If Tannenbaum was still GM

[Sperm Edwards]

When Tanny and Mangini were here, Mangini was the GM. We drafted and signed choir boys and three piece suits. When Tanny and Rex were here, Rex was the GM. We signed or traded for anything not nailed down. Neither system really worked. The first playoff run should never have happened but Indy and Cincinnatti took a nap against us at season's end. The second was legit, but we still had to play all road games. Fact is, Tanny was our cap guy, and a mouthpiece for the coaches, IMHO.

 

 

Rex was never the GM.  Not in reality and not in spirit.  It was made somewhat public that at best Rex got to make 1 draft pick, and not necessarily an early one (e.g. John Conner).  There were other draft picks made, like Hill, that Rex was totally against (yet Tannenbaum not only burned a high pick on him, but traded up for the privilege).  

 

If there was some high-priced player he knew & said he just had to have to make his defense work, Tannenbaum often obliged (like Bart Scott). But it's hardly unheard of for a player to follow a loved coach to his new team when he hits FA, especially when that coach's new team is flush with cap space.  But the story for guys like Holmes was that Tannenbaum asked Rex if he wanted him because he could get him, not that Rex commanded Tannenbaum to go get him (literally no one even hints that this happened).  That was for a 5th round pick and a contract under $1M.  There is no basis for an assumption that Rex then commanded Tannenbaum to re-sign Holmes no matter how much it cost, even $20M or so guaranteed.  That's on Tannenbaum.  He was the GM.  He's the one that arranged the contracts so all of our WRs hit free agency at the same time, when the CBA ran out, and forced his own hand.

 

I do think Mangini had more say in GM type duties, but a lot of that stemmed from Tannenbaum being a newbie as a GM.  When Rex got here, Tannenbaum was entering his 4th year in the position and clearly felt he knew what he was doing.  Tannenbaum hired Rex, not the other way around.  Rex worked for Tannenbaum.  To Tannenbaum, Rex was a DC that he gave a promotion to, not a de-facto heavyweight (figurative heavyweight) GM that he took marching orders from.

 

I can't believe people still go on with the "Rex is/was the real GM here, and Tannenbaum was his lackey" type of stuff.  Tannenbaum did what Tannenbaum wanted.  Only exception would have been if/when Woody chimed in with his worthless opinion.

[Sperm Edwards]

My take on "If Tannenbaum was still here" and while there's some good it wouldn't be enough to offset the bad:

 

Revis would still be here, on a contract extension paying him an average of $16M per season.  Tannenbaum had Woody's ear and would have convinced him of how smart this would have been.  Tannenbaum said himself, after he was fired, that he'd have kept Revis and could have/would have done some restructuring maneuvers to keep him here long term.

 

No Richardson (or #13 pick in any form last year, because of no trading Revis).

 

Probably no Geno Smith, since he was all-in on Sanchez.  But if Woody finally stepped in and said all his buddies at the yacht club told him Sanchez sucks and he was to move on, then Tannenbaum definitely would have taken Smith. He wouldn't have relied on scouting to take a QB lower, but we wouldn't have gotten him in round 2 either.  He would have used the #9 pick for him, and it's wishful thinking that Tannenbaum would have used only the #9 pick on him.  No way he could have kept it in his pants long enough for the #9 pick to reach us, since he would have been convinced Geno was going earlier.  More likely he would have traded our 2nd rounder, and maybe more (like our 1st or 2nd round pick this season), to move up to grab him #1, or top 3 at worst.  Tannenbaum always gets his man.

 

So if Geno would still be here under Tannenbaum, there would be either no 1st or no 2nd round pick this year and nothing additional to show for last year's 2nd round pick.  Otherwise, Sanchez would have been restructured again to lower his huge cap hit last year.  Pick your poison; you know he would have done one or the other.

 

Shonn Greene would still be here, making $4-5M/year.

 

Dustin Keller would still be here, making $5-6M/year.

 

Mike DeVito would still be here, making $4M/year.

 

Brandon Moore still here as well, making $3M/year.  34 years old? Still better than Winters was last year.

 

Slauson is still here, locked in at $4M/year.

 

Howard would still be here, locked in at $7M/year.

 

Maybe this is the year we'd have cut Pouha.  Maybe.

 

Bart Scott still probably gets cut, but there's a chance we'd have re-signed him for a lower deal.

 

Under the current circumstances, even Tannenbaum probably would have cut ties with Holmes.

 

Good chance we still would have signed Decker, but he would have cost 40-50% more, in the $9-10M/year range.

 

DeSean Jackson probably wouldn't have happened.  Sorry, I don't see it.  Not even by trade.  Just coming off paying $10M per to Decker, and still invested in Stephen Hill (who he moved up to draft in round 2, and everyone knows the book says year 3 is when WR prospects become top notch players), and we still have Kerley.  Plus we're a running team and we can draft a WR in rounds 5-7 again (i.e. Kerley, White).

 

No Ivory.  No Goodson.  (As mentioned, we'd have already re-signed Greene and he was the one who drafted Powell.  Plus last year as likely as not we'd have kept Joe McKnight aboard anyway. Forgot about him, didn't you? I know you did).

 

CJ he would have found a way to make room for, but he would have traded our 3rd round pick for him.  3rd and a 5th, actually.  That's his comfort zone, having done that one twice before.

 

Still would not have signed the other FA CBs this year, but we don't need them because we have Revis and Cromartie and are paying $25M/year for the pair.  

 

We also would NOT have signed Byrd.  That's because Tannenbaum would have locked us into Rex-favorite Ed Reed, on day 1 of free agency after the Ravens won the SB.  Rex would have knocked on his front door at 12:01 am.

 

I've lost track of how much cap room we'd have available now, but Ferguson and Mangold and Harris would have been extended to make room for some of these moves, meaning they'll all still be hitting our salary cap when they turn 40.  But don't worry; I heard the cap ceiling will be $230M by then so it won't matter.

 

This year no 2nd round pick (traded that away moving up for Geno last year), no 4th rounder for Revis, and no compensatory picks.  Also no 3rd and no 5th for CJ.  OK I'll pretend he didn't also trade the 5th rounder.

 

Total 2014 draft picks:  1 pick each in rounds 1, 4, 5, 6, 7.  Impossible for him to resist packaging the 6th-7th rounders to move up from our round 4 pick, so it just ends up being a 1, a higher 4 than we originally had, and a 5. In a deep, deep draft.

 

[Stonehands]

Saying what Tannenbaum would have done with this cap space and draft picks is like saying what a 4 pack a day smoker with do with Lance Armstrong's lungs.  We wouldn't have had this cap space or this number of draft picks under Tannenbaum's watch.  Tannenbaum managed like he was running a fantasy football team or playing Madden.  There is a reason he doesn't have another NFL gig.

[SouthernJet]

when your position requires you side with the tannenbaum method, you should take a month off and hope everyone forgets, lol

[Lizard King]

My take on "If Tannenbaum was still here" and while there's some good it wouldn't be enough to offset the bad:

Revis would still be here, on a contract extension paying him an average of $16M per season. Tannenbaum had Woody's ear and would have convinced him of how smart this would have been. Tannenbaum said himself, after he was fired, that he'd have kept Revis and could have/would have done some restructuring maneuvers to keep him here long term.

No Richardson (or #13 pick in any form last year, because of no trading Revis).

Probably no Geno Smith, since he was all-in on Sanchez. But if Woody finally stepped in and said all his buddies at the yacht club told him Sanchez sucks and he was to move on, then Tannenbaum definitely would have taken Smith. He wouldn't have relied on scouting to take a QB lower, but we wouldn't have gotten him in round 2 either. He would have used the #9 pick for him, and it's wishful thinking that Tannenbaum would have used only the #9 pick on him. No way he could have kept it in his pants long enough for the #9 pick to reach us, since he would have been convinced Geno was going earlier. More likely he would have traded our 2nd rounder, and maybe more (like our 1st or 2nd round pick this season), to move up to grab him #1, or top 3 at worst. Tannenbaum always gets his man.

So if Geno would still be here under Tannenbaum, there would be either no 1st or no 2nd round pick this year and nothing additional to show for last year's 2nd round pick. Otherwise, Sanchez would have been restructured again to lower his huge cap hit last year. Pick your poison; you know he would have done one or the other.

Shonn Greene would still be here, making $4-5M/year.

Dustin Keller would still be here, making $5-6M/year.

Mike DeVito would still be here, making $4M/year.

Brandon Moore still here as well, making $3M/year. 34 years old? Still better than Winters was last year.

Slauson is still here, locked in at $4M/year.

Howard would still be here, locked in at $7M/year.

Maybe this is the year we'd have cut Pouha. Maybe.

Bart Scott still probably gets cut, but there's a chance we'd have re-signed him for a lower deal.

Under the current circumstances, even Tannenbaum probably would have cut ties with Holmes.

Good chance we still would have signed Decker, but he would have cost 40-50% more, in the $9-10M/year range.

DeSean Jackson probably wouldn't have happened. Sorry, I don't see it. Not even by trade. Just coming off paying $10M per to Decker, and still invested in Stephen Hill (who he moved up to draft in round 2, and everyone knows the book says year 3 is when WR prospects become top notch players), and we still have Kerley. Plus we're a running team and we can draft a WR in rounds 5-7 again (i.e. Kerley, White).

No Ivory. No Goodson. (As mentioned, we'd have already re-signed Greene and he was the one who drafted Powell. Plus last year as likely as not we'd have kept Joe McKnight aboard anyway. Forgot about him, didn't you? I know you did).

CJ he would have found a way to make room for, but he would have traded our 3rd round pick for him. 3rd and a 5th, actually. That's his comfort zone, having done that one twice before.

Still would not have signed the other FA CBs this year, but we don't need them because we have Revis and Cromartie and are paying $25M/year for the pair.

We also would NOT have signed Byrd. That's because Tannenbaum would have locked us into Rex-favorite Ed Reed, on day 1 of free agency after the Ravens won the SB. Rex would have knocked on his front door at 12:01 am.

I've lost track of how much cap room we'd have available now, but Ferguson and Mangold and Harris would have been extended to make room for some of these moves, meaning they'll all still be hitting our salary cap when they turn 40. But don't worry; I heard the cap ceiling will be $230M by then so it won't matter.

This year no 2nd round pick (traded that away moving up for Geno last year), no 4th rounder for Revis, and no compensatory picks. Also no 3rd and no 5th for CJ. OK I'll pretend he didn't also trade the 5th rounder.

Total 2014 draft picks: 1 pick each in rounds 1, 4, 5, 6, 7. Impossible for him to resist packaging the 6th-7th rounders to move up from our round 4 pick, so it just ends up being a 1, a higher 4 than we originally had, and a 5. In a deep, deep draft.

Sweet mother of God.....

I think you're right though. Scary

[T0mShane]

Rex was never the GM. Not in reality and not in spirit. It was made somewhat public that at best Rex got to make 1 draft pick, and not necessarily an early one (e.g. John Conner). There were other draft picks made, like Hill, that Rex was totally against (yet Tannenbaum not only burned a high pick on him, but traded up for the privilege).

If there was some high-priced player he knew & said he just had to have to make his defense work, Tannenbaum often obliged (like Bart Scott). But it's hardly unheard of for a player to follow a loved coach to his new team when he hits FA, especially when that coach's new team is flush with cap space. But the story for guys like Holmes was that Tannenbaum asked Rex if he wanted him because he could get him, not that Rex commanded Tannenbaum to go get him (literally no one even hints that this happened). That was for a 5th round pick and a contract under $1M. There is no basis for an assumption that Rex then commanded Tannenbaum to re-sign Holmes no matter how much it cost, even $20M or so guaranteed. That's on Tannenbaum. He was the GM. He's the one that arranged the contracts so all of our WRs hit free agency at the same time, when the CBA ran out, and forced his own hand.

I do think Mangini had more say in GM type duties, but a lot of that stemmed from Tannenbaum being a newbie as a GM. When Rex got here, Tannenbaum was entering his 4th year in the position and clearly felt he knew what he was doing. Tannenbaum hired Rex, not the other way around. Rex worked for Tannenbaum. To Tannenbaum, Rex was a DC that he gave a promotion to, not a de-facto heavyweight (figurative heavyweight) GM that he took marching orders from.

I can't believe people still go on with the "Rex is/was the real GM here, and Tannenbaum was his lackey" type of stuff. Tannenbaum did what Tannenbaum wanted. Only exception would have been if/when Woody chimed in with his worthless opinion.

Cool story, bro.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Maybe we need a combo. Two years of Idzik's smart decisions followed by two years of Tanny's wild spending. Rinse and repeat. Amirite.

[Sperm Edwards]

Cool story, bro.

Cool vagina, sis.

[T0mShane]

Cool vagina, sis.

Vagina rules the world

/end reparteé

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Vagina rules the world

/end reparteé

Cool accent, dullard.

[dbatesman]

We'd still have Geno, but we would have traded up to #5 overall to take him.

[jack48]

Rex was never the GM.  Not in reality and not in spirit.  It was made somewhat public that at best Rex got to make 1 draft pick, and not necessarily an early one (e.g. John Conner).  There were other draft picks made, like Hill, that Rex was totally against (yet Tannenbaum not only burned a high pick on him, but traded up for the privilege).  

 

If there was some high-priced player he knew & said he just had to have to make his defense work, Tannenbaum often obliged (like Bart Scott). But it's hardly unheard of for a player to follow a loved coach to his new team when he hits FA, especially when that coach's new team is flush with cap space.  But the story for guys like Holmes was that Tannenbaum asked Rex if he wanted him because he could get him, not that Rex commanded Tannenbaum to go get him (literally no one even hints that this happened).  That was for a 5th round pick and a contract under $1M.  There is no basis for an assumption that Rex then commanded Tannenbaum to re-sign Holmes no matter how much it cost, even $20M or so guaranteed.  That's on Tannenbaum.  He was the GM.  He's the one that arranged the contracts so all of our WRs hit free agency at the same time, when the CBA ran out, and forced his own hand.

 

I do think Mangini had more say in GM type duties, but a lot of that stemmed from Tannenbaum being a newbie as a GM.  When Rex got here, Tannenbaum was entering his 4th year in the position and clearly felt he knew what he was doing.  Tannenbaum hired Rex, not the other way around.  Rex worked for Tannenbaum.  To Tannenbaum, Rex was a DC that he gave a promotion to, not a de-facto heavyweight (figurative heavyweight) GM that he took marching orders from.

 

I can't believe people still go on with the "Rex is/was the real GM here, and Tannenbaum was his lackey" type of stuff.  Tannenbaum did what Tannenbaum wanted.  Only exception would have been if/when Woody chimed in with his worthless opinion.

I have always felt that Tanny was riding on Mangini's dime, that he did not have the chops to be a GM, and that you don't learn the job by doing it. You better have a pretty good idea coming in. You could be right about Rex. I suppose the Kyle Wilson pick made me suspicious. And all those DL drafts. We paid no attention to offense through these years. You are right about Rex hating the Hill pick. I will buy your explanation. I just never felt Tanny knew what he was talking about, that he was blowing smoke. Sometimes you listen to a guy and say "No, he is wrong." Other times you listen to a guy and you say "He is just an idiot." When i sense that, I always look for someone else to be pushing the buttons. Conspiracy theorist at heart, I guess.

[Sperm Edwards]

I have always felt that Tanny was riding on Mangini's dime, that he did not have the chops to be a GM, and that you don't learn the job by doing it. You better have a pretty good idea coming in. You could be right about Rex. I suppose the Kyle Wilson pick made me suspicious. And all those DL drafts. We paid no attention to offense through these years. You are right about Rex hating the Hill pick. I will buy your explanation. I just never felt Tanny knew what he was talking about, that he was blowing smoke. Sometimes you listen to a guy and say "No, he is wrong." Other times you listen to a guy and you say "He is just an idiot." When i sense that, I always look for someone else to be pushing the buttons. Conspiracy theorist at heart, I guess.

I don't think we paid no attention to offense at all. His first year the draft was ALL offense.

After that we kept picking up (or had already picked up) free agents entrenched in the positions. Why burn a 1st on a RB when we already have the guy we used 3 picks to get (Greene) plus LT plus McKnight?

At WR the starters were brought in using draft picks. Just not ROOKIE draft picks. But how do you think we got Braylon and Holmes? Draft picks.

At TE we already had Keller, having traded up into round 1 to get him the year before Rex got here.

Sometimes you have to look at the team and where we got everyone from instead of just looking at the list of draft picks as though they existed in a vacuum. Admittedly, it's an easy trap to fall into though.

[T0mShane]

Cool accent, dullard.

Thánks!

[SouthernJet]

Cool vagina, sis.

[j4jets]

The resources that you speak of wouldn't be available if tanny was here. We wouldn't have 12 picks in the draft either. Our cap situation and our number of pics are the result of the things that Idzik has done since he has been here. Idzik>>>>>Tanny hands down.

 

Idzik has improved out cap situation and the 12 picks, but we were always going to have a huge cap space for this year. Sanchez, Cro, Holmes and Revis (post Tanny trade) we all scheduled to be off the books for 2014 and all were making 10+ mil each. We are sitting at over $20mil in cap space after acquiring CJ0.5K. With Tanny, we probably would have had closer to $6-7 mil in space, and would have had Revis back in NY on a longer term contract (4 yrs $45mil + another 10mil in incentives?). But we probably pay an extra mil to Decker and keep Howard for an additional 2-3 mil of what Breno is making. Idzik should've pulled the plug on Revis but I think the orders came down from Woody not to pursue him. Without him, Tanny would've picked up one of the Cromarties for $4mil or $8 mil a piece. Either way, Tanny wasn't going to hold anything back and be a "win now" guy. Idzik is trying to build a more stable and long term team. I don't mind either.

[Savage69]

Rex was never the GM.  Not in reality and not in spirit.  It was made somewhat public that at best Rex got to make 1 draft pick, and not necessarily an early one (e.g. John Conner).  There were other draft picks made, like Hill, that Rex was totally against (yet Tannenbaum not only burned a high pick on him, but traded up for the privilege).  

 

 

I can't believe people still go on with the "Rex is/was the real GM here, and Tannenbaum was his lackey" type of stuff.  Tannenbaum did what Tannenbaum wanted.  Only exception would have been if/when Woody chimed in with his worthless opinion.

Along with Rex not wanting Hill was Bradway begging to take Russell Wilson Tanny didn't listen to either one..

[Il Mostro]

Tanny was nothing more than a glorified accountant who was wildly shooting from the hip in a desperate attempt to prove he was what he clearly wasn't -- a qualified NFL GM.  

[LWC611]

He is not the GM and Thank God.  Let us move on!!!

[Sully80]

Would that invalidate his point in any way? Stop being pedantic and disingenuous.

I wasn't trying to be over scrupulous, I was just saying. I've liked Idzik's moves all offseason, I think he's done a great job and I wasn't trying to discredit him in any way

[Jetfanincanada]

I know Tanny is everyones favorite whipping boy, but he was not a wild and crazy spender until Woody pushed him to be that way. Woody wanted to make a splash and get Favre, Woody pushed the franchise to trade up and try to draft a franchise QB. Woody pushed for Tebow. The Jets whole org thought they were a championship caliber team, and Tanny acted like Denver is now. In the early days of his GM tenure he was much more like Idzik the great than the way people portray him now.

 

And I don't even like Tanny, I just refuse to give that total asshat Woody a pass when the mess was much more his fault than anyone else's. Generally speaking, people listen to their boss.

[jgb]

If Tanny was still the GM we wouldn't have 12 draft picks or money to sign anyone. The bitches would still be bitching

 

we also might not have drafted geno, which means sanchez probably isn't in at the end of the snoopy bowl, which means he would've played last season, and quite possibly might not have been cut. now that is truly petrifying.

 

edit: nevermind we probably would've traded back into round 1 to draft geno

[Drums]

The Tannenbaum method did help get us to two AFC Championship games in two years.

 

I'm not saying Idzik is doing a bad job ... I'll reserve my opinion until he has some time to mold this roster.

 

But the NFL is a "now" league, and Tannenbaum operated that way, which wasn't always a bad way to go given some of the success we had during his tenure.

 

I really feel the reason we got to those AFC champ games were because of Rex's defense more so than anything else.  It was also Tanny's, 4th and 5th years here.