PatsFanTX Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 It's pretty funny Tx stayed away from my post where he basically came out and admitted Belichick lied in his press conference last night. Fascinating. I only respond to intelligent posters who know the game of football. Sorry, you don't even come close to qualifying for a response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Not sure I understand what you are asking. But I am pretty spent from all the posting so running calculations is not something I really want to do right now, But I will mention the physics prof who calculated the 1 psi pressure drop caused by the temperature dropping from 70 F to 50 F, and I did check that and got the same result. The prof also said a 2 psi drop would occur if the ball started at 80 deg F and dropped to 40 deg F. I did not check that result, so I don't know if it's correct. And I don't know if that 40 F number is a misquote, because it really would not even apply. Anyways, I'll try a calculation, maybe today, to see what temp the balls would have to start at in order to drop 2 psi at 50 degrees, because that's the game temperature. If it turns out to be 80 F, that would show the prof was misquoted. I was saying to do it for 60F because I'm assuming they took the balls in to measure them at halftime and had to have heated back up a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 What really confuses me about this whole situation is the fact that it's become a given the balls will lose pressure, and I get the science. But the temperature at gametime was 51 degrees with some rain added in. Holding everything else equal, then when a game is played in GB or Buffalo at 0 degrees and snowing, wouldn't the balls be down to like 6-7 psi? How can you play with a ball that deflated? Also wouldn't the game a week before have the balls at like 9 psi? Wouldn't that be obvious. I feel like something is missing from any of these explanations. This is a good ppint. I've played football many times with a ball wr took from the house and played in sub freezing Temps. It never seemed to lose much pressure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRONX DUDE Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 We can use this to give BB an enema. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Now that's a great point. Mallet, Cassel and Hoyer would definitely know if anything was going on. It could be career suicide to come forward, though, even if they do know. And really, the Pats would've been smart to contain what they were doing to the smallest circle possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 The bold is not plausible, though. The balls don't decrease in pressure by a full pound because of a 20° temperature difference. If that was the case, the Colts' footballs also would've been below regulation pressure at halftime. And no amount of rubbing they do to wear in the footballs is increasing the pressure a full pound, either. I do agree with you when you say the investigators should make the ballboys go thru their entire routine in front of them as an experiment - which will almost certainly prove that Belichick is full of crap. Well, the ideal gas law says that's what happens. Naturally the real world may differ from that. Again, the law is only used to get some idea of how much change will occur. But nothing beats doing an actual experiment with actual footballs, The Colts balls may have started at 13.5 psi and dropped to 12.5 psi, so still legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I was saying to do it for 60F because I'm assuming they took the balls in to measure them at halftime and had to have heated back up a bit The trouble with that calculation is we really don't know how much they would have heated up. I would expect a lot less than 10 degrees heating though, assuming the test was done a few minutes after the balls were brought in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuidoYastrzemski Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 this is still cheating,no? no. Not technically. What's funny is that even if the Pats DID deflate the balls. This is a rule that the league could not care less about. The NFL wants the QBs to throw for Godly numbers. They wanty high offense. Checking the balls has never been a priority. The stated fine for breaking the rule is a paltry $20k. That's how much the league cares about this. It's only because of the stain the league has endured because of REAL issues like Ray Rice and AD and the like that they are even dealing with this seriously. Aaron Rodgers is on record saying he likes his balls OVER-inflated. Has anyone checked his footballs? A few ball boys have been interviewed and stated that for the most part, the refs come into the locker room to inspect the balls with a simple squeeze to see that they are inflated. They rarely, if ever, check with a guage. This time they did, however, as the league was informed of a possible "violation" by a butt-hurt Raven team. Whoop-de-freaking-Do. You guys act like this is some huge deal. It's the most overblown "scandal" in the history of the game. $20k and the possibility of a bit more is the league's option. Tough sh!t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 OK. So I ran the calculation of how hot the balls would have to be in the first place in order to drop 2 psi due to bringing the temp down to 50 deg F. The answer is about 90.5 deg F. So it seems the prof was not misquoted. Starting from 80 deg F, you would not get a 2 psi drop by bringing the ball temp down to 50 deg F. Thinking about that 90.5 deg F temperature, I am more skeptical than ever that the Pats can use hand rubbing to get the result they claimed. So now we have to hope the investigators do their job right and get the Pats to do their ball prep trick in front of officials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 It's pretty funny Tx stayed away from my post where he basically came out and admitted Belichick lied in his press conference last night. Fascinating. I prefer TX's posts to you constantly complaining about TX posts. Give it up. Nobody gives a sh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 no. Not technically. What's funny is that even if the Pats DID deflate the balls. This is a rule that the league could not care less about. The NFL wants the QBs to throw for Godly numbers. They wanty high offense. Checking the balls has never been a priority. The stated fine for breaking the rule is a paltry $20k. That's how much the league cares about this. It's only because of the stain the league has endured because of REAL issues like Ray Rice and AD and the like that they are even dealing with this seriously. Aaron Rodgers is on record saying he likes his balls OVER-inflated. Has anyone checked his footballs? A few ball boys have been interviewed and stated that for the most part, the refs come into the locker room to inspect the balls with a simple squeeze to see that they are inflated. They rarely, if ever, check with a guage. This time they did, however, as the league was informed of a possible "violation" by a butt-hurt Raven team. Whoop-de-freaking-Do. You guys act like this is some huge deal. It's the most overblown "scandal" in the history of the game. $20k and the possibility of a bit more is the league's option. Tough sh!t. if this were the first pats cheating accusation I would agree that there would be a 25k fine and a warning. But it's not and the penalties will be harsh. This has become a huge story threatening the integrity of the league. A 25k fine only would not suffice, the league would look like it rewards cheating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Bill Nye laying the smackdown on Belicheat: http://time.com/3681707/bill-nye-science-guy-deflategate/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Bill Nye laying the smackdown on Belicheat: http://time.com/3681707/bill-nye-science-guy-deflategate/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Bill Nye laying the smackdown on Belicheat: ] How many games has Bill Nye won in the NFL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thshadow Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 While I would consider it cheating, the way the rules are written it's not. Like I said, I'd expect temperature and pressure wording in the rule book starting next season. Well, exactly. Previously, you said that they wouldn't have heated the ball, because then he'd just come right out and say it. (Although I guess now you're saying "behind closed doors".) Anyway, it's still my guess that their "ball prep" includes heating the ball. Then, you can argue that: - no one has lied. (Bellichick pretty clearly said that their ball prep raises the pressure, and then when it "normalizes" it might be too low.) If they heat the ball, then no one manipulates the ball after they're given to the ref. - a lawyer can argue that they haven't broken any rules - that instead they've found a clever loophole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 How many games has Bill Nye won in the NFL? All of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 - a lawyer can argue that they haven't broken any rules - that instead they've found a clever loophole. Exactly, this is just another example of BB gaining another competitive advantage with great coaching. The funny thing is, all 31 other teams could have done the same thing. Obviously, they weren't smart enough to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Well, exactly. Previously, you said that they wouldn't have heated the ball, because then he'd just come right out and say it. (Although I guess now you're saying "behind closed doors".) Anyway, it's still my guess that their "ball prep" includes heating the ball. Then, you can argue that: - no one has lied. (Bellichick pretty clearly said that their ball prep raises the pressure, and then when it "normalizes" it might be too low.) If they heat the ball, then no one manipulates the ball after they're given to the ref. - a lawyer can argue that they haven't broken any rules - that instead they've found a clever loophole. Mumbles said in presser, the balls were not heated, of course he lied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Exactly, this is just another example of BB gaining another competitive advantage with great coaching. The funny thing is, all 31 other teams could have done the same thing. Obviously, they weren't smart enough to do so. If this was Belichick being a genius all along, exposing a loop-hole rather than breaking the rules, why did he lie on the podium about it when he said he had no knowledge regarding the preparation and handling of the footballs? So you think he's just a liar? Rather than both a liar and a cheater? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 If this was Belichick being a genius all along, exposing a loop-hole rather than breaking the rules, why did he lie on the podium about it when he said he had no knowledge regarding the preparation and handling of the footballs? So you think he's just a liar? Rather than both a liar and a cheater? BB did not lie on the podium. At the time, he did not know everything regarding the false charges. He did his due diligence and researched the physics involved regarding these bogus accusations. He clarified his earlier comments when he did not have all the information. This proves, once again, he is neither a liar nor cheater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thshadow Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Mumbles said in presser, the balls were not heated, of course he lied I just looked it up. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/25/transcript-of-bill-belichicks-january-24-press-conference/ The actual quote is: The atmospheric conditions, as well as the true equilibrium of the football is critical to the measurement. At no time were any of our footballs prepared anywhere other than in the locker room or in an area very close to that — never in a heated room or heated condition. That has absolutely never taken place to anyone’s knowledge or anyone’s recollection. That just didn’t happen. My guess is that they just take blow dryers to the footballs. Presumably lots of blow dryers in the locker room. That's not a "heated room" - and who knows what he means by a "heated condition". Actually, I just read a little further, and he said: Q: Is there one thing that you did that caused it to raise 1.5 PSI? Did you put it in front of the heater? Did you put it in dryers? Do you know what it was? BB: No, it was never put in front of a heater. I just said that. So I guess you're right, unless he has some clever parsings of the above, he's specifically denying what I'm guessing happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 BB did not lie on the podium. At the time, he did not know everything regarding the false charges. He did his due diligence and researched the physics involved regarding these bogus accusations. He clarified his earlier comments when he did not have all the information. This proves, once again, he is neither a liar nor cheater. You might be able to give a college course on rationalization. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 BB did not lie on the podium. At the time, he did not know everything regarding the false charges. He did his due diligence and researched the physics involved regarding these bogus accusations. He clarified his earlier comments when he did not have all the information. This proves, once again, he is neither a liar nor cheater. Bullsh*t Mumbles is the only one in NFL who hires a football researcher to payroll (ernie adams) He is a habitual liar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thshadow Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Exactly, this is just another example of BB gaining another competitive advantage with great coaching. The funny thing is, all 31 other teams could have done the same thing. Obviously, they weren't smart enough to do so. This is not a crazy thing to say. Although I guess he specifically denied heating the footballs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 It's only because of the stain the league has endured because of REAL issues like spygate and helmet communication that doent shut off and the like that they are even dealing with this seriously. fixed this for ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I just looked it up. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/25/transcript-of-bill-belichicks-january-24-press-conference/ The actual quote is: My guess is that they just take blow dryers to the footballs. Presumably lots of blow dryers in the locker room. That's not a "heated room" - and who knows what he means by a "heated condition". Actually, I just read a little further, and he said: So I guess you're right, unless he has some clever parsings of the above, he's specifically denying what I'm guessing happened. It's probly brady playing hide the football. at first just some innocent sex play they realized it gave them a competitive advantage by raising the psi due to 98.6 body Temps. someone quoted the temp needed to be somewhere around 91 so it seems to be about right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 It's probly brady playing hide the football. at first just some innocent sex play they realized it gave them a competitive advantage by raising the psi due to 98.6 body Temps. someone quoted the temp needed to be somewhere around 91 so it seems to be about right they talked to Titans ballboy on nfl radio, once refs turn over balls back to team, 5 min before kickoff, there is nothing to stop a ballboy from sticking a pin in them during game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 You might be able to give a college course on rationalization. Lol. Yea, I was already to teach a course at Harvard next semester, but I was just informed by the Dean they wanted to go with some guy named Rutgers. They said he is smarter than everyone else. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcJet Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 All this weird science is a red herring. It's as simple as someone on the sideline, sticks a pin in the balls and counts to 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 All this weird science is a red herring. It's as simple as someone on the sideline, sticks a pin in the balls and counts to 10. So who did that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Exactly, this is just another example of BB gaining another competitive advantage with great coaching. The funny thing is, all 31 other teams could have done the same thing. Obviously, they weren't smart enough to do so. So at first, nothing was done to the balls. Then, if something had been done, it certainly wouldn't have been intentional. Now, it's something definitely was done, but it was BB's genius that allowed it to be legal? I don't understand the necessity of Patriots' fans who need to have your team be both great and always on the straight and narrow. Is it that hard to admit your team is great, but cuts some corners and has done some shady sh*t? I mean jesus, the amount of mental acrobatics you guys go to try to have everyone love your team is dizzying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcJet Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Doesn't matter. Someone did = cheating = punishment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Bill Nye laying the smackdown on Belicheat: http://time.com/3681707/bill-nye-science-guy-deflategate/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 So at first, nothing was done to the balls. Then, if something had been done, it certainly wouldn't have been intentional. Now, it's something definitely was done, but it was BB's genius that allowed it to be legal? I don't understand the necessity of Patriots' fans who need to have your team be both great and always on the straight and narrow. Is it that hard to admit your team is great, but cuts some corners and has done some shady sh*t? I mean jesus, the amount of mental acrobatics you guys go to try to have everyone love your team is dizzying. Let me save you the time, it's because he's an a$$hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadienJetsFan Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 BB did not lie on the podium. At the time, he did not know everything regarding the false charges. He did his due diligence and researched the physics involved regarding these bogus accusations. He clarified his earlier comments when he did not have all the information. This proves, once again, he is neither a liar nor cheater. You keep defending your fearless leader. Scuzi Guido, the horses have left the barn. You can continue to defend him all you want, but his legacy has been tainted forever. You simply don't want to understand that most NFL fans don't trust him? When spygate was brought up at yesterday's presser, he defended himself by saying that all he did was to tape something that 80000 people in the stadium were witness to as well. Does this mean that he was fined by the NFL in error? Hmmm... Here's what Goodell wrote after fining the guy:"This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid long-standing rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field," Goodell said in a letter to the Patriots. Not acknowledging that his past (spygate) is affecting what people think about deflategate is simply incomprehensible. Deflategate, ineligible/eligible receivers all stem from spygate, plain and simple. All he needed to say about spygate yesterday was to first acknowledge the acceptance of being fined, and afterwards emphasize that since then, he has worked doubly hard to say onside with the rules of the game. But he didn't. His denial to breaking the rules just leads to more scrutiny and feeling of deception by fans of the NFL. Look, It's not a Jet-jealousy thing. Rather, it has everything to do with the Patriots "gamesmanship" antics. A team that's so good doesn't need to stoop so low. You guys can will Sunday's game...as a non Patriot fan, it doesn't change my life and most others as well for we will never be convinced that Bellicheck is doing things honestly. Plain and simple most fans of the NFL don't trust him. His legacy is tainted, like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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