NCJETSFAN Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The problem I have with us getting draft picks is we are probably one of the worst drafting teams in the history of the NFL so the odds of us doing anything with e draft picks is slim. We have always done better with trades and FA then with the draft over the last 30 years! Plus we have a GM whose more of a contract guy then personal man and we have same scouting dept!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen X Jet Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Can we just let the new GM do his thing before we start casting judgment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 our new GM's father coached in the NFL, and he played football and coached football. he is a life long football guy. you think he can't tell a good football player because you didn't read any articles declaring him as a personell guy ? this may come as a surprise to you, but steve gutmans drafts have nothing to do with this weeks draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The problem I have with us getting draft picks is we are probably one of the worst drafting teams in the history of the NFL so the odds of us doing anything with e draft picks is slim. We have always done better with trades and FA then with the draft over the last 30 years! Plus we have a GM whose more of a contract guy then personal man and we have same scouting dept!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCJETSFAN Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 He is a lifetime football an who has been on the contract side ! He might have done a little in personal but that's it . Nothing against him but that's what he is ! And we never draft well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The problem I have with us getting draft picks is we are probably one of the worst drafting teams in the history of the NFL so the odds of us doing anything with e draft picks is slim. We have always done better with trades and FA then with the draft over the last 30 years! Plus we have a GM whose more of a contract guy then personal man and we have same scouting dept!! So did you just wake up from a coma that started in the early 90s? Jets' draft record over the last decade has been fine with regard to quality of picks. Top of the league? No. But squarely in the middle of the pack. The problem was all the trading up and lack of quantity so we eventually ran out of gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The problem I have with us getting draft picks is we are probably one of the worst drafting teams in the history of the NFL so the odds of us doing anything with e draft picks is slim. We have always done better with trades and FA then with the draft over the last 30 years! Plus we have a GM whose more of a contract guy then personal man and we have same scouting dept!! Last time the Jets had 2 picks in the top 13 was 2000. Drafted John Abraham and Shaun Ellis. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Last time the Jets had 2 picks in the top 13 was 2000. Drafted John Abraham and Shaun Ellis. lol Yeah and they traded Abraham away when he was what, 27 or 28 years old. Sound similar to what they did with Revis now. So draft a player, they become good to great, trade them away in their prime. Yeah thats how to build a team. And they never replaced Abraham. The guy went on to have about 10 sacks a year. The Jets can't even get a guy who can get 5 sacks most years. That's the problem the Jets have with good draft picks over the years. They seem to keep and extend the David Harris's and mark Sanchez's and trade away the Revis's, Abraham's, etc while those guys are in their primes. It's one thing to trade away your best player when he's 32, it's another when they are 27. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Yeah and they traded Abraham away when he was what, 27 or 28 years old. Sound similar to what they did with Revis now. So draft a player, they become good to great, trade them away in their prime. Yeah thats how to build a team. The claim was that the odds of us doing anything with the draft picks was slim. We hit on both of them. One we kept, one we didn't, but that was years after the draft. I absolve the team of the situation with Revis. They drafted an all-time great player but one simply cannot pay a CB $16M and if that's his demand then the thing to do is keep him for as long as you can and then trade him and get something valuable in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The problem I have with us getting draft picks is we are probably one of the worst drafting teams in the history of the NFL so the odds of us doing anything with e draft picks is slim. We have always done better with trades and FA then with the draft over the last 30 years! Plus we have a GM whose more of a contract guy then personal man and we have same scouting dept!! agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TnT Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Didnt Abraham give up on this team? Am I the only one that remembers that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayNoToDMC Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Blackout has some competition, another great thread by NCJETS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The Jets have actually been much better than "middle of the pack" over the past ten years. I took a very quick look at ESPN the magazne draft issue yesterday and they broke down andy ranked every NFL team (over the last ten years I believe) and the Jets ranked 8th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JADEDGREEN Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Denver moved to NC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The problem I have with us getting draft picks is we are probably one of the worst drafting teams in the history of the NFL so the odds of us doing anything with e draft picks is slim. We have always done better with trades and FA then with the draft over the last 30 years! Plus we have a GM whose more of a contract guy then personal man and we have same scouting dept!! Trades and FA signings is what put us in the cap mess to begin with. Us being historically one of the worst drafting teams should have ZERO impact in today's strategy. We've drafted several pro bowlers and all pros in recent years. Patriots have been the worst drafting teams in recent times, incase you weren't paying attention. Quantity of picks is what gets them a decent player or two each draft. You can't survive with all FA and trade acquisitions. You draft cheap players so you can afford a few very good players in the FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlancemehlot Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The draft is a coin flip. We've done meh at it. The mangini era was better than the Rex era, even though we had the same GM. Why? Because the GM was a contract guy not a personnel guy. Idzik, I guarantee, is better on the personnel side than our last GM, the accountant. As mentioned before, the issue wasn't mediocre drafting with him, it was pissing away draft picks for Tim tebow and the like, and trading picks away for guys like Sanchez and McKnight and Greene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Yeah and they traded Abraham away when he was what, 27 or 28 years old. Sound similar to what they did with Revis now. So draft a player, they become good to great, trade them away in their prime. Yeah thats how to build a team. And they never replaced Abraham. The guy went on to have about 10 sacks a year. The Jets can't even get a guy who can get 5 sacks most years. That's the problem the Jets have with good draft picks over the years. They seem to keep and extend the David Harris's and mark Sanchez's and trade away the Revis's, Abraham's, etc while those guys are in their primes. It's one thing to trade away your best player when he's 32, it's another when they are 27. I'm still pissed we traded away Abraham. We really could have used him in 2009 and 2010 playoff runs...oh wait, he quits on the team in playoffs. Nevermind. David Harris is on the team because he didn't demand $16mil and was an all-pro. Same with Mangold and same with D'Brick. We resigned Cromartie too cuz his demands were right there with the market (I know we didn't draft him but we gave up a 3rd to acquire him while he was under his rookie contract). Point is, Revis became a luxury after the Jets pass D ranked 2nd without him almost the entire season, which made the decision slightly easier, thanks to Cromartie's all-pro level play. We are clearly rebuilding this year so Revis being on the team or not doesn't matter. It's not being able to pay $16 mil next year and losing him for a 3rd in 2015 is what matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The draft is a coin flip. We've done meh at it. The mangini era was better than the Rex era, even though we had the same GM. Why? Because the GM was a contract guy not a personnel guy. Idzik, I guarantee, is better on the personnel side than our last GM, the accountant. As mentioned before, the issue wasn't mediocre drafting with him, it was pissing away draft picks for Tim tebow and the like, and trading picks away for guys like Sanchez and McKnight and Greene. Our current GM is also an expert on contracts. He's not terrible on the personnel side but that's not his strength. The change in strategy, it seems, is rebuilding through the draft and compiling draft picks as opposed to targeting better prospects in draft and throwing away picks left and right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The draft is a coin flip. We've done meh at it. The mangini era was better than the Rex era, even though we had the same GM. Why? Because the GM was a contract guy not a personnel guy. Idzik, I guarantee, is better on the personnel side than our last GM, the accountant. As mentioned before, the issue wasn't mediocre drafting with him, it was pissing away draft picks for Tim tebow and the like, and trading picks away for guys like Sanchez and McKnight and Greene. Our current GM is also an expert on contracts. He's not terrible on the personnel side but that's not his strength. The change in strategy, it seems, is rebuilding through the draft and compiling draft picks as opposed to targeting better prospects in draft and throwing away picks left and right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JADEDGREEN Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I'm still pissed we traded away Abraham. We really could have used him in 2009 and 2010 playoff runs...oh wait, he quits on the team in playoffs. Nevermind. David Harris is on the team because he didn't demand $16mil and was an all-pro. Same with Mangold and same with D'Brick. We resigned Cromartie too cuz his demands were right there with the market (I know we didn't draft him but we gave up a 3rd to acquire him while he was under his rookie contract). Point is, Revis became a luxury after the Jets pass D ranked 2nd without him almost the entire season, which made the decision slightly easier, thanks to Cromartie's all-pro level play. We are clearly rebuilding this year so Revis being on the team or not doesn't matter. It's not being able to pay $16 mil next year and losing him for a 3rd in 2015 is what matters. Our pass D was 2nd because we were always playing from behind, we played lousy teams, and when we didn't, we got lit up. We gave up 3 touchdowns to New England without their offense even taking the field. Too easy for Mike, who consoled Sanchez at the Knicks game on Sat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Yeah and they traded Abraham away when he was what, 27 or 28 years old. Sound similar to what they did with Revis now. So draft a player, they become good to great, trade them away in their prime. Yeah thats how to build a team. And they never replaced Abraham. The guy went on to have about 10 sacks a year. The Jets can't even get a guy who can get 5 sacks most years. That's the problem the Jets have with good draft picks over the years. They seem to keep and extend the David Harris's and mark Sanchez's and trade away the Revis's, Abraham's, etc while those guys are in their primes. It's one thing to trade away your best player when he's 32, it's another when they are 27. And with the pick they got for him they drafted Nick ******* Mangold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 And with the pick they got for him they drafted Nick ******* Mangold. Trading a pass rusher for a center is a downgrade. Worse, even, than trading a CB for a guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Trading a pass rusher for a center is a downgrade. Worse, even, than trading a CB for a guard. Yes, but with the debate being centered on the Jest ability to draft I figured pointing out that the Jets used the pick they got for Abraham on an perennial All-Pro pretty much killed the myth that the Jets are the worst drafting team ever according primarily to ESPN and the "woe-is me" crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JADEDGREEN Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Yes, but with the debate being centered on the Jest ability to draft I figured pointing out that the Jets used the pick they got for Abraham on an perennial All-Pro pretty much killed the myth that the Jets are the worst drafting team ever according primarily to ESPN and the "woe-is me" crowd. Yes, but that was when we had an accountant at the helm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The Jets have actually been much better than "middle of the pack" over the past ten years. I took a very quick look at ESPN the magazne draft issue yesterday and they broke down andy ranked every NFL team (over the last ten years I believe) and the Jets ranked 8th. That sounds incredibly generous. In those ten years, some of the Jets top picks have been the bowling ball with butcher knives, Mike Nugent, and a three year stretch of Vernon Gholston, Mark Sanchez, and Kyle Wilson. They had three years where they took four players or less, in total. Is the rest of the league that bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Trading a pass rusher for a center is a downgrade. Worse, even, than trading a CB for a guard. 6 years from a pass rusher and 7 years and counting from an all-pro center from one pick. Sounds pretty ******* good to me. That sounds incredibly generous. In those ten years, some of the Jets top picks have been the bowling ball with butcher knives, Mike Nugent, and a three year stretch of Vernon Gholston, Mark Sanchez, and Kyle Wilson. They had three years where they took four players or less, in total. Is the rest of the league that bad? I think the rest of the league probably is that bad. 8th sounds a bit high, but I'm confident the Jets are better than mid-pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 That sounds incredibly generous. In those ten years, some of the Jets top picks have been the bowling ball with butcher knives, Mike Nugent, and a three year stretch of Vernon Gholston, Mark Sanchez, and Kyle Wilson. They had three years where they took four players or less, in total. Is the rest of the league that bad? In fairness, like them or not, neither Robertson nor Wilson were anywhere close to the worst players to come out of the first round of their respective draft classes. I'd guess every team, even the top drafting ones, probably has had at least a top pick or two that was that bad or worse over that time. As for Gholston and Sanchez? Let's just not talk about that, ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The problem I have with us getting draft picks is we are probably one of the worst drafting teams in the history of the NFL so the odds of us doing anything with e draft picks is slim. We have always done better with trades and FA then with the draft over the last 30 years! Plus we have a GM whose more of a contract guy then personal man and we have same scouting dept!! Yay... another poster that can't see past the tip of his nose, but has to start a thread about everything!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 In fairness, like them or not, neither Robertson nor Wilson were anywhere close to the worst players to come out of the first round of their respective draft classes. I'd guess every team, even the top drafting ones, probably has had at least a top pick or two that was that bad or worse over that time. As for Gholston and Sanchez? Let's just not talk about that, ok? Gholston was a bust of epic proportion, but Sanchez wasn't terrible. Remember, we barely gave up anything to trade-up forr Sanchez, and he did contribute to (not "lead us" to) a couple winning seasons. I think there are 2 types of busts, there are hard-busts like Gholston where they tie up a roster spot, salary and never contribute ANYTHING... and there are soft-busts like Sanchez where he's serviceable for a while, at least contributes something and stays in the league, but never justifies his draft position. Mark would have been best-served sitting out his first year. Period. If we do that, I think we have a completely different player on our hands now. QB requires a maturity and mental stature that most people the age of a rookie do not possess, it is a grown-ups position and mentality. The rookies who get it early are either bless athletically to the point of over-compensating for their immaturity, or mature beyond their years like Peyton was. You know I'm not a fan of Sanchez, at all really. But I do think it's only fair to look at all variables that contributed to the failure by this franchise to help him matriculate successfully. At this point, he's ruined as a starter. Being benched, but kept, might help salvage him. He needs to stop blaming everyone around him too though, accept the situation for what it is. I've said it before, some students can cram for a test all night and get a D... and that is their ceiling. Some can blow off studies and get an A. Hard work is admirable, but not the only ingredient for success, especially at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Trading a pass rusher for a center is a downgrade. Worse, even, than trading a CB for a guard. This is so damn true. Especially when you just cut a pro-bowl center who then went on to play multiple years in Tenn at a high level. Mawae was part of CJ2K's big season, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Didnt Abraham give up on this team? Am I the only one that remembers that? No, no you're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Gholston was a bust of epic proportion, but Sanchez wasn't terrible. Remember, we barely gave up anything to trade-up forr Sanchez, and he did contribute to (not "lead us" to) a couple winning seasons. I think there are 2 types of busts, there are hard-busts like Gholston where they tie up a roster spot, salary and never contribute ANYTHING... and there are soft-busts like Sanchez where he's serviceable for a while, at least contributes something and stays in the league, but never justifies his draft position. Mark would have been best-served sitting out his first year. Period. If we do that, I think we have a completely different player on our hands now. QB requires a maturity and mental stature that most people the age of a rookie do not possess, it is a grown-ups position and mentality. The rookies who get it early are either bless athletically to the point of over-compensating for their immaturity, or mature beyond their years like Peyton was. You know I'm not a fan of Sanchez, at all really. But I do think it's only fair to look at all variables that contributed to the failure by this franchise to help him matriculate successfully. At this point, he's ruined as a starter. Being benched, but kept, might help salvage him. He needs to stop blaming everyone around him too though, accept the situation for what it is. I've said it before, some students can cram for a test all night and get a D... and that is their ceiling. Some can blow off studies and get an A. Hard work is admirable, but not the only ingredient for success, especially at QB. I do actually agree with you and wasn't originally going to lump Sanchez in with Gholston, but I didn't feel like getting into the mess that I thought might erupt from insinuating that Sanchez might not be the worst player in league history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JADEDGREEN Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Yay... another poster that can't see past the tip of his nose, but has to start a thread about everything!!! And you encourage them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I am really losing track of all the rules. I'm sure I missed a few, but here I the ones I remember off the top of my head: Don't draft a QB that doesn't have prototypical size and a cannon. No RBs early or from Penn St. No workout warriors (even if they had big division college production) No trade ups-you are squandering our depth! Don't draft too good of a player or you will have to pay them too much or trade them No players from non-premium positions No FAs. The draft is they way to build a team and FAs are expensive Now I learn that we shouldn't have draft picks because we don't know what to do with them. How does this team manage to field a roster every year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 And you encourage them! Yep. All my fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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