago, bitonti said:

the biggest con was the multi year rebuild 

other teams turn it around in 2 or 3 years

2-3 years is “multi-year”, fyi.

That said, I say it all the time, the idea of a “rebuild” is simple PR speak for “we can’t sell a good product, so instead we sell hope”. It’s a farce. It’s about finding the right people, not following some sort of process to get there eventually.

[#27TheDominator]

21 hours ago, bitonti said:

the biggest con was the multi year rebuild 

other teams turn it around in 2 or 3 years

Joe sold ownership and fans that he needed 5 or 6 years to clear out all the bad Mac and Idzik contracts 

completely ludicrous

there's no such thing as a multi year rebuild in a league where 15-20 percent of the roster churns every year and the players average career is less than 3 years

there's no rebuilding there's only reloading

now aaron says they just need to reload it's like yeah they could have been doing that the whole time 

and by the way, now Joe Douglas has saddled this franchise with the worst most toxic contract of them all, Aaron's. Worse than anything Mac or Idzik did as it goes

and he has a worse w-l record than those two bums, given longer time

OP is correct Joe Douglas is amazing at keeping his job. everything else he's meh at 

I agree completely that these generational rebuilds are a joke.  I don't blame Douglas or think he sold anyone on the concept though.  It really started with Maccagnan.  He started off with a clean slate after Idzik cleaned up whatever Tannenbaum left and bought his way to a non playoff 10-6, then had to "clean house" to "rebuild."  That gave him 2016, then we needed a QB, and somehow were sold on waiting for the "historic QB Class! of 2018.  After all that we got to switch coaches to develop that QB.  Luckily the sh*tty OC that we hired as HC saw through this charade and got him canned.

Douglas rode out the Gase year and then tanked the following year for a reset.  Considering the way Gase seemed to check out and the fact that Douglas didn't bring him in, I was okay with that.  The rebuild from 2021 went as expected, suck in 2021, improved/competitive in 2022.  The issue is that they were very good in the first half of the 2022 and completely sucked down the stretch.  Some here complain about "hiring another DC" and think they only care about defensive stats, well through the Flacco era of 2022, I thought the D would continue to suck and the O was looking good if missing a true QB.  Things did not pan out that way, did they? 

I get that some see 2024 as a lost season in waiting, but if they believed that 2023 would be good with Rodgers there isn't much reason to get off that plan now.  In fact, there are many that would think this way was better.  We keep the 1st and learned a few things - particularly about the receiving options, or lack thereof.  I think things look worse because they were a top tier team and then the lowest of the low both years.  I'm sure the perception would be different if they were just mid-tier, but most of us prefer the extremes.  I also don't know what to make of the fact that they knocked off some top level teams while sh*tting the bed against the Pats and Falcons.  

I am not one to give up the future for an extra win this year, but there is something to be said for going into each season giving yourself the best chance to win.  That might mean taking some lumps early getting rookies some reps or signing and extra receiver even though you know you probably aren't going to be able to cut Cobb, Lazard, or Hardman.  It will be interesting to see how they approach 2024.  In particular on the OL.  I would say not to be surprised or alarmed if they sign Bakhtiari.  Be alarmed if they hand him a job, but if he is really a Rodgers friend and comes in cheap as a 3rd OT with Warren and Mitchell as 4 and 5, I don't see that as the horror that most will. 

[slimjasi]

59 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Yeah, but again, I can't realistically see any coach "scheming up a good gameplan" with Zach Wilson behind the worst offensive line in the league.

Last year we were trotting out Connor McDermmitt at tackle in a Zack-Attack-led-offense.

It's difficult to cook with those ingredients. 

Maybe you’re right. My take is that despite the injuries on offense, we’ve underachieved. I think a better coach would have found a way to keep some of these games closer and found a way to avoid back to back late season collapses. I don’t think you can lose by a combined score of 64-13 to the same team in the span of 3 weeks and say the coaching staff is doing a good job (especially when that team played the second game with several backup OL and without their best player!)
 

I think Saleh runs a loose ship and I think his team is soft. They constantly use phrases like “making sure we have fun” and “letting it rip” - It makes me think the priority is having a good experience instead of winning at ALL costs.  My sense is that they aren’t quite desperate to win, like the best organizations. The best teams always have a little healthy tension in the building - a little bit of walking on egg shells is a good thing. It’s always good to know that there will be consequences for not performing. I just don’t sense any of that with this regime. 
 

We’ll find out next year how he does with Rodgers and (hopefully) a better OL, but I am NOT impressed with Saleh, to say the least. I’d also really just love an offensive coach. 

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

20 hours ago, THE BARON said:

So,.. Please Joe.  Keep your head out of your ass.

[bitonti]

57 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

don't blame Douglas

I noticed the words Zach wilson weren't in your post 

The reason why Joe's amazing plans fell apart is because he couldn't find a qb.

Zach wilson is the worst draft pick in Jets history and Aaron Rodgers is the worst trade in Jets history. It's that simple 

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

You made this up.  Joe Douglas never claimed that he needed any number of years, let alone 5-6, to clean house.

You TOTALLY fabricated this.  What the hell is wrong with you?  Now you make stuff up to support your position?  WTF?

There was a whole thing at the start of his contract that he needed the 6th year to undo the Mac and idzik mess

Now here we are year 5 and the team is worse than when he arrived 

The Adam gase 7-9 year is still the high water mark of the Joe Douglas era 

[DonCorleone]

19 hours ago, varjet said:

I share your frustration, and don't think you are wrong, but by cleaning house now, because of the cap hits we are basically guaranteed a disaster season next year.  I don't think that is what Woody wants.

If we stay the course on the two year AR8 plan, it is POSSIBLE that next season can be competitive.  Not guaranteed-possible.

Yes, the hangover after AR8 goes will be bad, but you can't do worse than winning 0 games.  I think that is what next year would look like with a redo.

Woody is not cleaning house for 2024.  I do think he needs to think long and hard about pulling the plug on this gang for 2025 if it does not work out.  that is when I would do a total reboot. 

I see your point and you come to an educated conclusion. I just need to ask, what does retaining JD and Saleh accomplish? They are not able to build and run a balanced team. Rodgers is play-to-play in my opinion, one good hit, and who knows?

There is nothing to be gained by running this team out yet again, do you trust JD and Saleh to get it right?

[RedBeardedSavage]

30 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Maybe you’re right. My take is that despite the injuries on offense, we’ve underachieved. I think a better coach would have found a way to keep some of these games closer and found a way to avoid back to back late season collapses. I don’t think you can lose by a combined score of 64-13 to the same team in the span of 3 weeks and say the coaching staff is doing a good job (especially when that team played the second game with several backup OL and without their best player!)
 

I think Saleh runs a loose ship and I think his team is soft. They constantly use phrases like “making sure we have fun” and “letting it rip” - It makes me think the priority is having a good experience instead of winning at ALL costs.  My sense is that they aren’t quite desperate to win, like the best organizations. The best teams always have a little healthy tension in the building - a little bit of walking on egg shells is a good thing. It’s always good to know that there will be consequences for not performing. I just don’t sense any of that with this regime. 
 

We’ll find out next year how he does with Rodgers and (hopefully) a better OL, but I am NOT impressed with Saleh, to say the least. I’d also really just love an offensive coach. 

I understand where you're coming from - and blowout losses make all of us angry. 

And of course, when you're the head coach, it's your responsibility - even if it isn't always your fault (or your "greatness", see BB in NE without Brady).

Sometimes I wonder if we just make this thing more complicated than they are;

• Andy Reid and Mahomes, even with Kelce, a good offensive line and a damn good defense, look somewhat pedestrian (by their standards), because they've done such a poor job at replacing Tyreek.
• Add Montez Sweat to a mediocre Bears defense? Suddenly they're playing well.
• Lamar's Ravens finally add some talent @ receiver and don't get plagued by injuries? They're 11-3

Do you have a quarterback? And is your roster good? - Those two questions essentially dictate the success of a coach. 

Our offensive line sucks and, once Rodgers went down, our quarterback play was trash. In my opinion, neither one of those is on the coach. 

The worst part about this is that we'll have to wait another year. But I feel like we all kinda knew that four plays into the first game anyway. I was legit angry for a month after that happened. But now? Now I'm in "Which left tackle will we draft? Who is that guard Dotson from the Rams that's a FA? Where can we find a RT?"