Ryan Fitzpatrick: MERGED

[joewilly12]

Fitzpatrick at the NYFD vs NYPD football game yesterday. 

Quarterback Ryan

[cant wait]

44 minutes ago, Warfish said:

 

So do you have the PFF "TWP" stats and overall rankings for Geno in 2013 and 2014, or no?  Lets compare our two most likely options, right?

Thanks but I'd rather chew broken glass than compare those two scrubs. And I'm on record for saying unless mac makes a stupid deal we're better off with fitz than geno for 2016. The point is there is plenty of legitimate criticism to go around, its not a partisan issue because I don't believe either player is the answer

[Rangers9]

28 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

we were in good position until he threw that INT in the EZ,

If your starting Qb puts you in a position to win a game at the end even if the team and him aren't playing well then he's done his job. Notice I didn't say he did a good job. And the same goes for all starting Qbs including franchise Qbs in the NFL. They are not always going to make those plays and the better ones do at a higher percentage rate than the average players. But if you have the ball and some time at the end of a game and are at least you're within one play of winning it again you've done your job. Look if that Db for Buff had slipped and Thompkins had caught the ball end of discussion. This thread probably wouldn't exist and we'd be fighting about something else.that is stupid.  

[nyjunc]

Just now, Rangers9 said:

If your starting Qb puts you in a position to win a game at the end even if the team and him aren't playing well then he's done his job. Notice I didn't say he did a good job. And the same goes for all starting Qbs including franchise Qbs in the NFL. They are not always going to make those plays and the better ones do at a higher percentage rate than the average players. But if you have the ball and some time at the end of a game and are at least you're within one play of winning it again you've done your job. Look if that Db for Buff had slipped and Thompkins had caught the ball end of discussion. This thread probably wouldn't exist and we'd be fighting about something else.that is stupid.  

except for the small fact that he DIDN'T put us in position to win, he helped prevent us from winning.

you keep going back to that one in a million potential catch at the end of the game.  if we need a one in a million play to win then did we ever really have a chance?

[Rangers9]

11 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

except for the small fact that he DIDN'T put us in position to win, he helped prevent us from winning.

you keep going back to that one in a million potential catch at the end of the game.  if we need a one in a million play to win then did we ever really have a chance?

There's no one in a million. We had the ball with some time. You're in a position to start a drive and score. The odds are against you but not 1 in a million. Even that catch wasn't one in a million. Stranger things have happened. And like I said with just a little luck (the DB falls down, etc) we were in a position to win that game. And why go with Thompkins on the most important play of the year. Even if Marshall was probably double teamed. Of course maybe Thompkins was the second or third option on that play. When you hear coaches talk they will always say: he put us in a position to win the game. It's an important consideration but as usual many Jets fans just want to point the finger of blame. It took 53 to lose that game plus poor coaching. 

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, Rangers9 said:

There's no one in a million. We had the ball with some time. You're in a position to start a drive and score. The odds are against you but not 1 in a million. Even that catch wasn't one in a million. Stranger things have happened. And like I said with just a little luck (the DB falls down, etc) we were in a position to win that game. And why go with Thompkins on the important play of the year. Even if Marshall was probably double teamed. Of course maybe Thompkins was the second or third option on that play. When you hear coaches talk they will always say: he put us in a position to win the game. It's an important consideration but as usual many Jets just want to point the finger of blame. It took 53 to lose that game plus poor coaching. 

um, we had 44 secs on our 18 yard line needing a TD with no time outs left.  technically there was still time left on the clock, the odds of us scoring a TD in that situation were incredibly against us.

Fitz put us in a position to lose the game which we did.  was it all his fault? of course not but he was a major culprit.

[Rangers9]

5 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

um, we had 44 secs on our 18 yard line needing a TD with no time outs left.  technically there was still time left on the clock, the odds of us scoring a TD in that situation were incredibly against us.

Fitz put us in a position to lose the game which we did.  was it all his fault? of course not but he was a major culprit.

Not one in a million and not incredible. This is when a team's adrenaline flows. I've seen comebacks like that in many sports. Guys make plays, gigantic plays. Sure Fitz threw some picks but again with 44 on the clock we were still seriously in that game. I'm not going to lambast our team for that. 

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Not one in a million and not incredible. This is when a team's adrenaline flows. I've seen comebacks like that in many sports. Guys make plays, gigantic plays. Sure Fitz threw some picks but again with 44 on the clock we were still seriously in that game. I'm not going to lambast our team for that. 

you can't say we were seriously in that game down 5 w/ 44 secs left at our 18 w. NO timeouts left.  it would have taken beyond a miracle to win that game against a team we were much better than w/ nothing to play for.

[Rangers9]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

you can't say we were seriously in that game down 5 w/ 44 secs left at our 18 w. NO timeouts left.  it would have taken beyond a miracle to win that game against a team we were much better than w/ nothing to play for.

This is a joke. And you're smart enough to know that 44 seconds is a lot of time. Even without time outs. And one more thing. Not one Jets player to my knowledge blamed this on Fitz. And you know after an important loss many teams will bicker, etc and blame it on the player who screws up the most. And not all picks are the Qbs fault. We don't know what the routes were etc and if someone ran the wrong one, etc. Probably a lot of it was Fitz's fault but it's not something we know for sure. 

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

This is a joke. And you're smart enough to know that 44 seconds is a lot of time. Even without time outs. And one more thing. Not one Jets player to my knowledge blamed this on Fitz. And you know after an important loss many teams will bicker, etc and blame it on the player who screws up the most. And not all picks are the Qbs fault. We don't know what the routes were etc and if someone ran the wrong one, etc. Probably a lot of it was Fitz's fault but it's not something we know for sure. 

44 secs can be an eternity if you have decent FP, need a FG and timeouts.  inside our 20 needing a TD and having no TOs makes it virtually impossible.

Fitz played scared, he didn't show up in our biggest game.  it's not all on him but I guarantee you if he played well that game he'd have been signed by us months ago.

[Rangers9]

4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

44 secs can be an eternity if you have decent FP, need a FG and timeouts.  inside our 20 needing a TD and having no TOs makes it virtually impossible.

Fitz played scared, he didn't show up in our biggest game.  it's not all on him but I guarantee you if he played well that game he'd have been signed by us months ago.

That I agree with. Winning that game would have given him  more money. But then he would have asked for more according to his detractors. 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

You are really confused about this. That a charter is inevitably going to blow individual calls when playing the blame game is just measurement error. It's not a systemic issue absent some particular reason to think otherwise, and you're just throwing words around to make your criticism seem more sophisticated than it really is.

/facepalm

Be assured, if there is one thing I know, it's numbers and data analysis.  The methodology for this "stat" is opaque, we have no idea if it is objective or not, nor who is collecting it and how or their qualifications to do so,  nor is there any reason to believe the PFF stats-intern likely doing the grunt work has a thorough understanding of material causation simply from watching a game replay or jotting down notes while watching the game.  

It's a fictional trash stat, frankly.  It intends to track something that did not happen, but might have in some alternate fantasy world, must involves ome level of bias/non-objectivity if more than one person is perfomring the data gathering, it starts with limited/partial causation information from a visual-only record (no idea what play was called or what the actual called responsibilities were), and then tried to assign blame for the thing that did not happen to someone who did not do the thing that did not happen, but might have.  Maybe.  If you look at with your eyes all squinted.  In the dark.  

It reminds me of many a Government statistic, so many of which as so laughably gathered, so horribly incomplete, and yet taken so seriously by folks it's almost funny.

And if it didn't paint Fitz like a pile of poo, it's a safe bet no one here would be using it either.

I notice, tho, that no one wants to say what Geno's number was in this "stat" in his two years, nor do I recall hearing anyone discussing this "stat" in that era.  

But now, suddenly, it's a more valued metric for QB's than the actual stats (like Passing/Rushing Yards, or TD's, or actual INT's) of what actually happened.  

 

Quote

Since recycling wrong takes from the Sanchez era is apparently a thing now, SMC already had this meltdown when FO started publishing dropped interception numbers.

 

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

we were in good position until he threw that INT in the EZ,

the one in which Brick completely missed his block and put Ryan under big pressure?  Or are we not allowed to criticize Brick's huge mistakes now that he's retired and a candidate for Jets' sainthood?

[nyjunc]

10 minutes ago, Dcat said:

the one in which Brick completely missed his block and put Ryan under big pressure?  Or are we not allowed to criticize Brick's huge mistakes now that he's retired and a candidate for Jets' sainthood?

oh it was Brick's fault

[joewilly12]

 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

/facepalm

Be assured, if there is one thing I know, it's numbers and data analysis.  The methodology for this "stat" is opaque, we have no idea if it is objective or not, nor who is collecting it and how or their qualifications to do so,  nor is there any reason to believe the PFF stats-intern likely doing the grunt work has a thorough understanding of material causation simply from watching a game replay or jotting down notes while watching the game.  

It's a fictional trash stat, frankly.  It intends to track something that did not happen, but might have in some alternate fantasy world, must involves ome level of bias/non-objectivity if more than one person is perfomring the data gathering, it starts with limited/partial causation information from a visual-only record (no idea what play was called or what the actual called responsibilities were), and then tried to assign blame for the thing that did not happen to someone who did not do the thing that did not happen, but might have.  Maybe.  If you look at with your eyes all squinted.  In the dark.  

It reminds me of many a Government statistic, so many of which as so laughably gathered, so horribly incomplete, and yet taken so seriously by folks it's almost funny.

And if it didn't paint Fitz like a pile of poo, it's a safe bet no one here would be using it either.

I notice, tho, that no one wants to say what Geno's number was in this "stat" in his two years, nor do I recall hearing anyone discussing this "stat" in that era.  

But now, suddenly, it's a more valued metric for QB's than the actual stats (like Passing/Rushing Yards, or TD's, or actual INT's) of what actually happened.  

I dunno about more valued. For what it's worth the first FO article said that, for the ten years of numbers they'd charted/made up out of this air, interceptions plus dropped interceptions the prior year explained more of the variation in interceptions the next year than interceptions alone.

Material causation. Good grief.

[jetrider]

6 hours ago, Dcat said:

the one in which Brick completely missed his block and put Ryan under big pressure?  Or are we not allowed to criticize Brick's huge mistakes now that he's retired and a candidate for Jets' sainthood?

Wrong INT. Brick's whiff was the second INT.

[kelly]

Ryan Fitzpatrick has a problem. He has forgotten a rather large fact.

Ryan Fitzpatrick needs to remember he's Ryan Fitzpatrick.

The New York Jets are beginning OTAs, and mandatory minicamp is right around the corner -- yet Fitz and the team still don't have a deal. It's rather unfathomable. And there is only one person to blame.

That's Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Fitzpatrick talked to SiriusXM NFL Radio on Monday from Willie Colon's charity golf outing. The 33-year-old quarterback made it clear that he's playing football next year -- retirement is not an option. And he made it crystal clear that he wants to be back with the Jets.

So, Ryan ... What's the holdup? Sign the deal!

Fitzpatrick and the Jets remain worlds apart on the value of a new contract.Our Ian Rapoport has reported for quite some time that the two parties just donot see eye-to-eye in terms of proper compensation. According to NFL Media reports, the Jets have offered $7 million a season (on a three-year, $21 million deal), while Fitzpatrick is seeking more than double that on a per-year basis. The Jets are in the right here.You don't overpay Ryan Fitzpatrick because Sam Bradford cashed in ($36 million over two years) on Philly needing a veteran starting quarterback. In no universe is Fitzpatrick worth that kind of money. Fitzpatrick is a journeyman, a guy who bounces around and holds the fort until a team inevitably determines it can do better.

OK, to be fair, Fitzpatrick brilliantly seized his opportunity last year after Geno Smith was slugged in the face by a teammate. Fitz helped the Jets win 10 games and personally enjoyed a career year, with nearly 4,000 yards passing and 31 TD passes (a franchise record).

Now, predictably, the quarterback wants to get paid. Unfortunately for him, the Jets' evaluation of his season -- like my own -- goes beyond a few glossy surface numbers.In this "career year," Fitzpatrick completely blew it in a huge spot: Week 17. With the Jets facing a win-and-in situation at Buffalo, the quarterback completed just 16 of his 37 passes and threw three picks ina 22-17 loss. Had the Jets made the playoffs, I think they could've gone to Cincy and beaten theBengals. And who knows? Maybe the defense would've had a shot against Peyton Manning's Broncosin the Divisional Round.Fitz playing his worst in Week 17 is a huge deal. It definitely left a bad taste on the season. And it wasn't the only disconcerting effort, either. The first game against the Bills -- another 22-17 loss, on Thursday Night Football -- was a total dud for No. 14. And the game Fitzpatrick played against his old Texans team set football back to the stone ages.

Here's another thing going against Fitzpatrick: Apparently, the rest of the NFL agrees with the Jets on the quarterback's ultimate value. His current market as a starting quarterback is ... nonexistent.Cleveland, desperate for a quarterback, picked up Robert Griffin III, who didn't play a down last year. On the veteran front, Denver opted for Mark Sanchez, who turned it over three more times as you were reading this. Philly could've signed Fitzpatrick, but Bradford clearly is more talented (albeit injury-prone). Re-do with the Texans? Bills? Rams? Please. They know the deal. And Fitzpatrick wouldn't be the starter on those teams anyway.In New York last year, Fitzpatrick had Brandon Marshall and Eric Decker -- arguably the top duo in the NFL in 2015 -- at his disposal. The chemistry was incredible. Offensive coordinator Chan Gailey maximized Fitz, just like he did when the pair was together in Buffalo. And this offseason, versatile running back Matt Forte joined the Jets party.

So, what is Fitz waiting for? Hoping for bad reviews of Geno in OTAs? For Christian Hackenberg to look like a rookie? For Bryce Petty to appear overwhelmed again?The Jets don't want to have to go to Plan B. They don't think Geno is the answer. They don't want to rush Hackenberg. They don't want to trade for Josh McCown.The Jets want Fitzpatrick. But they are smart not to overpay, smart not to bust the cap and give in to the demands. I don't think the Jets are playing with fire. How can Fitzpatrick find receivers better than Marshall and Decker and a coaching staff he knows? What other team would actually pay Ryan Fitzpatrick $7 million a year. I don't buy the potential desperation following a QB injury in the coming months.

The educated guess is Fitzpatrick signs with the Jets before training camp in July. But that won't endear him to fans, especially once he throws the first of many interceptions. (Remember, even in his career year, Fitz tossed 15 picks.)Sure, the Jets are better with Fitzpatrick, but they also know that he could turn into a pumpkin, morphing back into the quarterback who hasn't been able to stick anywhere in his 11-year pro career. Truth be told, I'm not convinced the Jets are a playoff team even withFitzpatrick.It's easy to yell and scream about theJets and their quarterbacks through the years. They've earned it. But in this particular case, they've handled the situation the right way.

Now, we all wait for Ryan Fitzpatrick to remember he's Ryan Fitzpatrick.

>      http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000664605/article/ryan-fitzpatrick-needs-to-sign-available-deal-with-new-york-jets

[Dcat]

21 hours ago, nyjunc said:

oh it was Brick's fault

For the record, just watch the play and tell me that Brick's whiff wasn't a huge reason for the INT.  It was a major cause. I didn't say it was the only cause

 

[JPPT1974]

Ryan is hurting the team. whether he thinks about it or not. When he does that, guess what the whole entire team hurts!

[joewilly12]

32 teams in the NFL any one could have signed Fitzpatrick no one did,why us. 

[PatsFanTX]

32 teams in the NFL any one could have signed Fitzpatrick no one did,why us. 

SOJ

[FidelioJet]

32 minutes ago, JPPT1974 said:

Ryan is hurting the team. whether he thinks about it or not. When he does that, guess what the whole entire team hurts!

I don't it matters if he missed OTA's.  

He'll hurt the team because of his limited skill set, barely NFL caliber arm and bad decision making. 

 

[joewilly12]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I don't it matters if he missed OTA's.  

He'll hurt the team because of his limited skill set, barely NFL caliber arm and bad decision making. 

 

Hes an INTERCEPTION MACHINE as far as I'm concerned last 3 Jets possessions of 2015 he was INTERCEPTED. 

[kelly]

"10 reasons Jets won't give in to Ryan Fitzpatrick"..

>      http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2016/05/10_reasons_jets_wont_give_in_to_ryan_fitzpatrick.html#0

[nyjunc]

18 hours ago, Dcat said:

For the record, just watch the play and tell me that Brick's whiff wasn't a huge reason for the INT.  It was a major cause. I didn't say it was the only cause

 

where?

 

[Mike135]

3 minutes ago, kelly said:

"10 reasons Jets won't give in to Ryan Fitzpatrick"..

>      http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2016/05/10_reasons_jets_wont_give_in_to_ryan_fitzpatrick.html#0

These are all very good reasons.

[Colgateman]

I'm hoping the football gods just don't let him sign.

It's Watson time

[Mike135]

OTAs open to reporters today right?  Hopefully some good pics and articles of Geno running shop with the gang.

[Colgateman]

Just now, Mike135 said:

OTAs open to reporters today right?  Hopefully some good pics and articles of Geno running shop with the gang.

Do you think if Geno lights up OTAs, do you think they keep him to see if he beats out Fitz?

[Irish Jet]

Of course we wont cave to his demands. I don't think anyone thinks we will or that we should.

He will be back, and it be on our terms (or very close). People need to stop inventing news that isn't there for the time being. It's not Training Camp yet, he knows the team/system  - There's no major rush on either side. It will be done.

[Warfish]

"Selfishly, I hope they bring him back sooner than later" - Eric Decker, speaking about Fitz

Why would Decker say this?

Doesn't he know that Geno Smith is better, after all, he caught passes from both Geno and Fitz for a year each.

Doesn't he care about winning Super Bowls, or the future?  Doesn't he know Geno has the better upside?  That now that Geno has talent around him he'll be much better?

Doesn't he know that Geno has taken huge steps?

Can someone explain why the guy catching passes from our QB would prefer the worse QB, who can't win, can't get to the playoffs, and has to be carried by his teammates?

Do the Pro-Geno fans know more, and better, than Decker?

[Colgateman]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

"Selfishly, I hope they bring him back sooner than later" - Eric Decker, speaking about Fitz

Why would Decker say this?

Doesn't he know that Geno Smith is better, after all, he caught passes from both Geno and Fitz for a year each.

Doesn't he care about winning Super Bowls, or the future?  Doesn't he know Geno has the better upside?  That now that Geno has talent around him he'll be much better?

Doesn't he know that Geno has taken huge steps?

Can someone explain why the guy catching passes from our QB would prefer the worse QB, who can't win, can't get to the playoffs, and has to be carried by his teammates?

Do the Pro-Geno fans know more, and better, than Decker?

all I know is Decker better not complain about Deshaun Watson.

[Rangers9]

22 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

where?

 

.He should have thrown the ball away because Decker was covered. He seemed to have enough time but it looked like on that clip Brick almost collided with Fitz. 

[Mike135]

7 minutes ago, Colgateman said:

Do you think if Geno lights up OTAs, do you think they keep him to see if he beats out Fitz?

They're keeping him anyways.  I'm hoping they see Geno perform well enough to move on from Fitz.  Or at least not want Fitz to start, and then adjust the offer accordingly.  Say to 4-5mil to serve as backup.

Ideally Petty or Hack show the ability to be the backup and we can just let Fitz walk.