No Restructure For Harvin

[56mehl56]

Dosent sound like it, it's seems he want to get paid, he wants to test the open market no matter what the circumstances is.

Once again he can't test the open market UNLESS the Jets cut him, he's under contract for 10.5m/yr.  The real question is do the Jets want to continue to pay him this amount or cut him with the only penalty now being a 6th rd pick.

[bitonti]

So for example you're against swapping Harvin for Cooper? 

 

I think you'll be in the smallest of minorities there.  

 

I am against that, yes. If they add Cooper, by the time he's ready for prime time maybe Decker and Harvin are gone. Rookie WR aren't usually ODB jr. 

[JetBlue]

After listening to the podcast, I am of the mind that we should resign Harvin and also bring in Spiller.  Then focus on CB/OL/LB/QB in that order in terms of the money we are allocating.  Why is qb last? Because there is no one worthy of much more than $2 or $3 million a year. 

 

If Cooper is gone, Draft Fowler or Dupree and bpa in second round (hoping for receiver - Sammie Coates, Devin Smith, etc.)

[sirlancemehlot]

Dude, it's a tweet from a guy who's about as reliable as a Toyota. My guess would be Harvin doesn't re-do his deal either, that's not exactly shocking. Why would he, makes no sense. He can get a new, decent deal somewhere else with a big signing bonus and a better QB situation.

I'll have you know that 1970's era Toyota pickup trucks are the preferred vehicles of the African Militias and South American bush guides.  You don't get that kind of loyalty by being flimsy.  No, sir.

[greenwave81]

I agree with all of you above I just posted the obvious, why should he?

To get GUARANTEED money...more than he would make playing under his present deal which is essentially a perpetual series of 1 yr deals at this point.

 

Harvin's gonna get paid, but not as much as he thinks he is...he'll be going on his 4th team in 6 yrs, he rarely plays a full season and doesn't have a sterling rep at this point.

[Freemanm]

He's a glorified KR/RB and would become Santonio Holmes version 2.0 in the locker room. Not worth the money, especially when there are good receivers in the draft

[HOZ THE JET]

i bump this because in reality we really need Harvin weather yall agree with me or not,we need to add talent not lose..

[Sperm Edwards]

Yeah, I guess my point is that if they do wind up with Cooper then it's not a disaster. He gets an easy rookie year and the Jets can free up some space with the position in 2015. Truth be told I think this is a good problem to have, even if the Jets are overspending, we can afford to do that for the next couple years.

However there is also the possibility that Harvin acted like a choir boy so he can get his money, and he goes Santonio if he stays, in which case we're ****ed. Given our luck this is probably the case anyways.

Your later point is my primary concern. If rather overpay him a bit on a year to year arrangement, where he has to at least be a choir boy until September every year, than lock us into this one for multiple years.

[LAD_Brooklyn]

I think Harvin would be sick in an offense with Mariota. Mariota under the gun, Spiller at RB with Harvin in the slot with Amaro on the other side. I like Cobb, my only problem is the bidding war to get him. His contract is going to aquire so much gurantee especially with a team like the Raiders in the mix. However $10 mil is overpaying and if we come to the point we skme how need more $ then he has to go so you can fill that other hole. Also Im surprise to know Harvin is only 26.

[HOZ THE JET]

He's the best WR on the market top 3 Bryant Thomas Harvin pay the man 

I agree with you but I wonder why he doesn't want to restructure & help the team out with the salary cap situation.

[bitonti]

I agree with you but I wonder why he doesn't want to restructure & help the team out with the salary cap situation.

The Jets are way under the floor. More cap space doesn't help them. They actually need to get rid of the space, or face fines/loss of draft picks. 

[HOZ THE JET]

The Jets are way under the floor. More cap space doesn't help them. They actually need to get rid of the space, or face fines/loss of draft picks. 

True indeed but we have a bunch of holes in the most expensive spots Oline,CB,WR,LB every little inch of the cap helps he can really do the team a service.

[Sperm Edwards]

The Jets are way under the floor. More cap space doesn't help them. They actually need to get rid of the space, or face fines/loss of draft picks. 

 

This is false. 

[Ex-Rex]

A little misleading. LaCanfora tweeted that Harvin's camp is unlikely to renegotiate and that--oh, by the way--the Pats have always liked Harvin. Typical agent-fed trash.

The Pats can have him. They must have LOVED him the day he continuously tried to return kickoffs none yards deep in the EZ against them. BB must have thought "I gotta get this guy". Yeah, right.

[bitonti]

This is false.

 

The key going forward is the floor more than the cap. The final eight years of the CBA are broken into four-year periods (2013-'16, 2017-'20) during which teams are required to spend up to 89 percent of the cap, with a guaranteed league-wide spend of 95 percent. If the individual clubs or league fail to hit those thresholds, the league/clubs pay the difference to the players.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000331237/article/salary-cap-rise-to-133-million-shows-how-new-cba-is-working

 

the difference would be paid directly to the NFLPA

 

admit they won't lose draft picks but seems like a fine to me 

[Sperm Edwards]

The key going forward is the floor more than the cap. The final eight years of the CBA are broken into four-year periods (2013-'16, 2017-'20) during which teams are required to spend up to 89 percent of the cap, with a guaranteed league-wide spend of 95 percent. If the individual clubs or league fail to hit those thresholds, the league/clubs pay the difference to the players.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000331237/article/salary-cap-rise-to-133-million-shows-how-new-cba-is-working

 

seems like a fine to me 

 

No it is not a fine. And where do you get the idea of lost draft picks.

 

When the league fines a team the money goes to charity. Everyone knows this.

 

This is a pay raise to past players on those rosters. But c'mon you were clearly as aware of this as you were about docking draft picks, which is equally untrue (not to mention baseless and purposeless, since it doesn't help the players who were collectively "stiffed" by a non-spending team).

 

Everything from your post after "The Jets are way under the floor," is false.

[HOZ THE JET]

The key going forward is the floor more than the cap. The final eight years of the CBA are broken into four-year periods (2013-'16, 2017-'20) during which teams are required to spend up to 89 percent of the cap, with a guaranteed league-wide spend of 95 percent. If the individual clubs or league fail to hit those thresholds, the league/clubs pay the difference to the players.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000331237/article/salary-cap-rise-to-133-million-shows-how-new-cba-is-working

 

seems like a fine to me Oh I see, I agree that teams should be fine for being cheap & not wanting to compete, thanks for the info.

[bitonti]

No it is not a fine. And where do you get the idea of lost draft picks.

 

When the league fines a team the money goes to charity. Everyone knows this.

 

I was wrong about the draft picks but the money goes to the NFLPA who dispenses as they seem fit

 

Bottom line that money is being spent either way. They HAVE to spend that money, or it will be taken, in the form of a fine.

[smaxor5]

I was wrong about the draft picks but the money goes to the NFLPA who dispenses as they seem fit

 

Bottom line that money is being spent either way. They HAVE to spend that money, or it will be taken, in the form of a fine.

Common misconception:  The salary cap and the salary floor are actually unrelated.  You don't need to "give up cap space" or whatever you were saying in order get over the salary floor.  The key is how the contracts administer are structured.  The league only cares about money actually spent THIS year.  So if you sign a guy like Cobb for example and guarantee him $20 million as a signing bonus...that $20 million counts in its entirety  against the salary floor.  It's not directly related to the cap, its directly related to cash outflow for the current league year.

[Sperm Edwards]

I was wrong about the draft picks but the money goes to the NFLPA who dispenses as they seem fit

 

Bottom line that money is being spent either way. They HAVE to spend that money, or it will be taken, in the form of a fine.

 

It is a mandatory payment to its players, not a fine that goes to charity like all NFL fines.

 

The purpose is to make sure players get at least 89% of the cap ceiling and that teams can't circumvent it by merely using up X% of their salary cap, which was easy for teams to get around. So they count it by looking at spending not cap space used up.

 

A league "fine" that goes to charity doesn't accomplish this, and neither does docking teams of any draft picks. What owner, who wants to circumvent the floor, wouldn't sign up for like a $10M fine in exchange for staying $40M under the spending floor over a few year period? And docking draft picks hurts that type of owner even less, since he'd get to keep all of that nonpayment savings.

 

I mean, everything you wrote, other than "The Jets are way under the floor," is just incorrect.

 

On top of the incorrect penalties you imagined, it most definitely does help the team to not spend for the sake of spending on players that aren't worthy of that contract. They can re-sign existing players - or bring in new ones - and heavily frontload those deals if there aren't enough worthy (expensive) FAs to pick up in 1 offseason, as is likely the case anyway. The players get paid and the team reaches the spending floor. Meanwhile the team retains its ability to sign more expensive veterans going forward when the needs arise. No smart team would just "get rid of the space" just to do get rid of it. That's mindless.

 

The only trick with this is you can't do it with players you think are just going to hold out after that initial payout. Or it has to have the type of language in it that Tannenbaum put in the last Revis deal, where holding out effectively extends his deal through the end of his big money playing days at far under what his market value would be.

[Sperm Edwards]

Common misconception:  The salary cap and the salary floor are actually unrelated.  You don't need to "give up cap space" or whatever you were saying in order get over the salary floor.  The key is how the contracts administer are structured.  The league only cares about money actually spent THIS year.  So if you sign a guy like Cobb for example and guarantee him $20 million as a signing bonus...that $20 million counts in its entirety  against the salary floor.  It's not directly related to the cap, its directly related to cash outflow for the current league year.

 

Thank you.

 

Offer Wilkerson a new contract with $30M in signing bonus instead of a $10M bonus plus another $20 in guaranteed future salaries, and the team is mostly there on its way to reaching the floor without bringing in anyone new, and even though they could still be under 89% of the salary cap ceiling.

 

I don't think they'll just do this, but yeah it's possible. 

 

A smart team doesn't just throw unwarranted $ at a player and excuse it by saying, "We were going to lose it anyway!"

[JetBlue]

I still haven't seen anyone post about the potential impact Harvin can have in a Chan Gailey offense.  Draft a receiver in round two or trade out of 6 if possible and take J. Strong.  Strong, Harvin, Decker; even Geno can't **** that up!  Imagine if we take Marriota at 6, and get Devin Smith in the 2nd round.   I don't see Cobb, Thomas or Bryant leaving their teams.  The only other receiver worth signing would be Torrey Smith and who knows if we can sign him.  

[#27TheDominator]

Give him a new contract, and he'll be his merry ole self

 

That is the argument to not restructure him.  As soon as he mouths off, you can cut him.  No cap ramifications.  He wants to keep making $10M he walks the line.

[HOZ THE JET]

I still haven't seen anyone post about the potential impact Harvin can have in a Chan Gailey offense.  Draft a receiver in round two or trade out of 6 if possible and take J. Strong.  Strong, Harvin, Decker; even Geno can't **** that up!  Imagine if we take Marriota at 6, and get Devin Smith in the 2nd round.   I don't see Cobb, Thomas or Bryant leaving their teams.  The only other receiver worth signing would be Torrey Smith and who knows if we can sign him.  

Great point, I was thinking the same thing what can Harvin do in Galley spread offense,i think that system would set him up to succeed I hope him & his agent knows this.

[JetBlue]

Great point, I was thinking the same thing what can Harvin do in Galley spread offense,i think that system would set him up to succeed I hope him & his agent knows this.

I am sure he does but it is about the dollars and you really can't blame him.  NFL teams cut players all the time; I can understand why Harvin would want to get as much as he can when he has the opportunity to do so.  He will not be giving the Jets any home town discount.  

[peebag]

Great point, I was thinking the same thing what can Harvin do in Galley spread offense,i think that system would set him up to succeed I hope him & his agent knows this.

Yea but he'd sure be looking good catching passes from a guy named Brady as opposed to a guy named Geno.

[Sperm Edwards]

That is the argument to not restructure him.  As soon as he mouths off, you can cut him.  No cap ramifications.  He wants to keep making $10M he walks the line.

 

Yup. The assumption being thrown around is that Harvin, with a multi-year guaranteed $7-8M/year deal, will be the same player on and off the field as Harvin with a not-guaranteed $10-11M/year deal.  As things stand now he doesn't get a penny more from the Jets unless he makes the final roster by working all summer long to convince the team he's worth $10.5M to them for this season alone.

[patman]

Yup. The assumption being thrown around is that Harvin, with a multi-year guaranteed $7-8M/year deal, will be the same player on and off the field as Harvin with a not-guaranteed $10-11M/year deal.  As things stand now he doesn't get a penny more from the Jets unless he makes the final roster by working all summer long to convince the team he's worth $10.5M to them for this season alone.

Unless he tweaks a hammy in OTAs and stays out the year, while collecting his 10.5. Then in 2016 the jets can cut  him and he goes where he wants with 18mill of woody's money.

[Sperm Edwards]

Unless he tweaks a hammy in OTAs and stays out the year, while collecting his 10.5. Then in 2016 the jets can cut  him and he goes where he wants with 18mill of woody's money.

 

Yes, that is also a possibility.

 

I take for granted no one seriously worries about a healthy player's upcoming season or two and enters into the discussion "What if he misses this entire upcoming season by getting injured this summer?" Particularly a young (turns 27 in May) player that, while he's had some injuries in the past, has never missed more than a few games in any season due to injury in his 6-year NFL career or 3 year college career before that.

 

If that happens then it happens.

[JetBlue]

I think Harvin would be sick in an offense with Mariota. Mariota under the gun, Spiller at RB with Harvin in the slot with Amaro on the other side. I like Cobb, my only problem is the bidding war to get him. His contract is going to aquire so much gurantee especially with a team like the Raiders in the mix. However $10 mil is overpaying and if we come to the point we skme how need more $ then he has to go so you can fill that other hole. Also Im surprise to know Harvin is only 26.

I seriously doubt Mariota beats out Smith; his first year learning curve is going to be enormous. 

[JetBlue]

Yea but he'd sure be looking good catching passes from a guy named Brady as opposed to a guy named Geno.

So the Pats are going to pay him 10.5 million per year or more?  I seriously doubt it; he would be lucky to get more than $8 million; they still have to sign Revis and McCourty and just won a Super Bowl with the likes of Edelman and Amendola.  

[Sperm Edwards]

I seriously doubt Mariota beats out Smith; his first year learning curve is going to be enormous. 

 

Good chance of that. But then, Smith's 3rd year learning curve won't be insignificant either. 

[JetBlue]

Good chance of that. But then, Smith's 3rd year learning curve won't be insignificant either. 

Yes but I think he will be more comfortable in Chan Gaileys offense which is more similar to what he played at WV.  Granted that will also help Mariota but nothing takes the place of NFL game speed and playing against NFL talent; and Smith has had two years of on the job experience.  Hopefully that will count for something in his continued development.  Best case scenario is we have two capable qbs and trade one of them 2 -3 years from now for a top pick or picks.

[Sperm Edwards]

Yes but I think he will be more comfortable in Chan Gaileys offense which is more similar to what he played at WV.  Granted that will also help Mariota but nothing takes the place of NFL game speed and playing against NFL talent; and Smith has had two years of on the job experience.  Hopefully that will count for something in his continued development.  Best case scenario is we have two capable qbs and trade one of them 2 -3 years from now for a top pick or picks.

 

No doubt. But don't discount that even though so many things are in place that suggest he should be noticeably better in year 3, it's distinctly possible he's the same or even worse.

[flgreen]

That is the argument to not restructure him.  As soon as he mouths off, you can cut him.  No cap ramifications.  He wants to keep making $10M he walks the line.

His receiving yards over the last 3 years is 1177 Yards.   Real good for 1 year.  Not so much for 3.     Not so sure I want the Jets paying $31,500,000 for that kind of production.

 

They could hire a real WR.