Kapernick: a way out

[The Crusher]

Hmmmm, he kinda already found a way out.. no?

[nyjunc]

13 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

In 12 games in his last year with nothing around him he had a 90+ QB rating with a 16TD-4INT ratio. Your argument holds zero water. You don’t like him. I get it. But for you to spout off claims that can easily be trounced by cold, hard numbers is just ridiculous. 

oh his rating and his meaningless garbage time #s not that he was 1-11 as a starter while the other QB was 1-4 and the other QB led the O to more PPG than Colin it's about meaningless garbage time #s to you. some of us can dig deeper than just looking at meaningless garbage time #s. 

It's not about me, if NFL execs thought he was a difference making QB he would have been signed despite all his shenanigans. he's not and that's why he's unemployed. if he was good enough to overcome the distraction he'd have been signed in a heartbeat.

[JetFaninMI]

10 minutes ago, BigO said:

Not true. He was injured and was not at full speed.  The team was dismantled after Harbugh was kicked out. Any QB is going to suck without protection or a decent supporting cast.  Kap was a blown PI away from winning a SB. I wonder if he did win how he’d be perceived.  He’d probably be able to run for mayor. 

So its not his fault. Everyone else is too blame. Blah blah blah. Thats the same mantra everyone else is spewing now. The guy had one win as a starter. The only reason his stats were halfway decent was because they came at a time when the Niners were playing from behind. You know in a league were players with suspect character who can play at a high level are signed without regard for that suspect character how can  Kaepernicks protest be regarded as the reason why he is not on a team? If he could still play or even showed flashes of it he would be starting or on a roster. Do I have to give the numerous examples of guys who have screwed up but were given a pass because they were good at football? Hell Ray Lewis is the prime example. DUI's, spousal abuse, assault, are just a few of the infractions that have been ignored because the guy could play. No if Kaepernick was even half the player he was in that Super Bowl he would at least be on an NFL roster or maybe even starting.

[nyjunc]

13 hours ago, BigO said:

He’d be the starter in this team and numerous others - in other words COLLUSION 

no he wouldn't, if he would be then he would have been signed.  he could only start on really bad teams and really bad teams are usually trying to develop younger QBs and a QB like keep wouldn't really help.

13 hours ago, BigO said:

Yea let’s keep it real nice and white. The worm ? has turned. The resistance is growing stronger. We ain’t going back to 1960 now matter how much they try. And Woody can keep his azz in England and never come back. 

Please fire up the Delorean and come back to 2017.  Just b/c you make stuff up in your head doesn't make it true. haven't we seen enough examples of staged racism in recent years?

12 hours ago, BigO said:

Genoa Smith is the back up QB on the Giants. Enuf said. 

Kaep was 1-11 as starter last year, Geno is 4-11 in his last 15 and he doesn't bring the baggage Kaep would bring. 

9 hours ago, BigO said:

But I guess paying over 6 mill to a 38 year old hasbeen is worth winning 5-7 games. As Spock says that’s not logical.

it's worth more than 1-11, right?

46 minutes ago, BigO said:

Nonsense. ‘Mentors’ are nothing more than veteran back up QB’s like when Brunnel was here or Fitz.  Mac had no intention ever to have McCown play the role of a back up. He was strictly signed to be the starter from day one of signing the contract.  Fitz on the other hand was never really supposed to even see the field and was in essence a ‘mentor’ until of course Geno got knocked out. 

McCown was brought here to play as long as the young guys weren't ready, he was also brought here to help those young players develop. He's done an outstanding job for us and w/ a team that was supposed to win 1-2 games has already exceeded kaep's wins of the last 2 years total.

21 minutes ago, BigO said:

Not true. He was injured and was not at full speed.  The team was dismantled after Harbugh was kicked out. Any QB is going to suck without protection or a decent supporting cast.  Kap was a blown PI away from winning a SB. I wonder if he did win how he’d be perceived.  He’d probably be able to run for mayor. 

so he sucked b/c of his supporting cast but was one blown PI from winning SB and you don't mention the cast?  the cast that was one blown call away from the SB in 2011 and was 6-2-1 when he took over in 2012.

2016 SF:

Blaine Gabbert started the first 5 games.  In those 5 games the offense averaged 22.2 PPG, lowest point total was 17. Led O to 28 and 27 pts in games which was season high for SF

Colin kaepernick started the final 11 games. In those 11 games the O averaged 17.8 PPG, had below 17 3 times. Most pts he led O to was 23.

2nd half pts:

Gabbert led O to 62 2nd half pts in 5 games

Kaep led O to 57 2nd half pts in 11 games

 

THIS is why he wasn't signed along w/ his off field nonsense.  If he was a difference maker he would have been able to differentiate himself from Blaine Gabbert.

 

[Obrien2Toon]

19 hours ago, bitonti said:

Do you honestly believe there wasn't collusion? or are you just playing devils advocate 

 

Can you prove there wasn’t collusion against Tebow?

It was just nobody thought he was worth the headache.

Same with Kap

They have to prove collusion, not the other way around

[Rangers9]

16 hours ago, Bugg said:

But his backup QB craps the bed every time out, and he is about to watch his otherwise pretty good playoff ready team not make the playoffs at all. Same thing with the Texans. 

Hundley really hasn't played before this. A few have but most young Qbs need at least 12 starts to begin playing well. So you have in Kap an experienced NFL Qb and you could probably devise a simple offense for him to take over and play right away. Kap did lose his job in SF but actually played ok to well last year when he started after they benched Gabbert. But the NFL owner's desire to blackball him is stronger then their desire for their team to win. And there are a lot of openings for experienced Qbs in the NFL right now. 

[jetrider]

1 minute ago, Rangers9 said:

Hundley really hasn't played before this. A few have but most young Qbs need at least 12 starts to begin playing well. So you have in Kap an experienced NFL Qb and you could probably devise a simple offense for him to take over and play right away. Kap did lose his job in SF but actually played ok to well last year when he started after they benched Gabbert. But the NFL owner's desire to blackball him is stronger then their desire for their team to win. And there are a lot of openings for experienced Qbs in the NFL right now. 

What about a self-absorbed diva whose conduct is detrimental to a team? Why does the league owe one player preferential treatment is what I'd like to know. Physical talent isn't enough when a player's character fails. Football is entertainment. Owners are in show biz to entertain fans, sell tickets, team merchandise, expand the fanbase, and send fans home with a smile. The NFL owner's desire to please fans is stronger than their desire to serve one self-important azzhole.

[Jetsfan80]

31 minutes ago, jetrider said:

What about a self-absorbed diva whose conduct is detrimental to a team? Why does the league owe one player preferential treatment is what I'd like to know. Physical talent isn't enough when a player's character fails. Football is entertainment. Owners are in show biz to entertain fans, sell tickets, team merchandise, expand the fanbase, and send fans home with a smile. The NFL owner's desire to please fans is stronger than their desire to serve one self-important azzhole.

 

Yes but at some point, Kaepernick NOT being on a roster caused more of a distraction than it would be if he WERE on one.  9 weeks into the season and this is still a major talking point.  No one can force any NFL teams to do anything, but acting like the league is innocent in all of this is faulty.  They've botched this at every turn.

The NBA, by comparison, has an even higher % of African Americans, yet aren't having the same issues.  Why?  They said from the start they require players to stand for the anthem, BUT at the same time, fully encourage their players to say whatever they want about social issues.  It's been a clear, united message by the league, and the players know they're supported there.  Not so in the NFL. 

[Rangers9]

35 minutes ago, jetrider said:

What about a self-absorbed diva whose conduct is detrimental to a team? Why does the league owe one player preferential treatment is what I'd like to know. Physical talent isn't enough when a player's character fails. Football is entertainment. Owners are in show biz to entertain fans, sell tickets, team merchandise, expand the fanbase, and send fans home with a smile. The NFL owner's desire to please fans is stronger than their desire to serve one self-important azzhole.

That's your opinion. Which is not enough to blackball a qualified player. Some people think he's a good guy. In other words even people you don't like deserve to be allowed to make a living. 

[jetrider]

1 minute ago, Rangers9 said:

That's your opinion. Which is not enough to blackball a qualified player. Some people think he's a good guy. In other words even people you don't like deserve to be allowed to make a living. 

Bullfark. He can earn a living elsewhere. Owners have the right to protect their brand and control their product. 

Now if you'll excuse me, I have Geragos on the other line. I'm suing every employer who didn't hire me because I didn't meet all criteria. 

That's called discrimination and collusion because they all required the same industry standards.

It's unfair and I deserve to be on their payroll and force myself upon them.

[Matt39]

31 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Yes but at some point, Kaepernick NOT being on a roster caused more of a distraction than it would be if he WERE on one.  9 weeks into the season and this is still a major talking point.  No one can force any NFL teams to do anything, but acting like the league is innocent in all of this is faulty.  They've botched this at every turn.

The NBA, by comparison, has an even higher % of African Americans, yet aren't having the same issues.  Why?  They said from the start they require players to stand for the anthem, BUT at the same time, fully encourage their players to say whatever they want about social issues.  It's been a clear, united message by the league, and the players know they're supported there.  Not so in the NFL. 

Sure, if they agree with them. If someone came out as Pro-Life or whatever, it'd be defcon 3.

[bitonti]

19 hours ago, Beerfish said:

 

At this point I'd be fine with getting rid of the anthems totally.  Then you can kneel any time you want.

1

the anthems were played during WWII and on July 4. they kept that tradition but it wasn't always that way. there's no technical reason why the anthem needs to be played 

Now the league gets paid by the Army for rolling out the huge flag 

If we are really being serious doing something every week that used to be special as a routine just cheapens the special activity. 

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, Obrien2Toon said:

Can you prove there wasn’t collusion against Tebow?

It was just nobody thought he was worth the headache.

Same with Kap

They have to prove collusion, not the other way around

the collusion was in favor of tebow. Hey everyone look at this guy who can't throw. But I believe the same things he believes, let's draft him in rd 1 

tebow is an example of owners employing QB's regardless of skill level. if anything it helps Kaeps case. Tebow got employed but he didn't? 

[Matt39]

Just now, bitonti said:

the collusion was in favor of tebow. Hey everyone look at this guy who can't throw. But I believe the same things he believes, let's draft him in rd 1 

tebow is an example of owners employing QB's regardless of skill level. if anything it helps Kaeps case. Tebow got employed but he didn't? 

the only way either is actually proved is if there's an email chain among the 32 owners and Goodell explicitly saying dont sign Kapernick or we need Tebow on a team.

[jetrider]

23 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Yes but at some point, Kaepernick NOT being on a roster caused more of a distraction than it would be if he WERE on one.  9 weeks into the season and this is still a major talking point.  No one can force any NFL teams to do anything, but acting like the league is innocent in all of this is faulty.  They've botched this at every turn.

The NBA, by comparison, has an even higher % of African Americans, yet aren't having the same issues.  Why?  They said from the start they require players to stand for the anthem, BUT at the same time, fully encourage their players to say whatever they want about social issues.  It's been a clear, united message by the league, and the players know they're supported there.  Not so in the NFL. 

The NFL has rules and fines for every anal-retentive thing imaginable. From socks to shoes to language on the field, etc. They should ban political activism from the workplace. Do that stuff elsewhere.

The correct move for Kaepernick is to lay low quietly for a year like Incognito did. Wait for a team to call him when they feel he matured some and is ready to return with his head on straight. Just like Incognito. But no, ego-driven Kaepernick only knows power moves and manipulation. Every move he makes proves he isn't ready or worthy of an NFL paycheck. 

Acting like the protest wasn't about Kaep losing his job to white boy Gabbert in preseason is faulty. 

[bitonti]

6 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

the only way either is actually proved is if there's an email chain among the 32 owners and Goodell explicitly saying dont sign Kapernick or we need Tebow on a team.

they don't need all 32 owners (31 and the city of green bay wisconsin btw) they just need a text between 2 owners and these guys are such egotistical tech dinosaurs, i wouldn't bet against them finding the evidence they need.  

[bitonti]

5 minutes ago, jetrider said:

  They should ban political activism from the workplace. Do that stuff elsewhere. 

 

the same could be said about being paid to roll out a 200-foot flag before every game, no matter how minor the game.

like the troops need to be honored before Cleveland vs San Francisco.

It's nationalism and that's a form of activism too. The league can't shove flags in everyone's mouth on one hand and then ban anthem protest on the other. It's unAMerican on about a dozen levels. 

[Jetsfan80]

@jetsons you just gonna passive aggressively neg rep every one of my posts in this thread, or are you going to add to the conversation?

[jetrider]

36 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the same could be said about being paid to roll out a 200-foot flag before every game, no matter how minor the game.

like the troops need to be honored before Cleveland vs San Francisco.

It's nationalism and that's a form of activism too. The league can't shove flags in everyone's mouth on one hand and then ban anthem protest on the other. It's unAMerican on about a dozen levels. 

The government can't restrict speech under the First Amendment but employers can. Players are employees.

Cleveland supplied submarines and bomber parts during WWII and San Francisco Bay was a major shipyard during WWII.

Americans from coast to coast worked hard for our freedom and died for our freedom. 

There was and always will be important life beyond your local pizzeria, bit.

[peebag]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

they don't need all 32 owners (31 and the city of green bay wisconsin btw) they just need a text between 2 owners and these guys are such egotistical tech dinosaurs, i wouldn't bet against them finding the evidence they need.  

Why would they even need to communicate between themselves on this?  These cats aren't dummies - they've seen the reaction by the public.  I think they would come to the same conclusion as most people: Kap is bad for business.

[Philc1]

10 minutes ago, jetrider said:

The government can't restrict speech under the First Amendment but employers can. Players are employees.

Cleveland supplied submarines and bomber parts during WWII and San Francisco Bay was a major shipyard during WWII.

Americans from coast to coast worked hard for our freedom and died for our freedom. 

There was and always will be important life beyond your local pizzeria, bit.

There has to be language in the CBA restricting Anthem protests.  Until then Goodell has no way to suspend or find any players who sit for the anthem

 

 

[jetrider]

2 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

There has to be language in the CBA restricting Anthem protests.  Until then Goodell has no way to suspend or find any players who sit for the anthem

Kaep wasn't suspended or fined. He walked away from $14.5M and the door slammed behind him.

[bitonti]

13 minutes ago, jetrider said:

The government can't restrict speech under the First Amendment but employers can. Players are employees.

Cleveland supplied submarines and bomber parts during WWII and San Francisco Bay was a major shipyard during WWII.

Americans from coast to coast worked hard for our freedom and died for our freedom. 

There was and always will be important life beyond your local pizzeria, bit.

 

Look im not against honoring the troops but i'll say it again if you do something over and over it becomes less special. Like Thursday Night Football. 

and side note the anthem itself is basically unsingable.

Did you know there's a third verse that either mentions slaves or honors their death (depending on the interpretation) 

https://www.snopes.com/2016/08/29/star-spangled-banner-and-slavery/

 

it's time we chose a new anthem like Real American by Rick Derringer 

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/09/six-new-national-anthems-that-would-be-better-than.html

 

 

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, jetrider said:

Kaep wasn't suspended or fined. He walked away from $14.5M and the door slammed behind him.

No he was about to get cut from the 49ers and it had nothing to do with the protest

 

and the point I was making was the nfl has no legal basis for punishing players for sitting during the national anthem — not even as a private entity because the players are unionized and have a CBA

[jetrider]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

Look im not against honoring the troops but i'll say it again if you do something over and over it becomes less special. Like Thursday Night Football. 

and side note the anthem itself is basically unsingable.

Did you know there's a third verse that either mentions slaves or honors their death (depending on the interpretation) 

https://www.snopes.com/2016/08/29/star-spangled-banner-and-slavery/

 

it's time we chose a new anthem like Real American by Rick Derringer 

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/09/six-new-national-anthems-that-would-be-better-than.html

It's about tradition not hipster music.

I love Rick Derringer, seen him many times, met him in Hollywood and Marina Del Rey.

Went to the late Indo-Chinese Refugee concert at Palladium NYC. One of my all-time faves. 

[BigO]

3 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

So its not his fault. Everyone else is too blame. Blah blah blah. Thats the same mantra everyone else is spewing now. The guy had one win as a starter. The only reason his stats were halfway decent was because they came at a time when the Niners were playing from behind. You know in a league were players with suspect character who can play at a high level are signed without regard for that suspect character how can  Kaepernicks protest be regarded as the reason why he is not on a team? If he could still play or even showed flashes of it he would be starting or on a roster. Do I have to give the numerous examples of guys who have screwed up but were given a pass because they were good at football? Hell Ray Lewis is the prime example. DUI's, spousal abuse, assault, are just a few of the infractions that have been ignored because the guy could play. No if Kaepernick was even half the player he was in that Super Bowl he would at least be on an NFL roster or maybe even starting.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah BLAH 

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, jetrider said:

It's about tradition not hipster music.

1

it's actually about entertainment. don't ever forget that. The opera sells season tickets too. the difference is that if the tenor sucks i can go get my money back 

 

i don't think it's such a hot take to say the anthem is boring and unsingable. if we are going to do something every week for the rest of our lives it should at least be fun. 

[BigO]

3 minutes ago, jetrider said:

It's about tradition not hipster music.

I love Rick Derringer, seen him many times, met him in Hollywood and Marina Del Rey.

Went to the late Indo-Chinese Refugee concert at Palladium NYC. One of my all-time faves. 

Rick Derringer lol going way back homie - drinks on me at Roseland!

[MaxAF]

Kap can stand on his head and spit nickels, or kneel, or squat or whatever. If I'm a team owner, which I'm not I wouldn't sign him because I think he stinks as a player plus or minus nothing. Team owners want 2 things: to win and fill seats. He had his shot many times over, came into the league with high expectations and performed well. So did RGIII. Wheres he right now. So he can't make his money on the field and he's trying to make it in the courts as a social martyr.

Good grief.

[bitonti]

47 minutes ago, MaxAF said:

Team owners want 2 things: to win and fill seats.

 

and the first part is optional 

[JetBlue]

On 11/8/2017 at 12:56 PM, ScarletKnight89 said:

I really wish Kaepernick would just go away. Nobody wants him anymore. This happens to QB's at times. RGIII doesn't have a job, Tim Tebow disappeared, Cutler was retired until Tannehill got hurt. Hell, our own Josh McCown was out of the league for a short while.

This guy opted out of his contract and now is crying over the fact that nobody wants to sign him. Nobody has to sign him. He's not guaranteed a job in the NFL.

Difference is he is better than 90 % of the back ups in this league probably a few of the starters as well.  He is not guaranteed a job but collusion is illegal and it is clear to even Stevie Wonder that the NFL colluded to keep him out of the league. 

[ScarletKnight89]

31 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Difference is he is better than 90 % of the back ups in this league probably a few of the starters as well.  He is not guaranteed a job but collusion is illegal and it is clear to even Stevie Wonder that the NFL colluded to keep him out of the league. 

But again, show me proof of collusion. If his team has evidence than he has a fair gripe.

Talent alone has never, and will never automatically get someone a job. There are plenty of factors that go into signings.

I would bet most teams don't want him sitting on the sidelines all season and having their HC be asked nonstop questions about a guy who doesn't even play unless the starter gets hurt. He's a distraction.

[nyjunc]

6 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Hundley really hasn't played before this. A few have but most young Qbs need at least 12 starts to begin playing well. So you have in Kap an experienced NFL Qb and you could probably devise a simple offense for him to take over and play right away. Kap did lose his job in SF but actually played ok to well last year when he started after they benched Gabbert. But the NFL owner's desire to blackball him is stronger then their desire for their team to win. And there are a lot of openings for experienced Qbs in the NFL right now. 

he's not being blackballed, he's not good enough to overcome his off field shenanigans which include his praise of Castro, not voting, cops as pigs socks, calling cops slavecatchers, donating to cop killer charity, having his GF tweet out the photoshopped slave/master photo w/ Ray lewis, etc...

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

the anthems were played during WWII and on July 4. they kept that tradition but it wasn't always that way. there's no technical reason why the anthem needs to be played 

Now the league gets paid by the Army for rolling out the huge flag 

If we are really being serious doing something every week that used to be special as a routine just cheapens the special activity. 

The anthem is part of sports, it has always been played before games though teams weren't always on the field when it was played except for Nat'l TV games until 9/11 happened.  It's a great start to any game, it's not political it's about appreciating our Country.

the league doesn't get paid, they did get paid for military ads(not for the anthem itself) during the anthem and pregame festivities and it was exposed and ended a few years ago.

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

Look im not against honoring the troops but i'll say it again if you do something over and over it becomes less special. Like Thursday Night Football. 

and side note the anthem itself is basically unsingable.

Did you know there's a third verse that either mentions slaves or honors their death (depending on the interpretation) 

https://www.snopes.com/2016/08/29/star-spangled-banner-and-slavery/

 

it's time we chose a new anthem like Real American by Rick Derringer 

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/09/six-new-national-anthems-that-would-be-better-than.html

 

 

depending on interpretation is the key part of that sentence and even if you do believe it is racist- do we sing the 3rd verse? did anyone know about that verse until this? Our Nat'l anthem is our Nat'l anthem, it's ludicrous to think about changing it.  People need to paly the victim card over everything, just b/c something you interpret is bad happens to you doesn't make it racist/sexist or anything-ist.  the madness must end at some point. Owners want to win and that's it, they'd hire Hitler if he could lead a team to the SB.  The bottom line on keep is he just isn't good enough to overcome the circus he would bring.  If he was he'd be in uniform and wouldn't have missed a game.

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, JetBlue said:

Difference is he is better than 90 % of the back ups in this league probably a few of the starters as well.  He is not guaranteed a job but collusion is illegal and it is clear to even Stevie Wonder that the NFL colluded to keep him out of the league. 

but he's not a difference maker, you may think he's better than 90% opf backups and some starters but that doesn't mean he's a better fit on certain teams than those guys.  He certainly wouldn't be a better fit than McCown has been for us though he is more talented than McCown. It's never just about talent.

[jetrider]

6 hours ago, Philc1 said:

No he was about to get cut from the 49ers and it had nothing to do with the protest

 

and the point I was making was the nfl has no legal basis for punishing players for sitting during the national anthem — not even as a private entity because the players are unionized and have a CBA

!. But Kaep didn't know that when he opted out

2. I didn't say anything about punishment. I was suggesting new rules going forward