lancemehl hates the 3-4 [MERGED 6X]

[lancemehl]

plays for Tony Dungy" one of the announcer idiots said that during the indy Ten game,I think Dierdorf.

But that's what I miss THE HITTING. The Ted Cotrell, The Pete Carroll, the Bellicheck,even the Henderson Jets

ALL HIT!!! Am I the only one who notices this. Because I could be nuts! lol

[lancemehl]

Rhodes

Coleman

Revis Dyson

Harris Harris Bowens

Barton Vilma Hobson

Ellis Coleman Pouha Bowens

Coleman Ellis DRob Thomas

Sorry if it didn't come out perfect but you get the point

We are a left guard away from having a top five offense and a scheme away from having a top 5 defense.

I'm willing to give one more year, a long as he brings in a 4-3,cover2 guy like Monte Kiffin as DC.OR Randy Shannon from U of Miami.

[Bugg]

Once again, you look at a collection of defensive players and think a scheme will easily solve everything. But none of those players spare Rhodes and hopefully Revis is anyone who blows up plays, or requires teams to gameplan around, or keeps OCs up at night. And our front 7 has a whole bunch of top rounders making big money who do not, so far anyway, make plays. We haven't had a turnover nor a sack in 2 games. I'm willing to accept we faced probably the 2 toughest opponents on the Jets schedule.But you have to admit the tlaent may not be there, damn the scheme.

Mangini does run variations of the 3-4 that are similar to the 4-3. It's not so much scheme as much as overvalued and overpaid talent, so far. And I'm sorry-Vilma is simply too small to be a playmaker.

[joewilly]

Once again, you look at a collection of defensive players and think a scheme will easily solve everything. But none of those players spare Rhodes and hopefully Revis is anyone who blows up plays, or requires teams to gameplan around, or keeps OCs up at night. And our front 7 has a whole bunch of top rounders making big money who do not, so far anyway, make plays. We haven't had a turnover nor a sack in 2 games. I'm willing to accept we faced probably the 2 toughest opponents on the Jets schedule.But you have to admit the tlaent may not be there, damn the scheme.

Mangini does run variations of the 3-4 that are similar to the 4-3. It's not so much scheme as much as overvalued and overpaid talent, so far. And I'm sorry-Vilma is simply too small to be a playmaker.

I agree bugg, especially on the vilma comment. let this harris kid play

[JetsMan57]

You dont pressure the QB and there is not a coverage imaginable that is going to help you.

[GandWFan]

And I'm sorry-Vilma is simply too small to be a playmaker.

Careful, Bugg... I started a thread like this earlier, and lots of folks got really upset!

[Gainzo]

Careful, Bugg... I started a thread like this earlier, and lots of folks got really upset!

I can dig up that thread if you like.

[snow_monkey]

Rhodes

Coleman

Revis Dyson

Harris Harris Bowens

Barton Vilma Hobson

Ellis Coleman Pouha Bowens

Coleman Ellis DRob Thomas

Sorry if it didn't come out perfect but you get the point

We are a left guard away from having a top five offense and a scheme away from having a top 5 defense.

I'm willing to give one more year, a long as he brings in a 4-3,cover2 guy like Monte Kiffin as DC.OR Randy Shannon from U of Miami.

This isn't Madden. I suggest you read Buggs reply. At least twice.

[#27TheDominator]

This isn't Madden. I suggest you read Buggs reply. At least twice.

Looking at the personnel, they'd even suck in Madden. Dyson is a bad fit for the Cover 2, maybe a little better for Tampa2, but he's not giving you much help in run support. That's why Herm ditched Glenn. Thomas sucked as a DE, Ellis blew as a DT. Bowens can't play 4-3 LB, he'd play DE, but that's okay because Coleman is a 3-4 DE and might be better off flip-flopped with Ellis in that scheme. Looks like it'd be similar to our '05 D, only without our best player, Abraham. Not exactly a cure all IMO. A lot of trouble to go through just to make Jonathan Vilma comfortable.

[Damaged89]

Looking at the personnel, they'd even suck in Madden. Dyson is a bad fit for the Cover 2, maybe a little better for Tampa2, but he's not giving you much help in run support. That's why Herm ditched Glenn. Thomas sucked as a DE, Ellis blew as a DT. Bowens can't play 4-3 LB, he'd play DE, but that's okay because Coleman is a 3-4 DE and might be better off flip-flopped with Ellis in that scheme. Looks like it'd be similar to our '05 D, only without our best player, Abraham. Not exactly a cure all IMO. A lot of trouble to go through just to make Jonathan Vilma comfortable.

Thank you.

[Boozer76]

Rhodes

Coleman

Revis Dyson

Harris Harris Bowens

Barton Vilma Hobson

Ellis Coleman Pouha Bowens

Coleman Ellis DRob Thomas

Sorry if it didn't come out perfect but you get the point

We are a left guard away from having a top five offense and a scheme away from having a top 5 defense.

I'm willing to give one more year, a long as he brings in a 4-3,cover2 guy like Monte Kiffin as DC.OR Randy Shannon from U of Miami.

I quit reading when I saw you say we are a guard away from being a top 5 offense. That's one of the most assinine statememnts I've seen in years.

[Irish Jet]

Our main problem in the 3-4 is not Jonathan Vilma, If he had casey hampton or Jamal Williams in front of him, he would be as good as ever.

The main problem is D-Rob, he doesnt demand double teams and gets pushed around far far too easy.

We need a new NT, one who can play to this system. That will open up holes for the LB's to work with.

Changing the scheme wont help now.

[lancemehl]

Once again, you look at a collection of defensive players and think a scheme will easily solve everything. But none of those players spare Rhodes and hopefully Revis is anyone who blows up plays, or requires teams to gameplan around, or keeps OCs up at night. And our front 7 has a whole bunch of top rounders making big money who do not, so far anyway, make plays. We haven't had a turnover nor a sack in 2 games. I'm willing to accept we faced probably the 2 toughest opponents on the Jets schedule.But you have to admit the tlaent may not be there, damn the scheme.

Mangini does run variations of the 3-4 that are similar to the 4-3. It's not so much scheme as much as overvalued and overpaid talent, so far. And I'm sorry-Vilma is simply too small to be a playmaker.

Did you watch any UM football while Vilma played there, at least the BCS championship???

UM plays cover 2,Ray Lewis, Dan Morgan....guys like that.

Vilma was a monster at UM and a monster in his first year here, then poof! magically he sux.explain that please, same with Ellis on a smalle scale when did he disappear? I think it was about last season.

Don't tell a person who watched Vilma in the BCS Bowl vs. Nebraska and his rookie year that he's too small to be a playmaker.BS! In the 3-4 only!!!!

He's a phenomenal playmaker, put him in a cover 2 and observe.

[Ghost]

Careful, Bugg... I started a thread like this earlier, and lots of folks got really upset!

He is, on our team.

[lancemehl]

Changing the scheme wont help now.

How can you say that???? We have a Great cover 2 basic NFL defense.

So, according to your logic Irish Jet, we just HAVE to suck, because a 350 Ted washington isn't falling out of the sky.

D-Rob isn't mutating.

Only One thing can be changed. Not the players. The scheme. Every 12 year old on a pop warner team can play a basic cover 2. It's like the 2-3 zone in basketball.

Stop pretending we're the Patriots,ERIC! Stop pretending we're the '91 Giants!!!! Or the '05 Steelers. We'r the 07 Jets, with a great offense. The best WR tandem I could remember and i go back to Walker/Lam.I tear up when I think who our #3 could've been(idiots)

The best 1st and 2nd string since O'Brien/Ryan(lol) and should be the most complete running attack with a N-S guy, a "scat-back" whatever TF that is, and a Bull Dozer FB, I've only seen the Dozer part so far.

O-Line suffered The Kendall disaster, but that can be fixed eventually(idiots).

But the "D" could be this friggin simple:

" Huddle up guys, Look, We've decided we're going base 4-3 the rest of the way!

(:60 of straight yelling, high-fiving,jumping around)

Ok,OK settle down, I know everyone knows the basics, but meet in the film room in 20, we're gonna go over some things, then as soon as we start scrimmaging, line up."

Defense on three 1,2,3, "Defense!"

That simple, Irish Jet, that simple.

I played a cover 2, for McLean Heights in Yonkers, I was 11.

IT IS THT F--kING EASY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also, Irish,in the interest of disclosure, when did you say you became a jet fan?, how about an American football fan?

I'm seriously curious, I have no quarrel with you,Good Sir Knight.

[#27TheDominator]

How can you say that???? We have a Great cover 2 basic NFL defense.

So, according to your logic Irish Jet, we just HAVE to suck, because a 350 Ted washington isn't falling out of the sky.

D-Rob isn't mutating.

<snip>

But the "D" could be this friggin simple:

" Huddle up guys, Look, We've decided we're going base 4-3 the rest of the way!

(:60 of straight yelling, high-fiving,jumping around)

Ok,OK settle down, I know everyone knows the basics, but meet in the film room in 20, we're gonna go over some things, then as soon as we start scrimmaging, line up."

Defense on three 1,2,3, "Defense!"

That simple, Irish Jet, that simple.

I played a cover 2, for McLean Heights in Yonkers, I was 11.

IT IS THT F--kING EASY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have already addressed why we don't have a "great cover 2" in an early post. Dyson sucks at run support, Thomas sucks at DE, Ellis sucks at DT, Coleman is not suited to 4-3 end, Bowens can't play 4-3 LB, etc.

Did you ever think that a defense you could play at 11 might not be the best choice for the NFL?

Very few people will take you seriously with your comments about our O. The Jets have had some excellent wideouts come through. Coles and Cotchery are very good, but compared to Toon and Walker they are nothing. You want to mention a complete running attack? We just lost a HOF back and now have a guy who has 2 1,000 yard seasons. We're lucky if he's as good as Johnny Hector.

[Irish Jet]

How can you say that???? We have a Great cover 2 basic NFL defense.

So, according to your logic Irish Jet, we just HAVE to suck, because a 350 Ted washington isn't falling out of the sky.

D-Rob isn't mutating.

Only One thing can be changed. Not the players. The scheme. Every 12 year old on a pop warner team can play a basic cover 2. It's like the 2-3 zone in basketball.

Stop pretending we're the Patriots,ERIC! Stop pretending we're the '91 Giants!!!! Or the '05 Steelers. We'r the 07 Jets, with a great offense. The best WR tandem I could remember and i go back to Walker/Lam.I tear up when I think who our #3 could've been(idiots)

The best 1st and 2nd string since O'Brien/Ryan(lol) and should be the most complete running attack with a N-S guy, a "scat-back" whatever TF that is, and a Bull Dozer FB, I've only seen the Dozer part so far.

O-Line suffered The Kendall disaster, but that can be fixed eventually(idiots).

But the "D" could be this friggin simple:

" Huddle up guys, Look, We've decided we're going base 4-3 the rest of the way!

(:60 of straight yelling, high-fiving,jumping around)

Ok,OK settle down, I know everyone knows the basics, but meet in the film room in 20, we're gonna go over some things, then as soon as we start scrimmaging, line up."

Defense on three 1,2,3, "Defense!"

That simple, Irish Jet, that simple.

I played a cover 2, for McLean Heights in Yonkers, I was 11.

IT IS THT F--kING EASY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also, Irish,in the interest of disclosure, when did you say you became a jet fan?, how about an American football fan?

I'm seriously curious, I have no quarrel with you,Good Sir Knight.

Im sorry but if it was "that simple" Im pretty sure mangini would do it. The guys not an idiot ya know.

[lancemehl]

I quit reading when I saw you say we are a guard away from being a top 5 offense. That's one of the most assinine statememnts I've seen in years.

Not quite this is:

"And I'm sorry-Vilma is simply too small to be a playmaker" at 6'1" 230

Don't make me list the endless stream of MLB playmakers smaller than him,in our own division.

Vilma is a Beast in College, comes to the jets and is a beast his rookie year beating out Sam Cowart who he replaced due to injury. Now he's too small because he doesn't fit the only defense Mangini knows?

Whatever.

Vilma sucks.

Chad sucks

Welker and Moss suck

DBrickashaw isn't a Matador at LT right now and he has plenty of veteren leadership to teach him things, like Bender.

Where's Harris??? Revis is starting, where's Harris???? Is Barton that good? Really?

Dare I challenge the almighty Mangini, look, the guy's learning how to be an NFL coach on our watch.That's all.

And he's got that Parcells stubborn streak in him.

You know we never got to REALLY, I mean, REALLY see what we hersheled to get in D-Rob. We Hersheled for a 4-3 DT and in his "peak" year, the Genius threw him in a world he knew nothing about and wasn't ready for, isn't equipped for physically.

Had he stayed where he belonged, who knows, but ,too late, We Hersheled, it happens.

[lancemehl]

I have already addressed why we don't have a "great cover 2" in an early post. Dyson sucks at run support, Thomas sucks at DE, Ellis sucks at DT, Coleman is not suited to 4-3 end, Bowens can't play 4-3 LB, etc.

Did you ever think that a defense you could play at 11 might not be the best choice for the NFL?

Very few people will take you seriously with your comments about our O. The Jets have had some excellent wideouts come through. Coles and Cotchery are very good, but compared to Toon and Walker they are nothing. You want to mention a complete running attack? We just lost a HOF back and now have a guy who has 2 1,000 yard seasons. We're lucky if he's as good as Johnny Hector.

I don't remember Toon and Walker Playing side by side,if they did it was very limited. I meant a tandem for years. Notice I chose my words carefully, giving all respect to Curtis and Freeman by saying "complete"(big RB small "scatback",Bulldozer FB,supposedly)not "better" two thousand yard seasons is already better than Johnny Hector also. Just Sayin.

BTW this statement:

Coles and Cotchery are very good, but compared to Toon and Walker they are nothing.

I don't fully agree with, let's wait until the book is closed,please. Toon came at Walkers end,so it's not really a "tandem", like Clayton/Duper . Plus I will put final numbers up head to head and wager,but I won't go there, I have too much respect for Toon and Wes, with one eye.

[Irish Jet]

For the last time if a certain scheme would help our team to the point where we would be a top 5 defence.

Mangini would switch, Im sorry but I'll take his word over yours.

[lancemehl]

For the last time if a certain scheme would help our team to the point where we would be a top 5 defence.

Mangini would switch, Im sorry but I'll take his word over yours.

Of course, like the Schlegal draft. He knows best. Period.

[Irish Jet]

Of course, like the Schlegal draft. He knows best. Period.

LOL, your ridiculous. Really you are.

[Boozer76]

Of course, like the Schlegal draft. He knows best. Period.

No, it's obvious that you do.

[lancemehl]

LOL, your ridiculous. Really you are.

did you ever answer my question?

actually, forget it. I'm Irish, first off, and I always respect a European becoming an NFL fan, you said Chad actually started you liking the NFL, hence your greenblood, now.

So, you've been an NFL fan since what 2002? I understand, you're learning.

I don't want to fight with jet fans anymore on fin-Jet day, especially.

I agree with you about Chad and many other opinions of yours. For someone who has been watching football for only 5 years, you are very knowledgable(much more than me at 9,that's when I hit my 5 year anniversery,1979)

Irish Jet, Truce! In fact...........

[Bugg]

Our main problem in the 3-4 is not Jonathan Vilma, If he had casey hampton or Jamal Williams in front of him, he would be as good as ever.

The main problem is D-Rob, he doesnt demand double teams and gets pushed around far far too easy.

We need a new NT, one who can play to this system. That will open up holes for the LB's to work with.

Changing the scheme wont help now.

How'd you like Vilma on the last TD, pushed around like a girl, as he was all day, often by a fat slow guard? What crap. Where he lines up doesn't matter; he's too small and weak. Get rid of him, the sooner the better.

[lancemehl]

with his local High School! We NEED a DC next year! Top Priority!

[BP]

Hey, even mumbles was overwhelmed in 2000 without Romeo Crennel. Mangini was our DC after the first half of the Cleveland game last year.

Sutton is a goner at the end of the season.

[124]

Calling Romeo Crennel, calling Romeo Crennel.

[Irish Jet]

Dick leBeau from the Steelers would be beyond awesome.

[timbok]

who should we get to replace sutton?

I don't think Donnie Henderson is available

[lancemehl]

What about that crazy dude with the grey Mullet from Oakland. Where'd he end up?

[timbok]

still there - Bob Ryan

[Kentucky Jet]

still there - Bob Ryan

It would be tough getting ROB RYAN but well worth the price of admission! But why not give BRYAN COX a shot? COX would bring some toughness, know how and aggressiveness to the Jets sidelines. I prefer to develop our own DC. He is my choice.

[GM]

with his local High School! We NEED a DC next year! Top Priority!

Pfft..With his credentials he is a shoo in in KC.

[drago]

with his local High School! We NEED a DC next year! Top Priority!

wow did you have me going.

we need a flippin d-coordinator, if buffalo posts 150 yards on us, it has to be very close to making a change somewhere in the coaching ranks.