win4ever Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Are we the only team that seems to lack this? Everytime I see a good team make a catch that can possibly be challenged or a play that can be overturned, they rush to the line before many replays are available and try to run a play. The Pats/Broncos/Packers/49ers and others do this consistently. However, we have a play where we make a catch (ofcourse this means the refs actually have to believe that we made a catch in the first place) where it could possibly be real close or enticing enough for the other coach to throw out a challeng, and what do we do? We huddle up, take our sweet time, share a few jokes before calling the play and end up with having the play reversed. I think in one case against SD, not only did we slow it down, we actually had to call TO because we took too much time, and the announcers mentioned that since a play hasn't happened afterwards, they can still challenge this. Why do we take chances like that? If it's a close play, rush to the line, and call a run play. At worst, this forces the other coach to react without seeing a replay, so he either doesn't challenge, or is blindly throwing out the flag, which could cost him a timeout. But we make sure they have 15 different angles before deciding with our slow play calling in such situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayKwaz Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 That has pissed me off for seasons. I dont ever remember a Jet team doing that. I have seen Brady run qb sneaks just to get the next play run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Situational Awareness How many times does this team have to burn important second half Timeouts early in the third quarter ? Do you really want to burn T.O. on third and longs in the 3rd Quarter ? I believe we've done that. How many times have we burned T.O. because we can't get the right personnel on the field ? This all stems from a lack of leadership with the HC I can see this happening in the first few games but with Ryan at the helm it happens consistently all year long and through out his entire tenure here as the Jets HC. This stems from a total lack of discipline and very poor preparation and at this stage there really is no excuse. I have seen this happen even with well coached teams the problem is under Ryan it happens consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I was pointing this kind of nonsense out in Rex's first year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I was pointing this kind of nonsense out in Rex's first year. I was as well but you can chalk that up to rookie HC. What's the excuse 5 years later ? Incompetence ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I was as well but you can chalk that up to rookie HC. What's the excuse 5 years later ? Incompetence ? The unrealistic expectations of a thankless fan base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 The unrealistic expectations of a thankless fan base. This is great. I love it. Sounds like something you would tell yourself when your husband leaves you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 i'd like to see a quick snap to catch a defender offsides. couple times this year a guy jumps and geno just sticks with the predetermined snap count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I was as well but you can chalk that up to rookie HC. What's the excuse 5 years later ? Incompetence ? There is no excuse. I'm just planning on riding this "I told you so" thing as far as it'll take me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Blah, blah, blah. I see this happen with teams throughout the league, but here it is only us. Only Rex! Young QB has trouble getting people set at the line. While everyone complains about the TOs burned in the Pats game, they converted a 3rd and 12 on a drive they scored a TD and stopped the Pats on a 3rd down. That was basically 11 points in that game. Nobody likes that they used them, but if you think Geno doesn't NEED to do that more than Manning or Brady you are nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 That would require having a QB that isn't overwhelmed by just getting the coming play thought through and reading a D to change that midstream. We don't have that. 6 was marginally better but still incapable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 While everyone complains about the TOs burned in the Pats game, they converted a 3rd and 12 on a drive they scored a TD and stopped the Pats on a 3rd down. That was basically 11 points in that game. The problem isn't coaching, the problem is the amount of times out that the league supplies the Jets. If the team had the option to think more deliberately about every play, this team would be awesome! More evidence of the league trying to keep the Jets down, by not issuing 10 times out per half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kay_gee Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 uh yes, and it's a rex issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Are we the only team that seems to lack this? Everytime I see a good team make a catch that can possibly be challenged or a play that can be overturned, they rush to the line before many replays are available and try to run a play. The Pats/Broncos/Packers/49ers and others do this consistently. However, we have a play where we make a catch (ofcourse this means the refs actually have to believe that we made a catch in the first place) where it could possibly be real close or enticing enough for the other coach to throw out a challeng, and what do we do? We huddle up, take our sweet time, share a few jokes before calling the play and end up with having the play reversed. I think in one case against SD, not only did we slow it down, we actually had to call TO because we took too much time, and the announcers mentioned that since a play hasn't happened afterwards, they can still challenge this. Why do we take chances like that? If it's a close play, rush to the line, and call a run play. At worst, this forces the other coach to react without seeing a replay, so he either doesn't challenge, or is blindly throwing out the flag, which could cost him a timeout. But we make sure they have 15 different angles before deciding with our slow play calling in such situations. If its like a blatant drop rewarded as a catch, then you don't have much time anyways cuz opponents will drop the flag with in 10 seconds. But sometimes you can see an incompletion pass using your judgement looking at replays. However, most of the time there might not be enough evidence to overturn it. In that situation, I want them to take the entire 40 seconds for the next play so opponents get extra time and end up throwing the flag, using a TO and a challenge and still don't get the play reversed. I guess if they hurry up in that situation, the opposing HCs might panic and call a TO to say the least to watch it carefully. either way, Im 'mostly' ok with it. Mostly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I honestly believe that the greatest loss that they Jets team had over the past several years was the loss of Mike Westhoff. Not only have our special teams suffered greatly (Special teams single handedly won games those first couple of years), but Westhoff was the smartest man on the Jets sideline. He understood game situations and was a great sounding board for Rex. His loss has not been replaced and he was the guy that made game days go better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 This usually happens to teams with young and inexperienced QB's. The veterans are better in getting a snap off. Pats/Broncos/Packers all have veteran QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 When I read the thread title, I thought this was a Harvin thread. How a situationally aware GM knows to sell and not buy at 1-6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 When I read the thread title, I thought this was a Harvin thread. How a situationally aware GM knows to sell and not buy at 1-6 Pretty sure that a GM's thought pattern is, "When I think I can make my team better, I make it better". Not dependent on record. The Mets, in 1983 traded for Keith Hernandez. That team stunk. But they pinned their hopes that he could be a nucleus to make future teams better. It was not about winning in 1983. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 This usually happens to teams with young and inexperienced QB's. The veterans are better in getting a snap off. Pats/Broncos/Packers all have veteran QB's. I think it's a combination of factors. Rex absolutely deserves the blame for situations like this, as its on him to be aware of everything going on and react to it properly. With that said, the benefit of having those kind of QBs you're referring to is that, even in the face of incompetence from their head coach, it won't make a damn bit of difference. You can be sure that if you've got a guy like Manning as QB, he won't worry what the coaches are thinking, he'll already have the offense back up at the line and snapping the ball before a single word comes in to him. The problem is as a head coach, you don't get to rely on your QB being Manning-esque, and it's no excuse when he's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I think it's a combination of factors. Rex absolutely deserves the blame for situations like this, as its on him to be aware of everything going on and react to it properly. With that said, the benefit of having those kind of QBs you're referring to is that, even in the face of incompetence from their head coach, it won't make a damn bit of difference. You can be sure that if you've got a guy like Manning as QB, he won't worry what the coaches are thinking, he'll already have the offense back up at the line and snapping the ball before a single word comes in to him. The problem is as a head coach, you don't get to rely on your QB being Manning-esque, and it's no excuse when he's not. Most young QB's in their first 2 seasons usually struggle with these adjustments. I have seen Andrew Luck struggle on this count in his rookie year. So its something that comes with experience. HC takes the blame for not demanding this be coached in training camp. And i not sure if the JETS do or don't. So i cannot necessarily blame the HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Pretty sure that a GM's thought pattern is, "When I think I can make my team better, I make it better". Not dependent on record. The Mets, in 1983 traded for Keith Hernandez. That team stunk. But they pinned their hopes that he could be a nucleus to make future teams better. It was not about winning in 1983. That's a nice theory, but it could have been applied to a dozen or more free agents that he neglected to sign for considerably less money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 That's a nice theory, but it could have been applied to a dozen or more free agents that he neglected to sign for considerably less money. I thought that we are only talking about "now"-In season. At this particular tim, there are not any great options to improve your team for the future. I can only guess that Idzik feesl this is one of those opportunities. I don't think it is any slam dunk for success. But, the cost seemed to be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Seems much better as a 6th that could become a 4th than a 4th that could become a 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Seems much better as a 6th that could become a 4th than a 4th that could become a 2nd. Please update me. I thought that it was a 6th that could become a 4th or 5th. Are there other parameters out there? If this would up being a 2nd round pick, I would be much more uneasy on ROI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I thought that we are only talking about "now"-In season. At this particular tim, there are not any great options to improve your team for the future. I can only guess that Idzik feesl this is one of those opportunities. I don't think it is any slam dunk for success. But, the cost seemed to be right. so you think Harvin is going to be on the roster in 2015 at 10M / yr? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Most young QB's in their first 2 seasons usually struggle with these adjustments. I have seen Andrew Luck struggle on this count in his rookie year. So its something that comes with experience. HC takes the blame for not demanding this be coached in training camp. And i not sure if the JETS do or don't. So i cannot necessarily blame the HC. This is hardly something that's only happened to the Jets once. I don't disagree that these things can be easier with a veteran QB who doesn't require the same degree of hand-holding, but after 6 years you'd think Rex would have a plan for this by now. After it happened with Geno once it shouldn't take much more than telling him that when this crap happens again, they'll be yelling into his earpiece "HURRY UP! SNAP THE DAMN BALL!" and he needs to do just that. It's not exactly the most complicated of matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 so you think Harvin is going to be on the roster in 2015 at 10M / yr? I think that the Jets, If they like the test drive, will look to renegotiate that. They will have leverage, as he is considered "damaged goods" in the open market. Will Rex being let goi be a deterrent for him? Don't know. What will the jets do at the QB position? All factors. It is a bit of a poker game, for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 In the second half, the coaching staff needs to instill the mindset that a 5 yard penalty is better than wasting a timeout. There's no reason to have any less than 3 timeouts heading into the last 5 minutes of a game. Rex shuffling personnel in and out is just bad coaching. Have your base set and roll with it if a team goes hurry up...which is what most good teams do against our defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayNoToDMC Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 My favorite is the too many men in the huddle penalties after time outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
win4ever Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 That has pissed me off for seasons. I dont ever remember a Jet team doing that. I have seen Brady run qb sneaks just to get the next play run. A lot of teams do this, they rush up to the line of scrimmage before the coaching staff has a chance to look at the plays. They don't even have to run a play, just rushing up and pretending like the play is about to start is reason enough for the other coach to throw the red flag. We don't even make that effort, we break the huddle with 10 seconds left on the play clock, and then give them every opportunity possible to see a replay. Another example is when someone jumps offside, the OL automatically moves to make sure the other team is penalized. We still hold our stance as much as possible and throw away the free 5 yards. Albeit, I think Peyton was the one that did this the most, but now other teams are starting to catch on. Situational Awareness How many times does this team have to burn important second half Timeouts early in the third quarter ? Do you really want to burn T.O. on third and longs in the 3rd Quarter ? I believe we've done that. How many times have we burned T.O. because we can't get the right personnel on the field ? This all stems from a lack of leadership with the HC I can see this happening in the first few games but with Ryan at the helm it happens consistently all year long and through out his entire tenure here as the Jets HC. This stems from a total lack of discipline and very poor preparation and at this stage there really is no excuse. I have seen this happen even with well coached teams the problem is under Ryan it happens consistently. I'm not even 100% sure this is Rex's fault, because he seems somewhat hands off with the offense. Although I guess taking time to instill this during practice or the offseason can be important. I think our coaches are good at game planning, but they aren't all that good at taking advantage of little things that can really help us out because they don't prepare these guys for it, or the players are just too dumb to realize it. i'd like to see a quick snap to catch a defender offsides. couple times this year a guy jumps and geno just sticks with the predetermined snap count. I'm surprised when we snap the ball before single digits on the play clock. Defensive players can take a quick nap on the field after each play with the pace at which we call plays. But atleast that's a philosophical change to speed up the game. I'm just saying, we don't seem to take advantage of situations where we unexpectedly get a upper hand. Blah, blah, blah. I see this happen with teams throughout the league, but here it is only us. Only Rex! Young QB has trouble getting people set at the line. While everyone complains about the TOs burned in the Pats game, they converted a 3rd and 12 on a drive they scored a TD and stopped the Pats on a 3rd down. That was basically 11 points in that game. Nobody likes that they used them, but if you think Geno doesn't NEED to do that more than Manning or Brady you are nuts. I'm not talking about the timeouts as much as taking advantage of situations. We always let the other team get 5 looks at a replay to make sure they can make an informed decision. We rarely take advantage when a player jumps offsides by moving ourselves and getting the free 5 yards. These are little things that a lot of the good teams seem to do, because they know each advantage can only help them. If its like a blatant drop rewarded as a catch, then you don't have much time anyways cuz opponents will drop the flag with in 10 seconds. But sometimes you can see an incompletion pass using your judgement looking at replays. However, most of the time there might not be enough evidence to overturn it. In that situation, I want them to take the entire 40 seconds for the next play so opponents get extra time and end up throwing the flag, using a TO and a challenge and still don't get the play reversed. I guess if they hurry up in that situation, the opposing HCs might panic and call a TO to say the least to watch it carefully. either way, Im 'mostly' ok with it. Mostly. I think it's the process that matters though. If you speed up the process, whoever is watching the replay for the HC only has a chance to watch about one replay of it, and he's limited to the randomness of the angle, so the first angle doesn't really have to show conclusive evidence. So now, the HC has to make a decision, should I throw the flag now or should I save it because I don't know for sure. And let's assume it's a 50/50 prosposition, where half the times he would throw it, and half the times he wouldn't. That would mean that if it's a blatant drop, we save ourselves half the times. By waiting as much as possible, we give the guy watching the replay scores of different angles, so he can pretty much say with certainty that they should or shouldn't throw the red flag, so the margin of error for the other coach is much less. And them losing TOs has drastic effects on how they approach the rest of the half, as we're accustomed to, so it alters their strategy later in the game. Even if it's probable that it's a good catch, why not rush to the line to pretend to make a quick snap, and then just audible. We have the chance the coach reacts one way and throws a flag, only for it to be upheld and he loses a TO. I think it's a combination of factors. Rex absolutely deserves the blame for situations like this, as its on him to be aware of everything going on and react to it properly. With that said, the benefit of having those kind of QBs you're referring to is that, even in the face of incompetence from their head coach, it won't make a damn bit of difference. You can be sure that if you've got a guy like Manning as QB, he won't worry what the coaches are thinking, he'll already have the offense back up at the line and snapping the ball before a single word comes in to him. The problem is as a head coach, you don't get to rely on your QB being Manning-esque, and it's no excuse when he's not. I don't think you have to be a Manning type QB to execute these kinds of things though, because it's pretty simple. If it involved complicated reads, check downs, audibles, etc, I would understand. But this is pretty cut and dry to make some of these little things work in our favor, by just speeding up our plays in certain instances. It puts the other team on alert as to why we are speeding it up, and forces them to think that maybe it was a drop, when it wasn't. 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Smashmouth Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Situational Awareness I have seen this happen even with well coached teams the problem is under Ryan it happens consistently. Blah, blah, blah. I see this happen with teams throughout the league, but here it is only us. Only Rex! Young QB has trouble getting people set at the line. While everyone complains about the TOs burned in the Pats game, they converted a 3rd and 12 on a drive they scored a TD and stopped the Pats on a 3rd down. That was basically 11 points in that game. Nobody likes that they used them, but if you think Geno doesn't NEED to do that more than Manning or Brady you are nuts. no ones saying its only us it happens to every team but with us it just happen's more often . Its not just geno It happens on the defensive side of the ball probably just as much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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