Coach sends a clear message to the fans

[WeCantDraftGoodQBs]

13 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

The hate for this guy is absolutely wild to me. 

All the same posters that have been saying since the fourth play that "season is over because now Bieber is the quarterback again", now are saying the coach is a fraud.

I get the frustration, for sure, but I just don't get how it all falls on the coach. 

What coach is taking Zach Wilson and the 32nd ranked offensive line to the playoffs? 

The Rams had 5 wins last year when Stafford was injured. 

I agree that any team who has the 32nd ranked offensive line is not going to win many games and will never make the playoffs.

The question is who is responsible for our team having the 32nd ranked offensive line?

 

[Dcat]

3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I really can't  believe we are going to have to endure another year of this. 

The thought of watching Saleh... no, listening to Saleh for another year is nauseating.

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 minute ago, GangGreened said:

This coach has more DOUBLE DIGIT LOSSES in his career than WINS. 
 

but you don’t understand the hate for him?

I'm unpacking the context, not just the results. I saw the Rams win 5 games last year when Stafford went down. If you don't have a quarterback and your offensive line sucks, no coach is going to win.

[RedBeardedSavage]

10 hours ago, Hex said:

It extends well past what QB is playing and the state of the offense.

Many players have regressed on offense under his leadership. Penalties are becoming incredible liabilities and clock management is often abysmal. Saleh loses the locker room twice a season and his press conferences don't help. He's been here since 2021 and he's pumping out the same results. 

Being a head coach means getting the best out of players, and Saleh seems to be doing the opposite.

That's the reasoning behind why we hate his coaching ability.

I think the defense, other than yesterday and v the Dolphins - two teams with 11 wins at the back-end of the Rodgers-gets-injured-immediately-after-an-overhyped-offseason - has generally been good for two seasons. We've developed players on that side of the ball and they've done well against some good offenses both this season and last.

Offense, I mean, I agree, but at what point - and this is the larger point in this thread - does the talent-on-the-field dictate success on offense? Breece and Garrett are great, but if you can't open a hole and are unable to protect an incompetent quarterback, how the F are you supposed to score? 

Like what are we expecting anyone to "scheme up" with this group of 11 on offense? 

[RedBeardedSavage]

9 minutes ago, WeCantDraftGoodQBs said:

I agree that any team who has the 32nd ranked offensive line is not going to win many games and will never make the playoffs.

The question is who is responsible for our team having the 32nd ranked offensive line?

 

[varjet]

As we have discussed before, players and coaches don’t and can’t tank.  

If the GM/Owner wants to tank, he changes the roster or fires the coach. 

Woody’s decision on the QB room basically tanked the season-in the NFL, you are either a playoff team, or you are not.  I won’t go as far as to say you are a SB team or not.  With ZW as QB2, this team was not a playoff team.   You can’t have incompetent play at any position on a football team to be a playoff team.  The Jets are not getting competent play on the OL generally, C maybe the exception.  

The only way we are a playoff team next year is to get a LT.  It will be hard to get one in FA.  We need to pick top 5 to get one in the draft.  We missed that by beating the Commanders.

JD had his Tank Commander on the roster-Tim Boyle.   We all know that Siemian is better than Boyle.  The best thing this team could have done for the future was to lose out and draft a starting LT.   I am not buying with this team that we needed to build culture and win.  This team is a do over next year.  There will be at least 4 new offensive starters. 

[Trotter]

6 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I think the defense, other than yesterday and v the Dolphins - two teams with 11 wins at the back-end of the Rodgers-gets-injured-immediately-after-an-overhyped-offseason - has generally been good for two seasons. We've developed players on that side of the ball and they've done well against some good offenses both this season and last.

Offense, I mean, I agree, but at what point - and this is the larger point in this thread - does the talent-on-the-field dictate success on offense? Breece and Garrett are great, but if you can't open a hole and are unable to protect an incompetent quarterback, how the F are you supposed to score? 

Like what are we expecting anyone to "scheme up" with this group of 11 on offense? 

See for me one of the issues I see is the defense reading their hype and more importantly the coaching staff buying into this elite crap.

They are good and in need of several position upgrades.

Is this coaching staff smart enough to see that and act or is it going to be fix the ol, add a receiver and with Rodgers, magically they are a playoff team?

I am all for Rodgers but it simply ain't happening unless both sides are improved and significantly.

I just don't see that happening with this GM and coaching staff.

Hope to hell I am wrong.

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 minute ago, Trotter said:

See for me one of the issues I see is the defense reading their hype and more importantly the coaching staff buying into this elite crap.

They are good and in need of several position upgrades.

Is this coaching staff smart enough to see that and act or is it going to be fix the ol, add a receiver and with Rodgers, magically they are a playoff team?

I am all for Rodgers but it simply ain't happening unless both sides are improved and significantly.

I just don't see that happening with this GM and coaching staff.

Hope to hell I am wrong.

This, to me, is the heart of the issue - people are saying "coach" when they mean "GM".

Fat Joe controls the roster. I'm fairly certain, considering he's benched Zach Wilson in every season combined with the not-so-secret hate for Becton by the coaching staff, that Saleh does not have the final say on player personnel/roster.

Genuinely if we found two tackles, a guard, and AVT could stay healthy, then yea, if Rodgers came back? Sure, I do believe this team could be a playoff team. Also, replace the turf with grass. 

[jeremy2020]

The players are sending a clear message about the coach, but they're not gonna listen.

[Trotter]

2 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

This, to me, is the heart of the issue - people are saying "coach" when they mean "GM".

Fat Joe controls the roster. I'm fairly certain, considering he's benched Zach Wilson in every season combined with the not-so-secret hate for Becton by the coaching staff, that Saleh does not have the final say on player personnel/roster.

Genuinely if we found two tackles, a guard, and AVT could stay healthy, then yea, if Rodgers came back? Sure, I do believe this team could be a playoff team. Also, replace the turf with grass. 

Valid point.

The reason I say coach is an assumption.

I am making the assumption coach, GM and whoever else get in a room and discuss players. I am assuming if Saleh says I am good my starting 11 on defense, JD does not make a move to replace one of them or make an improvement.

Certainly I am not in the room but I would find it hard to beleive that JD says for example, Reed, Mosley and JFM are done - I am moving off regardless if the coaching staff beleives they still have life.

Either way, I just wish it was different people making those decisions

[slimjasi]

40 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Apologies for the brevity below - you're the man, Slim. Just have a bunch of hate for this post I woke up to this morning and I've gotta run through this quick and keep it moving:

• Pre-snap penalties while 3/5 of the offensive line, save for Becton and Laken (insert massive LOL here if these are your two "reliable" players), are backups
• Anybody with the last name Hackett should never coach offensive football. We all know why this dude is here - and that reasoning was only justifiable for the first three offensive plays of the season. 
• Stefanski is a dope coach, that roster (especially their offensive line and depth) is excellent, and Joe Flacco is an infinitely better quarterback than any Jets backup / Utah-based-quarterback-like-substance 
• Losing to the Dolphins and the Browns this year ... is expected. Those are both eleven-win teams - the Browns with the #1 defense and the Fish with close-to, if not the, most dangerous offense in the sport. We're trotting out Zach Wilson and the ghost of Trevor Siemien, behind the worst offensive line in the sport with Nate Hackett calling  "all curls, 3 yards short of the first down" on third down

If I had to name the top 5 things wrong with this team and this franchise, Saleh doesn't even crack it. 

I hear you, brother. And honestly, I do agree with a lot of this - the Browns roster is much better than ours, our QB and OL players are really bad, a lot of this is on Douglas, etc.,

 

I just have a big issue with the blowout losses. I just think a good coach finds a way to keep his team in most games, especially a defensive coach. 6 of our 10 losses have been total blowouts. And as good as the D has been at times, they have too many no-shows. 

I suspect this guy isn’t the right coach. Hope like Hell I’m wrong cuz he seems like a good guy and I personally liked the hire, but I’m not optimistic. 

 

[Maynard13]

14 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

The hate for this guy is absolutely wild to me. 

All the same posters that have been saying since the fourth play that "season is over because now Bieber is the quarterback again", now are saying the coach is a fraud.

I get the frustration, for sure, but I just don't get how it all falls on the coach. 

What coach is taking Zach Wilson and the 32nd ranked offensive line to the playoffs? 

The Rams had 5 wins last year when Stafford was injured. 

Saleh should be given some kind of award for even getting the team on the field when they thoroughly know they have like a 7.3% chance of winning any game with that offense. Again, the culprit is JD for failing to fix the offense in his time here. Inexcusable.

[RedBeardedSavage]

22 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I hear you, brother. And honestly, I do agree with a lot of this - the Browns roster is much better than ours, our QB and OL players are really bad, a lot of this is on Douglas, etc.,

 

I just have a big issue with the blowout losses. I just think a good coach finds a way to keep his team in most games, especially a defensive coach. 6 of our 10 losses have been total blowouts. And as good as the D has been at times, they have too many no-shows. 

I suspect this guy isn’t the right coach. Hope like Hell I’m wrong cuz he seems like a good guy and I personally liked the hire, but I’m not optimistic. 

 

Appreciate it, hombre.

And please don't confuse me with someone who equates Saleh to coaches like McVay or Stefanski. They're better coaches, full stop. Hell, I think we spoke about it in another thread, I'd roll the dice on Ben Johnson and fire Saleh tomorrow.

The blowout losses are frustrating and I'm just as miserable about them. 

I'm also just convinced that the justified anger at the product on the field every Sunday has been increasingly channeled toward the wrong target, IMO. 

Joe Douglas' tenure, sure, has its bright spots (Jamal Adams trade is laughably amazing, the Suace/G Wil/JJ II/Breece Hall draft was legendary, re-signing Quincy to a good deal, the DJ Reed acquisition), has been utterly horrendous on the other side of the ball - especially @ offensive line and quarterback. 

I simply cannot imagine a coach shaping this offense, with it's component parts the past three seasons, scheming up anything other than a bottom-of-the-league offense. 

And therefore I cannot imagine a team being so abysmal on offense, not suffering blowouts multiple times a year. No defense in the modern era is impenetrable. The days of the 2000 Ravens and 2002 Bucs are over. The game has changed. Even good defenses get into shootouts, and, for other teams, the offenses can bail them out those weeks and keep it close. 

That's just not in the cards for us or this coach. For us to win, we've had to be perfect on defense and win 17-13 with a defensive/special teams touchdown.

[Adoni Beast]

45 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I hear you, brother. And honestly, I do agree with a lot of this - the Browns roster is much better than ours, our QB and OL players are really bad, a lot of this is on Douglas, etc.,

 

I just have a big issue with the blowout losses. I just think a good coach finds a way to keep his team in most games, especially a defensive coach. 6 of our 10 losses have been total blowouts. And as good as the D has been at times, they have too many no-shows. 

I suspect this guy isn’t the right coach. Hope like Hell I’m wrong cuz he seems like a good guy and I personally liked the hire, but I’m not optimistic. 

 

I couldn’t agree more. Look at what Stefanski has done with a decimated OL + 4th QB.

[jetsruinedmylifeandhealth]

5 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I couldn’t agree more. Look at what Stefanski has done with a decimated OL + 4th QB.

The Browns tried to overcome adversity

Once Rodgers went down the Jets decided to tank the season and would not make any moves to pick up a real qb or do anything to help this team. 

[OilfieldJet]

2 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

And who has been the quarterback that entire time? What would you say was our average offensive line ranking?

 

17-32. Full Stop.

[bonkertons]

8 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I couldn’t agree more. Look at what Stefanski has done with a decimated OL + 4th QB.

FWIW, Hudson who was their RT last night was a 2021 4th rounder.  Hopefully seeing guys like that step in and do their job gives us a bit more patience with our own players like Mitchell(4th in '22) and Warren(4th in '23).

 

But yeah, teams like Cleveland and Detroit and Baltimore prove that you don't have to have an OL full of 1st round picks.  Miami has drafted one OL in the 1st in the last 7 drafts:  Austin Jackson.  18th overall pick.  Not exactly a Joe Alt type investment.  Perks of having great weapons, a good QB who can get rid of the ball quickly, and a coach who knows how to call plays.  

 

Not to say Hack can't call plays, but I'm not confident in him being able to call a successful game without Rodgers.  That said, if we need an OL full of 1st and 2nd rounders, chances are our coaching staff is god awful and that's the only way to compensate for it.  

[RedBeardedSavage]

27 minutes ago, OilfieldJet said:

17-32. Full Stop.

Three seasons of Zach Wilson @ quarterback.

There isn't a coach in this league that would've been successful in that situation. 

[Adoni Beast]

32 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

FWIW, Hudson who was their RT last night was a 2021 4th rounder.  Hopefully seeing guys like that step in and do their job gives us a bit more patience with our own players like Mitchell(4th in '22) and Warren(4th in '23).

 

But yeah, teams like Cleveland and Detroit and Baltimore prove that you don't have to have an OL full of 1st round picks.  Miami has drafted one OL in the 1st in the last 7 drafts:  Austin Jackson.  18th overall pick.  Not exactly a Joe Alt type investment.  Perks of having great weapons, a good QB who can get rid of the ball quickly, and a coach who knows how to call plays.  

 

Not to say Hack can't call plays, but I'm not confident in him being able to call a successful game without Rodgers.  That said, if we need an OL full of 1st and 2nd rounders, chances are our coaching staff is god awful and that's the only way to compensate for it.  

I’m less confident in Robert Saleh as a HC than I am of Nathaniel Hackett as an OC. While Hackett and MLF should not be absolved of their responsibility of poor offensive output…I believe that the HCs philosophy, lack of oversight, inept expertise permeates through the offense as a whole.

[extmenace]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

How did last week’s meaningless win carry over into last night’s game?

Answer:  it didn’t.  Meaningless wins don’t keep the locker room together, bring about a winning culture, or carry over.  They’re just meaningless except for weakening the draft slot.  

You anti-tankers are something else.  Just let people fan how they choose.  

It didn’t carry over, doesn’t mean we don’t want it to carry over though. I’m not necessarily an anti tanker either, I get it. Higher pick = better prospect or bigger return on a trade but I’m not going to sit down and watch an entire game rooting for the team to lose either. The losses do take a toll and hurt the team overall. A first round pick, regardless of how good that player winds up being, doesn’t fix much outside of a potential hole on the team.  The pro tankers ignore the negative aspects of it.

[OilfieldJet]

1 hour ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Three seasons of Zach Wilson @ quarterback.

There isn't a coach in this league that would've been successful in that situation. 

OK. Agree to disagree. I don't believe he is a good head coach. Penalties, game planning, game decisions, player play time/selection. If he leaves, I'll bet he is never a head coach in the NFL again.

[GangGreened]

4 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I'm unpacking the context, not just the results. I saw the Rams win 5 games last year when Stafford went down. If you don't have a quarterback and your offensive line sucks, no coach is going to win.

And look at the Browns this year.

I get it if he was a slightly below .500 coach or had some type of success in the past. But to have more double digit losses than wins, and 3 division wins in 3 years is UNACCEPTABLE. 

[Green Ghost]

18 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

The hate for this guy is absolutely wild to me. 

All the same posters that have been saying since the fourth play that "season is over because now Bieber is the quarterback again", now are saying the coach is a fraud.

I get the frustration, for sure, but I just don't get how it all falls on the coach. 

What coach is taking Zach Wilson and the 32nd ranked offensive line to the playoffs? 

The Rams had 5 wins last year when Stafford was injured. 

The Browns are on their 4th QB, have lost 3 starting OL and a Pro Bowl RB. They’ve had many more key injuries also.

They’re 11-4.

 

[RedBeardedSavage]

27 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

The Browns are on their 4th QB, have lost 3 starting OL and a Pro Bowl RB. They’ve had many more key injuries also.

They’re 11-4.

 

34 minutes ago, GangGreened said:

And look at the Browns this year.

I get it if he was a slightly below .500 coach or had some type of success in the past. But to have more double digit losses than wins, and 3 division wins in 3 years is UNACCEPTABLE. 

 

The Rams last year lost their quarterback, and even with McVay, won 5 games. The Dolphins, with Mike McDaniel, were 1-3 last year without Tua.

The Browns this year are the exception, not the rule.  

[GangGreened]

45 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

 

The Rams last year lost their quarterback, and even with McVay, won 5 games. The Dolphins, with Mike McDaniel, were 1-3 last year without Tua.

The Browns this year are the exception, not the rule.  

Colts? Bengals? The Giants won 3 straight games with Tommy Devito.

Again, there is no excuse for statistics I posted. It’s unacceptable.

 

[RedBeardedSavage]

35 minutes ago, GangGreened said:

Colts? Bengals? The Giants won 3 straight games with Tommy Devito.

Again, there is no excuse for statistics I posted. It’s unacceptable.

 

The Giants are a five-win team.

The Bengals had their Joe Burrow through most of November. 60% of their wins were with Burrow and they finish the season @ KC and against the Browns. Likely a losing season.

The Colts have Gardiner Minshew, a dude that could outright start on the Falcons, Raiders, and Patriots - not to mention be starting right now for every team with an injured starter and the Colts have a top 5 offensive line. 

[Green Ghost]

48 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

The Giants are a five-win team.

The Bengals had their Joe Burrow through most of November. 60% of their wins were with Burrow and they finish the season @ KC and against the Browns. Likely a losing season.

The Colts have Gardiner Minshew, a dude that could outright start on the Falcons, Raiders, and Patriots - not to mention be starting right now for every team with an injured starter and the Colts have a top 5 offensive line. 

You’re right… the Jets did very well when their starter went down and they had to go with their 3rd year, overall 2nd pick in the draft QB. Everything has been peachy.

Good on you Mr. Savage for pointing this out.

[Ron Rico]

Right now, Bobby Salad is the biggest liability on this team. HE HAS TO GO. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

13 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

You’re right… the Jets did very well when their starter went down and they had to go with their 3rd year, overall 2nd pick in the draft QB. Everything has been peachy.

Good on you Mr. Savage for pointing this out.

Thanks, bro. Knew I could count on your support. 

[rangerous]

11 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Injuries are by far the biggest reason for this. Our quarterback seemingly gets hit every-other-play and our runningbacks get hit in the backfield more than most. This is the catch 22 - do you start making changes until you find something or do you keep it steady? What happens when the real issue is the ingredients you have just guarantee the dish is going to suck regardless. As a cook (or coach here, instead of belabouring the metaphor) you're going to get crushed either way. 

Again, offensive penalties? Third and fourth stringers on the offensive line and the "checked out" since week 2 Becky Becton kinda does that to an offense. 

Defense has played well, other than yesterday and against the Dolphins - those games were ugly, but it's not the penalties, I can't point to a team in this sport that doesn't get bullsh*t defensive holding calls against them routinely. I have to admit, in both the Browns and Fins game, the D did not play well. They're also the only reason we've won six games at all this year with likely a historically horrific offense on the other side.

I’m not ping to say injured players should play but it’s up to the coach and the team doctors to decide if an injury will get worse if a guy plays.  Whatever is going on it seems like there are far too many oline injuries and I’m guessing not all are severe enough to keep a guy out.  And on a losing team there’s less incentive for a guy to go in and play.  This such does happen and I’ll bet saleh keeps guys out for some pretty trivial issues.

[RoadFan]

11 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

I really can't  believe we are going to have to endure another year of this. 

There are plenty of signs to indicate that 2024 will be worse…

[BurnleyJet]

8 hours ago, RoadFan said:

There are plenty of signs to indicate that 2024 will be worse…

Rogers has one leg, he’s 40 won’t have played for two years and has the worst line in football, and one wide receiver.

I think it’s going to be tremendous. Popcorn at the ready, for the peak of Woodys ownership that’s going to be 2024.