Cardinal release Honey Badger Tyrann Mathieu - MERGED

[pointman]

Just now, sciond said:

Agreed but we go through this. Then it doesn't work and then we hamstrung over and over again. Macc just needs to build through the draft

Dude, the "build thru the draft" idea is nice. It is. I love the idea of homegrown talent. But I'm sorry, its an old philosophy that doesn't work ON ITS OWN. We have HUGE cap space, and when you have it, you use it. Every organization does. We aren't doing what we did in 2010 and bringing in hired guns for a season of action. This isn't bringing in Jason Taylor to come off the edge for a season. This is putting in building blocks. Legit foundation pieces. Honey Badger could be captaining our secondary for half a decade, maybe longer. Think about that. This isn't some 29 yr old safety cashing a check. This is a 25 year old young man... hungry, fast, strong, football smart. Hes a building block. 

[Ken Schroy]

I hope they get him and then go all in for Offense in the draft, starting with a QB in rd 1.

[sciond]

Just now, pointman said:

Dude, the "build thru the draft" idea is nice. It is. I love the idea of homegrown talent. But I'm sorry, its an old philosophy that doesn't work ON ITS OWN. We have HUGE cap space, and when you have it, you use it. Every organization does. We aren't doing what we did in 2010 and bringing in hired guns for a season of action. This isn't bringing in Jason Taylor to come off the edge for a season. This is putting in building blocks. Legit foundation pieces. Honey Badger could be captaining our secondary for half a decade, maybe longer. Think about that. This isn't some 29 yr old safety cashing a check. This is a 25 year old young man... hungry, fast, strong, football smart. Hes a building block. 

Remember the Tanny era? We were all excited

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, pointman said:

Dude, the "build thru the draft" idea is nice. It is. I love the idea of homegrown talent. But I'm sorry, its an old philosophy that doesn't work ON ITS OWN. We have HUGE cap space, and when you have it, you use it. Every organization does. We aren't doing what we did in 2010 and bringing in hired guns for a season of action. This isn't bringing in Jason Taylor to come off the edge for a season. This is putting in building blocks. Legit foundation pieces. Honey Badger could be captaining our secondary for half a decade, maybe longer. Think about that. This isn't some 29 yr old safety cashing a check. This is a 25 year old young man... hungry, fast, strong, football smart. Hes a building block. 

[Patriot Killa]

3 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

I want you to know when I see your avatar pop up on recently posted I get a 1/4 chub. Then I click on the thread and there is no new information. 

LOL.

That’s why I’m a true Jet fan. I half way excite the fan base just to let them down in the most nonchalant and crucial manner.?

[pointman]

Just now, sciond said:

Remember the Tanny era? We were all excited

I just pointed to that. Its different. Tanny brought in old guys, on their last leg and patched a team together. And shoot, whats wrong with that even? He won, didn't we? That era was far better than what we have endured since. This is different in that we are able to hold onto these pieces. Dude, please legit read my entire last post. 

[Ken Schroy]

4 minutes ago, pointman said:

Dude, the "build thru the draft" idea is nice. It is. I love the idea of homegrown talent. But I'm sorry, its an old philosophy that doesn't work ON ITS OWN. We have HUGE cap space, and when you have it, you use it. Every organization does. We aren't doing what we did in 2010 and bringing in hired guns for a season of action. This isn't bringing in Jason Taylor to come off the edge for a season. This is putting in building blocks. Legit foundation pieces. Honey Badger could be captaining our secondary for half a decade, maybe longer. Think about that. This isn't some 29 yr old safety cashing a check. This is a 25 year old young man... hungry, fast, strong, football smart. Hes a building block. 

Agreed. Think about this; Why do they have so much Cap space? Because many of those high draft picks failed and are gone. If you can sign FA in there prime, you gotta check it out. Plus, this guy is special.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Ken Shroy said:

Agreed. Think about this; Why do they have so much Cap space? Because many of those high draft picks failed and are gone. If you can sign FA in there prime, you gotta check it out.

He's a proven NFL superstar available for the taking not a "what if" draft pick. 

[sciond]

Just now, pointman said:

I just pointed to that. Its different. Tanny brought in old guys, on their last leg and patched a team together. And shoot, whats wrong with that even? He won, didn't we? That era was far better than what we have endured since. This is different in that we are able to hold onto these pieces. Dude, please legit read my entire last post. 

I did but we just dumped a hole bunch in the secondary. This one guy however great he is going to take a huge contract and is not enough to make this a competitive. Especially if we keep drafting not so well

[joewilly12]

Just now, sciond said:

I did but we just dumped a hole bunch in the secondary. This one guy however great he is going to take a huge contract and is not enough to make this a competitive. Especially if we keep drafting not so well

Skrine cut him frees up $6 million you sign Mathieu and you instantly improve the secondary with a 25 yr old SUPERSTAR.

[pointman]

2 minutes ago, sciond said:

I did but we just dumped a hole bunch in the secondary. This one guy however great he is going to take a huge contract and is not enough to make this a competitive. Especially if we keep drafting not so well

What does it matter if we dumped big money into the secondary? You forget we can drop Skrine and recoup ~5 big ones. He makes a huge difference. 

Not drafting well is a reason we should be taking on free agents when we can. Building the team through just the draft.. we are all going to die without seeing a 12 win team.

[sciond]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Skrine cut him frees up $6 million you sign Mathieu and you instantly improve the secondary with a 25 yr old SUPERSTAR.

ok so let me ask you this how much do you think he will need to sign?  Is somewhere  near triple  what Skrine is making is my guess per year...After the Mo screwing I am not for these big deals

[BUM-KNEE]

[pointman]

2 minutes ago, sciond said:

ok so let me ask you this how much do you think he will need to sign?  Is somewhere  near triple  what Skrine is making is my guess per year...After the Mo screwing I am not for these big deals

Question for you. So we listen to you, and save the lets say 10 million over the cost of Skrine. What are you doing with that money?

[sciond]

Just now, pointman said:

What does it matter if we dumped big money into the secondary? You forget we can drop Skrine and recoup ~5 big ones. He makes a huge difference. 

Not drafting well is a reason we should be taking on free agents when we can. Building the team through just the draft.. we are all going to die without seeing a 12 win team.

i hope your right and I am wrong...but from what I see in NFL these big deals don't end well. 

Why does it matter? Have you seen our 0-line? TE situation? D-line is not where it needs to needs to be etc.....

[pointman]

1 minute ago, sciond said:

i hope your right and I am wrong...but from what I see in NFL these big deals don't end well. 

Why does it matter? Have you seen our 0-line? TE situation? D-line is not where it needs to needs to be etc.....

Its not necessarily a big deal. 

Thats the thing though. We aren't sacrificing something else in order to get him. Its in addition to him.

[sciond]

Just now, pointman said:

Question for you. So we listen to you, and save the lets say 10 million over the cost of Skrine. What are you doing with that money?

how about some people to protect our QB, and maybe a decent TE. Why couldn't we pay top dollar for ASJ? We have been sucking at TE for years...

[sciond]

Just now, pointman said:

Its not necessarily a big deal. 

Thats the thing though. We aren't sacrificing something else in order to get him. Its in addition to him.

like I said I hop you are right and I sm wrong

[pointman]

Just now, sciond said:

how about some people to protect our QB, and maybe a decent TE. Why couldn't we pay top dollar for ASJ? We have been sucking at TE for years...

We weren't in on players that Mac thought were overpriced and we have a ton of cap. We can still get the pieces we need. Honey badger's contract wouldn't limit us. And ASJ, he was better than what we have had since Keller but he was still far from top tier money good. 

[jgb]

18 minutes ago, sciond said:

Remember the Tanny era? We were all excited

We did make 2 consecutive AFC champ games... He went all in and then the window closed. Sure the sting would be easier to deal with had we won the SB but that's how it works in today's NFL. Identify a window, go all in, pay the tab later. 

[pointman]

Just now, jgb said:

We did make 2 consecutive AFC champ games... He went all in and then the window closed. Sure the sting would be easier to deal with had we won the SB but that's how it works in today's NFL. Identify a window, go all in, pay the tab later. 

Window closed before Tanny got a chance to right the ship. Just saying. Its been purgatory since.

[sciond]

1 minute ago, pointman said:

We weren't in on players that Mac thought were overpriced and we have a ton of cap. We can still get the pieces we need. Honey badger's contract wouldn't limit us. And ASJ, he was better than what we have had since Keller but he was still far from top tier money good. 

The thing is we could pay a bit more for these guys and spread it out. We will have to overpay for Tyrann too. Its what poorly run non contending teams have to do sadly. Honestly thinking about Macc and the way he thinks he was scared to dump too much money in the DL what makes us think he will do it on the secondary?

[jgb]

Just now, pointman said:

Window closed before Tanny got a chance to right the ship. Just saying. Its been purgatory since.

Yeah the window slammed shut. A lot of that may have to do with Rex burnout. The guy can get the team jacked up but don't see how his style is sustainable.

[sciond]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

We did make 2 consecutive AFC champ games... He went all in and then the window closed. Sure the sting would be easier to deal with had we won the SB but that's how it works in today's NFL. Identify a window, go all in, pay the tab later. 

then we got the pain of Idzik

[jgb]

Just now, sciond said:

then we got the pain of Idzik

No doubt that was brutal but 2 AFC Champ Games in a row... hate to say it but Tanny was the most successful GM since the merger 

[sciond]

Just now, jgb said:

No doubt that was brutal but 2 AFC Champ Games in a row... hate to say it but Tanny was the most successful GM since the merger 

absolutely but we have been a train wreck ever since  and a large part was capology. Obviously it has made people like myself cautious

[jetstream23]

With Honey Badger would the Jets look to play a Nickel D like 80% of the time?  CB1 - Johnson, CB2 - ?, Slot CB - Mathieu, Adams + Maye at S?  Or, is Mathieu going to play CB2 when we're not in the Nickel?  Probably a stupid question but my concern would be how small the Jets are on D with this lineup, especially if you're keeping Darron Lee on the field.  I like Honey Badger a lot and he'd be a dynamic addition to the defense that really lets Bowles play mad scientist with exotic blitzes, etc. but I'm not quite sure he's a fit unless we're looking to pull Lee off the field more often.

[BrickTamland]

2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

With Honey Badger would the Jets look to play a Nickel D like 80% of the time?  CB1 - Johnson, CB2 - ?, Slot CB - Mathieu, Adams + Maye at S?  Or, is Mathieu going to play CB2 when we're not in the Nickel?  Probably a stupid question but my concern would be how small the Jets are on D with this lineup, especially if you're keeping Darron Lee on the field.  I like Honey Badger a lot and he'd be a dynamic addition to the defense that really lets Bowles play mad scientist with exotic blitzes, etc. but I'm not quite sure he's a fit unless we're looking to pull Lee off the field more often.

Interesting thought. And that is what we should do

[jetstream23]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

No doubt that was brutal but 2 AFC Champ Games in a row... hate to say it but Tanny was the most successful GM since the merger 

After that first run to the AFCCG the Jets went "all in" in 2010-2011.  Braylon Edwards, Ladanian Tomlinson, etc. We were in Cap hell following that if I remember correctly.  But kudos to Tanny, we had a championship caliber team for a few years there.  The Idzik years were painfully lean and we still haven't replenished the offensive talent on this team since about 2012 onward it feels like.

[kdels62]

6 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

With Honey Badger would the Jets look to play a Nickel D like 80% of the time?  CB1 - Johnson, CB2 - ?, Slot CB - Mathieu, Adams + Maye at S?  Or, is Mathieu going to play CB2 when we're not in the Nickel?  Probably a stupid question but my concern would be how small the Jets are on D with this lineup, especially if you're keeping Darron Lee on the field.  I like Honey Badger a lot and he'd be a dynamic addition to the defense that really lets Bowles play mad scientist with exotic blitzes, etc. but I'm not quite sure he's a fit unless we're looking to pull Lee off the field more often.

Fully expect Adams to be a hybrid LB/ Safety in our nickle with Mathieu being a hynrid slot/safety with their roles interchanging depend on the defensive call. Our new ILB is supposed to be more of a 2 down guy so that'll mean that our safeties will take over the role in that situation. We might be easy to run on this year. 

[jetstream23]

41 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Build the offense through the draft. 

If you said this to Mike Macc he'd look at you like you were speaking Chinese.  This team just signed a #1 CB and upgraded at ILB with one of the best available linebackers in FA.....all while missing on Cousins, bringing back McCown, not signing a WR and possibly landing a guy who was the 20th ranked Center last year.  This Front Office can't spell the word offense let alone draft it or sign FAs who play it!  If they add Mathieu (which I'm all for) it would be just like when they were drafting DLineman after DLineman (Wilkerson, Quinton Coples, Richardson, Leo Williams, etc.) except now it's completely loading up in the Secondary (Adams, Maye, Trumaine Johnson, Honey Badger?).  It's literally nuts.  I feel like we're going back to the Rex mindset that you get to the playoffs by winning a bunch of games 6-3.  lol

[jgb]

15 minutes ago, sciond said:

absolutely but we have been a train wreck ever since  and a large part was capology. Obviously it has made people like myself cautious

Don't blame you but without taking those risks, no AFC Championships Games Can't get to a SB without going through those. He made a gamble and ultimately lost.  Absent having a franchise QB on a rookie contract, I don't see many ways to get there otherwise.

The biggest indictment in hindsight was re-upping Sanchez when he did.

[HawkeyeJet]

9 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

With Honey Badger would the Jets look to play a Nickel D like 80% of the time?  CB1 - Johnson, CB2 - ?, Slot CB - Mathieu, Adams + Maye at S?  Or, is Mathieu going to play CB2 when we're not in the Nickel?  Probably a stupid question but my concern would be how small the Jets are on D with this lineup, especially if you're keeping Darron Lee on the field.  I like Honey Badger a lot and he'd be a dynamic addition to the defense that really lets Bowles play mad scientist with exotic blitzes, etc. but I'm not quite sure he's a fit unless we're looking to pull Lee off the field more often.

The Nickel is essentially the base defense in the NFL.  It has been for a few years.

There are lots of different looks they could utilize.  Traditional Nickel with Mathieu as the slot CB.  Traditional Nickel with Adams replacing Williamson in a Coverage LB situation.  3-3-5 with Adams playing a LB/Safety Hybrid.

I don't know exactly how they would utilize everyone, but it would include a lot of blitzing, that I do know.

[jetstream23]

3 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

The Nickel is essentially the base defense in the NFL.  It has been for a few years.

There are lots of different looks they could utilize.  Traditional Nickel with Mathieu as the slot CB.  Traditional Nickel with Adams replacing Williamson in a Coverage LB situation.  3-3-5 with Adams playing a LB/Safety Hybrid.

I don't know exactly how they would utilize everyone, but it would include a lot of blitzing, that I do know.

I like it but I get the sense it could be easy to run against.  That's my concern.  We really need 3 guys who can anchor that Line if we're planning to play a lot of light, speedy coverage-capable guys behind them.  Maybe the addition of Williamson allows them to do this and still maintain a good run/pass balance on defense.  We'll just have to see.

[JetFanatic]

54 minutes ago, pointman said:

Dude, the "build thru the draft" idea is nice. It is. I love the idea of homegrown talent. But I'm sorry, its an old philosophy that doesn't work ON ITS OWN. We have HUGE cap space, and when you have it, you use it. Every organization does. We aren't doing what we did in 2010 and bringing in hired guns for a season of action. This isn't bringing in Jason Taylor to come off the edge for a season. This is putting in building blocks. Legit foundation pieces. Honey Badger could be captaining our secondary for half a decade, maybe longer. Think about that. This isn't some 29 yr old safety cashing a check. This is a 25 year old young man... hungry, fast, strong, football smart. Hes a building block. 

My hero.