Scouting Report: Christian Hackenberg

[BowlesMovement]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Then I will just donate to you for the cause. 

Ok, when we grab some coffee together you can give it to me, you are so kind

[joewilly12]

7 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

Ok, when we grab some coffee together you can give it to me, you are so kind

Not happening. 

[BowlesMovement]

3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Not happening. 

Why you give it up to Mike135 but play so hard to get with me? 

[flgreen]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Ok lets say they agree on $9 million a year on a 2 year deal where would you come up with the money? 

Not sure what they would do, but here's what I would do.  

Cut Beano, insert Qvale.  Restructure Decker.  He's young enough that you can push some guaranteed money down the road.   Macc will probably still have enough for a cup of coffee.  

[joewilly12]

8 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

Why you give it up to Mike135 but play so hard to get with me? 

False slanderous accusation. 

[BowlesMovement]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

False slanderous accusation. 

Woohh, slow down cowboy

[Mike135]

52 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

Why you give it up to Mike135 but play so hard to get with me? 

Uhhh what? 

[Sperm Edwards]

On 5/5/2016 at 9:20 PM, CrazyCarl40 said:

That's what poor drafting for years does to a team. There is no young, cheap depth so they have to sign bodies in free agency to fill roster spots. 

I'm looking now and I think I had a couple of things wrong/missing up above:

Khiry Robinson was a RFA, so I don't think he counts against compensatory pick totals (the idea being, if NO had given him a higher tender, they'd have recouped a pick for him that way. i.e. another team didn't "steal" him from them). If we only keep him for 1 year and he is signed for more than the veteran minimum next year, he'd count as a UFA lost for compensatory pick calculations.

Other Jets UFAs lose who don't count. Refer to this page: https://www.spotrac.com/blog/nfl-minimum-salaries-for-2016-and-the-veteran-cap-benefit-rule/

1. Antonio Allen was a UFA, but he signed for the veteran minimum. I think he got $800K total but the veteran minimum is $760K salary and not more than $80K in other bonus money. So he does not count as a UFA lost.

2. Same thing with Ridley ($760 base salary with ≤$80K bonuses). He does not count as a UFA loss.

3. Same thing again for Darrin Walls. Same salary+bonus that Ridley got, so he doesn't count as a UFA loss either.

So I don't think we're getting any compensatory picks next year. Not even one. That's partly on Maccagnan, who is effectively trading away draft picks to bring in (or bring back) a couple of backup players. But no doubt it would be less necessary to bring others in if we already had those replacements on the roster. I think it's easier said than done to simply replace the (undrafted) Harrison, who I'm sure the FO/coaches wanted to retain, just because we might have drafted somebody late.

[Pac]

On 5/3/2016 at 9:07 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

Has there ever been a hint of trouble caused by Fitz?  Any rifts with coaches or players?  Has not everyone around him liked playing with him and for him?  Haven't WR's like Kendall Wright, Stevie Johnson, and of course Brandon Marshall had upper level seasons playing with him?  Has he not put his body on the line, setting an example for others?  Has he not always had a positive attitude?  Has he not been hanging out with his teammates the last few weeks even when he remains unsigned by the team?  Does he not always seem to be prepared to do his job, and does so with confidence?

These are signs that he plays the position like a pro.  His W-L record has been discussed ad nauseum.  That isn't something that defines him as a player.  By and large, the guy has done his job over the course of his career.  He lacks the physical talent of elite QB's, and also takes a lot of risks on the field.  These are well defined weaknesses of his.  But you cannot ever deny that he plays like a pro.  That is a ludicrous argument to try to make.

I can't believe anyone bought this nonsense.

[Sperm Edwards]

Re-summarizing:

Total UFAs lost (with my guesses for their compensatory pick value):

1. Harrison (4th)
2. Ivory (likely 4th, but possibly 5th)
3. Davis (6th)

Total UFAs acquired:

1. Forte
2. McLendon
3. Jenkins

Appears none of the rest of the FAs lost or gained count towards the formula (Ridley, Walls, Allen, Khiry). Either they make too little or they were RFAs.

So as things stand right now it looks like we're not getting any compensatory picks next year.

It also likely means that the 2yr/$6M contract offered to UFA Jenkins, who it seems will be our #4 DE/DT this year, will end up costing us a 4th round compensatory pick (and yes, $3M/yr). That's squarely on Maccagnan. We could have just re-signed Douzable. Jenkins may be better, but is he triple the pay plus a 4th round pick more valuable for this year? I'm having trouble saying 'yes' right now. 

Ditto when one considers the cost of bringing back Powell and Henderson. Both of them cost draft picks (4th and 6th rounders) in next year's draft. You can say they were worth it, and maybe they were, but few would like it if the same thing happened in a different form. If we had those 3 extra trade-able compensatory picks already, and we traded away that pair of 4th rounders and a 6th rounder for: a backup DE/DT, to bring back a backup 3rd down RB, and a LB who's going to lose his starting job to our #1 pick this season, a lot of fans' hair would be on fire. 

[Pac]

On 5/3/2016 at 8:53 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

Things young QB's could learn from Fitz:

1) How to play the position like a professional.

2) How to run when needed and pick up first downs as a result.

3) The level of toughness needed for the position.

4) How to lead a huddle and make your teammates believe in you.

Maybe you're on to something.  When I look at the incredible success that Fitz' understudies have enjoyed I'm blown away.

I mean who wouldn't give their right arm to have Jordan Palmer, Trent Edwards, Tyler Thigpen, Jake Locker, Case Keenum, or Ryan Mallet on this team.  All that professional excellence they've enjoyed simply by being around the Ryan.

[win4ever]

Just start Geno because:

1.  We need all the money we can get.  The upgrade from Geno to Fitz on the field is just not worth it.  

2.  If we are so desperate for someone to teach QBs, hire another QBs coach, so we don't have to sacrifice cap space so the young QBs can learn. 

3.  Fitz has imparted wisdom on a grand total of: 0 quarterbacks in the league.  

4.  What exactly is he going to teach these kids?  Rent, don't buy a house?  

5.  Fitz isn't some whiz on the field that sees the game at a slower speed, and is on the brink of revolutionizing the game.  He's a backup QB that had a great cast, and an easy schedule.  

6.  Veteran presence is over-rated.  

7.  This is a team, not rival gangs in jail.  QBs aren't restricted from hanging out with just QBs.  There are other players on the team they can hang out with if they want to know how to act mature.  

8.  Fitz is being greedy, and the whole league has called him out on it.  

9.  What are they going to learn from him?  Do you envision three years from now, 3rd and 5 on the opponents 30 with the game on the line, and Petty/Hackenberg going to look at their "What would Fitz do?" bracelets for inspiration?  

10.  Most teams carry three QBs.  In the offseason, even more sometimes.  Hence, there are atleast 96 quarterback situations around the league that teams feel more comfortable than paying Fitz's demands.  

[Mike135]

12 minutes ago, win4ever said:

Just start Geno because:

1.  We need all the money we can get.  The upgrade from Geno to Fitz on the field is just not worth it.  

2.  If we are so desperate for someone to teach QBs, hire another QBs coach, so we don't have to sacrifice cap space so the young QBs can learn. 

3.  Fitz has imparted wisdom on a grand total of: 0 quarterbacks in the league.  

4.  What exactly is he going to teach these kids?  Rent, don't buy a house?  

5.  Fitz isn't some whiz on the field that sees the game at a slower speed, and is on the brink of revolutionizing the game.  He's a backup QB that had a great cast, and an easy schedule.  

6.  Veteran presence is over-rated.  

7.  This is a team, not rival gangs in jail.  QBs aren't restricted from hanging out with just QBs.  There are other players on the team they can hang out with if they want to know how to act mature.  

8.  Fitz is being greedy, and the whole league has called him out on it.  

9.  What are they going to learn from him?  Do you envision three years from now, 3rd and 5 on the opponents 30 with the game on the line, and Petty/Hackenberg going to look at their "What would Fitz do?" bracelets for inspiration?  

10.  Most teams carry three QBs.  In the offseason, even more sometimes.  Hence, there are atleast 96 quarterback situations around the league that teams feel more comfortable than paying Fitz's demands.  

#4 was pretty good.

[JetNation]

The Jets selected Christian Hackenberg with the 51st pick in the 2016 draft, receiving much disdain from experts and fans alike.   Only Pete Prisco from CBS gave the Jets a great grade for the pick.  USA Today chimed in with a grade of B for the pick, while Pro Football Focus absolutely trashed the pick.   The gifs are from video compiled by Draft Breakdown.  So how did the Jets do with the pick?  Let’s examine Christian Hackenberg:

Pro:

1)

The first play to review here (from his freshman year) is a play action roll out to his right.  There a couple of things to notice on this play.  For one, he sells the running play well, and does a good job of rolling out to the right.  This may seem like a small process, but it’s one of the things that set apart good QBs from great ones, the ability to sell a fake.  The second aspect is the throw on the run, and it is put exactly where it needs to go.  It hits the TE in stride allowing him to run after the catch.  Also, notice the other options on this play, there are three players on the same side of the field.  The outside WR is running a clear out route, while two WRs run out routes, with the TE running a deeper out route across the field.  It’s hard to see without the All-22 tape, but this is a very familiar concept in Chan Gailey’s offense.  There were plenty of times where the QB is presented with the opportunity to have two similar routes at varying depths to pick from for a throw on the run.   If both players are well covered, there is room to run for some yardage.   The play set up on this is exquisite for it’s simplicity for a QB to read on the run, because no one looks good looking side to side while running.  The focus on this play is to read the deeper TE, if covered, move down to the underneath WR, and if that’s not available, then run with the ball.   Hackenberg executes it perfectly here, and it results in a TD.

2)

This play is here mainly for the anticipation of his throw.  If you look closely, Hackenberg starts his throwing motion while his receiver was just starting his spin.  The spin move with a slower receiver (it looks like a TE lined up wide) only creates a small window before the line backer can recover.  However, by anticipating the throw, the QB takes advantage of the small window and gets a first down.   This is a good example of how a QB can throw a receiver open.  Also, notice the other WRs on the play, and their positioning.  Hackenberg is looking up the middle on this play, but there is a crossing route behind his first target.  If for some reason, the first receiver is covered, he doesn’t have to move his eyes too far to find the secondary option on the deeper crossing route.  This eliminates some of the time used to find the secondary option, and another example of how the system can help a young QB.  The only bad aspect of this play is that Hackenberg does not step up into his throw, but has more than enough arm power to zip the ball in there.

3)

This is a play that has been dissected on the internet already, about how Hackenberg is controlling the safety with his eyes.  The read on this play is the short out route, and then two routes that are crossing each other.  If the linebacker doesn’t get in the way, this read is to Allen Robinson, but the linebacker essentially double teams him, thus the play goes to the WR behind him.  This is another example of play set up, where the QB doesn’t have to look around much, both guys cross each other at varying vertical distances, therefore moving from Read 1 to Read 2 is not complicated.  Hackenberg does better with his foot set up, but still does not step up properly on the throw.  His hips are more open than they should be, but his arm talent is good enough to make a throw that many QBs might not attempt.  He is on the far hash mark, throwing across the field, over defenders, right into the arms of the WR.  This is a quality NFL throw that he accomplishes as a freshman in college.

4)

This play is a very similar set up of the first play on this list, but from a different angle.  There are three options on this play, with the outside WR running a clear out route.  The short option is the TE running an out route, the other option is Allen Robinson running an out route, and the third option is a WR running a crossing route in the middle.  The pressure from the DE probably forces Hackenberg to throw to ball faster than he anticipated, but this is a great throw on the run, that is sage, because no one else but Robinson has a play on this pass.  At risk of sounding like a broken record, notice how well this play is set up, and very reminiscent of the Gailey system last year.  The QB is given three options on this play, but the read guideline on this play is easier than it looks.  If Hackenberg looks at Robinson first, he can see the TE in his line of vision as well, giving him two reads at the same time.  This is another great throw, and it illustrates his ability to throw on the run.

5)

This is another example of Hackenberg going to his right and throwing with accuracy and very good ball placement.  This throw is impressive because he’s moving to the right and throwing on the run, throwing the ball as the WR is the middle of his turn.  This shows good anticipation, as well as ball placement on the throw.

6)

This one is from his sophomore season, and notice the instant pressure in his face.  He steps up in the pocket, and makes a nice throw for the first down.  He gets hits as he makes the throw.  Hackenberg does do a good job of stepping up in the pocket to make throw.  However, watch the offensive line on this play, especially the right side.  The Michigan State team runs a stunt on the offensive line, and three guys were committed to blocking two guys, and they end up blocking absolutely no one.  The RG went to the school of blocking by Brian Winters, because he didn’t block anyone on this play, while the running back did nothing as well.  To make matters worse, the DE blew right past the RT to put pressure on Hackenberg anyway.  This is an absolutely horrible show of blocking by the line (and it won’t be the last) but Hackenberg steps up in the pocket and makes a nice throw here.

7)

This play is something that is very reminiscent of Tom Brady, and even Ryan Fitzpatrick from years past.  These 3 and very short situations are critical, and having a QB that can succeed with short scrambles like this really weakens the defense because they have to go all out to stop it.  This ofcourse opens up the possibility of bigger plays if they go for a different run or pass here.  The scramble is hard to defend because the linebackers on this play have nothing to do, and are useless to the play.  If this is on the scouting tape enough time, then the linebackers will also move up to take part in the play, at which point they can audible to other plays from under center.

8)  

Following up on the last play, this is another 3rd and 1 play, where the defense jumps off-sides.  It’s a hard count by Hackenberg, and there are three players that flinch during this play, with the last one jumping off sides.  This is a result of the last play being on tape, because if you are good at QB sneaks, the defense is under pressure to get a jump on the snap, leaving them vulnerable to the hard count.  This is the sort of thing you rarely see from shotgun oriented offenses, and shows a small example of the advanced mental game of Hackenberg.

9)  

The play shows off some mobility from Hackenberg.  He’s not going to remind anyone of Robert Griffin, but he can move around some.  This is a clip of him rolling to the left, and running for first down yardage (In the game, I believe this was called back for a penalty somewhere) and then absolutely destroying the CB.  However, this is a bit of a concern for me, because it would have been better if he would have slid down at the end.   Also, watch No. 72 (the RG) on this play, he completely whiffs on the block again, and this is a reoccurring theme when you watch the tapes.

10)  

This is an absolute gem of a throw, in the face of pressure.  Once again, notice the RG ending up blocking air for the most part by the end of the play.  Hackenberg steps up in the pocket and throws the ball while getting hit, but puts the ball on the money on the other side of the field.  When talking about issues with coaching and offensive set up, notice the options on this play.  Hackenberg has one read, then has to look back half the field before his next read even comes into play.  The more pro-set up, part of which we saw Gailey run last season, is much more QB friendly.  If the outside WR is covered on this play, Hackenberg doesn’t have enough time for a second read because of the horrible offensive line.  This was part of the problem with James Franklin where there were very little QB friendly calls where you could make multiple reads in quick amount of times.  One of the biggest reasons why the Jets cut down on sacks last year was because these route combinations made it much easier for the QB to go through the progressions, lowering the time needed to scan the field.

11)  

This play is a rare clean pocket for Hackenberg, and he steps up in the pocket and makes a great throw down the field.  The ball is placed perfectly and ends up in a TD.  Notice where Hackenberg’s head is when he is in the drop back.  He’s looking directly at the safety going back, freezing the guy because there is a player running a deep crossing pattern as well.  This is essentially holding the defense with your eyes, and prevents the safety from coming over the top on the deep route and takes him out of the play.   At the same time notice the DE blow right by the RT on this play as well, but Hackenberg is saved by moving up in the pocket.  When it comes down to it, this is one of the cleaner pockets he’s afforded in the last two years, and he makes a great throw.

12)

This play is actually a failure, but is in here because of the thought process rather than what happened on the field.  As you can see, the Eagles have too many men on the field, and one player is running off the field.  Hackenberg tries to snap the ball quick to get the penalty, something players like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning do on a consistent basis to get free yards.  The Jets on the other hand, wait for the player to get off the field and call his mother to tell her that he made it to the sideline safely, before snapping the ball.  They leave free yards on the field all the time, when they could get yards with a quick snap.  I love Hackenberg recognizing the situation, and trying to snap the ball early.  The throw is bad, as again Hackenberg does not step into the pass, causing his hips to be open.  Being a former pitcher, you would think Hackenberg would have better hip rotation skills, but he consistently throws his hips open on throws to his left.

In the Pro section of this scouting report, Hackenberg definitely showed a ton of promise, as well as some concerning issues.  The next part of this scouting report deals with the con section.  Please check in with the article to read further on Hackenberg.

Click here to read the full story...

[JetNation]

The second part of the the series, deals the downside of Christian Hackenberg, and some of the issues he’s demonstrated over the years.

Con:  

1)

This play is from his freshman year again, and he shows a trigger that’s too quick for the play.  This is a 3rd down play, and should be an easy throw.  However, Hackenberg rushes the throw and puts the pass on the back shoulder of the TE, making it a much tougher pass to catch.  This should have been an easy catch and conversion, instead it is an incomplete pass that brings on the punting unit.   However, also notice the play call here and where the receivers cross here, right in the line of Hackenberg’s sight.  He’s reading the linebacker on this play to find his open receiver, but rushes the throw and makes a bad pass.  Hackenberg also fails to set his feet on this throw, jumping without need, and throwing out his accuracy.

2)

This pass is a completion that goes for positive yards, but a bad screen pass.  Allen Robinson has to jump to catch the ball, allowing the defense to recover and tackle him after a short gain.   If the ball is placed lower to Robinson, there is a good chance that he runs for more yards before being tackled.  Notice how Hackenberg’s hips are open again before he makes the throw, causing the ball to sail.  His footwork needs work when it comes to these throws, his foot is getting ahead of the rest of the body.   It’s very similar to the issues Dellin Betances faced as a starter for the Yankees.  He couldn’t consistently get his delivery to match up where his foot and body lined up, leading to bad control.  The other aspect of the play is actually positive in that, notice the mirror aspect of this play call.  There is a WR bubble screen set up on both sides of the line, allowing the QB to look at where the match-ups favor the team, and then pick that side.  There is a ton of examples where the Jets ran the same concept last year, where both sides of receivers mirrored each other so Fitzpatrick could decide at the line where the weakness in the match-up was for the defense.

3)

This is an absolutely horrible throw, Hackenberg has a relatively clean pocket and Allen Robinson wide open down the field, but flat out misses the throw.  He under-throws Robinson by a fair margin and turns a surefire TD into an incomplete pass.   This is a good play call with options open under neath, but Hackenberg makes the right read on this play, however, execution was horrible.  The only possible excuse would be that it started to rain right around this time in the game, which may lead some credence to issues with the weather.  He has relatively small hands for a QB, which could become an issue in bad weather games, as this looks like a case of him not getting the grip on the ball.

4)

This is probably Christian Hackenberg’s kryptonite:  The screen pass.  Hackenberg consistently has trouble with the screen pass, as if he’s not sure what to do in this case.  Mark Sanchez was bad at screen passes with the Jets, but Hackenberg is beyond brutal consistently.  Infact, this play is one of the few good screen passes that Hackenberg threw in his career, and this in itself is a bad pass.  Hackenberg is about to get hit, but he puts the ball at the feet of his RB, causing him to stop running before starting to run again.  While the RB may not have gotten a first down with a good pass, it would have been a much better option for them to convert.  This is actually one of the few screen passes that Hackenberg throws overhand, as he has a very bad tendency to side arm screen passes.  The next year, RB No. 1, the guy that caught this pass, is wide open in a game against Northwestern, and Hackenberg misses him short, and he absolutely rips in the QB.  Infact, they were at words on the sideline, but they did work together on the next drive.

5)

This a very good play set up and good protection.  The pocket is clean, and the WR runs a nice route to be absolutely open.  The good aspect of the play is the set up, as you will notice the mirror aspect of this play (this is his freshman year) which means the main read is the middle of the field.  The read on this play is the safety, as Hackenberg holds him in the middle by looking right at him when he’s dropping back.  Once the CB drops into zone coverage, they have a perfect pocket in the zone, and Hackenberg steps up into the throw, and then just flat out misses him.  This is a throw that every QB in the league needs to hit, because receivers are rarely this open for large gains.  Everything went perfectly for this play, except the pass execution.

6)

Another deep pass that absolutely misses the throw for a wide open receiver.  Allen Robinson ran a high amount of double move pass routes while at PSU, and he gets open on a similar route here, but Hackenberg just flat out misses this throw.  He does everything right in this play, he steps up well, his hips aren’t flying open, but just air-mails the throw.  This is the downside of having big arm QBs sometimes, because they just overthrow passes, similar to say Randy Johnson sailing a pitch to the backstop at times.  Most scouting reports have Hackenberg as loving the deep pass but he is not yet refined on deep passes quite yet.

7)

Back to the James Franklin era, and notice the right guard again.  He’s not blocking anyone at all, yet still in position as if he’s waiting for the headless horsemen to come running upon him.  However, the pocket is relatively clean (there is a guy diving at Hackenberg’s feet) but this is another air mail of the pass.  The WR is open on this play, but Hackenberg just misses him flatly.  On this throw, Hackenberg’s hips flies open causing him to lose control of the pass.  These are some mechanical adjustments he has to make before being a starting QB.

8)

Screen pass:  enter nightmare.  This is a play set up to go for plenty of yards, but Hackenberg absolutely misses the throw.  This is another example of Hackenberg’s hips flying open causing him to be wild with his throws, as his mechanics are not there.  Granted, he’s facing a free runner up the middle and needs to get the ball out fast, but he has to step into this throw a bit, rather than doing a twirl pass.

9)

Next screen pass, next issue.  This play is a disaster waiting to happen on many levels, even though the end result of the play is positive.  There is a free runner coming at Hackenberg again, but this is a pick 6 throw waiting to happen as the DE was right near the throwing lane.  In the NFL, this is at best knocked down, and at worst picked off.  Second, the pick is behind the RB, who makes a nice adjustment to catch the ball and turn up-field.

10)

This is a Geno Smith pass, the LB dropping back in pass coverage picking off a pass and returning it for a TD.  The defense is playing zone coverage and it looks like the WR sits down too close to the next LB in the zone.  Most experienced WRs would have stopped earlier, but that is just a small mistake.  Hackenberg had no right to throw this pass, even a bull rusher pushing his offensive lineman back into his face.  He throws it right to the LB and the rest is history.  The only good aspect from this play for Hackenberg is the hustle he shows in trying to tackle the returned, albeit it ends up futile.   This is also an example of Hackenberg locking in on one WR and staring him down.  Remember from the earlier series about how vertically spaced players allow a QB to make two reads at once?  Well on this play, his second read is open, but he’s on the other side of the formation.  With the rusher bearing down in the pocket, it can be understood why Hackenberg didn’t want to delay further to scan the other side of the field, but he was much better at throwing away this pass.

11)

Another deep pass that is misplaced by Hackenberg, partially due to bad mechanics.  He throws this foot more off of his back foot and sails the pass.  This is a one on one match on the outside, so he does a good job in identifying the one on one match-up but just makes it a horrible throw.  The CB makes a good play on the ball to intercept the pass.

12)

Screen pass disaster again.  This play has a couple of culprits from the looks of it.  The main one if Hackenberg again, as he side arms the screen pass and it again goes low.  The second culprit is what looks like the center, who instead of blocking the linebacker in front of him decides to run into thin air before circling back too late.  Hackenberg absolutely needs to work on his screen game, it’s quite painful to see him perform so badly on a play that is somewhat basic.  He rarely puts any touch on screen passes, and seems to have an affinity for side arming the throws, which almost always end up too low for the receiver.

As you can see the from the examples, Hackenberg is far from perfect and has plenty of flaws in his game that he needs to work on.  Please check out Part 3 of this series (His teammates).

 

Click here to read the full story...

[JetNation]

Please check out Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3 of our scouting report into Christian Hackenberg.

Scouting Summary:

Mental:  Hackenberg displays very good understanding of the game, picks up on small nuances.  He’s shown instances of inducing off-side penalties from the defense with hard counts, and also recognizing when he may have a chance to pick up free yards when players are running off the field.  Most QBs playing in spread offenses do not have this level of recognition, so he is definitely advanced in this aspect of the game.

Field Progression:  In his freshman year, Hackenberg showed good ability to go through progressions.  However, as shown in examples, these progressions were easy read progressions, and not situations where he was sitting in the pocket looking sideline to sideline.  The good news is that, those types of plays are very similar in a Chan Gailey system.  However, his second and third seasons do not provide much evidence of improvement here because the system is completely different.  The system relies on a good offensive line play, which was impossible for them to attain.  In the second and third year, Hackenberg seems to make up his mind on who to throw to by the time the ball is snapped, which might be a result of bad offensive play or a lack of ability to scan from sideline to sideline.

Screen Passes:  This is absolutely the biggest weakness in Hackenberg’s game.  He is terrible at the screen pass, often side arming the ball and showing terrible ball placement.  There were numerous examples of passes being too high or low.  This is one aspect of his game that needs to be broken down and built from the ground-up.  If Jet fans thought Mark Sanchez had problems with screen passes, Hackenberg is ten times worse in this aspect.

Intermediate Passes:  These are really the strength of Hackenberg on film.  These passes utilize his arm strength well, and does not force him to wait for deep routes to open up, a scary proposition given his weak offensive line.  He shows much better ability throwing to his right than his left at times.

Deep Passes:  While he has a very strong arm, it is hard to understand Hackenberg’s ability here because of the weak offensive line.  There are plenty of occasions where he seems to over-throw his receivers when they are wide open.  While he has the ability to have an effective vertical game, his consistency is nowhere near elite level, as his arm strength would have you believe.

Mobility:  Hackenberg shows surprisingly respectable mobility outside of the pocket.  He’s not going to win rushing titles, but he can pick up 4 or 5 yards if need be, especially if the defense is playing back.   He reminds me of a Derek Carr in terms of his ability to rush out of the pocket, almost no way they run designed plays for him, but in an emergency he can pick up a few yards.  He also shows an exceptional ability to make throws while rolling out to the right.

Mechanics:  Another area where Hackenberg needs a lot of work.  The main issue seem to be his set up with his hips.  He has his hips fly open at times, making him lose his control.  Once his hips are open, he’s throwing across the body and therefore sacrifices his ability to throw pin point passes.  There are also plenty of times where Hackenberg throws off of his back foot, relying mainly on his arms.  With the sheer amount of times that he has gotten hit, it’s almost a miracle to see him healthy.  However, if you watch some of his throws, he’s spinning away from the play as soon as he throws the pass, in a way to protect himself from the hits he receives.  While this has helped him stay healthy, it has a drastic effect on his accuracy.

Leadership:  He stayed with a sinking ship, which seems to show character.  He could have transferred without penalty, but decided to stick it out.  That kind of commitment can rub off on people and he seems to show decent leadership qualities.  However, his case might be an example of why elite prospects should consider leaving if a similar issue occurs in the future.  The lack of talent around him made it virtually impossible to evaluate the player.

One of the reasons people play the lottery is the availability bias because the human mind is trained to remember the few successes that we’ve heard about, rather than the countless failures we don’t hear about.  Christian Hackenberg is lottery ticket for the Jets.  However, there have been countless others than have had similar ability fail.  His situation is unique, because teams usually have a good two years to scout players, but in this case it’s impossible to tell because of his surrounding talent.  He reminds me a lot of Dellin Betances in the MLB draft a few years ago.  He was a really talented pitcher who fell in the draft because his mechanics were out of whack, along with a commitment to college baseball powerhouse Vanderbilt (James Franklin’s old playing ground).  He dropped to the 8th round, but I believe he got a signing bonus similar to a first round pick.  For years he teased with potential, but never could put it together.  In the end, forced to put him on the 40 man roster, the Yankees moved him to the pen and tried to simplify his delivery, and now he’s become a dominant relief pitcher.  For every Dellin Betances, there are countless Daniel Cabreras, Andrew Brackmans, and Kris Bensons.

Fans have a tendency to be hopeful that they can be pleasantly surprised by a high potential prospect.  Somewhere deep in your hearts lays a feeling that says Hackenberg may come to camp and light it on fire, and solve the Jets problems for years.  However, it’s far more likely that he will need to sit for a whole year and re-work his whole approach.  He needs to work on his mechanics, along with trusting his offensive line again.  There are too many examples of him spinning out of throws, or side arming screen passes that can be solved in one off-season.

Overall, this was a B- pick.  There are chances it can be an A+ pick in two years, or an F.  Hackenberg certainly has the potential, with his mental approach as well arm talent.  When he was a freshman at PSU, many projected him as the next great QB to come along, and a future No. 1 draft pick.  Many made that prediction based on the notion that he would improve on his work in the next two years.  Not only did he not improve, he actually regressed from his freshman year.  The best case scenario for the Jets this season is that with all the work he has done for the draft, he’s back to the freshman level QB he was three years ago.  Then, they can take the next year to make progressions with him that should have already occurred during the last two years.  He has exciting potential, but he also requires patience as far as the tape can tell.  However, the one caveat is that the surrounding cast was so bad, that it’s nearly impossible to tell if he made any progressions, so it would be interesting to see how he does at camp.

Please discuss.

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[Maxman]

Thanks Alvin!

@win4ever

[win4ever]

7 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Thanks Alvin!

@win4ever

Thanks for posting them.  

[win4ever]

52 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

#4 was pretty good.

Thanks, I laughed at that one after typing it, lol.  

[Jet Nut]

15 hours ago, Warfish said:

Don't forget Revis being burned all day long by a bad QB, whist milking his 16 mil contract he never came close to earning last season.

And both our RB's, upon whom the offense relied, being useless and hurt.

This is the part that bothers me, how so many of our Fans simply stick their heads in the sand and ignore the complexity of football, and say (with absolute certainty) "Fitz cost us our whole season".  It's laughable on even a shallow analysis.

Did Fitz play great the last game, absolutely not.  He most certainly did not win the game for us, now would he have been capable of winning the game alone with no help.  He's not and never has been that kind of Franchise QB.

But to ignore the myriad ways in which the entire team failed in that game, from the Coaches on down, and how many other players could have helped win the game if they'd done anything of value, is simply wrong.

I understand the cap argument, it's legitimate.  What I don't understand is the endless desire to play Geno Smith. 

Revis was injured.  Whats Fitz's excuse, he wasnt being paid 16 mil?

One more time, there was plenty of blame to throw around.  Even as you go back and forth between saying just that and the times you blame Revis and how much he earns.  Because 16 mil players dont get hurt?  But the point is, as we keep saying, the game was there for the taking.  14 yards line, 1st down, 2 points down and Fitz responded with a piss poor pass for a game changing INT instead of throwing it away.  

Inexcusable 

[ATX Jetsfan]

Seems pretty accurate. People need to realize he was the 51st pick in the draft. If he turns out to be an "F" its not the end of the world. When you miss on a QB in the first round it can really set a franchise back. 2nd rounders, though valuable, are not as dire. Personally, i dont have a problem with a 6'5 230lb QB with mobility and the best arm in the draft, as well as having experience in an NFL style offense. If he didn't have question marks about his mechanics, and overall performance at Penn St, he would be the 1st overall pick in this draft. Getting a talented kid like this at 51, isnt something to lose sleep over. You have a lot more to gain then lose. Admittedly i am of the mindset, you draft a QB every year until you have one. . 

He is also still just 21. I know his name has been around for years now, but he is very young, and already received a lot of lessons on/off the football field. 

[Irish Jet]

Great breakdown.

He really can't play in Gailey's offence  (Or the NFL) until he gets those screens and short passes sorted out. I think a big part of it is mechanics which seem all over the place but the glimpses are enough to at least offer some hope that it can be fixed.

The notion that he can play this season is utterly laughable though. If he's to stand a chance he needs at least a year of great coaching. I think Fitz would be a great influence too tbh.

[PatsFanTX]

Great breakdown.

He really can't play in Gailey's offence  (Or the NFL) until he gets those screens and short passes sorted out.

Looks like he has the yips on all those short passes.

He'll be the NFL's version of Steve Blass.

[drdetroit]

27 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Looks like he has the yips on all those short passes.

He'll be the NFL's version of Steve Blass.

Hey if he's 1/28th as good as Ryan Mallett I will take it

[drdetroit]

I prefer Fitz but I see him regressing next season and in that case the difference between he and Geno is a wash

[drdetroit]

19 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

fitz thought he had changed the perception of himself around the nfl, when in reality all he did was reinforce his existing one.  he can win you some games, lose you others, throw ints at bad times, and works best in gailey's system.  this combination just isn't worth that much, when so many teams the past few years have drafted qbs to groom and others have good veterans so they don't want to pay fitz.  

The Bradford contract wrecked the negotiations.  The Eagles don't give him that asinine deal we probably already have Fitz locked up at a reasonable 2 year $17 million deal

[drdetroit]

7 hours ago, Pac said:

Maybe you're on to something.  When I look at the incredible success that Fitz' understudies have enjoyed I'm blown away.

I mean who wouldn't give their right arm to have Jordan Palmer, Trent Edwards, Tyler Thigpen, Jake Locker, Case Keenum, or Ryan Mallet on this team.  All that professional excellence they've enjoyed simply by being around the Ryan.

Has nothing to do with Geno.

 

Geno is going to turn the ball over more but he's also going to expand our package on offense since he can actually throw the ball downfield.  

I think Forte will be a tremendous help to Geno as a safety valve. That's why they got him.

[Jetsfan80]

7 hours ago, Pac said:

I can't believe anyone bought this nonsense.

 

7 hours ago, Pac said:

Maybe you're on to something.  When I look at the incredible success that Fitz' understudies have enjoyed I'm blown away.

I mean who wouldn't give their right arm to have Jordan Palmer, Trent Edwards, Tyler Thigpen, Jake Locker, Case Keenum, or Ryan Mallet on this team.  All that professional excellence they've enjoyed simply by being around the Ryan.

Your opinions on QB's are invalid.  You still think Chad Pennington and Mark Sanchez are good.  You've identified with nyjunc's camp.  That's right.  nyjunc. 

[munchmemory]

[Irish Jet]

5 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

 Whats Fitz's excuse

That the entire team played like a bunch of f*cking droolers with the lone exception of Marshall. Fitz was the reason we were even in the game and the reason that the playoffs were on the line to begin with. 

He was too aggressive. We killed Chad for the opposite against Pittsburgh. Jets QB's cannot win. 

Bowles deserves the blame for that game. If a Rex led Jets team had performed like that he'd have been torn to pieces for it.

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, Irish Jet said:

That the entire team played like a bunch of f*cking droolers with the lone exception of Marshall. Fitz was the reason we were even in the game.

He was too aggressive, we killed Chad for the opposite against Pittsburgh. Jets QB's cannot win. 

Bowles deserves the blame for that game. If a Rex led Jets team had performed like that he'd have been torn to pieces for it.

He should have thrown the ball away and lived for 2nd down.  It was not the time to be aggressive.  But we all know that's not what happened.  He has no accuracy, especially when he tries to get a little more on a throw.  

He had to protect the 2 points first, try and get 7.  They weren't down 4 or more, they were down 2.  At the 14.  Protect the friggen ball.  

Please, let's not try to make a hideously bad play into something good. 

[Jetster]

37 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

He should have thrown the ball away and lived for 2nd down.  It was not the time to be aggressive.  But we all know that's not what happened.  He has no accuracy, especially when he tries to get a little more on a throw.  

He had to protect the 2 points first, try and get 7.  They weren't down 4 or more, they were down 2.  At the 14.  Protect the friggen ball.  

Please, let's not try to make a hideously bad play into something good. 

But...but...but...he's a Harvard graduate, and he's only been playing for 10 more seasons than Geno, and it was cold & on the road, and he had an eyelash in his eye, and he never stares down Decker on those seam routes that Rex had now seen on film in this same position like 5 times this year, and he didn't trust checking down to Ivory who was WIDE OPEN in the flat on that play but it was 3rd down...oops it was 1st down, that's right...but maybe in Ryans 12 years in the league no one has told him that you have to protect the ball at that spot down 2 @ the 14.

If Geno Smith did that, Jets fans would never forgive him. And that's a FACT!

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, Jetster said:

But...but...but...he's a Harvard graduate, and he's only been playing for 10 more seasons than Geno, and it was cold & on the road, and he had an eyelash in his eye, and he never stares down Decker on those seam routes that Rex had now seen on film in this same position like 5 times this year, and he didn't trust checking down to Ivory who was WIDE OPEN in the flat on that play but it was 3rd down...oops it was 1st down, that's right...but maybe in Ryans 12 years in the league no one has told him that you have to protect the ball at that spot down 2 @ the 14.

If Geno Smith did that, Jets fans would never forgive him. And that's a FACT!

Geno's pretty much done that in ever game he's played in.

[BowlesMovement]

50 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

He should have thrown the ball away and lived for 2nd down.  It was not the time to be aggressive.  But we all know that's not what happened.  He has no accuracy, especially when he tries to get a little more on a throw.  

He had to protect the 2 points first, try and get 7.  They weren't down 4 or more, they were down 2.  At the 14.  Protect the friggen ball.  

Please, let's not try to make a hideously bad play into something good. 

It was a bad throw, but I blame Gailey as much as I blame him on that play. It was a timing play and the ball was thrown before the receiver or CB broke on the play. They saw something in the film they wanted to exploit, and went to it one too may times. I am not absolving him for it, he did not have a good game, but the entire team played like crap that day, and the officials allowed the Bills Oline to hold and tackle our Dline the entire game with one penalty called. Football is a team game, the entire team played like crap. If the argument is Fitz is not good enough to overcome bad team play, nobody will argue with you, he is not Aaron Rodgers. But everyone wants to ignore his 10 wins, saying it was the team who got the 10 wins, not him, but put all the blame on him when they don't win. Its F'ng stupid lazy ass Jets fans.

The reality is Fitz is able to generate offense with good talent around him, he has plenty of positives, and plenty of negatives, you can do much worse at the QB position, and you can do much better. Hopefully some day we will get much better, but the reality is unless Hackenberg is at least a year ahead of schedule, he is the best option we have. And hoping for Geno to have a light bulb suddenly go on is like asking a frog to be an alligator.

At the end of the day, I really don't care too much about which of the non future QB's starts this year, but its just very old listening to Jets fans sound stupid all the time.

[Villain The Foe]

11 hours ago, flgreen said:

Villian, I know your not a Fitz fan, but you have to admit he plays balls to the wall.  He fires up his team mates and they're ready to go to battle with him.

Yeah he's got a limited skill set, but his attitude, and courage really brings out the best in a lot of the talented players around him.   I like the trade off, not at 16 M, but I'm willing (lol, like it's my money) to over pay him a bit.  If they open the season with smith, these vets aren't going to be happy.  You know their not

Fitz played balls to the wall, basically played the season of his life. He fired up his team mates for the most part and the fanbase, generally, was behind him.

 

However, his attitude, courage and likability has never won a "must win" game. He fires up the team but that team wasnt fired up week 17....a must win game. They werent fired up against the Texans. We like to blame Revis for the Texans game but the Jets couldnt score points....who's in charge of that?

 

People confuse Fitz the person with Fitz the football player. Fitz looks like a guy who would be a blast to go to a bar with and just talk sh*t and have a good time. Fitz the football player is not the guy I want on Thursday night against the Bills, Week 17 against the Bills, an AFC match against his old team in the Texans, any football team that can put up points. He's not a starter, but the guy can fire up a team no doubt.