To those that don't think Cousins is that good

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Mitchell Trubisky, drafted #2 overall last year, signed a four year contract worth $29M total - a far cry from the $29M/year that Cousins is probably looking at. 

it's still for over 7 million per season.  the point is you can get a win now qb for merely 3.5x the cost of a top tier rookie.  how much is waiting at least a season before the guy is nfl ready worth?  if you look at from that perspective then the nfl ready rookie will cost say, 28 million over 3 seasons so the gap narrows a bit.

[rangerous]

7 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

Cousins simply isn't worth being paid as a top 5 QB because he just isn't one.period.

If he were, then why would the Redskins then let such a hard to get franchise QB walk? 

i'm not sure if worth has anything to do with this.  in the grand scheme of things, none of the most highly paid nfl players are worth what they get but i digress.  the jet's only strength at the moment is the cap space and they will most likely have to overpay to get the guy they want.

[slats]

1 minute ago, rangerous said:

it's still for over 7 million per season.  the point is you can get a win now qb for merely 3.5x the cost of a top tier rookie.  how much is waiting at least a season before the guy is nfl ready worth?  if you look at from that perspective then the nfl ready rookie will cost say, 28 million over 3 seasons so the gap narrows a bit.

A rookie QB is a lottery ticket. Could be a true franchise guy, could be a bust. I could talk myself out of every one of the top five QBs coming out this year. Could probably talk myself into them, too. I'm a pragmatist at heart, too, so I get the draw of a Kirk Cousins. But then again, Kirk Cousins' statistical doppelganger is Matt Stafford, another guy who, frankly, I was never all that impressed with. 

So for significantly less money do you take a chance on potentially landing THE GUY? I don't have the answer. It's a tough question. But a professional scouting department should be able to make that call, I'd like to think. 

[legler82]

4 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I think most of us just don't think he's worthy of being made the highest paid player in the league, and more importantly, don't think he's worth allocating a third (ish?) of our salary cap [space] for. 

I don't think there are many people who would sincerely deny the fact that he is a good QB. Of course, there is a lot of debate about how good he is.

 

Fixed it for you!

[Apache 51]

Cousins sucks....

[JohnnyLV]

4 hours ago, 20andOut said:

2. He is in the top half of the league as starter over last three years. 

Based on what? Stats that he has compiled. He is 26-30 as a starter with an offensive head coach, and OC that made it to HC and more talent than we have on defense. And before you say it's a team game look at the difference Watson Garopollo and Rodgers made to their wins and losses. By the stat that actually matters Cousins is below average. And you want to pay a Top Half QB the most money in the NFL? Where is this madness coming from?

[Pac]

15 minutes ago, slats said:

A rookie QB is a lottery ticket. Could be a true franchise guy, could be a bust. I could talk myself out of every one of the top five QBs coming out this year. Could probably talk myself into them, too. I'm a pragmatist at heart, too, so I get the draw of a Kirk Cousins. But then again, Kirk Cousins' statistical doppelganger is Matt Stafford, another guy who, frankly, I was never all that impressed with. 

So for significantly less money do you take a chance on potentially landing THE GUY? I don't have the answer. It's a tough question. But a professional scouting department should be able to make that call, I'd like to think. 

The problem is the professional scouting department could identify 4 QB's they deem 4 star worthy and they can all be gone by the time they pick.

If the Jets had the 1st or 2nd pick I wouldn't necessarily care about signing Cousins..  but they don't.

[Joejet]

3 hours ago, jetrider said:

Cousins wants to play for a winner. If he was anything special he'd make any team a winner. With his comments he isolates himself from the rest of the team and indirectly judges/blames the team separately. Josh Allen says he'll take a loser and turn the team around. That's the correct attitude. Cousins almost sounds like a diva though a very generic vanilla bean diva. No idea when he became the latest QB sensation. I couldn't care less about Kirk Cousins.

So are you saying we should draft Allen because he says he’ll turn a losing team around?

[SenorGato]

22 minutes ago, BrickTamland said:

I guess this is the only way to deal with them. 

Pretty much. JN Math has deemed the $100+ should be spend on guys like ASJ, Mo Claiborne, and Bilal Powell for a collective $20+ is a high upside ceiling potential and smart play. Where $30+ million on the knees of Robinson and Bridgewater is smart and clever because it’s avoiding Cousins by himself at the price. Generally speaking the philosophy here seems to be buy or keep broken and/or terrible players because no one will want lots of money from the Jets except those guys, sell their upside potential ceiling through development, draft a rookie QB, and wait for the next coach and GM to save the day and make it all work. To me it’s so ******* batsh*t insane BEFORE we get to stuff like why backloading is bad for players (and teams really) or how to read a tweet that it might be best to play in shallow water this month, yes. 

[Jetsplayer21]

1 minute ago, Pac said:

The problem is the professional scouting department could identify 4 QB's they deem 4 star worthy and they can all be gone by the time they pick.

If the Jets had the 1st or 2nd pick I wouldn't necessarily care about signing Cousins..  but they don't.

Exactly. The Moral victory HC thought it was as important as wining the Super Bowl that we get atleast 5 wins?. Only 3 and we are picking 2nd, but poor Todd Bowles would be upset all offseason knowing we didn’t get his 5

[JohnnyLV]

18 minutes ago, slats said:

A rookie QB is a lottery ticket. Could be a true franchise guy, could be a bust. I could talk myself out of every one of the top five QBs coming out this year. Could probably talk myself into them, too. I'm a pragmatist at heart, too, so I get the draw of a Kirk Cousins. But then again, Kirk Cousins' statistical doppelganger is Matt Stafford, another guy who, frankly, I was never all that impressed with. 

So for significantly less money do you take a chance on potentially landing THE GUY? I don't have the answer. It's a tough question. But a professional scouting department should be able to make that call, I'd like to think. 

I dont think its a tough question at all. Two questions: Accept mediocrity? Sign Cousins Try to build long term winning team? Draft

I HATE the mediocrity merry go round.

 

[slats]

9 minutes ago, Pac said:

The problem is the professional scouting department could identify 4 QB's they deem 4 star worthy and they can all be gone by the time they pick.

If the Jets had the 1st or 2nd pick I wouldn't necessarily care about signing Cousins..  but they don't.

I think the Jets could land the third pick in the draft pretty affordably. If they love three guys, that's doable. Especially in real time if their #1 choice is there. They should be talking to Indy now about a potential desire to move up and what it might take. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

4 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I think most of us just don't think he's worthy of being made the highest paid player in the league, and more importantly, don't think he's worth allocating a third (ish?) of our salary cap for. 

I don't think there are many people who would sincerely deny the fact that he is a good QB. Of course, there is a lot of debate about how good he is.

 

If we draft another bust at QB while Cousins is going to pro bowls, that saved cap space won't mean much. 

We have a chance to get a guy that's AT LEAST very good. He may be great in the right situation. You can't pass on that because he may get overpaid by a few bucks. Most QBs are overpaid. We have plenty of young players and high draft picks this year to offset the cousins contract.

[slats]

6 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Pretty much. JN Math has deemed the $100+ should be spend on guys like ASJ, Mo Claiborne, and Bilal Powell for a collective $20+ is a high upside ceiling potential and smart play. Where $30+ million on the knees of Robinson and Bridgewater is smart and clever because it’s avoiding Cousins by himself at the price. Generally speaking the philosophy here seems to be buy or keep broken and/or terrible players because no one will want lots of money from the Jets except those guys, sell their upside potential ceiling through development, draft a rookie QB, and wait for the next coach and GM to save the day and make it all work. To me it’s so ******* batsh*t insane BEFORE we get to stuff like why backloading is bad for players (and teams really) or how to read a tweet that it might be best to play in shallow water this month, yes. 

I've looked this post over and, yes, it qualifies as a completely absurd rant. 

[Apache 51]

2 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Based on what? Stats that he has compiled. He is 26-30 as a starter with an offensive head coach, and OC that made it to HC and more talent than we have on defense. And before you say it's a team game look at the difference Watson Garopollo and Rodgers made to their wins and losses. By the stat that actually matters Cousins is below average. And you want to pay a Top Half QB the most money in the NFL? Where is this madness coming from?

Other than this year aside from Philly he has played in what was once the toughest division in the NFL but has been the weakest during his time there and has achieved almost nothing.

[Pac]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

I think the Jets could land the third pick in the draft pretty affordably. If they love three guys, that's doable. Especially in real time if their #1 choice is there. The should be talking to Indy now about a potential desire to move up and what it might take. 

If we don't land Cousins this is what I'm hoping for but I'd rather not get into a bidding war for the 3rd pick when those 2nd rounders could be gems.  I don't think swapping picks and throwing in 1 2nd rounder will do it..  Someone is going to offer more.

[Pac]

12 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Exactly. The Moral victory HC thought it was as important as wining the Super Bowl that we get atleast 5 wins?. Only 3 and we are picking 2nd, but poor Todd Bowles would be upset all offseason knowing we didn’t get his 5

I agree with a lot of your posts but not this one..  I wouldn't want a coach or players who are ok with tanking.

We should actually all be pretty happy that they lost 3 VERY winnable games and Bryce Petty had to finish the year out.  If those don't happen we're talking about what to do with the 18th pick.

[JoJoTownsell1]

43 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

Cousins simply isn't worth being paid as a top 5 QB because he just isn't one.period.

If he were, then why would the Redskins then let such a hard to get franchise QB walk? 

How many playoff games have the redskins won the last decade? Why are you so sure they know what they're doing?

Meanwhile, they just paid him like 50 million the last two years so not sure they think he sucks.

[rex-n-effect]

Cousins is good but not great. If he was a great QB no team would get rid of him for Alex Smith--another guy who is  good but not great. Cousins is not worth what he will command but he will command it because: (1) QB contracts always go up; and (2) he is the best FA QB by a mile. 

I've never been hot on him and would rather see us pluck a franchise QB out of the draft but I would be okay with him coming here simply because I don't have confidence that this coaching group has the ability to coach up a young QB. They've failed twice even adjusting for what they were given to work with. Is Cousins and a huge hit to the salary cap better than rolling the dice on a draft pick and another year of McCown? There's definitely a good argument for it.

[slats]

2 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

If we draft another bust at QB while Cousins is going to pro bowls, that saved cap space won't mean much. 

We have a chance to get a guy that's AT LEAST very good. He may be great in the right situation. You can't pass on that because he may get overpaid by a few bucks. Most QBs are overpaid. We have plenty of young players and high draft picks this year to offset the cousins contract.

The flip side is seeing a guy who they could've drafted becoming a true franchise QB at a much lower cost while Cousins continues to be a better than average guy who doesn't get them over the hump for huge dollars. Cousins is the safe move, probably saves Mac and Bowles' jobs. I really don't care if they save their jobs by putting together consistent 9/10 win teams. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

Remember when Brandon Marshall and Eric Decker and Nick Mangold and Todd Bowles all wanted Ryan Fitzpatrick back?...why would they do that if he sucks? 

Because they were old and at the end of their careers and didn't want Geno or a random rookie that was going to take years to develop. But nice try.

[slats]

4 minutes ago, Pac said:

If we don't land Cousins this is what I'm hoping for but I'd rather not get into a bidding war for the 3rd pick when those 2nd rounders could be gems.  I don't think swapping picks and throwing in 1 2nd rounder will do it..  Someone is going to offer more.

1

Perhaps, but the Jets can offer dropping only as low as #6, which could be huge if Indy has their eyes on one or two specific players. That #6 pick could be a lot more attractive than both of Buffalo's first rounders, say. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 minute ago, slats said:

The flip side is seeing a guy who they could've drafted becoming a true franchise QB at a much lower cost while Cousins continues to be a better than average guy who doesn't get them over the hump for huge dollars. Cousins is the safe move, probably saves Mac and Bowles' jobs. I really don't care if they save their jobs by putting together consistent 9/10 win teams. 

True. But cousins isn't Alex Smith, at least in my opinion, he's not a safe choice. He's a guy that passed for 4900 yards with Garcon, Jackson and Reed two years ago. 

We'd do backflips if a kid we drafted ever put up those numbers.. So unless you think cousins has peaked at 28, I think the signing will pay off AND we get a chance to draft a pro bowl caliber edge rusher at 6 or Barkley or an o-lineman or the best available safety.....

[jetspenguin]

4 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

If Cousins isn't that good, why have von Miller and Patrick Peterson recently come out lobbying for their teams to get him?

I understand those people that don't want to use cap space or prefer to draft a kid but those of you that simply don't think he's that good seem to be at odds with some of the best defensive players in the league that should know better than any of us

Maybe they just look at the rest of the options and feel that he is the best of the lot. They are a little older and dont want to start over with a rookie and the vets comparatively arent mind blowing. He is the best of the bunch for players that dont want a rookie. 

[New York Mick]

He’d be the 3rd best QB in Jet history (no Farve) barring injury. 

[jetspenguin]

4 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

Simple. Because they're at the end of their prime years and wanna win NOW. They don't got time to wait for a rookie QB. 

lol beat me too it

[Jetsplayer21]

29 minutes ago, Pac said:

I agree with a lot of your posts but not this one..  I wouldn't want a coach or players who are ok with tanking.

We should actually all be pretty happy that they lost 3 VERY winnable games and Bryce Petty had to finish the year out.  If those don't happen we're talking about what to do with the 18th pick.

I didn’t mean tanking per say. We all knew the reality of this season. Why we didn’t spend anything, and traded 1 of our top D players for a valuable future pick. We got lucky with kearse working out well, but he was a throw in as he was 5th recieving option in Seattle.   We could have actually had a legit shot at the playoffs had to pursued signing win now guys. We had plenty of cap no? We teased at the far outside shot of making it, but that was never realistic. Instead of coddling hackenberg, I would have played him to see what we had for the future. Since we already decided not to go all in this yr anyway. Saving ton of cap, trading Richardson.. Why just showcase Josh McCown Who has no future here? This was the yr to let hack and petty play. Just to make sure they weren’t the future. Before petty came in, some still believed he could play. We could have atleast knew if they were capable of being a #2 in 18. We got the answer on 1, but only due to injury. I hate injury on any player, but had McCown not got hurt, we likely win atleast 1 more game. Then we really wouldn’t be in a position to draft 1 of the 4 if we miss out on cousins. Nobody wants to tank, I understand. We all wish jets tried to win but still lost lol

[Viermoo]

I am simply amazed by the people who don’t want Cousins. Free agent QBs of his caliber never appear on the open market. Never! If the Jets get him they can still sign additional free agents, save their picks and draft great players. He’s young, entering his prime and the Jets could afford to surround him with talent so it doesn’t make sense not to sign him and give him big money. When was the last time the Jets had a top ten QB? Namath???

[JohnnyLV]

Just now, Viermoo said:

I am simply amazed by the people who don’t want Cousins. Free agent QBs of his caliber never appear on the open market. Never! If the Jets get him they can still sign additional free agents, save their picks and draft great players. He’s young, entering his prime and the Jets could afford to surround him with talent so it doesn’t make sense not to sign him and give him big money. When was the last time the Jets had a top ten QB? Namath???

He is not close to a Top 10 QB. Not even remotely.

[JoJoTownsell1]

Just now, Viermoo said:

I am simply amazed by the people who don’t want Cousins. Free agent QBs of his caliber never appear on the open market. Never! If the Jets get him they can still sign additional free agents, save their picks and draft great players. He’s young, entering his prime and the Jets could afford to surround him with talent so it doesn’t make sense not to sign him and give him big money. When was the last time the Jets had a top ten QB? Namath???

It's the same guys that would have passed on Drew Brees because why would the chargers draft rivers if they thought Brees was healthy and really good.

[JoJoTownsell1]

Just now, johnnysd said:

He is not close to a Top 10 QB. Not even remotely.

So after last season when he threw for 4900 yards you had him ranked like 22nd?

[Integrity28]

Also add the FACT that he wore green and white in college to the list of legit reasons why he good.

[SenorGato]

30 minutes ago, slats said:

I've looked this post over and, yes, it qualifies as a completely absurd rant. 

Lol I wanted to rip this but then I read the post. The first half is comprehensible only if you are polite and patient. 

OTOH nail on head from “Generally speaking...” on THO, like super deadly accurate.

[SpartanJet]

4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Also add the FACT that he wore green and white in college to the list of legit reasons why he good.

I agree!

[Jetsplayer21]

11 minutes ago, Viermoo said:

I am simply amazed by the people who don’t want Cousins. Free agent QBs of his caliber never appear on the open market. Never! If the Jets get him they can still sign additional free agents, save their picks and draft great players. He’s young, entering his prime and the Jets could afford to surround him with talent so it doesn’t make sense not to sign him and give him big money. When was the last time the Jets had a top ten QB? Namath???

This is true. Not even mid B tier qbs like cousins normal hit the open market. Which is why he and his agent will look to take advantage of teams wanting him. We have the cap now, but how about in 3 years when we have all these young former 1st round D stars looking to cash in? Will get tighter. I’m not against cousins coming. I just feel Jets will have to grossly over pay to get him here. Instead of drafting a top rookie and controlling pretty much his salary forever.