In defense of Woody Johnson.

[Villain The Foe]

This probably wont be popular, but it is true. 

 

I've been reading alot of comments in regards to Woody Johnson's incompetence when it comes to hiring GM's and HC's. Many Jets fans have blamed Woody for the outcome of this season, some even stating that it seems like he was meddling in the affairs of the GM when it came to resigning guys like Darrelle Revis and as of last season Ryan Fitzpatrick. Some fans have stated that if Woody doesnt fire Todd Bowles and/or Mike Maccagnan, then Woody doesnt have the balls to get this team going in the right direction. 

 

These comments imo are exactly why Owners/GM's shouldnt listen to the fanbase when making decisions whether popular/unpopular. At the end of the 2014/15 season, as soon as week 17 was done Woody Johnson fired John Idzik and Rex Ryan...something that the overwhelming majority of Jets fans wanted. Fans went as far as creating towels, buying billboards, creating websites, renting planes etc., in order to get the message to Woody that the fanbase wasnt happy with the 6 years of Rex and 2 years of Idzik. Jets fans requested that since Woody Johnson wasnt a "Football guy" that he'd hire some football guys to help him in hiring his next GM/HC. This is exactly what Woody Johnson did. In January 2015 Woody hired Charley Casserly and Ron Wolf as consultants because they were "football guys", guys who together have had success managing teams...being as successful as winning championships and being inducted into the NFL Football HOF (Ron Wolf). 

 

Jets fans responded immediately with acceptance and excitement while praising Woody Johnson for putting his ego to the side and allowing people who have the understanding of football and football operations help find the proper GM and HC to put this team on the right track. 

 

In comes Mike Maccagnan, a guy who has history with Charley Casserly back in Houston when working for the Texans. Not only is Macc coming in as a GM, but his background is as a scout, which is something that Jets fans were extremely excited about given the history of the prior GM's and their lack of recognizing talent. A few hours after the Macc hire as GM, Todd Bowles is announced as the HC of the NY Jets after Woody, Macc, Charley and Ron stop Bowles from boarding a plane to head down to Atlanta to interview for that vacancy. 

Once again Jets fans are excited, stating that though Dan Quinn was a popular name/option, the Jets couldnt continue to wait on him given that the Seahawks were still in playoff mode while not knowing for sure if he would even take the job or possibly land in Atlanta with the Falcons or Denver. Once Jets fans were reminded that Todd Bowles was a local guy, coming from NJ, attended Temple, was co-signed by Bill Parcells for being one of his coach understudies while with the Jets under Parcells tutelage as well as winning a championship with the Redskins & also being co-signed by Bruce Arians...one of the most beloved coaches in the NFL by fans that are NOT cardinal fans, Jets fans were in heaven and was once again singing all of the Woody Johnson praises that they could. We heard everything from "Woody Johnson finally gets it" to "The Jets may finally win a superbowl". Todd Bowles makes his first splash by hiring an "oldie but goodie" coach in Chan Gailey. A guy who was mediocre as a HC but always found success as an OC getting the most out of below average to mediocre QB's and finding success. Jets fans loved the move because many Fans felt like Idzik drafted a QB in Geno smith during the time he depleted all of the resources surrounding him, along with the fact that we didnt have any coaches on the team that was deemed competent to develop a young QB. Chan Gailey had a proven track record along with an offense that will stretch a defense horizontally but will also attack vertically if need be. Jets fans were pleased with what was going on...and Woody Johnson quickly seen the billboards come down, the planes stop flying over practices and the websites lose traffic. 

And then "it" happened, Mike Maccagnan turns the Jets world upside down by winning the rights to bring Darrelle Revis back home but also he trades for Brandon Marshall, a top 5/top 10 #1 WR in the league for of all things....a 5th round pick, while also gaining a 7th round pick. Once again Woody Johnson is looked at by Jets fans as a guy who listened to the fans, bought in some "Football guys" and the decision is already paying dividends. 

A day or two later Maccagnan strikes again, coming to terms on a deal to get Ryan Fitzpatrick from the Texans in a trade. This wasnt a blockbuster deal and there were some Jets fans (like myself) who didnt like the pick up, but many jets fans looked at the move as "security blanket" and a guy who had a relationship with Macc out in Texas along with being his most productive as a QB under the Jets current OC Chan Gailey. Jets fans were now feeling like they were on top of the world. They watched as Woody Johnson literally fired everyone a day after week 17 ended, watched as he signed "football guys" to get the ship back on track, watched as they signed a GM with scouting experience, watched as they then signed a HC that was a local guy and was co-signed by two of the most beloved coaches of today (Bruce) and yesteryear (Parcells), watched as we traded crumbs for a legit #1 WR in order to then put Decker back to his natural position which then gave us a legit #2 WR, watched as we picked up Fitz as a security blanket, watched as we bought Revis back "home", watched as we resigned Cro and we had the tandem back, watched as we plucked Gilcrhist and Skrine from FA....AND THEN we watched as Mike Maccagnan didnt trade out of a position but instead drafted not for need and "reaching" but for "Best player available" and drafted arguably the best player in the draft in Leo "Big Cat" Williams (Even though we had Sheldon, Mo, Snacks). Jets fans where again on top of the f'ing world of sports...and Jets fans made sure to make Woody Johnson the centerpiece of their excitement given that he did what the fans requested. 

 

 

Then we jump 1 and a half seasons later to today, and people are saying that Woody Johnson doesnt know what he's doing, he doesnt have the balls to fire Bowles and Macc, he should have known better than to Resign an aging Revis, he meddled in Macc's affairs and was probably the reason for Ryan Fitzpatrick to be resigned for 12 million etc....ALL OF THESE MOVES mind you, that many of the Jets fans praised (Consultant/GM/HC hiring's), requested to happen (resigning of Darrelle Revis and Ryan Fitzpatrick) or requested not to happen (trading of Mo Wilkerson, drafting "Best player available" in Williams and not for "need" Todd Gurley/Marcus Peters). All of this is what fans begged for, yet today these same fans are complaining about the outcome. 

 

Look, im not one to say that I dont complain when things dont go well with the team, but many of the moves that occurred, even before this new regime I knew was a mistake. When some of us fans were saying to "Pay Revis" because in his prime he's a "once in a generation-type talent", fans were busy calling him "Mevi$" because he's taking care of business the way a business man should while stating that we should trade him because of him being a good business man. The result? We havent seen the playoffs since we traded him. 

 

Some of us said to trade Wilkerson years ago during the Idzik era. Many fans were saying that "we need to stop trading away or letting our home grown talent get away", though for some reason that didnt matter with Revis. The result? Mo gets paid and now it comes out that he hasnt been the guy portrayed and is now in "IDGAF" mode now that we've given him JJ Watt money. 

Some of us said that The Panthers had the easiest schedule in the league last year and converted that into a SB appearance and an MVP winner. The Jets had the 2nd easiest schedule in the league last year and converted it to the 20th pick in the NFL draft.....DO NOT RESIGN RYAN FITZPATRICK AND FALL FOR FITZMAGIC. Many fans were saying that "He broke a record and we won 10 games" sign this beast. Result? Jets are 3-7 and Ryan Fitzpatrick was the worst starter in the league before being benched twice while getting paid 12 million. 

 

Now Fans are blaming Woody Johnson for what essentially fans truly wanted. How does that work exactly? How is it that Woody is always wrong (Not saying he wasnt wrong in the past) but when fans praise his moves and say that Woody is "finally doing what fans wanted him to do all along" and fans are getting the feeling that even this isnt working, how is Woody suddenly clueless again? 

 

Jets fans, you asked for this. You cant go firing guys for a bad season, just like you shouldnt be resigning Ryan Fitzpatrick to 12 million dollars for a good season. Both situations tend not to work out well for the team who does it. How about we let Macc/Bowles go through the bumps and bruises of still being relatively new to the positions and allow them time to figure things out and gain experience on the job? How do we fire a GM who was GM of the year just a year ago? Should the Panthers fire Ron Rivera today after taking them to the superbowl last year? 

 

Jets fans need to stop pointing the finger so much and allow things to take its course. Rome wasnt built in a day and neither will this team. Let Maccagnan do his thing, let Bowles figure things out and leave Woody alone because after all...he did EXACTLY what fans who purchased PSL's and spent thousands of dollars on season tickets, planes, towels, websites and billboards wanted him to do. 

[KRL]

Stop making sense!!!  Get the torches & pitchforks and storm Florham Park

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, KRL said:

Stop making sense!!!  Get the torches & pitchforks and storm Florham Park

It's getting ridiculous KRL! lol. 

[dbatesman]

tl;dr "I knew six months ago that all this bad stuff would happen, so don't blame Woody"

[August]

Woody always caves to fan and media pressure been that way since 2008. It's what he does. These fans that wanted Revis back, these fans that wanted to re-sign Fitzpatrick need to own it. 

[Ken Schroy]

The problem is the inane incompetence of the lifeless CS.

[NoBowles]

The majority of what we are seeing today can be traced back to Jan 2, 2013 when Woody decided to fire Tannenbaum (can't fault him for this) but not only NOT fire Rex, but insist that he would continue to be the HC of the Jets regardless of who the GM was and what the GM thought of Rex. Moves like this set franchises back for years, and that is exactly what we saw, and are continuing to see. We got stuck with Idzik who was not qualified in any way to be a GM, and was not on the same page with Rex. He drafts Geno, fine, but then after watching him for a year, decides to pass on Carr, Bridgewater and Garappolo. All 3 of whom are far better than anything we have on the roster today. Then, Idzik is gone, Rex is gone, and we are going to do it right this time, but yeah, we still don't get it right.

I don't blame him necessarily for Mac or Bowles, but I can't for the life of me understand why both the GM and the HC should be reporting to him, and not one reporting to the other depending on how you want to setup the football power. Who really wanted Fitz? Who really wanted Revis? Who really wanted Mo? Who wanted to draft Lee? We don't know the answer to this becasue we have a F'd up balance of power, and that is all 100% Woody's fault. 

Woody likes to play the "I'm not a football guy, so I don't make football decisions" BUT, he does make football decisions. He forced Favre, he forced Rex on the new GM, he forced Tebow, and there were even some rumblings that he was the one who wanted Fitz back.

It is no coincidence that the franchises with the most success over time are the ones with the best owners. Woody is a bottom 3rd of the league owner, and barring complete luck, this is what we will see here.

Now, its pretty clear that Bowles is not HC'ing material, so do we give him 2 more years to see if he grows into the position? OR, do we get rid of him and bring in a new HC, with new schemes, and players that don't fit? Well, might as well get rid of Mac too, and on and on and on. 

Woody is an awful, awful owner, and there is no defending him one bit. This franchise will always be a joke as long as he is the owner.

[Happy Clouds]

Want to send you a double thank you Villain.

First, for a well thought out and nicely written piece.

Secondly, since it took a few minutes to read, now I don't have time to scan through the rest of the threads, telling us how the Jets have the worst this.... the worst that......

[NYJ37/12]

Blaming the owner is always a weak argument. We are an extremely impatient group of people in the Northeast. We want fast everything, especially progress from our sports teams.  If the Jets intend on building this right, it will take a few tough seasons. Look around the league at teams that are now doing well, that have struggled for several years. It takes time and some good drafts.

[Villain The Foe]

9 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

The majority of what we are seeing today can be traced back to Jan 2, 2013 when Woody decided to fire Tannenbaum (can't fault him for this) but not only NOT fire Rex, but insist that he would continue to be the HC of the Jets regardless of who the GM was and what the GM thought of Rex. Moves like this set franchises back for years, and that is exactly what we saw, and are continuing to see. We got stuck with Idzik who was not qualified in any way to be a GM, and was not on the same page with Rex. He drafts Geno, fine, but then after watching him for a year, decides to pass on Carr, Bridgewater and Garappolo. All 3 of whom are far better than anything we have on the roster today. Then, Idzik is gone, Rex is gone, and we are going to do it right this time, but yeah, we still don't get it right.

I don't blame him necessarily for Mac or Bowles, but I can't for the life of me understand why both the GM and the HC should be reporting to him, and not one reporting to the other depending on how you want to setup the football power. Who really wanted Fitz? Who really wanted Revis? Who really wanted Mo? Who wanted to draft Lee? We don't know the answer to this because we have a F'd up balance of power, and that is all 100% Woody's fault. 

Woody likes to play the "I'm not a football guy, so I don't make football decisions" BUT, he does make football decisions. He forced Favre, he forced Rex on the new GM, he forced Tebow, and there were even some rumblings that he was the one who wanted Fitz back.

It is no coincidence that the franchises with the most success over time are the ones with the best owners. Woody is a bottom 3rd of the league owner, and barring complete luck, this is what we will see here.

Now, its pretty clear that Bowles is not HC'ing material, so do we give him 2 more years to see if he grows into the position? OR, do we get rid of him and bring in a new HC, with new schemes, and players that don't fit? Well, might as well get rid of Mac too, and on and on and on. 

Woody is an awful, awful owner, and there is no defending him one bit. This franchise will always be a joke as long as he is the owner.

I agree with the top. Im not here to say that Woody has never been wrong. It was stupid to fire Tanny then hire a GM but force a HC on him like that while also forcing that same GM not to spend any damn money. 

With that said though, when Woody realized his mistake he blew it all up and essentially did what fans have been requesting, which was get rid of everyone and hire some people who are considered "football guys" and let them structure the two top positions of the organization and allow them to build the coaching staff/player roster. 

 

Woody did that, yet fans are for some reason calling him out for what anyone who sat down and looked at tape seen coming. My only problem here is fans always being on the "correct side". When all of these moves were occurring and it looked good, fans were taking the credit by saying that Woody was finally listening to them. Now that we hit a bump in the road, suddenly the fans are leaving Woody out to dry. That's not cool. 

 

Im not saying not to have your opinion, but calling for guys to be fired and for Woody to sell the team is just nonsense. It hasnt even been two years, both GM/HC were rookies at their position, the guys who oversaw the deals were respected and accepted by Jets fans. You dont say that the "Owner did what we asked" then jump ship the moment things get rough. 

Were there some bad decisions made? Sure, all teams have them. Were there some that were absolutely avoidable? Sure, Ryan Fitzpatrick shouldnt have been resigned. That was just f'ing ridiculous. However, the overall construction of this team is what fans who consider themselves "true supporters" given that they pay for PSL's, game tickets, and everything else that helped get Idzik canned asked for. Jets fans need to see this through, period. 

[dbatesman]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Woody did that, yet fans are for some reason calling him out for what anyone who sat down and looked at tape seen coming. My only problem here is fans always being on the "correct side". When all of these moves were occurring and it looked good, fans were taking the credit by saying that Woody was finally listening to them. Now that we hit a bump in the road, suddenly the fans are leaving Woody out to dry. That's not cool. 

UnitedVillainFans

[CrazyCarl40]

41 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

tl;dr "I knew six months ago that all this bad stuff would happen, so don't blame Woody"

Stop defending a max 11 win owner.

[Ex-Rex]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Some of us said to trade Wilkerson years ago during the Idzik era. Many fans were saying that "we need to stop trading away or letting our home grown talent get away", though for some reason that didnt matter with Revis. The result? Mo gets paid and now it comes out that he hasnt been the guy portrayed and is now in "IDGAF" mode now that we've given him JJ Watt money. 

I believe the reason for Mo and Richardson's regression is Bowles. They don't buy into his style and his lack of adjustments and he simply isn't decisive enough. He seems to always be worried about how his decisions will be seen so he doesn't make one. Look at how he is waffling on the QB situation. While it is clear to the fans that at 3-7 the season is over, so why not start the kid QB and see what he's got over a good sample size of seven games? This dolt is still arguing the "best chance to win" guy. WTF?!!! So what if Fitz gives the team a meaningless win or two, does that tip the balance and make you look like a good HC? Absolutley not.

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, Ex-Rex said:

I believe the reason for Mo and Richardson's regression is Bowles. They don't buy into his style and his lack of adjustments and he simply isn't decisive enough. He seems to always be worried about how his decisions will be seen so he doesn't make one. Look at how he is waffling on the QB situation. While it is clear to the fans that at 3-7 the season is over, so why not start the kid QB and see what he's got over a good sample size of seven games? This dolt is still arguing the "best chance to win" guy. WTF?!!! So what if Fitz gives the team a meaningless win or two, does that tip the balance and make you look like a good HC? Absolutley not.

Maybe, maybe not. But those same guys have no excuse, especially after Mo got paid JJ Watt money and the other is saying that he's worth 100 million as well. I personally have no problem with Sheldon Richardson's play on the field. The stupidity of drafting Leo Williams and not trading Mo is a problem because now we're trying to fit square pegs in round holes...forcing Sheldon into LB'er roles simply because he's athletic for his size. Mo however has no reason to feel any type of way given that this is the coach/regime that actually paid him. 

 

Sure, Bowles is looking like an assclown with his overcommitment to Ryan Fitzpatrick while literally telling Petty the day before that he was starting against the Rams. That's just mind numbing, however, Leonard Williams doesnt seem to have a problem. He goes in and does his job...win or lose. Wilk and Sheldon (if what you are saying is in fact the case) need to get over that, and play for the team. 

 

Every team has this situation. The Seahawks were winning superbowls and there were guys who actually didnt like Wilson. That didnt stop them from going out there and playing. You dont have to like a guy or his method, but if you're paid to do something, handsomely mind you, then you should go do it. Im not saying that they cant have their issues, but if you're not "trying" then thats some bullsh*t. 

[NoBowles]

31 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I agree with the top. Im not here to say that Woody has never been wrong. It was stupid to fire Tanny then hire a GM but force a HC on him like that while also forcing that same GM not to spend any damn money. 

With that said though, when Woody realized his mistake he blew it all up and essentially did what fans have been requesting, which was get rid of everyone and hire some people who are considered "football guys" and let them structure the two top positions of the organization and allow them to build the coaching staff/player roster. 

 

Woody did that, yet fans are for some reason calling him out for what anyone who sat down and looked at tape seen coming. My only problem here is fans always being on the "correct side". When all of these moves were occurring and it looked good, fans were taking the credit by saying that Woody was finally listening to them. Now that we hit a bump in the road, suddenly the fans are leaving Woody out to dry. That's not cool. 

 

Im not saying not to have your opinion, but calling for guys to be fired and for Woody to sell the team is just nonsense. It hasnt even been two years, both GM/HC were rookies at their position, the guys who oversaw the deals were respected and accepted by Jets fans. You dont say that the "Owner did what we asked" then jump ship the moment things get rough. 

Were there some bad decisions made? Sure, all teams have them. Were there some that were absolutely avoidable? Sure, Ryan Fitzpatrick shouldnt have been resigned. That was just f'ing ridiculous. However, the overall construction of this team is what fans who consider themselves "true supporters" given that they pay for PSL's, game tickets, and everything else that helped get Idzik canned asked for. Jets fans need to see this through, period. 

Heres the problem I have with Woody... Anyone with any objection could have looked at the team that Mac and Bowles inherited and said there was nothing anyone was going to do to make it SB ready in a year or two, there were just too many holes from years and years of bad drafting and awful player development, with the biggest hole of all, no QB.

Mac and Bowles came in and made moves that showed they were going to try to be competitive in the short term, while building for the future. This is extremely difficult to do when you have as many holes as the Jets had, with the largest one being the QB position. When you do this, you make moves that are half assed in both directions, because these two often contradict each other..

So, why are we doing this? I can only see 3 possibilities, and I blame two of them on Woody.

1) Mac and Bowles were told to do this by Woody. Woody was sick of losing, and wanted to make some splashes and get some excitement back to his team. He did not want to read billboards about firing his GM, and watch his team suck again. We had cap space and he wanted to use it. I find this to be the most likely scenario, that Woody directed them down this half assed path they have been on.

2) Mac saw from afar what happened with Idzik when he wanted to do a complete tear down, and did not want to risk his predecessor's fate by continuing that tear down with a true rebuild, and was forced to do the half assed hybrid approach. I completely blame this on Woody for not setting his new GM straight on his roll, and his leeway.

3) Mac was naive enough to think he could pull off this double agenda on his own, and convinced Woody it could be done and we could be competitive while rebuilding.

Now, this is compounded by both Mac and Bowles reporting to Woody rather than one another.

Woody needs to realize sooner rather than later that he needs to hire the best guy for the job, one guy, I don't care if its a President of football ops, a powerful GM, or a powerful HC, and let this guy do his thing for a few years with zero direction from Woody, and Woody needs to stay out of every decision and sign checks. If after 3-4 years its clear this new guy is not the guy, start over. But Woody will never do that, because he is an awful, awful owner.

 

[rex-n-effect]

Long way to go just to take another jab at Fitz and insist you are the smartest fan in the room. 

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, NoBowles said:

Heres the problem I have with Woody... Anyone with any objection could have looked at the team that Mac and Bowles inherited and said there was nothing anyone was going to do to make it SB ready in a year or two, there were just too many holes from years and years of bad drafting and awful player development, with the biggest hole of all, no QB.

Mac and Bowles came in and made moves that showed they were going to try to be competitive in the short term, while building for the future. This is extremely difficult to do when you have as many holes as the Jets had, with the largest one being the QB position. When you do this, you make moves that are half assed in both directions, because these two often contradict each other..

So, why are we doing this? I can only see 3 possibilities, and I blame two of them on Woody.

1) Mac and Bowles were told to do this by Woody. Woody was sick of losing, and wanted to make some splashes and get some excitement back to his team. He did not want to read billboards about firing his GM, and watch his team suck again. We had cap space and he wanted to use it. I find this to be the most likely scenario, that Woody directed them down this half assed path they have been on.

2) Mac saw from afar what happened with Idzik when he wanted to do a complete tear down, and did not want to risk his predecessor's fate by continuing that tear down with a true rebuild, and was forced to do the half assed hybrid approach. I completely blame this on Woody for not setting his new GM straight on his roll, and his leeway.

3) Mac was naive enough to think he could pull off this double agenda on his own, and convinced Woody it could be done and we could be competitive while rebuilding.

Now, this is compounded by both Mac and Bowles reporting to Woody rather than one another.

Woody needs to realize sooner rather than later that he needs to hire the best guy for the job, one guy, I don't care if its a President of football ops, a powerful GM, or a powerful HC, and let this guy do his thing for a few years with zero direction from Woody, and Woody needs to stay out of every decision and sign checks. If after 3-4 years its clear this new guy is not the guy, start over. But Woody will never do that, because he is an awful, awful owner.

 

I truly, truly cant disagree with you here. I can only see it differently. Do you know what actually put us in this hole? IK Enemkpali/Geno Smith. If not for his thuggery we would have been able to observe Geno Smith last season. If not for Geno holding his position in disagreement of monies owed, we would have been able to observe Geno last season. I mostly blame IK for the situation because at the end of the day the end result was absolutely uncalled for. Now before you dismiss me here (not sure how you feel about Geno) just hear me out. 

 

That punch forced Fitz into the starter role, killing the opportunity to properly evaluate a young QB on a rookie deal. What happens is that the Jets win enough games against a last place schedule that ultimately put Macc in a position to have to consider resigning Fitz. THIS here is the problem. 

 

I totally agree with what you said about "QB being the biggest hole". The fact that this is absolutely true is enough to not sign Fitz, especially after drafting a QB last year, another this year and the 3rd that was already on the team but were all under rookie contracts. The thought process should have been to see what Geno had this year given that we couldnt last year. Now im not sure if the Fitz signing was Woody's doing, but I will say on the side of it being Macc's decision given that this is technically his job. 

IK punching Geno and Macc resigning Fitz were two of the biggest blows to this current season. Because of that we have no idea what any of these young QB's are about, Geno is likely gone, Fitz is gone and our QB situation is going to be worse with Petty as the "vet" heading into the offseason as it was when Geno was the guy when Macc/Bowles came in. 

As for woody not wanting to lose anymore, I cant halfway blame him for that. It's not like we needed to blow up the team and start again. The team was already blown up during Idzik's 2nd year. We have almost 200 million in cap and Idzik (probably because of Woody) completely stripped the team down to its bare bones. 

 

Remember, as of this conversation, almost 40 of the 53 man roster are new guys that came in under Maccagnan...so this isnt some "we should have blown it up when we had the chance". It was most definitely blown up already and replenished with guys that Macc wanted. All im saying is that people got over excited with a 10 win season against the 2nd easiest schedule in the league last year. Most Jets fans looked at it as a sucessful season. I looked at it as an underachievement and a waste of keeping Fitz the QB and not putting him back as the back up when Geno was healthy and ready to go. It wasnt like FItz was a "franchise QB" or a young QB like a Dak Prescott who's showing potential. He was an 11 year vet at the time who was playing with the most talented Jets roster I've personally seen against the easiest schedule I've personally seen. The job should have been given back to Geno, and if that didnt work then you go to Fitz. Then this year Fitz should have not been resigned and Petty promoted to 2nd string or if we drafted a QB such as Hackenberg then he then goes to 2nd string. However, they needed it to go. 

 

The biggest problem has been Ryan Fitzpatrick and IK being a violent human being if you ask me. Though again, I cannot say that you're incorrect with your perspective because I certainly understand it. 

[Villain The Foe]

5 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

Long way to go just to take another jab at Fitz and insist you are the smartest fan in the room. 

Glad you finally changed that avatar.

[whodeawhodat]

nice write up @Villain The Foe

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

nice write up @Villain The Foe

Thanks bro. 

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, August said:

Woody always caves to fan and media pressure been that way since 2008. It's what he does. These fans that wanted Revis back, these fans that wanted to re-sign Fitzpatrick need to own it. 

The long term damage this regime has done has nothing to do with Fitz on a one year deal.

[CanadaSteve]

Threads like this, where sensibility and thoughtfulness in content, are like a sanctuary....an oasis in the desert, if you will.

[Beerfish]

tl;dr

Woody wants to win, he has opened the wallet to do so.  His one big fault is this.

Hire a long time successful football exec with tons of experience to be between him and the lower levels of operations.

He should not be hiring korm ferry to run  gm search.

He should not be hiring some consultants to run a coach and gm search

He should 100% for sure not hire a coach independently of a gm.  The gm should always hire his own coach.

[Charlie Brown]

48 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Sure, Bowles is looking like an assclown with his overcommitment to Ryan Fitzpatrick while literally telling Petty the day before that he was starting against the Rams. 

You caught that stupidity as well!!

How is limiting a rookie QB's reps who had limited reps to begin due to injury a good thing!

Utter stupidity!!

[Villain The Foe]

11 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

You caught that stupidity as well!!

How is limiting a rookie QB's reps who had limited reps to begin due to injury a good thing!

Utter stupidity!!

This is why I wasnt even upset with Petty's performance on Sunday. The whole week of preparations was an exercise in futility. They should have just let Fitz sit the week and properly prepared Petty when it came to the week's reps. 

Going through the "We're not sure about Fitz but he may play", like he's some sort of franchise QB was asinine. 

[Jetdawgg]

1 hour ago, Ex-Rex said:

I believe the reason for Mo and Richardson's regression is Bowles. They don't buy into his style and his lack of adjustments and he simply isn't decisive enough. He seems to always be worried about how his decisions will be seen so he doesn't make one. Look at how he is waffling on the QB situation. While it is clear to the fans that at 3-7 the season is over, so why not start the kid QB and see what he's got over a good sample size of seven games? This dolt is still arguing the "best chance to win" guy. WTF?!!! So what if Fitz gives the team a meaningless win or two, does that tip the balance and make you look like a good HC? Absolutley not.

The reason for Mo and Sheldon regressing is the team configuration. They are 3/4 DE's now playing in a 4/3. A 3/4 DE is closer to a DT than a 4/3 DE. They are both used to being closer to the QB when lining up. Thus they get more sacks. They are both too big in size to be playing 4/3 DL. Many teams could live with one of them in a 4/3 and I think the Jets could also.

However, having both of them is very difficult to coach as the speed rushing edge element is just not there. To compound the problem they signed another DT to start. The LB'ing corps is 3/4 also with no pure edge rusher. Any coach in the NFL would have problems properly aligning this team.

This also causes problems in the secondary as they will often be asked to hold WR's longer. 

All of this Is on the GM. He picks the players. Signing Futz added insult to injury for that money and he became the worst QB in the league. 

Everyone makes mistakes. That is acceptable. It how you recover from the mistakes that should decide the fate of the newbie GM. Sometimes choosing the BPA is not the answer unless another move or two is made. In this case signing Mo to a big deal after drafting Leo is another mind bender.

Going forward the Jets need to add a speed rusher as a DE. Keeping both Mo and Sheldon. Mo to DT and SR to LDE as he has a bit more speed IMO. Getting rid of one of them can weaken the team. 

CThe coach has issues but he needs to be given the right parts to coach effectively. 

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, Jetdawgg said:

The reason for Mo and Sheldon regressing is the team configuration. They are 3/4 DE's now playing in a 4/3. A 3/4 DE is closer to a DT than a 4/3 DE. They are both used to being closer to the QB when lining up. Thus they get more sacks. They are both too big in size to be playing 4/3 DL. Many teams could live with one of them in a 4/3 and I think the Jets could also.

However, having both of them is very difficult to coach as the speed rushing edge element is just not there. To compound the problem they signed another DT to start. The LB'ing corps is 3/4 also with no pure edge rusher. Any coach in the NFL would have problems properly aligning this team.

This also causes problems in the secondary as they will often be asked to hold WR's longer. 

All of this Is on the GM. He picks the players. Signing Futz added insult to injury for that money and he became the worst QB in the league. 

Everyone makes mistakes. That is acceptable. It how you recover from the mistakes that should decide the fate of the newbie GM. Sometimes choosing the BPA is not the answer unless another move or two is made. In this case signing Mo to a big deal after drafting Leo is another mind bender.

Going forward the Jets need to add a speed rusher as a DE. Keeping both Mo and Sheldon. Mo to DT and SR to LDE as he has a bit more speed IMO. Getting rid of one of them can weaken the team. 

CThe coach has issues but he needs to be given the right parts to coach effectively. 

Exactly. It's one thing to draft the BAP in Sheldon Richardson when the only guy on the line that you have at the time is Mo Wilk. But when you then have Mo, Sheldon and Snacks, WTF are you drafting Williams and NOT trading Wilk? Furthermore, why are you then resigning Wilk when you have 2 of the other guys still under control with rookie deals for atleast a couple more seasons while at the same time having to let Snacks go because you cant afford to sign him given that you're allocating that money to a guy who can easily be replaced by 2 guys currently on the damn roster? 

 

Kills me man. 

[Villain The Foe]

44 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The long term damage this regime has done has nothing to do with Fitz on a one year deal.

True, but the short term damage is evident. We started the season out with 4 QB's, 3 on rookie deals (with one on his last year) and Ryan Fitzpatrick. Geno's done, Petty cant get in a full week of practice to prepare for a game because of Fitz and no one knows what the heck Hackenberg is....though he's a 2nd round pick. 

 

We would have had a better idea if we would have left Fitz in free agency. I would have preferred to go 3-7 knowing what we had on the roster in preparation for the draft rather than wasting this season on Fitz and not actually know what we have behind him. 

 

That's short term damage that could turn potentially long if we decide to pass on a QB that ends up being good while the guys we currently have dont pan out. 

[Jetdawgg]

3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Exactly. It's one thing to draft the BAP in Sheldon Richardson when the only guy on the line that you have at the time is Mo Wilk. But when you then have Mo, Sheldon and Snacks, WTF are you drafting Williams and NOT trading Wilk? Furthermore, why are you then resigning Wilk when you have 2 of the other guys still under control with rookie deals for atleast a couple more seasons while at the same time having to let Snacks go because you cant afford to sign him given that you're allocating that money to a guy who can easily be replaced by 2 guys currently on the damn roster? 

 

Kills me man. 

The communications between the HC and the GM has to improve. 

Next season's look on D: Draft pick at DE  Mo. Leo. SR

Go with the new, young LB'ers with Lee in the middle. He has the speed to cover line to line.

Secondary ugh. Cut Revis. Draft two CB's. This will prolong the rebuild.

[Bleedin Green]

Villain in his truest of forms.  Even when there is somewhat of a coherent argument that he's perhaps trying to make, he can't help but stop to make sure everyone hears how amazing brilliant he has declared himself to be for the things he knew the whole time, just as long as you of course ignore the countless number of things he was wrong about.  Because, you know, those don't count.

There is some validity to your point, but as usual, you pretty much throw it all away by having your top priority being to convince everyone of your brilliance.  Thanks for letting everyone know that it's not Woody's fault simply because you're the only person who could have ever foreseen it all.  I mean, who could imagine something the Jets tried to do ultimately being a failure?  Amazing stuff.

The bottom line is that, as usual amongst any fans, the reactions are generally to opposite extremes.  Either those trying to forgive or make excuses about absolutely everything, or the others desperately trying to find one single person to blame for it all.  Neither are typically based in reality as much as it is what people want to believe.

[NoBowles]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I truly, truly cant disagree with you here. I can only see it differently. Do you know what actually put us in this hole? IK Enemkpali/Geno Smith. If not for his thuggery we would have been able to observe Geno Smith last season. If not for Geno holding his position in disagreement of monies owed, we would have been able to observe Geno last season. I mostly blame IK for the situation because at the end of the day the end result was absolutely uncalled for. Now before you dismiss me here (not sure how you feel about Geno) just hear me out. 

 

That punch forced Fitz into the starter role, killing the opportunity to properly evaluate a young QB on a rookie deal. What happens is that the Jets win enough games against a last place schedule that ultimately put Macc in a position to have to consider resigning Fitz. THIS here is the problem. 

 

I totally agree with what you said about "QB being the biggest hole". The fact that this is absolutely true is enough to not sign Fitz, especially after drafting a QB last year, another this year and the 3rd that was already on the team but were all under rookie contracts. The thought process should have been to see what Geno had this year given that we couldnt last year. Now im not sure if the Fitz signing was Woody's doing, but I will say on the side of it being Macc's decision given that this is technically his job. 

IK punching Geno and Macc resigning Fitz were two of the biggest blows to this current season. Because of that we have no idea what any of these young QB's are about, Geno is likely gone, Fitz is gone and our QB situation is going to be worse with Petty as the "vet" heading into the offseason as it was when Geno was the guy when Macc/Bowles came in. 

As for woody not wanting to lose anymore, I cant halfway blame him for that. It's not like we needed to blow up the team and start again. The team was already blown up during Idzik's 2nd year. We have almost 200 million in cap and Idzik (probably because of Woody) completely stripped the team down to its bare bones. 

 

Remember, as of this conversation, almost 40 of the 53 man roster are new guys that came in under Maccagnan...so this isnt some "we should have blown it up when we had the chance". It was most definitely blown up already and replenished with guys that Macc wanted. All im saying is that people got over excited with a 10 win season against the 2nd easiest schedule in the league last year. Most Jets fans looked at it as a sucessful season. I looked at it as an underachievement and a waste of keeping Fitz the QB and not putting him back as the back up when Geno was healthy and ready to go. It wasnt like FItz was a "franchise QB" or a young QB like a Dak Prescott who's showing potential. He was an 11 year vet at the time who was playing with the most talented Jets roster I've personally seen against the easiest schedule I've personally seen. The job should have been given back to Geno, and if that didnt work then you go to Fitz. Then this year Fitz should have not been resigned and Petty promoted to 2nd string or if we drafted a QB such as Hackenberg then he then goes to 2nd string. However, they needed it to go. 

 

The biggest problem has been Ryan Fitzpatrick and IK being a violent human being if you ask me. Though again, I cannot say that you're incorrect with your perspective because I certainly understand it. 

I think its a shame what happened to Geno last year, and would have loved to have seen him had the chance to improve with a far better offense, but I don't think Geno is a good QB, nor do I think he will ever be anything more than a good backup QB.

I also think that if Geno is not a starter, we are in the exact same position as we are now, a bad team with holes everywhere and no QB. So unless you think Geno is a legitimate starter, I don't see how Fitzpatrick is the biggest issue we have.

He has played terribly this year, but so has the rest of the team. Nothing done in the offseason gave me any indication they think Fitzpatrick is anything more than a one year bridge to a hopefully better QB. The problem is it does not look like they found that QB, and outside of WR, they are not in any better position they we were in when Mac and Bowles took the job.

If Geno is a legitimate starter, we have even bigger problems with Mac and Bowles for not recognizing it, and instead going after Fitzpatrick. And what hope does that give us that they have any ability to find a QB in the future?

No matter how I slice it, I always come back to Woody.

[joewilly12]

Woody Johnson controls everything only he can fix it. 

 

[ScarletKnight89]

Great post. That's what fans do. They complain. They love things when they're going well and then attack when things are going bad and act like they knew certain things were a mistake long ago.

I just hope Woody doesn't buy into what the fans say and how they act. I really hope he tunes that stuff out and doesn't react based off of what he hears for fear of empty seats or criticism.

If Woody believes that Casserly and Wolf helped him find the right 2 guys for the job in Macc and Bowles then he needs to tune out the fan noise and stick with the guys he believes in. That's how you have to operate. You can't cut ties this early. If this was year 4 and we hadn't made the playoffs and this was the current state of our team it would be different. But it's been a year and a half. I hope Woody sticks with the guys he hired and moves forward with them.

[Bugg]

4 hours ago, NoBowles said:

The majority of what we are seeing today can be traced back to Jan 2, 2013 when Woody decided to fire Tannenbaum (can't fault him for this) but not only NOT fire Rex, but insist that he would continue to be the HC of the Jets regardless of who the GM was and what the GM thought of Rex. Moves like this set franchises back for years, and that is exactly what we saw, and are continuing to see. We got stuck with Idzik who was not qualified in any way to be a GM, and was not on the same page with Rex. He drafts Geno, fine, but then after watching him for a year, decides to pass on Carr, Bridgewater and Garappolo. All 3 of whom are far better than anything we have on the roster today. Then, Idzik is gone, Rex is gone, and we are going to do it right this time, but yeah, we still don't get it right.

I don't blame him necessarily for Mac or Bowles, but I can't for the life of me understand why both the GM and the HC should be reporting to him, and not one reporting to the other depending on how you want to setup the football power. Who really wanted Fitz? Who really wanted Revis? Who really wanted Mo? Who wanted to draft Lee? We don't know the answer to this becasue we have a F'd up balance of power, and that is all 100% Woody's fault. 

Woody likes to play the "I'm not a football guy, so I don't make football decisions" BUT, he does make football decisions. He forced Favre, he forced Rex on the new GM, he forced Tebow, and there were even some rumblings that he was the one who wanted Fitz back.

It is no coincidence that the franchises with the most success over time are the ones with the best owners. Woody is a bottom 3rd of the league owner, and barring complete luck, this is what we will see here.

Now, its pretty clear that Bowles is not HC'ing material, so do we give him 2 more years to see if he grows into the position? OR, do we get rid of him and bring in a new HC, with new schemes, and players that don't fit? Well, might as well get rid of Mac too, and on and on and on. 

Woody is an awful, awful owner, and there is no defending him one bit. This franchise will always be a joke as long as he is the owner.

The organizational chart under Woody Johnson is a circle with him in the center. Which is why he didn't fire Ryan with Tannenbaum,why Bradway got kicked upstairs,why Ryan was inexplicably retained again after Idzik's 1st year.  and why Macc did not hire Bowles. No other franchise lacks a chain of command like this. it's completely dysfunctional by Johnson's own design. 

[C Mart]

This type of well thought out logic & intelligence has no place on here.