shawn306 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Clowney reminds me so much of Julius Peppers it is not even funny. When he wants to play he will be unblockable, but when he starts feeling like he is underpaid he will shut it down. He was unreal as a sophmore but he saw what happened to Marcus Lattimore and all the millions he lost because he tore up his knee and I have no doubt that he totally just went through the motions and played not to get hurt. Wherever he goes he will frustrate fans the way Peppers did here with the Panthers, or if you want to go back a little further the way John Abraham frustrated Jets fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Wherever he goes he will frustrate fans the way Peppers did here with the Panthers, or if you want to go back a little further the way John Abraham frustrated Jets fans. johnny abe + 20 pounds is a good comparison. Clowney will get you 3 sacks in a game you are up by 20 and not show up for the playoffs. In fairness to Abe he's finally become a good solid all around NFL player but it's taken like 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 btw Greg Robinson is a beast who does not know how to pass protect. It will take him 3+ seasons to learn the game. His profile is similar to that of Jason Peters. All pro athleticism but alot to learn. Lewan and matthews are way more pro ready. In fact, i think Lewan is secretly the best of the bunch. Since this is a Clowney thread, go look at that UM bowl game from last year (ya know, the year when Clowney didn't mail it in). That gif hit on the RB was against a no name guard. Lewan actually shut down Clowney all game long. There's no film of Clowney beating pro prospects. He beats scrubs or guys who forgot their blocking assignments. I saw Vernon Gholston beat Jake Long to the inside and overpower both he and Mike Hart to get to hit Henne within two seconds, but he wasn't a football player. Clowney has better measurables, is good against the run and is actually a good football player. We clearly disagree here. I think he's the best player in the draft and should go #1 whereas you vehemently disagree, but still would take up top 7. We'll see come May and this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 7.27 isn't a crazy bad 3 cone for a man his size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Clowney reminds me so much of Julius Peppers it is not even funny. When he wants to play he will be unblockable, but when he starts feeling like he is underpaid he will shut it down. He was unreal as a sophmore but he saw what happened to Marcus Lattimore and all the millions he lost because he tore up his knee and I have no doubt that he totally just went through the motions and played not to get hurt. Wherever he goes he will frustrate fans the way Peppers did here with the Panthers, or if you want to go back a little further the way John Abraham frustrated Jets fans. So basically his floor is a borderline HOFer who makes the whiniest fans in sports whine? Boo hoo, football fans are insufferable for this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 here's another reason Clowney's overrated: he's an edge rusher with no inside moves. This is a quick pass league, 3 step drop, 1 step drop, Clowney isn't gonna get all day to run around the edge the long way. That's why players like JJ Watt and Mo/Sheldon are so interesting, the QB can't just step up and avoid the interior crush. these guys are also threats to pass deflect. Clowney's lateral quickness is below average which means he's purely a 4-3 DE you can't stand him up and ask him to play in space. That's not an opinion by the way, look up his 3 cone. He's also about 50 pounds too light to gap clog as a 3-4 DE and why would you ask him to do that any way at top 3 prices? and since we are loading up on him, his brother was a flake who only showed up part of the time. That's the same gene pool as David Clowney. Just sayin. Stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 and since we are loading up on him, his brother was a flake who only showed up part of the time. That's the same gene pool as David Clowney. Just sayin. Fridge = nuked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 here's a question does David Carr help Derek Carr's stock? on one hand it's nice that he has a brother in the pros. On the other hand he's David Carr. These guys look at everything the fact that his older brother was a fast guy who never played to his potential is going to be a fact under consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I think he's the best player in the draft and should go #1 whereas you vehemently disagree, but still would take up top 7. We'll see come May and this season. if the Texans ran the 4-3 and had a good young qb, sure... why not buy him at 1. I don't hate the guy. Just think he's got a much higher bust factor than other top prospects. As it stands this guy doesn't fit their system and isn't a position of need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 the fact that his older brother was a fast guy who never played to his potential is going to be a fact under consideration. By morons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 By morons. Wow that's unusual for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Wow that's unusual for you. Is it? Is it Mick? Or is it just SO usual that's blowing your mind?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor99 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 So, no grit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 IMO, the Texans will trade down and Clowney is the lock pick at 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 IMO, the Texans will trade down and Clowney is the lock pick at 1. The llama is back!! or if you're feeling a bit more cultured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Is it? Is it Mick? Or is it just SO usual that's blowing your mind?? No pretty unusual. Normally you don't give up or call people names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 No pretty unusual. Normally you don't give up or call people names. I didn't call anyone specific names. I said the hypothetical draft gnomes that Bit was referring to were morons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Every single big man, save for Watt was questioned for laziness or knocked for taking plays off. Clowney is not just the most physically gifted player to come out in years, but is a very good football player to boot. He saw his own teammate end his career on one play and was probably taking advice from agents telling him take care of his body, just get to the draft and you're going number one. Now he's getting further criticism because he canceled workouts: well sh*t, he just saw that OT tear up his knee doing workouts for teams who may not even draft him. I don't blame him for skipping those workouts with teams outside the top 5, he's got way more to lose by doing workouts for teams he won't fall to, then by not doing them. Also, this whole nonsense of whether or not he earns a second contract is bogus. He's the best player in the draft, draft him. Same goes for Robinson. People hated Abraham because of him thinking about himself and his career above the team, but somehow people think it's ok for Clowney to essentially mail in his last year in college for kind of the same reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Isn't this what they said about Coples? (except that Clowney's ceiling is higher and, with Coples his, great season was playing inside) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Isn't this what they said about Coples? (except that Clowney's ceiling is higher and, with Coples his, great season was playing inside) it's a simplistic comparison, remember Coples showed up to the Senior Bowl and dominated. If Clowney was a likely top 15 pick that would be fine. I have no problem with Clowney at Coples prices. I have a problem with making a guy who mailed it in for a season the top pick in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 People hated Abraham because of him thinking about himself and his career above the team, but somehow people think it's ok for Clowney to essentially mail in his last year in college for kind of the same reasons. Well, considering I was never one of "those people," this has zero bearing on how I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 it's a simplistic comparison, remember Coples showed up to the Senior Bowl and dominated. If Clowney was a likely top 15 pick that would be fine. I have no problem with Clowney at Coples prices. I have a problem with making a guy who mailed it in for a season the top pick in the draft. It's definitely a concern, but the rookie wage scale makes it less of one. The top pick of the draft signed a 4 year/$22M contract last year. If you believe that Clowney is the best player in the draft, it's an affordable risk to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 wait--a talented kid has depended more on that talent than hard work to get to this point? gee, clowney must be the first draftee to ever fit that description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 it's a simplistic comparison, remember Coples showed up to the Senior Bowl and dominated. If Clowney was a likely top 15 pick that would be fine. I have no problem with Clowney at Coples prices. I have a problem with making a guy who mailed it in for a season the top pick in the draft. What prices? I don't remember anything because I don't watch Senior Bowls or combines. I'm going on memory of what was posted here, which was that Coples should have been a top 5 pick but his last season wasn't as great as the one before, with these same labels of trying when it suits him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 What prices? I don't remember anything because I don't watch Senior Bowls or combines. I'm going on memory of what was posted here, which was that Coples should have been a top 5 pick but his last season wasn't as great as the one before, with these same labels of trying when it suits him. There are some similarities but no one ever was trying to make the case for Coples as top pick. That's pretty much my beef with Clowney. Great prospect, not great enough for #1 overall. If he goes 5 or 6 or 7, hey fair enough. I just don't think he's worthy of 1 overall and frankly, Coples wasn't either. FWIW Coples had 7.5 sacks as a senior, 10 as a junior. Clowney went from 13 to 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetfanincanada Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I think we should draft him in the second round if he falls to us. He is worth a chance on a second rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 it's a simplistic comparison, remember Coples showed up to the Senior Bowl and dominated. If Clowney was a likely top 15 pick that would be fine. I have no problem with Clowney at Coples prices. I have a problem with making a guy who mailed it in for a season the top pick in the draft. Yeah, no sh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 This thread is almost literally painful to get through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 There are some similarities but no one ever was trying to make the case for Coples as top pick. That's pretty much my beef with Clowney. Great prospect, not great enough for #1 overall. If he goes 5 or 6 or 7, hey fair enough. I just don't think he's worthy of 1 overall and frankly, Coples wasn't either. FWIW Coples had 7.5 sacks as a senior, 10 as a junior. Clowney went from 13 to 3. That's because Coples wasn't near the prospect that Clowney is. Of course he wasn't deserving of the first overall pick, no one even hinted at that being a possibility. You'd like the best player in the draft at a lesser price, who wouldn't, what kind of argument is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freemanm Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 If he were a defensive tackle, he could be named DeWayne Robertson II. Jadeveon Clowney has been called many things. Supremely talented? Check. Can't-miss prospect? Another check. Well, one NFC executive didn't use any of those words. According to him, the defensive end prospect out of South Carolina is the exact opposite. "He's spoiled and he's lazy," the unnamed scouting director told NJ.com. "He's never worked hard a day in his life, now all of a sudden you're going to give him a bunch of money and expect him to work hard. I don't see it." Wow, harsh words. However, this same man doesn't doubt that Clowney will be a high pick come May's NFL Draft. "Oh, he's going to be a high pick," he said. "Some team will fall in love with him. But wait and see, just wait and see. I just don't think you can count on him. I'm betting the under on him." Which team will roll the dice on him? The Houston Texans own the No. 1 pick in the draft, and new head coach Bill O'Brien has said he has no concerns over Clowney's work ethic. What's more, the unnamed executive's comments could just be a mind game being played on the rest of the league to downplay Clowney's worth. And for what it's worth, the personnel man isn't a fan of any of the defensive line prospects in this draft. "It's a bad year. It's the worst group I've seen in a long time." Well, at least he's hating everyone equally, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 You'd like the best player in the draft at a lesser price Clowney is the most athletic prospect in the draft. He's not the best player in the draft. Players make plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Clowney is the most athletic prospect in the draft. He's not the best player in the draft. Players make plays. You have this wrong. He's the best player and not the best athlete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Clowney is the most athletic prospect in the draft. He's not the best player in the draft. Players make plays. I think he's the best player in the draft by a decent margin and Robinson is right up there, but that's fine you disagree. What I just don't understand is your arbitrary assignment that he's worth the 5th overall pick in a very talented draft, but that 1st is just unreasonable. You have someone who has a prolific sophomore year, is schemed against, goes under a microscope and then inevitably gets knocked, because unless he's perfect, that's all that's left to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 What I just don't understand is your arbitrary assignment that he's worth the 5th overall pick in a very talented draft, but that 1st is just unreasonable. it's a valid question. His athleticism makes him worthy of a high pick. I recognize how rare he is as an athlete. But his motor leaves something to be desired. BTW he's not a QB that also makes him not worth the 1 pick. something crazy like 11 of the last 13 drafts have started with a QB. Im too lazy to look it up exactly. For the record I know people who scouted SC this year and they say CLowney dogged it this year. Flat out. There would be practices in the fall and he just wouldn't leave the locker room for the duration. This is disgusting effort for a 1 overall pick. I don't see how this guy will just be able to turn it on, after having it off for so long. This is not a story about a guy who tried 100% and got doubled. It's a story of a dog who gets by on athleticism alone. That's a recipe for disaster in the NFL. Everyone is an athlete at that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I recognize how rare he is as an athlete. You overrate how rare he is as an athlete. That's half the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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