Francesa Response To A Question On Mike Tomlin

[TuscanyTile2]

Starting at 31:19:

Q) Tomlin is 3-9 in the playoffs going back to SB 45.  I understand how valuable and rare consistency is - he's never had a losing season - but at what point will Tomlin be judged by his lack of postseason success vs his regular season accomplishments?

A) Now you saw ownership say that we're having him back but we want more.  We want postseason success now.  Otherwise, we have to think about the future.  So they basically told him that going 9-8 or 10-7 is no longer good enough.  We don't change coaches as you know.  They've had 3 coaches in 60 years, which is unbelievable when you think about it - from Noll to Cower to Tomlin.  I mean that is an amazing thing the likes of which we've not seen.  I mean that is just unbelievable the stability of the franchise.  But they've made that very clear now. 

 

 

Does this mean Tomlin could be sort of on the hotseat if he doesn't win in the postseason?  How great would it be if the Steelers were dumb enough to let him go at the same time Woody finally sh-tcans Saleh!

 

[Adoni Beast]

The Steelers are in the business of competing for championships and I applaud their ownership for creating a standard. I think Mike Tomlin is easily the best thing about the team right now, as the roster isn't very good (look at the GM for answers or a change needed) and the QBs are poor.

I think they decide to re-sign Tomlin on a short deal but they really need an influx of talent and a better QB if they're going to be more than a wild card team.

[rangerous]

the steelers need to find a qb.  launching tomlin won't help that.

[TuscanyTile2]

7 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

The Steelers are in the business of competing for championships and I applaud their ownership for creating a standard. I think Mike Tomlin is easily the best thing about the team right now, as the roster isn't very good (look at the GM for answers or a change needed) and the QBs are poor.

I think they decide to re-sign Tomlin on a short deal but they really need an influx of talent and a better QB if they're going to be more than a wild card team.

5 minutes ago, rangerous said:

the steelers need to find a qb.  launching tomlin won't help that.

Agreed with you both.  Tomlin helped drag that team to the playoffs.  For upper management/ownership to be upset with him not having a deep run with that team is ridiculous.  

[GreenFish]

Post season success comes down to the QB. We’ve seen what great coaches are without a top QB.

Tomlin has been remarkably consistent in the regular season with bad QB play.

How much do we blame/credit coaches for developing QBs? I personally don't give much credit to coaches for high end QB play.  They can hide poor play but they are not taking an avg QB and making them great.

I think it’s scouting and luck since scouts don’t really know how to scout QBs. But if you do, then Tomlin’s negative is not being able to develop a QB.

I’d fly a plane to get Woody to sign him. He’s a top 3 coach of this generation. And this is a big risk since I don't know how fly a plane. 

[Larz]

He might have a couple opportunities better than the jets.  
 

maybe. 

[Adoni Beast]

4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Agreed with you both.  Tomlin helped drag that team to the playoffs.  For upper management/ownership to be upset with him not having a deep run with that team is ridiculous.  

I honestly don't think they are. I think they are just setting the standard across the board and nothing sends a message like putting everyone on notice. I know Rooney recently made a comment about the QB play needing to be better and I think that comment is aimed at GM for picking the QBs, the HC for coaching them, and the QBs themselves for ya know...actually playing lol.

I think Tomlin will stay in Pittsburgh for a few more seasons.

[sourceworx]

Tomlin works for arguably the greatest team owners in sports. Even if they let him go, he isn't going to come work for the donkey in Florham Park. He knows better.

[bgivs21]

21 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Agreed with you both.  Tomlin helped drag that team to the playoffs.  For upper management/ownership to be upset with him not having a deep run with that team is ridiculous.  

Partially agree with that thought process. 

The problem is, you're only looking at it based on the recent lack of roster talent (on the offensive side). But Tomlin massively underachieved when he had a HOF QB and top tier talent on the offensive side.

When combined, it's more than fair to say to Tomlin that slightly above mediocre will no longer cut it. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

He might have a couple opportunities better than the jets.  
 

maybe. 

How could he possibly have an opportunity better than the Jets? I mean, think before you post, man.

[GQMartin]

When the 2024 season inevitably fails for the Jets, if Tomlin is free, you go after him at all costs.

 

[Beerfish]

So coaches are only good if they have awesome QBs of which Tomlin had one for 15 years.

The 'stability' angle is overblown and people are happy with one guy for having some reg season success but no playoff success and can;t wait to fire other guys in the same boat, see Mike McCarthy.

Was a guy like Cower really that special?  16 years and a lot of playoff failure with good teams until he finally won a super bowl and is now thought of as being one of the greats.

 

[derp]

Tomlin is a CEO type head coach, which is awesome. Part of his job is handling the coordinators - and he gave Matt Canada a really long leash. How much of that is the Steelers trying to not turn over staff versus Tomlin thinking Canada was doing a good job I do not know, but he's got to show he can find guys who can find answers for them on the offensive side of the ball.

Which, particularly in this day and age, is easier said than done. The league is so offense hungry that those guys get head coach opportunities pretty quickly.

[RedBeardedSavage]

22 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

The Steelers are in the business of competing for championships and I applaud their ownership for creating a standard. I think Mike Tomlin is easily the best thing about the team right now, as the roster isn't very good (look at the GM for answers or a change needed) and the QBs are poor.

I think they decide to re-sign Tomlin on a short deal but they really need an influx of talent and a better QB if they're going to be more than a wild card team.

Agree on Tomlin and the reality of the Steelers situation (poor QB, roster is meh), and to the larger point, too many coaches are fired for things out of their control.

There just aren't enough good quarterbacks to go around, and once a team acquires a quarterback of "playoff caliber", let's say Dak or Cousins, then there's that unsettling realization that a whole tier exists above that, and if you don't have a quarterback in the absolute top tier, you're not a true title contender.

[GreenFish]

35 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

So coaches are only good if they have awesome QBs of which Tomlin had one for 15 years.

The 'stability' angle is overblown and people are happy with one guy for having some reg season success but no playoff success and can;t wait to fire other guys in the same boat, see Mike McCarthy.

Was a guy like Cower really that special?  16 years and a lot of playoff failure with good teams until he finally won a super bowl and is now thought of as being one of the greats.

 

I’ll take Mike McCarthy as coach of the Jets as well.

The gap between Brady/Manning and other AFC QBs of the era was meaningful.

Similar to today’s era. Mahomes is just on another level. AFC QBs like Allen, Lamar, and Burrow are just not going to win many super bowls because of him. Lamar is a separate discussion. But someone like Burrow comes up big in games. He’ll be lucky to win one super bowl. 

[Jetsfan80]

A HCs primary concern is establishing a high floor.  Don’t lose games with poor decisions.  Establish standards that are consistent across the board.  When you provide input on personnel decisions, understand you need to have a nice blend of “character guys”, system fits, and the occasional sociopath.  Go too heavy on any of those 3 groups and you run into trouble.

Tomlin is this type of HC.  A high floor guy.  Belichick is similar in that regard.  

Ceiling is where it gets tricky.  Your ceiling is always going to be limited if your QB is limited.  Offensive genius types like Reid, Shanahan and McVay can raise that ceiling a lot more than others, but unless you have at least a B or B- QB you’re still going to end up spinning your wheels.

Tomlin has never really been the type who can expand the ceiling much but he’s still at minimum a tier 2 HC, and you don’t fire guys like that until they’re very old OR if you can get a rock solid tier 1 guy to replace him.   

[usanyj]

Coaching itself is overrated so to speak...Belichick is considered the greatest ever, but he has been poor, record wise, with out Brady.

You can look at multiple sports...Phil Jackson in the NBA, all those rings, well, he had Jordan and Pippen and Kobe and Shaq....and when he didn't, like with the knicks, he was considered a failure.

Joe Torre, for all his accolades, managed the Steinbrenner blank check yankees...He has an abysmal record managing other teams.

It's the players, its the owner...Are some guys just train wrecks regardless? Sure, but id be willing to venture that you put someone who is consider a mediocre to poor head coach on the patriot dynasty teams, the patriots likely still win. Belichick is a guy holding a clipboard for brady, torre is a guy writing a lineup card full of all stars, and phil jackson just told everyone to pass the ball to some of the greatest players of all time.

[GreenFish]

31 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

A HCs primary concern is establishing a high floor.  Don’t lose games with poor decisions.  Establish standards that are consistent across the board.  When you provide input on personnel decisions, understand you need to have a nice blend of “character guys”, system fits, and the occasional sociopath.  Go too heavy on any of those 3 groups and you run into trouble.

Tomlin is this type of HC.  A high floor guy.  Belichick is similar in that regard.  

Ceiling is where it gets tricky.  Your ceiling is always going to be limited if your QB is limited.  Offensive genius types like Reid, Shanahan and McVay can raise that ceiling a lot more than others, but unless you have at least a B or B- QB you’re still going to end up spinning your wheels.

Tomlin has never really been the type who can expand the ceiling much but he’s still at minimum a tier 2 HC, and you don’t fire guys like that until they’re very old OR if you can get a rock solid tier 1 guy to replace him.   

Great post.

I’m definitely of the opinion that great coaches show themselves by having a high floor. Super Bowls in my opinion are more of a QB accomplishment.

This is why I view guys like Tomlin and Harbaugh as two of the best coaches of this generation.

However, you bring up a great point about raising the ceiling. Tomlin does not do that. A guy like Reid does.

Definitely going to rethink my opinion on coach rankings.

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Great post.

I’m definitely of the opinion that great coaches show themselves by having a high floor. Super Bowls in my opinion are more of a QB accomplishment.

This is why I view guys like Tomlin and Harbaugh as two of the best coaches of this generation.

However, you bring up a great point about raising the ceiling. Tomlin does not do that for either side of the ball. A guy like Reid does that.

Definitely going to rethink my opinion on coach rankings.

Harbaugh is weird because he’s kind of a high floor guy AND a bit of a ceiling raiser even though he isn’t an offensive genius or whatever.  He just makes really good hires on both sides of the ball and of course has the benefit of a terrific front office.  So he’s always a top 3-5 HC for sure but probably can’t ever really be ranked # 1 over the offense-first guys.  

[bonkertons]

If the freaking Islanders could somehow manage to hire a respected HC in Barry Trotz, surely the Jets can as well.  

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

These conjectures are easy to throw out there but have little basis in reality.

Even if Tomlin is eventually fired, why on Earth would he willingly go from the most stable franchise in the league to one of the least stable and least successful?

[bonkertons]

5 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

These conjectures are easy to throw out there but have little basis in reality.

Even if Tomlin is eventually fired, why on Earth would he willingly go from the most stable franchise in the league to one of the least stable and least successful?

Probably because most of the "stable" franchises aren't looking for new head coaches.  Teams are typically only "stable" once they find the right coach(and QB).  Also when you say "least successful", I'm guessing you're talking about the playoff drought?  Because there are certainly worse teams than us right now, unless you think a coach would choose another team over us because they happened to make the playoffs 4 or 5 years ago?  Seems like an interesting strategy, valuing a random playoff run from years ago over roster talent. 

 

Honestly, who knows if he'd want to come here, but I'm not sure where this idea comes from that we're in some rare boat, and all these other teams with HC vacancies are dream jobs.  99% of the "Jets are a joke" narrative comes from this coaching and GM regime, which obviously wouldn't be Tomlin's problem if he decided to come here.  Personally though I'd rather make a run at Ben Johnson.

 

I'm curious though to see the list of prestigious teams, perennial contenders, that might be looking for HCs next year.  Surely it's a long one if we'll have no shot to add a decent coach.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

7 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

Probably because most of the "stable" franchises aren't looking for new head coaches.  Teams are typically only "stable" once they find the right coach(and QB).  Also when you say "least successful", I'm guessing you're talking about the playoff drought?  Because there are certainly worse teams than us right now, unless you think a coach would choose another team over us because they happened to make the playoffs 4 or 5 years ago?  Seems like an interesting strategy, valuing a random playoff run from years ago over roster talent.

Honestly, who knows if he'd want to come here, but I'm not sure where this idea comes from that we're in some rare boat, and all these other teams with HC vacancies are dream jobs.  99% of the "Jets are a joke" narrative comes from this coaching and GM regime, which obviously wouldn't be Tomlin's problem if he decided to come here.  Personally though I'd rather make a run at Ben Johnson.

I'm curious though to see the list of prestigious teams, perennial contenders, that might be looking for HCs next year.  Surely it's a long one if we'll have no shot to add a decent coach.

Believe what you will, but there's a better chance of Joey Gallo batting .400 than of Mike Tomlin being caught dead on the Jets' sideline in green and white.

Parcells was 25 years ago under different ownership.

No coach with any options whatsoever willingly chooses Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb, the Johnson bros.

Saleh is a fraud who bombed the Lions interview and saw the Jets and dimwit CJ as maybe his one and only option to cash in for his wife and 100 kids.

At age 39 and with an albatross contract, Rodgers had exactly one suitor:  the Jets, who bid against themselves.

[bicketybam]

Believe what you will, but there's a better chance of Joey Gallo batting .400 than of Mike Tomlin being caught dead on the Jets' sideline in green and white.
Parcells was 25 years ago under different ownership.
No coach with any options whatsoever willingly chooses Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb, the Johnson bros.
Saleh is a fraud who bombed the Lions interview and saw the Jets and dimwit CJ as maybe his one and only option to cash in for his wife and 100 kids.
At age 39 and with an albatross contract, Rodgers had exactly one suitor:  the Jets, who bid against themselves.

Maybe in 7 years or so when Woody is sh*tting in a diaper, some HOF coach will take pity on him and come turn the team around like Parcells did for Old Man Hess. Fi gets crossed.