Bowles: Fitz is Still the Starter…Still

[OH THE PAIN]

2 hours ago, Mike135 said:

Mod Squad,

One black , one white , one blonde ...

[JetFaninMI]

sh*tz has lost his confidence. Its plain to see. He is hesitant, makes bad decisions, and just has been flat out awful. I would love to see Petty play. IMHO they can go 3-13 just as easily with Petty as they can with sh*tz. So why not play Petty?

[joewilly12]

Insert Todd Bowles name can someone please do it......Lets get the billboard guys back in action 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, rangerous said:

The early records of parcells and the bellichicken are tabulated below.  both coaches had early bad seasons.  i believe parcells first season was due, in part , to qb issues.  the bellichicken had qb's in kosar and then vinnie.  of course he started out with bledsoe when he joined the patsies and then moved on to brady.  the point is people tend to forget it takes some time to build up a team and sometimes what's seen on the field isn't any indication of what's going on behind the scenes.  is bowles the coach the jets need?  no telling just yet.  he brought some dogs to the dance and now he's stuck with them until the end of the season.

Bill Parcells

									Playoffs					Challenges
Year	Age	Tm	Lg	G	W	L	T	W-L%	G plyf	W plyf	L plyf	W-L%	Rank	Num	Won	Notes
1983	42	New York Giants	NFL	16	3	12	1	.200					5
1984	43	New York Giants	NFL	16	9	7	0	.563	2	1	1	.500	2
1985	44	New York Giants	NFL	16	10	6	0	.625	2	1	1	.500	2
1986	45	New York Giants	NFL	16	14	2	0	.875	3	3	0	1.000	1			Super Bowl Champions
1987	46	New York Giants	NFL	15	6	9	0	.400					5
1988	47	New York Giants	NFL	16	10	6	0	.625					2
1989	48	New York Giants	NFL	16	12	4	0	.750	1	0	1	.000	1
1990	49	New York Giants	NFL	16	13	3	0	.813	3	3	0	1.000	1			Super Bowl Champions

The Bellichicken

									Playoffs					Challenges
Year	Age	Tm	Lg	G	W	L	T	W-L%	G plyf	W plyf	L plyf	W-L%	Rank	Num	Won	Notes
1991	39	Cleveland Browns	NFL	16	6	10	0	.375					3
1992	40	Cleveland Browns	NFL	16	7	9	0	.438					3
1993	41	Cleveland Browns	NFL	16	7	9	0	.438					3
1994	42	Cleveland Browns	NFL	16	11	5	0	.688	2	1	1	.500	2
1995	43	Cleveland Browns	NFL	16	5	11	0	.313					4
2000	48	New England Patriots	NFL	16	5	11	0	.313					5	4	0
2001	49	New England Patriots	NFL	16	11	5	0	.688	3	3	0	1.000	1	6	3	Super Bowl Champions
2002	50	New England Patriots	NFL	16	9	7	0	.563					2	9	5

There was no such thing as free agency in the NFL until 1993. Apples and oranges comparison, particularly in light of the insane amounts Maccagnan spent in free agency upon arriving. From 2014 to 2016 they have had veteran player turnover at half the starting positions: QB, RB, #1 WR, TE (lol), LT, LG, CB1, CB2, NB, FS. That doesn't include any draft picks starting, nor does it include inherited younger players who improved into starters, like Winters & Enunwa.

Bowles is a blockhead, and so is Maccagnan. They are both simply in over their heads. 

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

This is where we disagree.  I believe Bowles already thinks Petty is not even an NFL caliber back-up.  He doesn't need to see more.  He was cheap and thought they could turn him into a back-up - they were wrong.

This is absolutely a possibility, but Bowles has no clue what goes on, with regard to the offense, unless someone tells him what's going on. Seriously, what kind of head coach makes a decision to start a lousy veteran QB at 3-8, and cites vote by committee as his validation? So his judgment is nothing to be valued on its face. Whatever he thinks is what others tell him to think, and they have their own reasons.

It's equally likely that he has so little control of his team from a leadership standpoint, and is therefore so afraid of players mailing it in, that he's keeping Fitz out there to "prove" to these overpriced douchebags that he isn't tanking on purpose.

This team - this franchise - is a total mess.

[greenwave81]

I'm beginning to think that the NYJ are less concerned about seeing what Petty has to offer than to see if they want to resign Ryan Fitzpatrick again.

Ya know, with a weak schedule next year maybe we win 10 again?

Laughable.

 

[drdetroit]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

This is absolutely a possibility, but Bowles has no clue what goes on, with regard to the offense, unless someone tells him what's going on. Seriously, what kind of head coach makes a decision to start a lousy veteran QB at 3-8, and cites vote by committee as his validation? So his judgment is nothing to be valued on its face. Whatever he thinks is what others tell him to think, and they have their own reasons.

It's equally likely that he has so little control of his team from a leadership standpoint, and is therefore so afraid of players mailing it in, that he's keeping Fitz out there to "prove" to these overpriced douchebags that he isn't tanking on purpose.

This team - this franchise - is a total mess.

Bowles is totally lost.

 

I think Mac can be salvaged but we need a real head coach like Tom Coughlin who can be the foot in the ass

[Hael]

To play devils advocate, I think it's clear that they are evaluating more than just the qb position.  For instance you need a qb with the full playbook to evaluate Enunwa and the other rookie WRs and TE.  Petty doesn't give you that.

also if the vets on the D gives up, it's hard to really evaluate players on that side either.  

Id still prefer to see Petty, but one thing for sure is that this team believes Fitz is a significantly better player than Hack or Petty.

[Snell41]

his chance to play was due to injury.  They didn't have another back up.
They thought he might become a solid back up.  That's not just an opinion, it's what Mac said about him.  They viewed him as a person that might progress to be a back up level QB - now they know he can't be.
QB's are, in fact, expected to progress from year one to year two - sometimes they don't. 

And exactly what harm is it to throw him out there anyway? Even if Petty has a 1% chance of being a competent QB it's still worth more to chase that 1% chance than to keep trotting old 0% out there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sperm Edwards]

8 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Bowles is totally lost.

 

I think Mac can be salvaged but we need a real head coach like Tom Coughlin who can be the foot in the ass

No, they're both totally lost.

Bad as Bowles is, he merely seems more obvious week in/week out because he's an easier target with decisions regarding Fitzpatrick and a handful of his absolute worst calls. In Bowles's defense, most "correct" coaching decisions in a game become useless a week later, while an equally "correct" decision in player acquisition keeps repeatedly crediting the GM week after week for years. It's just an easier job. Win less than half your games as a HC and you suck. Hit on less than half your draft picks in the same span and fans still give you credit for doing a good job. The hardest & most important part of being a GM is finding a franchise QB, and at this task he's failed miserably for 2 years running with no obvious answer coming up in year 3. Right now there's at least a 50/50 chance our starting QB in 2017 is again going to be Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Entering year 3 of this "competitive rebuild" the roster is a QB-less mishmash of misfit puzzle pieces, and that is on Maccagnan. In the (very unlikely) event Woody fired another GM after 2 years, Maccagnan would be handing the team off in a similar or worse situation than the one he inherited. 

Maccagnan inherited half the current starting team, very favorable draft positioning, and well over $100M in cap space over these 2 years alone, to spend wisely and help set us up for years. On top of that, next year there should have been at least 10 more draft picks to start with, before parlaying at least 2-3 of them into higher picks in '17 or '18. He's a scout by background and all his trades are our draft picks for others' short term veteran castoffs (most of them now bad players themselves, making these decisions that much worse), while failing in 100% of his attempts to trade our unwanted/unneeded players for picks. 

He's gotten massive, undeserved credit for doing very little right, and far more wrong, during his idiotic "competitive rebuild" seasons. Half the starting roster is either in need of immediate replacement next year, or are scheduled to be cuts or UFAs outright. Maccagnan has been a huge dope thus far, and am surprised by people who think he's been even ok at his job.

Lastly, if septuagenarian Tom Coughlin is the answer then, as the saying goes, you're asking the wrong question.

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No, they're both totally lost.

Bad as Bowles is, he merely seems more obvious week in/week out because he's an easier target with decisions regarding Fitzpatrick and a handful of his absolute worst calls. In Bowles's defense, most "correct" coaching decisions in a game become useless a week later, while an equally "correct" decision in player acquisition keeps repeatedly crediting the GM week after week for years. It's just an easier job. Win less than half your games as a HC and you suck. Hit on less than half your draft picks in the same span and fans still give you credit for doing a good job. The hardest & most important part of being a GM is finding a franchise QB, and at this task he's failed miserably for 2 years running with no obvious answer coming up in year 3. Right now there's at least a 50/50 chance our starting QB in 2017 is again going to be Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Entering year 3 of this "competitive rebuild" the roster is a QB-less mishmash of misfit puzzle pieces, and that is on Maccagnan. In the (very unlikely) event Woody fired another GM after 2 years, Maccagnan would be handing the team off in a similar or worse situation than the one he inherited. 

Maccagnan inherited half the current starting team, very favorable draft positioning, and well over $100M in cap space over these 2 years alone, to spend wisely and help set us up for years. On top of that, next year there should have been at least 10 more draft picks to start with, before parlaying at least 2-3 of them into higher picks in '17 or '18. He's a scout by background and all his trades are our draft picks for others' short term veteran castoffs (most of them now bad players themselves, making these decisions that much worse), while failing in 100% of his attempts to trade our unwanted/unneeded players for picks. 

He's gotten massive, undeserved credit for doing very little right, and far more wrong, during his idiotic "competitive rebuild" seasons. Half the starting roster is either in need of immediate replacement next year, or are scheduled to be cuts or UFAs outright. Maccagnan has been a huge dope thus far, and am surprised by people who think he's been even ok at his job.

Lastly, if septuagenarian Tom Coughlin is the answer then, as the saying goes, you're asking the wrong question.

Bowles being in such a rush to punt the football is maddening, but other than that he's been pretty much the standard football coach. Boring, risk averse...the standard.

Maccagnan is a much, much bigger issue as you've pointed out. 

[Tinstar]

Like everything else about the jets, there might be a rush to judgment here with both The GM and the HC . Both men have issues just like all the rest of us, but both men also have eggs in the water, and the heat has only been on for 2 minutes . There is a reason why they call them 10 hard boil minute eggs . Let the process play itself out, and then make an assessment .

[Beerfish]

43 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No, they're both totally lost.

Bad as Bowles is, he merely seems more obvious week in/week out because he's an easier target with decisions regarding Fitzpatrick and a handful of his absolute worst calls. In Bowles's defense, most "correct" coaching decisions in a game become useless a week later, while an equally "correct" decision in player acquisition keeps repeatedly crediting the GM week after week for years. It's just an easier job. Win less than half your games as a HC and you suck. Hit on less than half your draft picks in the same span and fans still give you credit for doing a good job. The hardest & most important part of being a GM is finding a franchise QB, and at this task he's failed miserably for 2 years running with no obvious answer coming up in year 3. Right now there's at least a 50/50 chance our starting QB in 2017 is again going to be Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Entering year 3 of this "competitive rebuild" the roster is a QB-less mishmash of misfit puzzle pieces, and that is on Maccagnan. In the (very unlikely) event Woody fired another GM after 2 years, Maccagnan would be handing the team off in a similar or worse situation than the one he inherited. 

Maccagnan inherited half the current starting team, very favorable draft positioning, and well over $100M in cap space over these 2 years alone, to spend wisely and help set us up for years. On top of that, next year there should have been at least 10 more draft picks to start with, before parlaying at least 2-3 of them into higher picks in '17 or '18. He's a scout by background and all his trades are our draft picks for others' short term veteran castoffs (most of them now bad players themselves, making these decisions that much worse), while failing in 100% of his attempts to trade our unwanted/unneeded players for picks. 

He's gotten massive, undeserved credit for doing very little right, and far more wrong, during his idiotic "competitive rebuild" seasons. Half the starting roster is either in need of immediate replacement next year, or are scheduled to be cuts or UFAs outright. Maccagnan has been a huge dope thus far, and am surprised by people who think he's been even ok at his job.

Lastly, if septuagenarian Tom Coughlin is the answer then, as the saying goes, you're asking the wrong question.

I agree for the most part with this, I do think that a GM who is given zero say over his coach and cannot hire his own coach is in huge trouble from day one.  It's apparent in some of Macs moves, he is getting players he thinks should be a good fit and the coach is having major issues fitting them in. 

[JiFtheOracle]

5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I agree for the most part with this, I do think that a GM who is given zero say over his coach and cannot hire his own coach is in huge trouble from day one.  It's apparent in some of Macs moves, he is getting players he thinks should be a good fit and the coach is having major issues fitting them in. 

It's the absolute worst scenario.  

[JetFanWithNOPSL2017]

Maccagnan is a high quality GM

Bowles is a high quality HC

The only really bad element on the Jets are the instant gratification, hair trigger, fire everybody every year part of our fan base egged on by a diet of halfwitted sports talk radio callers and loser hosts and writers like Mehta, Myers and Cimini

[jackhuntr]

19 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

My God what the hell did i do in my life that I deserve to support the worst team in organized sports.

Hang in there, it could be worse, we could be Cub fans waiting to win a World Series.............oh wait..........

[phill1c]

22 minutes ago, JetFanWithNOPSL2017 said:

Maccagnan is a high quality GM

Bowles is a high quality HC

The only really bad element on the Jets are the instant gratification, hair trigger, fire everybody every year part of our fan base egged on by a diet of halfwitted sports talk radio callers and loser hosts and writers like Mehta, Myers and Cimini
 

I don't read Mehta, Myers or Cimini and I think Bowles sucks as a HC. So, it ain't all the media's fault.

[peebag]

25 minutes ago, JetFanWithNOPSL2017 said:

Maccagnan is a high quality GM

Bowles is a high quality HC

The only really bad element on the Jets are the instant gratification, hair trigger, fire everybody every year part of our fan base egged on by a diet of halfwitted sports talk radio callers and loser hosts and writers like Mehta, Myers and Cimini
 

yea...47 years of crap will cause a hair trigger....

[Tinstar]

1 minute ago, peebag said:

yea...47 years of crap will cause a hair trigger....

What does mac have to do with that . The man has been here for 2 yrs, and one of them was a 10 win season .

[peebag]

1 minute ago, Tinstar said:

What does mac have to do with that . The man has been here for 2 yrs, and one of them was a 10 win season .

I have no problem with him...yet.  Jury is still out on him.  

All I'm saying is that this team hasn't sniffed a championship in like forever.  Don't blame the fans for anything.  They didn't sign Fitzoid to a 12 mil contract.

[Tinstar]

6 minutes ago, peebag said:

I have no problem with him...yet.  Jury is still out on him.  

All I'm saying is that this team hasn't sniffed a championship in like forever.  Don't blame the fans for anything.  They didn't sign Fitzoid to a 12 mil contract.

No  they didn't, but for the most part it's what they wanted and what they got . Bowles did what he had to do. Mac did what he had to do . The fans and the media play the blame game afterwards with their dirty hands .

[phill1c]

2 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

No  they didn't, but for the most part it's what they wanted and what they got . Bowles did what he had to do. Mac did what he had to do . The fans and the media play the blame game afterwards with their dirty hands .

absolutely inaccurate.

who is ultimately responsible? the fans, who have ZERO input on drafting, free agency, game plans, practices, or in-game management?

or the people getting paid to acquire talent, develop it, and manage it during the game?

 

[56mehl56]

47 minutes ago, JetFanWithNOPSL2017 said:

Maccagnan is a high quality GM

Bowles is a high quality HC

The only really bad element on the Jets are the instant gratification, hair trigger, fire everybody every year part of our fan base egged on by a diet of halfwitted sports talk radio callers and loser hosts and writers like Mehta, Myers and Cimini
 

I agree with Maccagnan . I wanted to believe the same with Bowles but to date he's made many decisons that make me question if he is even a HC candidate.

[ChuckkieB]

Starting Fitz for even one more snap is a horrible decision.  If the decision is Bowles to make alone, then he is a horrible coach with zero judgement and should be fired about a minute after the season ends. I'm sick and tired of this organization treading water.  Its absolutely mind boggling to think that with the season up in flames, this team has a second year QB and a rookie rotting on the bench but yet they continue to trot out a journey stiff who has no future with the team and who is statistically the worst QB in the NFL this year. I don't know if I should be laughing at the absurdity or crying.

[bgivs21]

How mind-numbingly stupid. There's no good reason to start Fitz. You can forgive loses with a 2nd year guy getting experience & you get a good pick next year to build on. You can't forgive losing with a veteran who has no future here or winning out with the veteran risking your high draft pick all for the sake of meaningless wins. 

[Tinstar]

45 minutes ago, phill1c said:

absolutely inaccurate.

who is ultimately responsible? the fans, who have ZERO input on drafting, free agency, game plans, practices, or in-game management?

or the people getting paid to acquire talent, develop it, and manage it during the game?

 

Then why are you 2nd guessing every move they make and making a federal case against every move  ?

[joewilly12]

[AFJF]

 

[kelticwizard]

Okay, just to play Devil's Advocate:

Maybe Petty and / or Hackenberg show first class talent in arm strength/accuracy and other areas, but just don't "get it" yet on changing plays, analyzing defenses and calling out pass protections.  Does a good coach / GM send them out there to the slaughter just to see what they can do, or does he hold back until they develop the tools to actually be able to go out there and win?

 

[phill1c]

40 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Then why are you 2nd guessing every move they make and making a federal case against every move  ?

Because if fans didn't, boards like this wouldn't exist.

why are you 2nd guessing every opinion I have and making a federal case out of fans discussing their favorite semi-pro team?

[phill1c]

44 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

Okay, just to play Devil's Advocate:

Maybe Petty and / or Hackenberg show first class talent in arm strength/accuracy and other areas, but just don't "get it" yet on changing plays, analyzing defenses and calling out pass protections.  Does a good coach / GM send them out there to the slaughter just to see what they can do, or does he hold back until they develop the tools to actually be able to go out there and win?

 

So, you're presupposing that Fitz "gets it"? He's thrown the most INTs in the league. And they often let the center call out pass protections.

Plus, it's ******* F-O-O-T-B-A-L-L, a game every QB on an NFL roster has been playing for most of his life. Are we really to believe they aren't ready after a full season, off-season, training camp, and 11 games of a season?

Please. we have a guy who posts explanations of defenses, offenses, and why plays are successful or not every week and I don't think he's ever practiced or played in the NFL. It ain't rocket science.

[56mehl56]

46 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

Okay, just to play Devil's Advocate:

Maybe Petty and / or Hackenberg show first class talent in arm strength/accuracy and other areas, but just don't "get it" yet on changing plays, analyzing defenses and calling out pass protections.  Does a good coach / GM send them out there to the slaughter just to see what they can do, or does he hold back until they develop the tools to actually be able to go out there and win?

 

Then why the F is Ryan Fitzpatrick playing QB - haven't we seen enough of Ryan "one read" Fitzpatrick to put this theory to bed.

[joewilly12]

[ChuckkieB]

2 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

Okay, just to play Devil's Advocate:

Maybe Petty and / or Hackenberg show first class talent in arm strength/accuracy and other areas, but just don't "get it" yet on changing plays, analyzing defenses and calling out pass protections.  Does a good coach / GM send them out there to the slaughter just to see what they can do, or does he hold back until they develop the tools to actually be able to go out there and win?

 

Yes,  No better way to evaluate a player than to let them play.  If they prove to be sh*t, so be it.  At least we we will know THIS year instead of making moves next year based on speculation.  There is no rational argument to start Fitz. 

[varjet]

The Jets will need to sign a veteran for 2017.  If they draft another QB, which is highly likely, that means that they could likely have to cut Petty (or Hack, but 2017 likely Petty).  So the Jets could conceivably cut a high 4th round pick they traded up for.

Or, that being said, a rebuilding team maybe needs 4 QBs.  Better than 4 TEs that don't play.