Jump to content

"Leadership" and the Top 1o Reasons Fitz should be benched


JohnnyLV

Recommended Posts

What pisseds me off is continuing to trot a QB out there who has proven over TEN years that he:

1. Cannot beat a winning team (once since 2011)

2. Cannot lead a comeback (9 total in 10 years)

3. Has never won more than 6 games and right now looks like that could continue

4. Cannot stretch the field and move the safety out of the box

5. Despite his "harvard" education does not make good decisions on the field

6. Locks on to receivers

7. Threw 3 interceptions in the last 2 weeks in situations at the end of gameswhere he needed to step up

8. Has shown no ability to adjust plays in key situations, usually going for the quickest option he can find

9. Consistently through his career has gotten worse and worse as the season goes on

10. Cannot run a 2 minute drill, to the extreme that Bowles and Gailey do not even TRY them

But the supporters will say "teammates love him!", "Decker has a Fitzmagic shirt" and the best one:

"He is a leader!", not even sure what that one means anyway other than being an impressive soundbite:

"Ryan Fitzpatrick, a HARVARD graduate, is a natural leader that has the unflagging support of all his teammates. In fact, they are so behind him that they do not even care that other teams (just like in the 9 years past) have completely figured out how to stop him. No, "Fitzgerald is our QB" Bowles says, pointing out that none of the slide is on Fitz, because "other players make mistakes too" while "he puts it all on the line" and his "teammates are 100& behind him because he is a "leader". So expect to the Jets to continue to slide and miss the playoffs because there really is no one better to lead them there in truth than a weak armed dump off artist that has never won more than 6 games in his career. No, there is just no better choice for mediocrity than Ryan Fitzpatrick, Harvard man, leader"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 135
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Oh good. A fresh, hot take on the same old same old argument. Listen, most of what you said has some semblance of truth. However a lot of Fitz' flaws are something Geno isn't very good at either. Geno locks onto receivers, throws critical picks, has zero pocket awareness, is incredibly inaccurate, etc etc. 

You honestly think teams won't stack the box because they think Geno is going to beat them over the top? He'd have to not take a boneheaded sack first. 

Neither guy is the answer. Let's just focus on the Dolphins on Sunday and they players who are actually playing. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh good. A fresh, hot take on the same old same old argument. Listen, most of what you said has some semblance of truth. However a lot of Fitz' flaws are something Geno isn't very good at either. Geno locks onto receivers, throws critical picks, has zero pocket awareness, is incredibly inaccurate, etc etc. 

You honestly think teams won't stack the box because they think Geno is going to beat them over the top? He'd have to not take a boneheaded sack first. 

Neither guy is the answer. Let's just focus on the Dolphins on Sunday and they players who are actually playing. 

I never menrtioned Geno. Cut Geno for all I care, but Fitz should not be starting for this team any longer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Geno Smith got knocked the **** out by a guy, who then got cut and then came back to the Meadowlands to play us, and Geno's current teammates went and chatted the guy up and hugged him. Pretty sure it's safe to say Fitz is probably the #1 guy on the roster in the leadership department.

And that leadership means completely nothing if the guy sucks and Fitz does. It is like just because Fitz is a good guy we should ignore his actual skill level on the football field. And if teams only started the popular players with "leadership" then many many top players would never see the field. Football players prefer veterans on the field for many reasons including their own longevity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And that leadership means completely nothing if the guy sucks and Fitz does. It is like just because Fitz is a good guy we should ignore his actual skill level on the football field.

I know. It's crazy that Fitz' shim sham personality is hindering the progress of Geno's greatness. Fitz is like that evil uncle from Home Alone, probably says look what you did you little jerk to Geno when he throws a pick in practice too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And that leadership means completely nothing if the guy sucks and Fitz does. It is like just because Fitz is a good guy we should ignore his actual skill level on the football field. And if teams only started the popular players with "leadership" then many many top players would never see the field. Football players prefer veterans on the field for many reasons including their own longevity.

No it doesn't mean completely nothing. Bowles is a first year coach, and a comparatively soft-spoken one at that. Bowles is not the one to lift up team morale in the face of having no (if not negative) leadership on the field. Also removing him for a player the team knows can't handle the job means the coach is telling them that their long-term health is worth risking to get reps for someone they kind of hate (Geno) or someone who isn't even good enough to leapfrog said hated guy yet.

Here's what we've got right now, and for the rest of the season (barring injury changing things):

1. Fitzpatrick - stinks but at least acts like he knows what he's doing up to the point the ball is snapped, and so far the other players still like him

2. Geno - stinks, comes across like he has no answers before and after the ball is snapped, and the other players do not like him

3. Petty - the HC says he's nowhere near ready, which sucks. It really, really sucks. I'm quite certain Bowles would love to promote him above Geno as soon as he can justify it.

Given this choice, leadership prevails until option #3 becomes viable enough to get live reps after we've been eliminated. And this is coming from someone who is just waiting away the days until Fitz is no longer the team's starter. And yes I'm aware it could go on for a whole season more - actually as of now it's clearly pointing in that direction - which is kind of depressing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No it doesn't mean completely nothing. Bowles is a first year coach, and a comparatively soft-spoken one at that. Bowles is not the one to lift up team morale in the face of having no (if not negative) leadership on the field. Also removing him for a player the team knows can't handle the job means the coach is telling them that their long-term health is worth risking to get reps for someone they kind of hate (Geno) or someone who isn't even good enough to leapfrog said hated guy yet.

Here's what we've got right now, and for the rest of the season (barring injury changing things):

1. Fitzpatrick - stinks but at least acts like he knows what he's doing up to the point the ball is snapped, and so far the other players still like him

2. Geno - stinks, comes across like he has no answers before and after the ball is snapped, and the other players do not like him

3. Petty - the HC says he's nowhere near ready, which sucks. It really, really sucks. I'm quite certain Bowles would love to promote him above Geno as soon as he can justify it.

Given this choice, leadership prevails until option #3 becomes viable enough to get live reps after we've been eliminated. And this is coming from someone who is just waiting away the days until Fitz is no longer the team's starter. And yes I'm aware it could go on for a whole season more - actually as of now it's clearly pointing in that direction - which is kind of depressing.

I just do not accept that analysis. 

Like I said I am OK with even cutting Geno at this point, however he has not had a chance to prove what he can do for a new OC with better weapons, and the limited time Geno play was no worse than what Fitz is putting out there.

If the Jets just cannot as a team counsel the thought of Geno getting another shot for whatever reason, then play Petty and just be careful how you bring him along.

But this thread is not about Geno or Petty it is about Fitz and how no matter how you slice it, we are losing in good part because of him and you just cannot accept that as a team.

And another YEAR. Bowles should be fired for even considering it if he does.,

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just do not accept that analysis. 

Like I said I am OK with even cutting Geno at this point, however he has not had a chance to prove what he can do for a new OC with better weapons, and the limited time Geno play was no worse than what Fitz is putting out there.

If the Jets just cannot as a team counsel the thought of Geno getting another shot for whatever reason, then play Petty and just be careful how you bring him along.

But this thread is not about Geno or Petty it is about Fitz and how no matter how you slice it, we are losing in good part because of him and you just cannot accept that as a team.

And another YEAR. Bowles should be fired for even considering it if he does.,

 

 

 

Then don't accept it. To bench Fitz you have to replace him with another QB not the idea of another QB. Geno is not an option and, so far (if Bowles is to be believed) neither is Petty. 

Think about it. If Geno was such an obvious choice wouldn't it have been easy for Bowles to start him over Fitz after he injured his hand? It's nothing for a HC or GM to go to the team doctor and get him to say a player can or can't play yet. So they went with a healthy Geno over an injured Fitz who's limited even when healthy. So they aren't going with Fitz over Geno for no good reason.

Then this brings us to Petty. Petty is behind Geno on the depth chart. If Bowles wouldn't play Geno over a struggling and injured Fitz, don't you think he'd like another option? Yet Petty can't even take Geno's place as Fitz's backup, let alone jumping both Geno and Fitz.

And that's it. There is no one else. I can complain about Fitz all day and all night but it doesn't mean I don't understand that Bowles can't bench a team leader the same way fans bench fantasy football players. 

Last, if Fitz is the QB next year it's ultimately on Maccagnan not Bowles. Just as it was all Maccagnan (or if anything, Maccagnan and Gailey) that brought Fitz here in the first place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In Bowles defense, if I was a rookie HC I would probably want to lose with fitz as the QB... If you make a change now and put geno or petty and the team loses then the blame goes to the coach for making a change that failed, and I don't blame him for not trusting his job with geno or petty. If you lose the season with fitz, you can just say that we didn't have a better option and we'll just start over next season with a new group of QB's to work with

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In Bowles defense, if I was a rookie HC I would probably want to lose with fitz as the QB... If you make a change now and put geno or petty and the team loses then the blame goes to the coach for making a change that failed, and I don't blame him for not trusting his job with geno or petty. If you lose the season with fitz, you can just say that we didn't have a better option and we'll just start over next season with a new group of QB's to work with

You're just now realizing this is what's been going on? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Am i the only one thats taken crazy pills and realize fitz is far from the worst problem on this team now. We knew what we got wen we started this season at qb. And I actually think fitz has done a hell of a job given "his abilities" guy plays with heart. Last week running in for that td proved that. Like i said hes no tom brady but we knew this coming into the season. Id be more concerned about the amount of money we invested into a "top 5" defense that has been MIA since the start of the pats game.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Am i the only one thats taken crazy pills and realize fitz is far from the worst problem on this team now. We knew what we got wen we started this season at qb. And I actually think fitz has done a hell of a job given "his abilities" guy plays with heart. Last week running in for that td proved that. Like i said hes no tom brady but we knew this coming into the season. Id be more concerned about the amount of money we invested into a "top 5" defense that has been MIA since the start of the pats game.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The "plays with heart" rationalization. I love that one, because when Geno actually "plays with heart" he gets criticized for not being "smart" and getting out of bounds, etc...but when Fitz does it, he is "playing with heart"

Defense and offense did not play in a vacuum. They are completely co-dependent. Fitz limitations at QB forces more pressure and total number of series at the defense and faced with all those extra defensive stands they break down in games. Sad thing is our defense is playing well enough to give Fitz extra opportunities early which he is squandering.

People's perception of QBs have been too altered by stats and fantasy football. Instead of looking at whether or not a QB can make plays, especially when it matters, or get quick scores or come back in games, it seems we have all decided to measure QBs on arbitrary efficiency numbers- does he have over 60% completions, does he limit turnovers, etc...Fitz puts up decent efficiency numbers, completing lots of short safe passes, but he is not consistently able to move the offense or to make plays when he matters, He just cannot and  has actually never been able to.

Fitz is the main source of our issues as a team. His weaknesses were hid by exceptional turnover conversions early in the season, but he has and is really holding this team back and hurting them.

It is also wrong to think that Bowles is making decisions based on purely trying to win games. It is a business, and a political one at that and coaches make decisions on what is safe and least likely to be perceived a bad move if it fails. Fitz as an established veteran is the safe move and he can shift the blame to other players as he continues to fail. Starting a different QB, while still not having a losing record is a VERY bold decision that most head coaches are not willing to make even if it is the right one, because if it blows up all the blame is on the HC not other elements. 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The "plays with heart" rationalization. I love that one, because when Geno actually "plays with heart" he gets criticized for not being "smart" and getting out of bounds, etc...but when Fitz does it, he is "playing with heart"

Defense and offense did not play in a vacuum. They are completely co-dependent. Fitz limitations at QB forces more pressure and total number of series at the defense and faced with all those extra defensive stands they break down in games. Sad thing is our defense is playing well enough to give Fitz extra opportunities early which he is squandering.

People's perception of QBs have been too altered by stats and fantasy football. Instead of looking at whether or not a QB can make plays, especially when it matters, or get quick scores or come back in games, it seems we have all decided to measure QBs on arbitrary efficiency numbers- does he have over 60% completions, does he limit turnovers, etc...Fitz puts up decent efficiency numbers, completing lots of short safe passes, but he is not consistently able to move the offense or to make plays when he matters, He just cannot and  has actually never been able to.

Fitz is the main source of our issues as a team. His weaknesses were hid by exceptional turnover conversions early in the season, but he has and is really holding this team back and hurting them.

It is also wrong to think that Bowles is making decisions based on purely trying to win games. It is a business, and a political one at that and coaches make decisions on what is safe and least likely to be perceived a bad move if it fails. Fitz as an established veteran is the safe move and he can shift the blame to other players as he continues to fail. Starting a different QB, while still not having a losing record is a VERY bold decision that most head coaches are not willing to make even if it is the right one, because if it blows up all the blame is on the HC not other elements. 

 

 

 

it is almost scary how wrong one person can be.   Good news for the rest of us is that people much smarter then you make the decision that Geno will NEVER play QB for the  NYJ again. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OP and his siamese twin are exhausting with this crap.

Let them rant they have no idea WTF they are talking about ... I have a few on ignore so I can't see some of the posts you are probably referring too LOL

Right now Fitz is the least of our trouble's . Everyone understands Fitz is here until we draft and develop a young QB that could be anywhere from 1-3 years depending on various outcomes. That being said if this offense just executed we could actually be in very good shape this year Inconsistency aside

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let them rant they have no idea WTF they are talking about ... I have a few on ignore so I can't see some of the posts you are probably referring too LOL

Right now Fitz is the least of our trouble's . Everyone understands Fitz is here until we draft and develop a young QB that could be anywhere from 1-3 years depending on various outcomes. That being said if this offense just executed we could actually be in very good shape this year Inconsistency aside

but they are exhausting ... I am in agreement with that

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just do not accept that analysis. 

Like I said I am OK with even cutting Geno at this point, however he has not had a chance to prove what he can do for a new OC with better weapons, and the limited time Geno play was no worse than what Fitz is putting out there.

If the Jets just cannot as a team counsel the thought of Geno getting another shot for whatever reason, then play Petty and just be careful how you bring him along.

But this thread is not about Geno or Petty it is about Fitz and how no matter how you slice it, we are losing in good part because of him and you just cannot accept that as a team.

And another YEAR. Bowles should be fired for even considering it if he does.,

 

 

 

There really hasn't been a single game this season where I said to myself we lost because of Fitz (who has given us the best QB play we have seen in years btw). Our losing is a team effort, we have a lot of talent  but they aren't playing as well as they should probably some motivation problems but Fitz is not the problem...we have already have more win than we did last season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There really hasn't been a single game this season where I said to myself we lost because of Fitz (who has given us the best QB play we have seen in years btw). Our losing is a team effort, we have a lot of talent  but they aren't playing as well as they should probably some motivation problems but Fitz is not the problem...we have already have more win than we did last season.

How can you compare 2014 to this year??That was a totally different team in many area's was it not?? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How can you compare 2014 to this year??That was a totally different team in many area's was it not?? 

For the most part it is the same fan base...moral of the story is be happy with what we have and quit whining and knit picking every time we have a bad play or lose a game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So johnnysd you would rather see Geno Smith taking unnecessary sacks and pick sixes rather than a guy who at least keeps the team in games. The Jets didn't bring Fitzpatrick here to be Dan Marino, they brought him here to manage games and let the run game and the defense win it. Chan Gailey has gone pass crazy the last several games and admitted so (almost) when he told Rich Cimini they would go to more short pass routes now and play into Fitzy strength. Throwing deep is not his strength, nor do we have the WR's to make the plays. Marshall doesn't fight for the ball and Smith simply can't catch. He looks like a clone of Stephen Hill in my book.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So johnnysd you would rather see Geno Smith taking unnecessary sacks and pick sixes rather than a guy who at least keeps the team in games. The Jets didn't bring Fitzpatrick here to be Dan Marino, they brought him here to manage games and let the run game and the defense win it. Chan Gailey has gone pass crazy the last several games and admitted so (almost) when he told Rich Cimini they would go to more short pass routes now and play into Fitzy strength. Throwing deep is not his strength, nor do we have the WR's to make the plays. Marshall doesn't fight for the ball and Smith simply can't catch. He looks like a clone of Stephen Hill in my book.

Short passing will do nothing now, Other teams are stacking the box, the only way to get the safeties and LB's to drop off is to hit the mid range intermediate passes - which Fitz is pretty bad at.This is why I still feel Geno gives us a better chance to win , his arm strength will get the safeties and LB's off the LOS. Whether or not he could be accurate with those passes is anyone's guess but at least it opens some lanes for the run game. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Benching Fitz only makes sense if they want to give Geno an extended look. That is the only scenario. Petty isn't ready so rushing him and grading him now makes no sense.

If they wanted to give smith an extended look The Bills and Texans would have been the place to do it without upsetting team chemistry.  He was seriously injured and needed surgery.  It would have been so easy to sit Fitz, "for his future health" and give smith his shot.

 

Bowles jokingly said "we though about sitting Fitz, but it wasn't a serious thought."   He went with an injured Fitz, who in the Houston game seemed to be concussed, over a healthy smith.   Doesn't bode well for seeing smith again unless Fitz is unable to play.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes I agree if there was ever a chance to giv e Smith it would have been Houston with Fitz coming off surgery to me it has to show they have no confidence in him to get the job done.

If Petty was the back up. I'd understand.  smith was a 2 year starter, The Jets were favored in a very important Texans game.  It should have been no problem for him to step in and do what he's paid for.

Think Bowles saw all he wanted of smith in the Raiders game.  smith didn't have a horrible game, but when the chips were down at the end of the game he reverted right back to what has made him a bad QB 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So johnnysd you would rather see Geno Smith taking unnecessary sacks and pick sixes rather than a guy who at least keeps the team in games. The Jets didn't bring Fitzpatrick here to be Dan Marino, they brought him here to manage games and let the run game and the defense win it. Chan Gailey has gone pass crazy the last several games and admitted so (almost) when he told Rich Cimini they would go to more short pass routes now and play into Fitzy strength. Throwing deep is not his strength, nor do we have the WR's to make the plays. Marshall doesn't fight for the ball and Smith simply can't catch. He looks like a clone of Stephen Hill in my book.

Truth is, all of that is conjecture. He took a couple questionable sacks against the Raiders but for the most part played at least as well as Fitz has this year and put up very similar numbers. No one knows here that he will throw lots of pick sixes, but why does Fitz get a complete pass for all the picks he has thrown including 2 in the last game when it really mattered. The blind hatred of Geno and the even more blind acceptance of Fitz is bewildering. For those saying I am wrong, that's your opinion but I have to question if you really can be at all objective in watching Fitz play. No one has refuted the negative things about Fitz it is just deflected by "Geno sucks" or "Fitz gives us the best chance to win" both of which are likely not true at all. It is amazing that people actually expect better results with Fitz than he has shown in the other 9 years of his career and when he seriously starts to falter, and look exactly like you would expect him to, everyone is OK with that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Petty was the back up. I'd understand.  smith was a 2 year starter, The Jets were favored in a very important Texans game.  It should have been no problem for him to step in and do what he's paid for.

Think Bowles saw all he wanted of smith in the Raiders game.  smith didn't have a horrible game, but when the chips were down at the end of the game he reverted right back to what has made him a bad QB 

And when the chips were down in the last two games, Fitz threw TERRIBLE picks. But you are OK with that, but crucify Geno for trying to make plays after coming in with almost no preparation and first team reps in weeks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...