Poll: Are you rooting for a meaningless win or a better draft pick?

[Jetsfan80]

please tell me how all 6 teams will finish

 

oh, you can't

 

please tell me how all 10 top prospects will pan out in the NFL

 

oh, you can't

 

stop stressing

 

I have no idea how the tie breakers work.  because it doesn't matter right now.  there is nothing we can do about it.  we'll have months to figure out how the jets blew it and why they suck

 

stop stressing

 

1.  It's not stress.

 

2.  Quit covering for being dead wrong.  It's basically impossible for us to get any lower than the 6th pick.  We lose to the Titans this week and we jump them.  Lose out and we're a good bet to get top 3.   I'd prefer the a top 3 pick to the 5th/6th pick.

[RutgersJetFan]

please tell me how all 6 teams will finish

 

oh, you can't

 

please tell me how all 10 top prospects will pan out in the NFL

 

oh, you can't

 

stop stressing

 

I have no idea how the tie breakers work.  because it doesn't matter right now.  there is nothing we can do about it.  we'll have months to figure out how the jets blew it and why they suck

 

stop stressing

The tie breaker is strength of schedule and yes we do know how that will work out by now.

[dbatesman]

Guys come on the draft is a crapshoot

[jetgreen13]

Guys come on the draft is a crapshoot

thought provoking..

[Jetsbb]

the jets will pick between 5 and 8

 

no need to stress over a win here or there

The Jets are tied for the worst record in the league why set your sites for pick 5-8?

[southparkcpa]

The last 20 years the facts say drafting a QB #1 overall is a pretty good recipe for being mediocre or worse. 

 

Andrew Luck

Cam Newton

Sam Bradford

Matthew Stafford

JaMarcus Russell

Alex Smith

Eli Manning

Carson Palmer

David Carr

Michael Vick

Tim Couch

Peyton Manning

Drew Bledsoe

 

2 Superbowl winners who happen to be brothers, 1 budding superstar who has won 1 playoff game, 4 busts, and a whole lot of mediocrity.

 

That doesn't mean you don't draft Marriota if you have the opportunity to but this notion that losing games makes you better only works when a Manning or Luck is available.  As far as I know Marriota is neither.

Was listening to Cowherd today. They ran stats back to the late 80's and based on THEIR stats, 30 percent of all 1st rounders were busts.   All positions. Pretty alarming.

[Pac]

Was listening to Cowherd today. They ran stats back to the late 80's and based on THEIR stats, 30 percent of all 1st rounders were busts.   All positions. Pretty alarming.

 

I understand why we want the 1st pick but the stats show it has little impact on a teams fortunes. 

 

Here are the teams drafting first back to 94':

 

Houston Texans

Kansas City Chiefs

Indianapolis Colts

Carolina Panthers

St. Louis Rams

Detroit Lions

Miami Dolphins

Oakland Raiders

Houston Texans

San Francisco 49ers

San Diego Chargers

Cincinnati Bengals

Houston Texans

Atlanta Falcons

Cleveland Browns

Cleveland Browns

Indianapolis Colts

St. Louis Rams

New York Jets

Cincinnati Bengals

Cincinnati Bengals

 

1 team has won a SB as a direct result of having the # 1 pick and that's because they drafted the best QB of all time.  While the Rams won in 00', no one believes it's a result of drafting Orlando Pace.

 

So we can pine away rooting for losses but history clearly shows having the first pick does very little to help create franchises with sustained playoff success.

[Cornfed]

I'm not criticizing anyone who wants to lose for a better pick.  It certainly sounds rational.  But aside from the stuff above looking at historical data and aside from my general thoughts about winning teams winning and building winning cultures (ref the Pats, Steelers, etc), it's just hard for me to cheer against my team for that long.

 

How long have we been talking about losing out for a pick?  At least the last few weeks.  With 5 games left?  6?  More?

 

That's cheering for one's team to lose for like 40% of a season.  At what point does one cease becoming a fan of a team if they're hoping they lose?  Or maybe a new term is needed for someone cheering for some specific set of outcomes, not always including winning while reserving the term "fan" for people who cheer for wins?

 

Again, not being critical at all.  And I of course understand the narrative of why you'd want a better pick.  Just musing after work marathon.

[Obrien2Toon]

The last 20 years the facts say drafting a QB #1 overall is a pretty good recipe for being mediocre or worse.

Andrew Luck

Cam Newton

Sam Bradford

Matthew Stafford

JaMarcus Russell

Alex Smith

Eli Manning

Carson Palmer

David Carr

Michael Vick

Tim Couch

Peyton Manning

Drew Bledsoe

2 Superbowl winners who happen to be brothers, 1 budding superstar who has won 1 playoff game, 4 busts, and a whole lot of mediocrity.

That doesn't mean you don't draft Marriota if you have the opportunity to but this notion that losing games makes you better only works when a Manning or Luck is available. As far as I know Marriota is neither.

8 or 9 of the 14 would be considered the best qb we've had since obrien/namath

[southparkcpa]

I understand why we want the 1st pick but the stats show it has little impact on a teams fortunes. 

 

Here are the teams drafting first back to 94':

 

Houston Texans

Kansas City Chiefs

Indianapolis Colts

Carolina Panthers

St. Louis Rams

Detroit Lions

Miami Dolphins

Oakland Raiders

Houston Texans

San Francisco 49ers

San Diego Chargers

Cincinnati Bengals

Houston Texans

Atlanta Falcons

Cleveland Browns

Cleveland Browns

Indianapolis Colts

St. Louis Rams

New York Jets

Cincinnati Bengals

Cincinnati Bengals

 

1 team has won a SB as a direct result of having the # 1 pick and that's because they drafted the best QB of all time.  While the Rams won in 00', no one believes it's a result of drafting Orlando Pace.

 

So we can pine away rooting for losses but history clearly shows having the first pick does very little to help create franchises with sustained playoff success.

Spot on..GREAT WORK.  As a long time poster on JI, ...my sig  their said....  "players come and go, management and coaching is clearly what makes the difference.  I believe that 100 percent in sports and especially in business. 

 

Those teams draft number one because their management sucks and that flows down.

 

 

Now we wait for the homers to talk about the outliers.  Brady, Manning etc.  I believe those players, on many of your cited teams, would have had  less stellar careers.  Marino on the JETS???  Please. He thanks God it never happened.

[RutgersJetFan]

Guys come on the draft is a crapshoot

 

I can't EVER root for the team to lose! I just CAN'T!

[dbatesman]

Was listening to Cowherd today. They ran stats back to the late 80's and based on THEIR stats, 30 percent of all 1st rounders were busts.   All positions. Pretty alarming.

seems like we should prolly trade out of the 1st entirely

[adb280z]

I understand why we want the 1st pick but the stats show it has little impact on a teams fortunes. 

 

Here are the teams drafting first back to 94':

 

Houston Texans

Kansas City Chiefs

Indianapolis Colts

Carolina Panthers

St. Louis Rams

Detroit Lions

Miami Dolphins

Oakland Raiders

Houston Texans

San Francisco 49ers

San Diego Chargers

Cincinnati Bengals

Houston Texans

Atlanta Falcons

Cleveland Browns

Cleveland Browns

Indianapolis Colts

St. Louis Rams

New York Jets

Cincinnati Bengals

Cincinnati Bengals

 

1 team has won a SB as a direct result of having the # 1 pick and that's because they drafted the best QB of all time.  While the Rams won in 00', no one believes it's a result of drafting Orlando Pace.

 

So we can pine away rooting for losses but history clearly shows having the first pick does very little to help create franchises with sustained playoff success.

Orlando Pace was a 5 time All-Pro, just remember that when you complain about offensive line play.

[Pac]

seems like we should prolly trade out of the 1st entirely

 

80, aka Jar Jar Binks, would have you believe that's a perfectly acceptable scenario.

[Pac]

Orlando Pace was a 5 time All-Pro, just remember that when you complain about offensive line play.

 

Not disputing Pace was great..  just saying that team was about the QB, WR's, and RB.

[adb280z]

Not disputing Pace was great..  just saying that team was about the QB, WR's, and RB.

None of that works with a bad line.

[Pac]

Spot on..GREAT WORK.  As a long time poster on JI, ...my sig  their said....  "players come and go, management and coaching is clearly what makes the difference.  I believe that 100 percent in sports and especially in business. 

 

Those teams draft number one because their management sucks and that flows down.

 

 

Now we wait for the homers to talk about the outliers.  Brady, Manning etc.  I believe those players, on many of your cited teams, would have had  less stellar careers.  Marino on the JETS???  Please. He thanks God it never happened.

 

I might disagree with you on that last statement a bit but can't argue it too much.  Strong leadership begets strong performance.

 

and of course I remember you from JI.  we exchanged a few PM's awhile back.  I had my son up in my sig.  Happy face for the fact he was a yankees fan, sad face that he was a Jets fan etc..  Super creative stuff by me.

[Pac]

None of that works with a bad line.

 

true but are you telling me the Rams don't win that SB without Orlando Pace?  Didn't he get hurt that year?

[dbatesman]

I understand why we want the 1st pick but the stats show it has little impact on a teams fortunes. 

 

Here are the teams drafting first back to 94':

 

Houston Texans

Kansas City Chiefs

Indianapolis Colts

Carolina Panthers

St. Louis Rams

Detroit Lions

Miami Dolphins

Oakland Raiders

Houston Texans

San Francisco 49ers

San Diego Chargers

Cincinnati Bengals

Houston Texans

Atlanta Falcons

Cleveland Browns

Cleveland Browns

Indianapolis Colts

St. Louis Rams

New York Jets

Cincinnati Bengals

Cincinnati Bengals

 

1 team has won a SB as a direct result of having the # 1 pick and that's because they drafted the best QB of all time.  While the Rams won in 00', no one believes it's a result of drafting Orlando Pace.

 

So we can pine away rooting for losses but history clearly shows having the first pick does very little to help create franchises with sustained playoff success.

[Pac]

 

[adb280z]

true but are you telling me the Rams don't win that SB without Orlando Pace?  Didn't he get hurt that year?

We'll never know. I do know that teams without good offensive lines rarely have good offenses.  He was a great pick for them.

I don't think he got hurt that year.  

[RutgersJetFan]

 

 

 

[jetrider]

The last 20 years the facts say drafting a QB #1 overall is a pretty good recipe for being mediocre or worse. 

 

Andrew Luck

Cam Newton

Sam Bradford

Matthew Stafford

JaMarcus Russell

Alex Smith

Eli Manning

Carson Palmer

David Carr

Michael Vick

Tim Couch

Peyton Manning

Drew Bledsoe

 

2 Superbowl winners who happen to be brothers, 1 budding superstar who has won 1 playoff game, 4 busts, and a whole lot of mediocrity.

 

That doesn't mean you don't draft Marriota if you have the opportunity to but this notion that losing games makes you better only works when a Manning or Luck is available.  As far as I know Marriota is neither.

 

That's a lot of spin you're using.  The QB wasn't the recipe. The recipe involved all other issues the team had.

[jetrider]

I understand why we want the 1st pick but the stats show it has little impact on a teams fortunes. 

 

Here are the teams drafting first back to 94':

 

Houston Texans

Kansas City Chiefs

Indianapolis Colts

Carolina Panthers

St. Louis Rams

Detroit Lions

Miami Dolphins

Oakland Raiders

Houston Texans

San Francisco 49ers

San Diego Chargers

Cincinnati Bengals

Houston Texans

Atlanta Falcons

Cleveland Browns

Cleveland Browns

Indianapolis Colts

St. Louis Rams

New York Jets

Cincinnati Bengals

Cincinnati Bengals

 

1 team has won a SB as a direct result of having the # 1 pick and that's because they drafted the best QB of all time.  While the Rams won in 00', no one believes it's a result of drafting Orlando Pace.

 

So we can pine away rooting for losses but history clearly shows having the first pick does very little to help create franchises with sustained playoff success.

 

That only proves one elite player usually isn't enough to turn a last place team around.

[Jet Fan RI]

No question I am rooting for a Jets win, as I always do. Draft picks are nice, but I think the pats have shown that even if you win your division just about every season, it's still possible to win the division the next season despite getting low draft picks. Think it's all Brady? Forgetting the season Brady went down and they still won the division with Cassel? Is he still in the league?

[Pac]

That only proves one elite player usually isn't enough to turn a last place team around.

Isn't that what we're talking about?

[jetrider]

Isn't that what we're talking about?

 

You're spinning it to make it sound like the #1 pick was to blame, therefore we don't want the #1 pick. 

[Powpow]

Sometimes when you win, you really lose, and sometimes when you lose, you really win, and sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie, and sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose. Winning or losing is all one organic mechanism, from which one extracts what one needs.

 

Root to lose so someday you can root to win

[RutgersJetFan]

Sometimes when you win, you really lose, and sometimes when you lose, you really win, and sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie, and sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose. Winning or losing is all one organic mechanism, from which one extracts what one needs.

 

Root to lose so someday you can root to win

[Powpow]

And your mother is so stupid she wants to sign Idziot and Rex to an extension.

[win4ever]

I understand why we want the 1st pick but the stats show it has little impact on a teams fortunes. 

 

Here are the teams drafting first back to 94':

 

Houston Texans

Kansas City Chiefs

Indianapolis Colts

Carolina Panthers

St. Louis Rams

Detroit Lions

Miami Dolphins

Oakland Raiders

Houston Texans

San Francisco 49ers

San Diego Chargers

Cincinnati Bengals

Houston Texans

Atlanta Falcons

Cleveland Browns

Cleveland Browns

Indianapolis Colts

St. Louis Rams

New York Jets

Cincinnati Bengals

Cincinnati Bengals

 

1 team has won a SB as a direct result of having the # 1 pick and that's because they drafted the best QB of all time.  While the Rams won in 00', no one believes it's a result of drafting Orlando Pace.

 

So we can pine away rooting for losses but history clearly shows having the first pick does very little to help create franchises with sustained playoff success.

 

Nice work, but I do have to disagree here.  

 

1)  Losing doesn't really guarantee us the first pick, so by rooting for the team to lose, fans are really just hoping for a top 4 or 5 pick.   Winning would take us out of this area (especially with multiple wins).  So then we have to expand the search from No. 1 overall to 1-5 overall.   I think teams have made great picks in the top 5 for the past 20 years.  Bad picks?  Sure.   

 

2)  To get a top pick, the team has to be horrible.  Usually, one player doesn't mean that much to a team that they go from a good team to a bad team to a good team again from the top pick (The Colts being a very rare exception here).  Teams do improve otherwise though, sometimes through their luck changing or through other moves.  But it's usually not the case that one person solves the riddle.  

 

3)  The value aspect of having the higher pick is excellent.   The Bills went 4-12 last year.   The Bills went 6-10.   Both were bad teams obviously, but by winning those two extra games, the Bills had to forfeit their first round pick this year just to move upto that spot.  Do the Bills feel any better that they went 6-10?  Do we feel any better knowing that we went 8-8 last season?   And mostly, it's not even the choice, it's the right to choose that also matters.   If we get a lower pick, we wait on who drops to us.  Love Mariotta?  Too bad, TItans love him just as much, so they pick him.  Love Cooper? Too bad, Raiders just picked him off.  So now what do you do?  Now you have to go into lower tiers of guys that aren't quite as talented, and you are down to your lower choices who may or may not turn out to be good.  Having the highest pick possible takes the luck of the draw out of it.  You make your own bed,  you are the one that gets to choose.   Just because say the Raiders picked Russel would mean that the Lions wouldn't have picked Calvin Johnson.   Infact, the Lions had one more win that the Raiders that year, and their coach Lane Kiffin was on a Russel documentary saying that he wanted Calvin Johnson, but the owner overruled him.  

 

4)  Ignoring all that, lets say we have top 10 guys that are all rated about the same as our scouting department decided to work overtime.  Well now, you have the most leverage to move down as well.  You can pick up an extra first round pick by moving down 5 spots in the draft (the same move a win would cost us).   So to me, an extra first round pick is more likely to help us that a week 15 win over the Titans that really fires up the team.  If it were true, this year's team was a team of destiny after we ruined the Dolphins playoff hopes last year, but that hardly matters now.  

 

5)  Winning doesn't really do anything for the team long term.   Think of this season as essentially a gangrene infection on your foot, and the Jets future as your body.  There is no point in trying to save the season, because you are putting your future at risk.  Better to cut the losses now, suffer now for the greater good later.  

 

It's hard to root against the team, and I know that I'll be rooting in my heart for the Jets this Sunday, but the brain tells me that winning doesn't really do us any good.  

[jamesr]

Here's a few hypothetical "out of the box" side effects based on what we do in the last three weeks of the season.

1. Beating Miami in Wk 17 may knock them out of the playoffs. That could get their coach fired / maybe their GM too. Which in turn could lead to roster turnover etc. They could be an easier opponent in 2015 as a result
2. Losing to Miami in Wk 17 may put them in the playoffs. That could help them with signing free agents next year (maybe guys we're after too). It would give the team that belief that they are getting closer. They could be a harder opponent in 2015 as a result
3. Our result against New England in Wk 16 will affect the overall playoff seeding. That could very easily contribute to the Patsies making the Superbowl or the Patsies getting blown out on the road in Denver in the AFCCG

So there are other effects to consider beyond our own draft spot. Will we feel happier with the #1 draft spot while Brady hoists the Lombardi in Feb, or would having the #2 or #3 spot and a Patsie road blowout feel better overall?

[Jetfan13]

What does it matter, 100% they blow the pick.

exactly

[AFJF]

I like the idea of the no. 1 pick so I don't get too upset at a loss, but when I'm plopped in front of the TV or at MetLife watching the game, I cannot allow myself to cheer for the other team or to hope for the Jets to play poorly.  I just can't do it.  I root for them to win, but if they lose...meh.

[Jetsbb]

The argument winning late in the year is good for the future of the team was completely debunked when the Jets won 3 of their last 4 games after starting 5-7 last year. Winning those games gave them 1) A way worse draft pick 2) So much confidence in Geno that they didn't even make him go through a real training camp competition 3) false hope that the team was heading in the right direction.