To those that don't think Cousins is that good

[BrickTamland]

6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

 

You can continue to act like a dismissive, arrogant know-it-all, but the reality is that spending 100 million dollars to improve the 21 other positions on offense/defense, coupled with drafting a QB in the first round, is a viable alternative to making Kirk Cousins the highest paid player in the league.

I dont know if they can get 21 new players. Maybe 20. Winners

[slimjasi]

6 minutes ago, BrickTamland said:

I dont know if they can get 21 new players. Maybe 20. Winners

To me, "improving the 21 other positions" doesn't literally mean getting 21 players, it means improving the rest of the roster, overall. It means making the rest of the team better, collectively. 

I think a basic question for me is, what would you rather have for the Jets this off-season: 30(ish) million dollars of extra cap space and a top 6 QB draft pick, or Kirk Cousins?

[BigO]

3 hours ago, slimjasi said:

While your silly, snarky comments are often amusing, they rarely further the discussion in any meaningful or helpful way. 

I'm not suggesting that 60-70 million dollars, if spent wisely, isn't enough to drastically improve the team. I'm just pointing out that 30 million dollars constitutes a substantial portion of our allotted money this off-season, and spending it on a QB who is probably just inside the top 1/3 of QBs in the league is a debatable proposition. 

You can continue to act like a dismissive, arrogant know-it-all, but the reality is that spending 100 million dollars to improve the 21 other positions on offense/defense, coupled with drafting a QB in the first round, is a viable alternative to making Kirk Cousins the highest paid player in the league. 

Great post! The kitty kat must be in heat. They act up like that when their period comes. 

[BigO]

1 hour ago, SenorGato said:

The first person you responded to the 1/3 directly about was me...Here is that post:

Rotfl 

That’s not funny SenorPato ROTL ?

[Patriot Killa]

I think he is an above average quarterback and played great with the odds consistently stacked against him. I have flip flopped all year between going with a QB in the draft or signing Cousins.. I even thought we should do both on a few different occasions....I’m at the point now where I want us to win next year. I want to be excited to still see my team play in January. I want to be able to tell other friends who are fans of different team , yep, we have a great shot at whipping your ass in this next round. ...Cousins and a few other moves makes that possible in my opinion. I also love Baker Mayfield/Rosen/Darnold .....but nobody is wrong for not believing in the development of a QB when it comes to NYJ. I just want to win, guys. And the salary cap really isn’t an issue. It’s really boiling down to value and what not. I find that pointless when the value will continue to go up and up and up each year. Just get me a good QB. That’s all I care about.

[prime21]

4 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

...but nobody is wrong for not believing in the development of a QB when it comes to NYJ. 

I don't think that if they had a better QB coach that they would actually be better.  some guys are really just meant to be 2nd or 3rd stringers their entire career.

[slimjasi]

6 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

I think he is an above average quarterback and played great with the odds consistently stacked against him. I have flip flopped all year between going with a QB in the draft or signing Cousins.. I even thought we should do both on a few different occasions....I’m at the point now where I want us to win next year. I want to be excited to still see my team play in January. I want to be able to tell other friends who are fans of different team , yep, we have a great shot at whipping your ass in this next round. ...Cousins and a few other moves makes that possible in my opinion. I also love Baker Mayfield/Rosen/Darnold .....but nobody is wrong for not believing in the development of a QB when it comes to NYJ. I just want to win, guys. And the salary cap really isn’t an issue. It’s really boiling down to value and what not. I find that pointless when the value will continue to go up and up and up each year. Just get me a good QB. That’s all I care about.

I think this is totally fair. 

I'm will be utterly fascinated to see how the Jets handle this. 

[Patriot Killa]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I think this is totally fair. 

I'm will be utterly fascinated to see how the Jets handle this. 

A lot of different routes they can take this year.

 

that sort of scares me lmao.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

A lot of different routes they can take this year.

 

that sort of scares me lmao.

Yea, same. They could royally F this up. They could also build a sick team. It's gonna be fun/scary for sure. 

[Pcola]

Yes, there are multiple options but because of the timing of free agency, it’s not as simple as Plan A, Plan B, etc.

Clearly, Darnold or Rosen would be the top 2 choices.  Unfortunately,we are picking 6 with 3 teams in front of us getting new QBs this offseason.  It’s not like any of these teams are willing to trade down for anything right now.  It’s just too early.

So because free agency opens up 6 weeks before the draft, the Jets have no choice but to consider signing Cousins.

Like I said in this post, spending $100M on a roster to surround Darnold or Rosen would be the best possible scenario.  But spending $100M on a roster to surround Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield, or Mason Rudolph doesn’t give us a better situation than signing Cousins.  Drafting a rookie QB other than Darnold or Rosen doesn’t guarantee that we end up with a better QB than what’s currently on our roster.  All of these guys have major questions about their developability. 

So in order to make that work, you are probably looking at McCown starting, and Macc and Bowles here for at least two more seasons which means 9 consecutive years without the playoffs and starting over again at HC, GM, and QB in 2020.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Pcola said:

Yes, there are multiple options but because of the timing of free agency, it’s not as simple as Plan A, Plan B, etc.

Clearly, Darnold or Rosen would be the top 2 choices.  Unfortunately,we are picking 6 with 3 teams in front of us getting new QBs this offseason.  It’s not like any of these teams are willing to trade down for anything right now.  It’s just too early.

So because free agency opens up 6 weeks before the draft, the Jets have no choice but to consider signing Cousins.

Like I said in this post, spending $100M on a roster to surround Darnold or Rosen would be the best possible scenario.  But spending $100M on a roster to surround Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield, or Mason Rudolph doesn’t give us a better situation than signing Cousins.  Drafting a rookie QB other than Darnold or Rosen doesn’t guarantee that we end up with a better QB than what’s currently on our roster.  All of these guys have major questions about their developability. 

So in order to make that work, you are probably looking at McCown starting, and Macc and Bowles here for at least two more seasons which means 9 consecutive years without the playoffs and starting over again at HC, GM, and QB in 2020.

This is a good post, but I would just point out that I doubt Bowles/Mac are surviving another bad year, no matter who they are starting at QB. Also, how do we know Mayfield or Allen won't be really good?

But, yes, they certainly have to (and will) vet Cousins. 

[Pcola]

Just now, slimjasi said:

This is a good post, but I would just point out that I doubt Bowles/Mac are surviving another bad year, no matter who they are starting at QB. Also, how do we know Mayfield or Allen won't be really good?

But, yes, they certainly have to (and will) vet Cousins. 

Honestly, if they draft a QB in the first, they both guarantee themselves two years.  No team is going to fire a GM a year after spending a top 6 pick on a QB.  

If they do fire Macc, what GM candidate could possibly want to come here when his HC and bad 2nd year QB are forced on him?

(Assuming bad QB if GM is fired and assuming that the Johnsons will keep the hierarchy the same with both HC and GM reporting to clueless ownership.)

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, Pcola said:

Honestly, if they draft a QB in the first, they both guarantee themselves two years.  No team is going to fire a GM a year after spending a top 6 pick on a QB.  

If they do fire Macc, what GM candidate could possibly want to come here when his HC and bad 2nd year QB are forced on him?

(Assuming bad QB if GM is fired and assuming that the Johnsons will keep the hierarchy the same with both HC and GM reporting to clueless ownership.)

I hear you, but I think the media would be pretty brutal if we were bad again next year after spending 100 million and having a top 6 pick. I think it's going to be very hard for Bowles/Mac to survive a fourth straight non-playoff year. That stuff happens with cheap organizations in small markets. It doesn't happen in New York too often, particularly not in modern times. 

And I certainly don't think they would survive a non-winning year. I think a 9-7 type of year is the worst that they can realistically do (barring catastrophic injuries). Of course, this is assuming that they bring in some legit talent and address the QB position. 

[MDL_JET]

9 minutes ago, Pcola said:

Yes, there are multiple options but because of the timing of free agency, it’s not as simple as Plan A, Plan B, etc.

Clearly, Darnold or Rosen would be the top 2 choices.  Unfortunately,we are picking 6 with 3 teams in front of us getting new QBs this offseason.  It’s not like any of these teams are willing to trade down for anything right now.  It’s just too early.

So because free agency opens up 6 weeks before the draft, the Jets have no choice but to consider signing Cousins.

Like I said in this post, spending $100M on a roster to surround Darnold or Rosen would be the best possible scenario.  But spending $100M on a roster to surround Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield, or Mason Rudolph doesn’t give us a better situation than signing Cousins.  Drafting a rookie QB other than Darnold or Rosen doesn’t guarantee that we end up with a better QB than what’s currently on our roster.  All of these guys have major questions about their developability. 

So in order to make that work, you are probably looking at McCown starting, and Macc and Bowles here for at least two more seasons which means 9 consecutive years without the playoffs and starting over again at HC, GM, and QB in 2020.

I think it is pretty simple. 

Plan A: try to sign Cousins. 

Plan B:  resign McCown, do what you can to trade up and get your QB. 

Either option you continue to spend on free agents that are under 30. Any of the first round QBs put us in a better situation. 

 

[jetrider]

 

14 hours ago, SenorGato said:

Combined zero playoff wins

The Rivers and Alex Smith are a combine 6-10 with 5 losses apiece. Throw in the bolded group and the record is 6-14 and multiple guys with no appearances.

Winners!

Chiefs have more faith in unknown Mahomes than Redskins had in Cousins. They chose to guarantee Smith $71M over tagging Cousins for $34.5M

[CanadienJetsFan]

16 hours ago, Dcat said:

Was Flacco top 5 when Ozzie made him the highest paid?

Was Stafford top 5 when Detroit did the same?

Come on.  This year's expensive QB contracts will look average in 2 years and cheap in 3-4 years.  It's cyclical.  All that matters is that the team have the cap space and resources to build around him.  Everything else is irrelevant.  All these salary comparisons among players who signed their deals years ago vs currently are pointless.  Apples to oranges.  You have to compare this year's QB contracts only with this years.  Cousins will get more than Smith.  End of story.

 But that’s my point. When you pay these mediocre quarterback’s so much of your salary cap, your team suffers.When you pay these mediocre quarterback’s so much of your salary cap, your team suffers.

[Fantasy Island]

22 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

If Cousins isn't that good, why have von Miller and Patrick Peterson recently come out lobbying for their teams to get him?

I understand those people that don't want to use cap space or prefer to draft a kid but those of you that simply don't think he's that good seem to be at odds with some of the best defensive players in the league that should know better than any of us

Would love to have Cousins, but he is not coming here.  We have nothing to offer that would be attractive to him.  Our HC is a simpleton, our stupid GM only drafts defense, we don't have have our own stadium and our best WR is looking at a suspension.  Our OL is horrible and we are in one of the toughest divisions in the NFL.  

[BigO]

51 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

 But that’s my point. When you pay these mediocre quarterback’s so much of your salary cap, your team suffers.When you pay these mediocre quarterback’s so much of your salary cap, your team suffers.

This so correct it’s got to be said twice.

[BigO]

18 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

Would love to have Cousins, but he is not coming here.  We have nothing to offer that would be attractive to him.  Our HC is a simpleton, our stupid GM only drafts defense, we don't have have our own stadium and our best WR is looking at a suspension.  Our OL is horrible and we are in one of the toughest divisions in the NFL.  

Did I write this post? Oh no. But I’ll add to it. It’s not that I wouldn’t like to have Cousins here but he would at best be a bandaid to these buffoons running this team. Surely we’d improve but not to the point of being serious contenders. Mac would have to start hitting big time on his draft picks and FA signings. NOT. Bowles would have to go and we’d have to get a seasoned coach in here. NOT. There’s just too much to rework and rebuild around a seasoned vet like Cousins. Start from the bottom up because make no illusion, we are a bottom tier team and Cousins and 100 millionnin cap space ain’t changing that. 

[Dcat]

22 hours ago, SenorGato said:

It took 5 pages for you to unveil what was secretly meant by 1/3 all along.

the suspense was killing me

[detectivekimble]

21 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Again, nice deflection, but I responded to the very first person who questioned me on what I wrote about the cap by writing:

"I wrote "1/3 (ish?)." And, to be clear, I was referring to the (approximately) 100 million dollars the team has available to spend this off-season. 

If I am wrong, please . . . enlighten me. 

(Btw, he is easily going to do better than 4 years, 100 million. So, start there."

I made it abundantly clear that I was referring to how much money we had available to spend.

To be clear, this deflection isn't very clever and doesn't go anywhere . . . 

 

 

Nice save.

No one will care about Cousins's contract when the cap is $200,000,000 in 2020.

[slimjasi]

36 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

Nice save.

No one will care about Cousins's contract when the cap is $200,000,000 in 2020.

That's true.

My concerns are more for this off-season and possibly the next. This is an extremely critical off-season to the future of this team and I sincerely believe that there is a strong case to be made for at least considering passing on Cousins. 

I think that we are a team with some interesting young players and I would love to see them grow alongside a top QB prospect and try to develop their own winning culture (although Bowles very likely has to be replaced for this to work out).

I think this approach conforms better with our current roster, and ultimately, would have the potential to give us much more "bang for our buck" in the long run.

Regardless, in the end, either plan could work out. Suffice it to say that, if we sign Cousins, I'll be pumped as hell and ready to go. 

[Philc1]

21 hours ago, jetrider said:

 

Chiefs have more faith in unknown Mahomes than Redskins had in Cousins. They chose to guarantee Smith $71M over tagging Cousins for $34.5M

Mahomes is also $135 million cheaper

[jgb]

On 2/3/2018 at 7:48 AM, jetspenguin said:

lol beat me too it

Disturbing visual.

[jetspenguin]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

Disturbing visual.

get a life

[jgb]

get a life

Wait, what? I hate it when a joke goes over my head.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[slimjasi]

On 2/3/2018 at 9:48 PM, Dcat said:

the suspense was killing me

Right. 

[pdxgreen]

I'm all for Cousins, but why not trading for Foles, then grab a QB in the second round?  Just saying, allows for Bates to work with player in his prime and still maybe bet on the future.  Spend the number 1 on Barkley in case he falls or a CB we need to replace Buster Skrine.

[nyjbuddy]

Interesting article about Kirk Cousins, written from the perspective of a free agent target for the Vikings.  I tried to remove as much of the Vikings talk as possible.  There is video break down throughout the article so the text doesn't do it justice.

https://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2018/02/vikings-must-consider-best-worst-kirk-cousins/

If you only looked at Cousins’ box score numbers like completion percentage, touchdowns, quarterback rating etc., it would be a no brainer: Sign him up. But a lot more goes into quarterback evaluation than TD:INT ratio. There are reasons why Washington hasn’t signed onto Cousins long term already and why his former GM said that he isn’t a “special” quarterback.

So where does the truth lie? Let’s have a look at his best and worst game of the year (when his supporting cast was largely healthy)…

The good

Kirk Cousins can throw the ball downfield.

Since 2015, Cousins has a 101.0 quarterback rating on throws over 15 yards, which ranks sixth in the NFL, and slightly ahead of Tom Brady, during that timespan.

Against the New Orleans Saints, the former Michigan State QB threw for 322 yards, three touchdowns and averaged 10.1 yards per attempt in a 34-31 overtime loss. Early in the game, he found tight end Vernon Davis deep. The throw requires arm strength, accuracy and anticipation. Cousins releases the ball as Davis is coming out of his break and leads him far enough toward the sideline that the Saints’ safety can’t get there in time.

One of the great benefits of having Cousins as your quarterback is his toughness. He played in 16 games this year despite being sacked 41 times. He’s willing to stand in the face of pressure and make downfield throws like the one below.

New Orleans sends an all-out blitz and Cousins waits for the last possible second to fire the ball downfield to his wide open receiver for a touchdown. As you can see, he gets smacked by two defenders as he lets the ball go.

Cousins is exceptional at executing play-action plays. Washington ranked No. 3 in the NFL in 2017 in yards per attempt on play-action throws, first in 2016 and second in 2015, according to Football Outsiders. Jay Gruden dialed up play-action on 20 percent of his total plays. The Vikings ran play-action at a slightly higher rate last season (26 percent).

On the play below, the offensive line blocks as if they are going to run an outside zone handoff, then Cousins rolls right. Despite a rusher coming at him, he slams on the breaks and releases a pass to the second level for a big gain. He could have dumped it off short, but instead found the deeper receiver.

Some of Cousins’ best moments aren’t the most flashy. He appears to have an exceptional understanding of his offense and where each receiver is going to be. The play below is the best example of Cousins going through progressions and working his way across the field. The receiver to his right is running a slant, which the Saints take away. Backed up against the goal line, he quickly works to his check down option for a positive play.

Cousins was effective working the ball to his running backs. In total, they caught 79 passes this season. Top pass-catching running back Chris Thompson gained 13.1 yards per reception.

To recap: Cousins throws a strong, accurate deep ball and isn’t afraid to launch the ball to a receiver with coverage lurking. He’s well versed in his offense and knows how to find his playmakers in space underneath, he’s incredibly tough and fantastic at executing play-action throws.

The bad

Against the Philadelphia Eagles on opening week, Cousins had a rough outing, going 23-for-40 with 240 yards, one touchdown, one interception and a 72.9 rating. It wasn’t his worst game of the year statistically, but it was his roughest game with a full supporting cast. Later in the year, Washington suffered a number of key injuries.

We begin on the game’s first drive. On a third-and-long, Cousins avoids an inside rush from the defensive end and has an open lane to throw the ball past the sticks. However, the Eagles are playing two deep safeties and two linebackers dropping deep into zone coverage. At the bottom of the screen, you can see a cover-2 zone look.

Cousins’ target sits down between the safety and the corner. But Cousins sees him too late and the Eagles’ linebacker closes quickly, nearly intercepting the pass. This is one area where Cousins appears to struggle: Facing teams playing deep zone coverages, he has issues throwing into tight windows. Pro Football Focus ranked Cousins 17th this year in “big-time throws.” He can also be overly aggressive rather than living to fight another day. The veteran QB has the fifth most INTs on third-and-long in the NFL over the last three years.

Below is another example of a third down throw into traffic that doesn’t go well for Cousins. He nearly gets his receiver decked. He may have assumed the single safety was going to drop deep into coverage, but instead the safety sat on the route, fooling Cousins into a poor decision.

Earlier we saw Cousins hang in the pocket and take a big hit to throw a touchdown. Well, that can be both good and bad. Over the past three years, Cousins has more fumbles than any quarterback in the NFL with 31.

On the play below, we see one example. He doesn’t feel the rusher coming around the edge or slide up into the pocket to buy himself an extra half second.

Trying to play hero inside the pocket has also led to some untimely interceptions. On this play, the Eagles have a rusher come free and Cousins wings the ball to his hot receiver instead of taking the sack. Because he can’t set his feet, the ball sails and is picked off.

The average interception percentage under pressure is 2.6 percent. This year, Cousins’ was 4.1 percent. But his “big-time throw” percentage was higher than average.

To recap: Over the last three years, Cousins has turned the ball over more than Mike Zimmer would like from his quarterback. It appears that his issues with tight-window throws and commitment to hanging in the pocket are responsible for that.

Consistency and “clutch” situations

*** See article for this part (includes tables) ***

Now – about Cousins being a “winner.”

Judging a quarterback by his win-loss record isn’t always the best way to evaluate. Quarterbacks don’t play, you know, defense. Washington’s defense has ranked 28th, 28th and 21st in yards allowed and hasn’t cracked the top half of the league in points allowed.

But that doesn’t mean there’s nothing to the notion of Cousins struggling in certain key situations.

For example, Pro Football Focus graded him 30th on third downs this season. Over the last three years, he has a mid-pack 7.5 yards per attempt on third-and-long situations (best is Ben Roethlisberger at 9.2) with the fifth most interceptions.

Here are his passer ratings by quarter:

First quarter: 103.9

Second quarter: 95.7

Third quarter: 93.0

Fourth quarter: 85.9

Of his 55 career interceptions, 22 have come in the fourth quarter.

When Washington is winning, Cousins’ rating is 99.4, when they’re trailing his rating is 85.6. When trailing with fewer than four minutes to go, Cousins has a 69.4 rating. Over an entire career, these things are relevant and likely relate to the struggles we looked at vs. the Eagles.