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2016 WS Champions/Cubs Thread


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Congrats to Troll and NJ.  Real fans even back during the tough times.  Hoping the Cubs win the WS for you guys. 

Ironically enough, in 1997, I was a 13 year old Indians fan. It wasn't my first baseball heartbreak. That would be whenever Albert Belle signed with the White Sox. That son of a bitch. It's tough to r

Thanks Rob - it was a phenomenal season. I think it gave  - truth be told - my favorite sport a shot in the arm too which just adds to the special nature of what happened here. I was at the first

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I was going to say someone from the Cubs organization should reach out to Bartman to throw out the first pitch.  Then I thought maybe they should wait until they actually win the title to try and get him back in the stadium.  

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1 minute ago, BallinPB said:

I was going to say someone from the Cubs organization should reach out to Bartman to throw out the first pitch.  Then I thought maybe they should wait until they actually win the title to try and get him back in the stadium.  

They tried last year for the NLCS and the local reports are this year they have finally given up. I think everyone finally came to terms with the fact that the guy is sincere in wanting to be left alone about the whole thing.

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18 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

They tried last year for the NLCS and the local reports are this year they have finally given up. I think everyone finally came to terms with the fact that the guy is sincere in wanting to be left alone about the whole thing.

I definitely think he is sincere in wanting to be left alone.  He could've made a ton of money doing interviews.  I think it would be awesome if one day down the road they can convince him to show up to a game especially if they end up winning.

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1 minute ago, BallinPB said:

I definitely think he is sincere in wanting to be left alone.  He could've made a ton of money doing interviews.  I think it would be awesome if one day down the road they can convince him to show up to a game especially if they end up winning.

I think people should leave him alone, he didn't do anything wrong and is treated like he murdered 5 people.  it would be a joke for people to "forgive" him if the Cubs win just as it was a joke when Sox fans "forgave" Buckner after they finally won even though Buckner wasn't why they lost in '86.

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52 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I think people should leave him alone, he didn't do anything wrong and is treated like he murdered 5 people.  it would be a joke for people to "forgive" him if the Cubs win just as it was a joke when Sox fans "forgave" Buckner after they finally won even though Buckner wasn't why they lost in '86.

He did what any one of us would have done if you saw a foul ball coming towards you. I think the saddest part about the entire ordeal was that the guy was a little league coach (apparently a beloved one) and he had to give it up because reporters were hunting him down at the team's games and he didn't want to be a distraction to them.

From what I read last year during the NLCS, the reason he didn't want to accept the invite was because he doesn't want to contribute more to the ordeal being blown out of proportion.

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1 minute ago, RutgersJetFan said:

He did what any one of us would have done if you saw a foul ball coming towards you. I think the saddest part about the entire ordeal was that the guy was a little league coach (apparently a beloved one) and he had to give it up because reporters were hunting him down at the team's games and he didn't want to be a distraction to them.

From what I read last year during the NLCS, the reason he didn't want to accept the invite was because he doesn't want to contribute more to the ordeal being blown out of proportion.

the documentary on that night is really sad. the SS could have ended the inning, but booted a ground ball.  people at home were calling friends in the stands telling them who did it.  scary mob mentality sets in.

 

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Just now, Larz said:

the documentary on that night is really sad. the SS could have ended the inning, but booted a ground ball.  people at home were calling friends in the stands telling them who did it.  scary mob mentality sets in.

 

The broadcast kept the cameras on him for so long too, enabling everyone in the stadium to see who did it. And they divulged his name. Really just a sad day for humans that night.

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15 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Heyward is a mighty expensive bench player for this World Series.

 

He'll also be a highly expensive late inning defensive replacement.  But at least that's something of value.  Defense is huge in the World Series.  Just ask us Mets fans.  Ugh....

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I get that they need to find and talk about a weakness and this team has so few, but the Lester throwing to first base thing isn't really a thing. If it was it would have come up sometime in his previous 10 years. It was more funny than anything how he had Lindor dead to rights and still did not throw.

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6 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Truly get how you feel about annoying commentary. Makes everyone's experience less enjoyable.

I'd be alright if he was merely annoying. Possibly I'd be annoyed because I'm butthurt he's right so often and he's offering well thought out #hottakes.His situation is that he's clueless and forced on us, far more offensive. Imagine being forced to deal with drivel for 6 months of a baseball season! Makes me wonder if he's got a little gwudge against the viewers at home or something that it gets so bad.

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On 10/24/2016 at 6:39 PM, SenorGato said:

Catastrophe is pretty much the only way the Cubs are not built to last. Braves finished in less than first place once in 15 years without the kind of money or market the Cubs will have and have. The 2015 Mets were built around an older lineup and a rotation with one non-surgeried young arm (albeit arguably the best RH in the game for the foreseeable future, barring catastrophe). That roster and team just were not in the same shape as the Cubs, performance and injury histories both bear that out. On paper the 2015 Cubs were a better team than the 2015 Mets, their follow up seasons also bore that out.

Just going with the numbers the 2016 Cubs actually underperformed expected W-L based on their periphs. This team, barring catastrophe, has as good shot at getting better next year with Bryant in the meat of his prime as well as a lineup of guys in their early-mid 20s. I've said it all year - 2016-2018 is well set up for some special sh*t to happen before their media rights are sold for top dollar.

 

But the inherent nature of baseball is catastrophe.  You simply never know.

It does look promising for 2016 to 2018, but so did the World Series.  Now the Cubs are down 0-1.  They may still win it, of course, but they might not because the best team doesn't always win in baseball.

In fact, the best team rarely wins the WS.  They had an interesting ESPN article over the weekend, pointing out the fact that in the WC era (last 10 years) only 2 teams with the best MLB record won the WS (98, 09 Yanks).  Heck, the best team doesn't always make it to the WS.  That's baseball.

 

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2 minutes ago, SMC said:

Ron Darling would've been great for this series.  He's a top-notch color man.  I don't hate Smoltz as much as you guys do.  He's definitely better than Ripkin.

Maybe I'm a little spoiled when it comes to commentating because the Mets have had 3 of the very best (and another great one on the radio) for quite some time, but I think Darling has really fallen off the past couple years. Keith is light years better, I just don't think he gives enough of a sh*t to want to deal with postseason stuff.

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28 minutes ago, SMC said:

Ron Darling would've been great for this series.  He's a top-notch color man.  I don't hate Smoltz as much as you guys do.  He's definitely better than Ripkin.

I think Smoltz does a very good job. As with Darling, he gives a very good pitcher/batter perspective. He understands the cat/mouse game and is able to portray that well.

As with many national event finals, fans that have a team stake in those events feel that the national crews are "against' their team. We have some particularly "homerish" fans here.

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2 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Maybe I'm a little spoiled when it comes to commentating because the Mets have had 3 of the very best (and another great one on the radio) for quite some time, but I think Darling has really fallen off the past couple years. Keith is light years better, I just don't think he gives enough of a sh*t to want to deal with postseason stuff.

 

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Yeah, who John Smoltz may or may not be rooting for is a complete non-factor. I have no idea how that can even be detemrined, likely neither does the dude making the guess. I do agree that there are homers here, but luckily they are easy enough to run circles around. I'm just used to Len Kasper killing it. Going from he and Deshaies to Joe Buck and John Smoltz is a massive dropoff. Kasper understands how to speak to casuals and non-casuals alike, whereas guys like Smoltz cater more to the casual crowd.

3 hours ago, SMC said:

But the inherent nature of baseball is catastrophe.  You simply never know.

It does look promising for 2016 to 2018, but so did the World Series.  Now the Cubs are down 0-1.  They may still win it, of course, but they might not because the best team doesn't always win in baseball.

In fact, the best team rarely wins the WS.  They had an interesting ESPN article over the weekend, pointing out the fact that in the WC era (last 10 years) only 2 teams with the best MLB record won the WS (98, 09 Yanks).  Heck, the best team doesn't always make it to the WS.  That's baseball.

If the whole thing here is that we don't know anything with 100% certainty then that's long been acknowledged many times over. That is what life is, decisions and calls have to be made all the time and many people make well educated and rational calls all the time. With the information that does exist and is not hypothetical the Cubs are already way ahead of the pack, have multiple young players likely to get better before they get worse (again, barring catastrophe), and are set up to make lots and lots and lots of money. This is a franchise that coasted to being the best all around team in the league even after losing a monster bat, probably their third best hitter at worst, in Schwarber a week into the season. As much as some would like to imagine, one WS game loss is probably not going to throw that off the rails. Folks got their hopes up just last week when the Dodgers went up 2-1. It will take a much larger and more significant catastrophe than one loss in a series they need 4 losses to really lose.

It should also be noted that the best teams do not always win the most games. The Rangers this year are a perfect example. They won the second most games in the league scoring 8 more runs than they gave up all season. They were hardly the best team in the AL if you take away hard to repeat factors like luck and sequencing. The Cubs' dominance is more than just the surface W-L. On paper they were either the best or in the top 3 or 5 in basically every major category with one of the handful youngest groups of everyday players in baseball. If there's a way to build a monster for the long haul, that would be the route to go. 

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Undoubtedly, SenorGato, HOFer Theo Epstein built the Cubs the right way and for the long haul.  I'm just surprised at your supreme confidence of the Cubs' long-term dominance when baseball, more than any other sport, is subject to such variance.

Lester and Arrieta can easily blow out their arms.  Bryant, Rizzo and Baez can get hurt.  Other NL teams will get better.  Plus, momentum is only as good as the next game's pitcher.  That's baseball.

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3 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

I think Smoltz does a very good job. As with Darling, he gives a very good pitcher/batter perspective. He understands the cat/mouse game and is able to portray that well.

As with many national event finals, fans that have a team stake in those events feel that the national crews are "against' their team. We have some particularly "homerish" fans here.

Agree totally.  This is a HOF pitcher giving excellent insight to what's happening at the plate from the pitcher and hitter perspective. Anyone who thinks he's clueless is missing it or it's too far over their head to comprehend.

Some analysts that are ex-players have a tough time expressing their insight. Smoltz is not lacking there. I hated Smoltz into his broadcasting career,  but he's good, and Iike that. He's much more personable now also. Happy with Fox having him do it

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1 hour ago, SMC said:

Undoubtedly, SenorGato, HOFer Theo Epstein built the Cubs the right way and for the long haul.  I'm just surprised at your supreme confidence of the Cubs' long-term dominance when baseball, more than any other sport, is subject to such variance.

Lester and Arrieta can easily blow out their arms.  Bryant, Rizzo and Baez can get hurt.  Other NL teams will get better.  Plus, momentum is only as good as the next game's pitcher.  That's baseball.

The Yankees were the defacto headliner franchise of the 20th century for MLB and still did not participate in or lost 70+ WSs. There were lulls. The same is true of the Cards in the NL. That the Cubs are going to be awesome for a long time does not lock in the level of dominance you seem to think I'm thinking. They're going to win alot but not all of them, spend lots of money, and make even more money while drawing lots of headlines, fans, and general interest. That's the position they're in. 

Stuff like Lester and Arrieta blowing out their arms is possible, but smart guys like the guys running the Cubs can mitigate risks and damage even there. Arrieta cut down his slider usage signficiantly this year as sliders can be dangerous on the arm in excess. When they paid Lester, Epstein made the comment that 7 figure LHers have lasted longer and fared better than their RH counterparts, and Lester is the increasingly rare SP with minimal to no signficant arm injury history. Hell, this year he threw his fastball nearly 60% of the time, a career high, and had the same velocity he did when he was 24. From there, his mid-late 30s coincides with the Cubs getting their media rights money and joining the likes of the Dodgers and Yankees in spending power. Lester's deal, already manageable as is, becomes even less of a thing. The first time they may even consider paying a RH FA SP huge money will be the low-mid 20s aged Ohtani if not Arrieta, an arm they have tons of in house and up close info on. Little details like that are what will make the Cubs what they are on track to be just by the end of the decade.

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21 hours ago, SenorGato said:

I get that they need to find and talk about a weakness and this team has so few, but the Lester throwing to first base thing isn't really a thing. If it was it would have come up sometime in his previous 10 years. It was more funny than anything how he had Lindor dead to rights and still did not throw.

Nah, I have no problem with the Cubs, love the team they have built. I just keep getting licks in on the posters here who trashed me for knocking the Heyward signing.

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3 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Nah, I have no problem with the Cubs, love the team they have built. I just keep getting licks in on the posters here who trashed me for knocking the Heyward signing.

I still think Heyward's going to be awesome and chalk this season up to sh*t happening. I can't imagine this team's ceiling with a typical Heyward season + Schwarber in the lineup everyday.

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1 hour ago, SenorGato said:

I still think Heyward's going to be awesome and chalk this season up to sh*t happening. I can't imagine this team's ceiling with a typical Heyward season + Schwarber in the lineup everyday.

Heyward has a long swing right now, and it's been long for a while too. He's a nice RF but will be an expensive signing if he doesn't get himself right at the plate. I don't care about what teams spend, just stating the obvious. Schwarber is a DH.

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