With the recent messes, is it still still possible saleh gets fired?

[Adoni Beast]

Robert Saleh didn’t get a Happy Birthday tweet/x ….

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I wouldn't think Vrabel would be "desperate".  He's still young and has built himself a very nice resume so far.

The thing that really surprised me though is that there didn't seem to be much interest in him.  I do wonder if the NFL is starting to have a major shift in their approach to hiring HCs, just like MLB started hiring guys whose main attribute is their ability to coddle the players ("care factor"!).  Now we're seeing these young coordinators (without that much experience) getting hired and HCs with experience getting pushed aside.  I guess Dan Quinn just got rehired so maybe I'm overstating things.  But it does feel like there might be something to this.

I think Vrabel’s issue is that he was allegedly at war with ownership about who should be running the team, and he resented having to answer to Ran Carthon. Supposedly (according to a Titans beat guy) it was nasty down there. If you’re bringing in Vrabel or Belichick, you’re handing the org over to those guys. I’m guessing owners aren’t too keen on the idea of having that one guy pushing all the buttons.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think Vrabel’s issue is that he was allegedly at war with ownership about who should be running the team, and he resented having to answer to Ran Carthon. Supposedly (according to a Titans beat guy) it was nasty down there. If you’re bringing in Vrabel or Belichick, you’re handing the org over to those guys. I’m guessing owners aren’t too keen on the idea of having that one guy pushing all the buttons.

I think most Jet fans want a guy who will push all the buttons (to prevent Woody from doing so).

[Adoni Beast]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think Vrabel’s issue is that he was allegedly at war with ownership about who should be running the team, and he resented having to answer to Ran Carthon. Supposedly (according to a Titans beat guy) it was nasty down there. If you’re bringing in Vrabel or Belichick, you’re handing the org over to those guys. I’m guessing owners aren’t too keen on the idea of having that one guy pushing all the buttons.

I’ll say one thing about Vrabel….when he had his GM and his way the team was a contender. Once Carthon came in and started trading away AJ Brown against Vrabel’s wishes it’s been all downhill since. 

[GreenFish]

Depends on Mrs Saleh’s relationship with Mrs Douglas.

[Bugg]

2 hours ago, JustInFudge said:

I've already said 100 different reasons why there is a less than 0% chance of this happening but the other factor that I havent listed, is if Woody was to fire Saleh, clearly Rodger would have to signed off on it.  Which effectively means, Rodgers would have to admit that he was wrong and that he didnt join a great staff, w/ an arrow pointing up,  who created a great culture and championship caliber D....and we all know if there is one thing Aaron Rodgers will never, ever, ever do, is admit he was wrong.

As others have noted firing Saleh and/or Douglas and hiring a new coach and possibly GM  is roughly a $25 million swing. Add in nobody with options comes here. A prospective head coach is also signing up to let Rodgers run the offense for 1 season and... then what? Johnson has been career poison for head coaches. Roman Numerals insistence of being out front is not a selling point. We don't know the workings of what the hell happened with how Wilson was drafted and how he had a roster spot well after it was clear he isn't an NFL QB. But it has Johnson's fingerprints all over it. 

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I think most Jet fans want a guy who will push all the buttons (to prevent Woody from doing so).

Right, but the thing is that owners like to feel as though they’re running the team because they’re egomaniacal billionaires. Imagine Vrabel telling Woody he’s not allowed in the war room at the draft, or that his kid isn’t allowed to hang out around the practice facility unless he’s willing to fill water bottles and pick up dirty towels? 

[T0mShane]

9 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I’ll say one thing about Vrabel….when he had his GM and his way the team was a contender. Once Carthon came in and started trading away AJ Brown against Vrabel’s wishes it’s been all downhill since. 

Yeah, but Vrabel also got that guy fired! 

[TuscanyTile2]

8 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I’ll say one thing about Vrabel….when he had his GM and his way the team was a contender. Once Carthon came in and started trading away AJ Brown against Vrabel’s wishes it’s been all downhill since. 

I'd love to know what JD would do if he really did have the freedom to hire another HC right now.  It drives me crazy that there's a quality HC like Vrabel out there (who could be a foundational piece for this franchise for years to come), yet we're not pursuing him.

[Unruly Jets Fan]

Nothing will change significantly until Woody is gone.  Period.  The end.  Anything else  equates to moving around deck chairs on the Titanic.  

[Sammybighead]

Guys. Every year, after a disappointing jets season, an article like this comes out depicting the jets as a dysfunctional mess. If woody fired a regime solely based on an article, we'd have a new one every year. If you've been a fan long enough, you've seen this plenty. New hot shot reporters on the jets beat use them to build a name for themselves before moving up to the career jobs they truly wanted. Kinda one reason I have respect for cimini who's been at this for 30 years. Russini and Rosenblatt will move on after a few years and will point to this hard hitting investigative article to get a lucrative deal from their next employer. Good for them.

Woody made the decision to run it back with these guys. I believe that's the right decision even if I'm less than thrilled with saleh at the moment. Make no mistake, woody was very involved in wanting/signing off on Rodgers. He loved every second of it when he was posting videos of the season ticket sales. Saleh and JD were instrumental in landing Rodgers. To not even give Saleh and JD 1 chance to work with Rodgers would be even more laughable offense. 

For better or worse, next season was ALWAYS destined to happen.

[Adoni Beast]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, but Vrabel also got that guy fired! 

[Adoni Beast]

9 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I'd love to know what JD would do if he really did have the freedom to hire another HC right now.  It drives me crazy that there's a quality HC like Vrabel out there (who could be a foundational piece for this franchise for years to come), yet we're not pursuing him.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Sammybighead said:

Guys. Every year, after a disappointing jets season, an article like this comes out depicting the jets as a dysfunctional mess. If woody fired a regime solely based on an article, we'd have a new one every year. If you've been a fan long enough, you've seen this plenty. New hot shot reporters on the jets beat use them to build a name for themselves before moving up to the career jobs they truly wanted. Kinda one reason I have respect for cimini who's been at this for 30 years. Russini and Rosenblatt will move on after a few years and will point to this hard hitting investigative article to get a lucrative deal from their next employer. Good for them.

Woody made the decision to run it back with these guys. I believe that's the right decision even if I'm less than thrilled with saleh at the moment. Make no mistake, woody was very involved in wanting/signing off on Rodgers. He loved every second of it when he was posting videos of the season ticket sales. Saleh and JD were instrumental in landing Rodgers. To not even give Saleh and JD 1 chance to work with Rodgers would be even more laughable offense. 

For better or worse, next season was ALWAYS destined to happen.

 

Quote

Guys. Every year, after a disappointing jets season, an article like this comes out depicting the jets as a dysfunctional mess. If woody fired a regime solely based on an article, we'd have a new one every year.

I do appreciate you trying to bring a level head into this discussion but it's not like this team has had any success for the past 13 years (or whatever our playoff drought is).  In other words, I think there's a good case to think we are a dysfunctional mess.

Quote

Woody made the decision to run it back with these guys. I believe that's the right decision even if I'm less than thrilled with saleh at the moment. Make no mistake, woody was very involved in wanting/signing off on Rodgers. He loved every second of it when he was posting videos of the season ticket sales. Saleh and JD were instrumental in landing Rodgers. To not even give Saleh and JD 1 chance to work with Rodgers would be even more laughable offense. 

Same point again on the level head comment above.  But what has Saleh done to earn himself another year?  Guys like Tomlin and Stefanski overcame.  Saleh was making excuses all the time.  And I think the Athletic article was sort of saying basically the same thing that Joe Benigno talked about during the season.  Benigno said on his podcast that Saleh told him something like "I just want a chance to coach a real QB  once".  I don't blame Benigno even one bit for talking about this stuff but I absolutely do blame Saleh for not keeping his mouth shut.  Plus it shows that Saleh has absolutely no common sense. Even if Saleh might've made the playoffs had we had AR8 all year (which was unlikely even if the week 1 injury didn't happen), I still am not convinced he could out-coach someone in the playoffs.  

I'm at the point where I just want Saleh to be fired.  

[TuscanyTile2]

6 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

If Saleh did something like this, I'd almost certainly hold it against him - lol.  

[varjet]

• As explained in other threads, cutting AR8 this year and starting over would be a $70mm dead cap hit.  Firing the coach and GM would cost $10mm this year in “dead money”, plus another $15mm or so to hire capable replacements.  At least $10mm if you hire the quality you hired the same type of guys. 
• Assuming Woody thinks like me, at this point 2024 is 2024.  I do think Saleh has lost the confidence of the organization, and if he was a Navy Captain he would be relieved of his command.    But at this point I don’t know whether firing and replacing him is going to make a difference with AR8 running the offense and Ulbrich/Saleh running the defense.  Keeping the CS in place will get the best results for the least money.  
  • That is not to say that the results would be good, but at least for 2024, replacing the staff will only cost a lot of money and potentially make things worse.  
• So, after continuing to pay coaches and GMs who basically join the Witness Protection Program after leaving the Jets, Woody may have finally got this figured out.   He is going to optimize his spend.  I don’t exactly blame him.  But he does need to realize that, if he wants to turn this team around and stop his fans for trashing him, it is going to be time for him to spend real money on a HC to fix the culture here.  A HC that is not going to tolerate Woody dropping by every day to discuss strategy.  
• I would be doing two things though.
  • Prohibit JD from trading 2025’s first round pick.  You can see him doing that to go all in 2024.  That pick will be too high.  
  • Start thinking about who the Interim HC is.  I think that is the call to spark the team, like the Raiders did.  Maybe that is Ulbrich.  If you fired Saleh now and tried to make Ulbrich HC, he is going to want a long-term contract.  That does not work for Woody.  Instead, let Saleh start.  If the team falters or is undisciplined, fire Saleh mid-season and make Ulbrich, or Boyer, or Middleton, the Interim HC.  My guess is that their contract provides for a one year. Boost for that.  
• But like with anything else, if you want to understand what is going on, follow the money.  

[SCRUNO]

If the Jets fire Saleh they move Ulbrich or Middleton to HC. Thats the ticket.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, chirorob said:

Who would you possibly hire at this point?

No way Vrabel is coming here right now

Why?  
Look around, how many HCs can turn down opportunities when they open up.  
Add in he’s coming off two seasons that were no better than the two seasons the Jets have put up and caused all of this screaming for change in the first place.  
Look at Jax.  Their owner is an outright meddler, hired Urban Mirer who was a complete disaster, 100Xs worse than what the Jets have been without a QB and yet they could land a recent SB winner as a HC.  

[Larz]

2 hours ago, JetPotato said:

It's not a fixation with firing people. It's a fixation with Woody hiring the wrong ones.

They aren’t the wrong ones.  It’s the best he can attract and hire. That’s not going to change.  That’s my point. 

[FootballLove]

Possibly Joe Douglas feels bad he (and Rex Hogan) inflicted Zach Wilson on the coaching staff and on the team in general.

[varjet]

Something went on in the NFL this year.  I suspect was definitely a push for teams to hire diversity candidates to the extent that they have never done so.   There also appears to be an aversion to hiring old grumpy guys.

• Commanders-I think Quinn is installing a 4-3 defense and adding some culture and toughness.  He will be replaced by an offensive coach when they find a QB.
• Patriots-the BB way was already puttering out.  I don’t see Mayo making a difference here.   That spot could be opening up, but it will be at least 2 years.
• Falcons-Do we think Raheem is long for that job?
• Panthers-this guy with Bryce Young is not lasting, but I think it will be hard to find HCs to work for Tepper…unless they want to live in Charlotte. 
• Seahawks-Comes from good Ravens pedigree, but so did JD.   The track record on DCs to first time HC is….terrible.  
• Titans-I actually think Callahan can pull off some success if Carthon gets him players. 
• Raiders-I also think Pierce is going to do ok.   He can motivate the players and has good DC/OC support.  
• Chargers-this could drive Reid to retire.  I have no doubt that the Chargers are going to take the next step.  

 Hot/Open seats for 2024-Jets, Giants, Eagles, Cowboys, Chiefs (retire), Patriots (if they stink), others.  

I will keep saying the same thing:  For the Jets next phase, Vrabel is as good as they are going to get.,   They need someone to have an effect like Parcells did.  That is not going to be geeky Ben Johnson.  

Next year, the Jets will be competing with 5+ teams for Vrabel. 

[TuscanyTile2]

I love when people say that "Saleh is a nice guy".  That's like saying a girl has a good personality.

[TuscanyTile2]

6 minutes ago, varjet said:

Something went on in the NFL this year.  I suspect was definitely a push for teams to hire diversity candidates to the extent that they have never done so.   There also appears to be an aversion to hiring old grumpy guys.

• Commanders-I think Quinn is installing a 4-3 defense and adding some culture and toughness.  He will be replaced by an offensive coach when they find a QB.
• Patriots-the BB way was already puttering out.  I don’t see Mayo making a difference here.   That spot could be opening up, but it will be at least 2 years.
• Falcons-Do we think Raheem is long for that job?
• Panthers-this guy with Bryce Young is not lasting, but I think it will be hard to find HCs to work for Tepper…unless they want to live in Charlotte. 
• Seahawks-Comes from good Ravens pedigree, but so did JD.   The track record on DCs to first time HC is….terrible.  
• Titans-I actually think Callahan can pull off some success if Carthon gets him players. 
• Raiders-I also think Pierce is going to do ok.   He can motivate the players and has good DC/OC support.  
• Chargers-this could drive Reid to retire.  I have no doubt that the Chargers are going to take the next step.  

 Hot/Open seats for 2024-Jets, Giants, Eagles, Cowboys, Chiefs (retire), Patriots (if they stink), others.  

I will keep saying the same thing:  For the Jets next phase, Vrabel is as good as they are going to get.,   They need someone to have an effect like Parcells did.  That is not going to be geeky Ben Johnson.  

Next year, the Jets will be competing with 5+ teams for Vrabel. 

I like Antonio Pierce too.  He walked into a tough situation (mid-year and he didn't have a bye week or anything like that) and IIRC went 5-4.  His team was physical and tough-minded, and his players respected him.  

[Lupz27]

15 hours ago, Wit said:

I’m kind of done with him.

One can only hope but I doubt it.

[oatmeal]

51 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Why?  
Look around, how many HCs can turn down opportunities when they open up.  
Add in he’s coming off two seasons that were no better than the two seasons the Jets have put up and caused all of this screaming for change in the first place.  
Look at Jax.  Their owner is an outright meddler, hired Urban Mirer who was a complete disaster, 100Xs worse than what the Jets have been without a QB and yet they could land a recent SB winner as a HC.  

This is so disingenuous but I expect this from you

Jags got that HC because of the perception of Lawrence at the time(future franchise QB) we have Rodgers

so yeah stop with the BS

[Lupz27]

15 hours ago, Larz said:

Look at the recent hiring cycle 

no, harbaugh was never coming here

who gets you really excited? Canales? morris ? Macdonald?

the Jets probably would have wound up with Aaron Glenn. 
 

this fixation with firing someone baffles me. They repeat the story every 3 years and it never gets better.  

I get what you’re saying but this guy is a clown (as an HC I’m sure he is a great guy) and it’s not even defendable.

[Lupz27]

8 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

No

Should be Pete Carroll, who has no bad blood with Woodrow

It was Leon Hess who canned him many moons ago

Pete Carroll would be the perfect hire for the next 2 seasons.

Keep Hackett as long as Rodgers is around but he goes the second Rodgers goes.

Saleh runs Carrolls defense (it’s Carrolls D).  So that would be a seamless transition on that side of the ball.

Have Carroll bring in an innovative offensive QB coach who will become the O-Coordinator when Hackett and Rodgers leave.

And yes trade whatever it takes to get Daniels and let him and the QB coach do there own sh*t on the side and start designing the new offense tailored to Daniels for when Rodgers is done or gets hurt.

[Lupz27]

11 hours ago, doitny said:

the fans are stupid. 

Speak for yourself.

Jets would have multiple SB’s if I was in charge back in 2017.

[DJF71]

11 hours ago, doitny said:

good point.

the most damaging thing that came out of that Report was that Woody listens to the fans.

the fans are stupid. 

when did the fire JD thread start like 8 months after he was hired? Saleh before the 1st year was over??

the most successful HC in this century for the Jets Rex Ryan, i wasnt here but i bet if was after he failed to win in 2009. or after his 2nd AFCCG loss in 2010.

and this who Woody is listening too? why would anyone good want to come here.

That shows how smart some of us were smart. Look at the mess JD has created. 

[Jigsaw89]

16 hours ago, Untouchable said:

I mean, they fired Maccagnan 3 weeks after the draft…so who knows with these bozos?

To me the only way you fire him is if you have an agreement in place with a guy like Belichick. As much of a mumbling, backstabbing whore he is (who hates us), the Jets match up with his criteria perfectly. A team with an aging star QB, a couple of playmakers on offense and a Top 5 defense with a 2-3 year window.

BB hates Woody. Never happening. Vrabel on the other hand...

[Rangers9]

Rodgers has complained about the mindset of Jets players not being a winning mentality and a lot of that if true is on the CS. I see if Rodgers healthy a better mix on the field with offense being a lot more competitive. Defense maybe not as good due to potential losses of good vet players due to salary issues. Overall at least two more Ws. 

[TuscanyTile2]

7 minutes ago, Jigsaw89 said:

BB hates Woody. Never happening. Vrabel on the other hand...

Is Vrabel close with BB though?  If so, he probably hates the Jets by association.

[JetPotato]

2 hours ago, Jetpain said:

There will never be a right hire when the organization is dysfunctional.  Need to fix this starting at the top first. 

Good with that. What's the plan to get rid of Woody?

[BloodGreen]

New HC would be saddled working for both Woody Johnson AND Aaron Rodgers so it would have to be someone willing to work with the former and not able to choose his QB for a while due to the latter.
Saleh sucks but I can’t imagine his replacement would be much better if fired now.  We have no choice.  Soldier on with this regime for one more year….and hope.  

The only experienced coach that would accept would be Rex, and he would probably do it at a bargain price. Not saying I would want that, just saying…


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[JetPotato]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

They aren’t the wrong ones.  It’s the best he can attract and hire. That’s not going to change.  That’s my point. 

Your point is wrong.

If Woody would commit himself (both directly to prospective candidates and publicly) that he's taking responsibility for the organizational failures to date, that he realizes now that to be successful, he needs to be in the shadows doing nothing but signing checks for real football people, then grossly overpay for said coach, there I no reason he can't get a proven winner to lead this franchise.

People understand that the 1st guy to come here and make the Jets a legitimate Super Bowl contender is going to be elevated to God status. If you don't think so, look no further than Jets fans who still believe in Zach Wilson as a microcosm of how committed and thirsty this fan base is.