How demoralized would you be if Darnold busts?

[UntouchableCrew]

13 minutes ago, VinnyT16 said:

To be fair Sanchez and Geno showed flashes in year 1 as well despite the overall body of work being terrible. 

Its a tough sitution for the kid. Bowles is going to fall on the sword for him in year 1, but he will start feeling the heat year 2 if he doesnt show significant progress. Considering  at the end of year 2 he will be the same age as Baker this year its a tough spot to be in.

Darnold could be a cautionary tale for QBs leaving school early. 

 

 

 

The real cautionary tale is getting drafted by the Jets. Tons of good prospects come out early and do well. Nobody who gets drafted by the Jets does.

[joewilly12]

Next man up I repeat we have been here before. 

[Philc1]

Carl Banks on WFAN now explaining rookie QBs like Sam usually have games like this

 

 

When Carl Banks is the voice of reason

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Carl Banks on WFAN now explaining rookie QBs like Sam usually have games like this

 

 

When Carl Banks is the voice of reason

Carl Banks is probably the happiest man on the radio today, he is a Giant and loathes in Jets failure especially with the current condition of the Giants. 

[The Crusher]

51 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Because of the owner. Sanchez was here for five years and didn’t face any real competition until his fifth camp. Then Geno goes 12/20 his rookie year and somehow that’s enough to keep us from taking Bridgewater or Carr. Now suddenly we’re married to Darnold. I’m convinced that this comes from Woody. He meets these guys at the site visit and starts dreaming about owning the back pages, so these kids get tagged as the face of the franchise before they take a single snap because the owner cares more about the cover of the season ticket brochure than he does about winning. Meanwhile they go out there and toss the ball to the other team every week and we’re not allowed to draft any competition because, hey, face of the franchise.

Challenge with this is do we think we can use any other pick other than a one to find another QB? If we do use a one where do we get the players to replace the ones we got now that are kinda lackluster? We would end up with two potential franchise QB's with no one to catch the ball, block for them or snap the ball within a foot of them. I get the competition thing when you draft guys like Hack and Petty but when you finally get the number one overall consensus pick, for the most part I would tend to think you focus on that one guy until you are proven otherwise. Sam played like total poop yesterday but I can't imagine burying more early draft resources at that position until we have most of our verdict on Sam.

[HelenOfTroy]

1 hour ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Jared Goff got better mostly because rookies get better. It is silly to attribute more than a small part of that to having a new coach and system.

I strongly disagree with this.  Coach McVay had a lot to do with Goff development, the talent was there, but he needed the team built around him.  McVay and the Rams went out to do so, through free agency and the draft and a top notch OC and QB coach that built Goff up and coached to his strengths. One year from potential bust, to a budding star.

Maybe that line of thinking, that it takes talent alone, is why Jets fans have not experienced success and championship play.  Do you all recognize that coaching is vital to success?  How do the Patriots consistently field championship teams with players that once they leave, performance falls?  One of our own, Matt Cassell went from 7th round pick, and never playing a down of football at USC, to successful QB and leader on that team as the QB for a year.  

This is what a good coach looks and sounds like.

 

 

[bitonti]

58 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think they actually lost money.  Swanson is making $850K, Harrison $880K, plus there is $350K in dead money on Swanson. I think Swanson's deal was for $1.5M.  They both have 4 years.  They may have saved some money, but it was less than $500k.

when skimming the cream off the top, every bit helps 

[Patriot Killa]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

this thread deserves some credit because it's asking the question no one else has the balls to ask.

people would rather blame the coach or the center playing with a broken hand.  

the reason why they couldn't go 3 and 5 step drops by the way is because those are football concepts Darnold hasn't mastered. He's spent his entire short college career in the shotgun. 

Wrong like always. He played in a pro system his freshman year when he set the world on fire. Ask @HelenOfTroy 

Bit you always act like you know what you’re talking about lol. Give it a rest dude.

[bitonti]

4 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Wrong like always. He played in a pro system his freshman year when he set the world on fire. Ask @HelenOfTroy 

Bit you always act like you know what you’re talking about lol. Give it a rest dude.

Sam Darnold played 2 years at USC. His redshirt freshman year and his redshirt soph year, both under the same offensive system, under coach Clay Helton

I don't have his freshman stats handy but Sam Darnold took 4% of his snaps from center his last year in college 

 

those aren't passes, those are total snaps.  that means 96% of his snaps were out of the shotgun

I don't believe his freshman year numbers were any different

He might know how to run a 5 step drop in theory, he may have done it a couple times but the dude lived out of the shotgun and he isn't able to just switch all the shotgun plays to 5 step drops. 

Jets fans listen to the announcers too much these guys literally half of them are walking CTE cases. It may have been true in the year 1988. In the year 2018 you can't run two minute offense with Darnold from under center because he's still working out how to hand off the ball from under center.  

[bealeb319]

I have never player qb but I would imagine it is easy to make poor decisions when you can not trust your offensive line to hold passed the snap. Darnold wasn't my first qb choice in the draft but I think he will be good and serviceable. If his ceiling ends up being Stafford or Eli (younger years) or flacco ( also younger years) I am alright with that...we need a guy who is decent we don't need Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers just someone who is worth keeping on the roster passed his rookie deal.

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

[dbatesman]

29 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Challenge with this is do we think we can use any other pick other than a one to find another QB? If we do use a one where do we get the players to replace the ones we got now that are kinda lackluster? We would end up with two potential franchise QB's with no one to catch the ball, block for them or snap the ball within a foot of them. I get the competition thing when you draft guys like Hack and Petty but when you finally get the number one overall consensus pick, for the most part I would tend to think you focus on that one guy until you are proven otherwise. Sam played like total poop yesterday but I can't imagine burying more early draft resources at that position until we have most of our verdict on Sam.

It's a problem. Personally, I think Matt is dead-on about extensively scouting every single QB class until you're 100% sold you have the guy on the roster, and I think if you really believe somebody is the guy, you go for it, regardless of who you've already got. But I also know that's never going to happen. If Maccagnan sticks around, he won't do it for obvious reasons, and if he doesn't, his replacement won't either, because I can't see Woody hiring someone who's not committed to Darnold at least for the near-term. I also get the argument for building up the rest of the roster in the meantime; part of the issue here is that Maccagnan bungled everything so badly that by the time we got the QB, he was surrounded by a bunch of JV jamokes. As always, my short answer is "take a QB until you find one," but my long answer is "it depends."

[#27TheDominator]

18 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Wrong like always. He played in a pro system his freshman year when he set the world on fire. Ask @HelenOfTroy 

Bit you always act like you know what you’re talking about lol. Give it a rest dude.

As always?  Do you think pro-system means that he is taking snaps from under center?  I am not a huge USC fan, but I watched plenty of highlight videos of the kid and the next completion I see him make from under center will be the first.  I just checked a 5 minute 2016 video without a single snap under center.  You have any video?

AFAIK, Helton was head coach and Tee Martin OC in 2016 and 2017, so I don't see there being a big philosophical change there. 

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

As always?  Do you think pro-system means that he is taking snaps from under center?  I am not a huge USC fan, but I watched plenty of highlight videos of the kid and the next completion I see him make from under center will be the first.  I just checked a 5 minute 2016 video without a single snap under center.  You have any video?

AFAIK, Helton was head coach and Tee Martin OC in 2016 and 2017, so I don't see there being a big philosophical change there. 

Concept wise, yes. I expect pro systems to hold more formations from under center.

[The Crusher]

4 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

It's a problem. Personally, I think Matt is dead-on about extensively scouting every single QB class until you're 100% sold you have the guy on the roster, and I think if you really believe somebody is the guy, you go for it, regardless of who you've already got. But I also know that's never going to happen. If Maccagnan sticks around, he won't do it for obvious reasons, and if he doesn't, his replacement won't either, because I can't see Woody hiring someone who's not committed to Darnold at least for the near-term. I also get the argument for building up the rest of the roster in the meantime; part of the issue here is that Maccagnan bungled everything so badly that by the time we got the QB, he was surrounded by a bunch of JV jamokes. As always, my short answer is "take a QB until you find one," but my long answer is "it depends."

Great answer. Thanks . 

[August]

If Darnold busts a lot of people will be devastated, some people have already determined that he will be great instead of being cautiously optimistic. 

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

Concept wise, yes. I expect pro systems to hold more formations from under center.

Sorry, but I don't give a **** about concepts.  I care about facts.  You called out @bitonti based on "concept wise?"  Bit gave you the 2017 stats with the same HC and OC.  Maybe you should cehck with @HelenOfTroy  As far as I can tell, they don't do it - Should Darnold have taken snaps under center? ...I kept saying that all year last year. It does not make sense to me that it is not at least a part of our offense. Maybe they are saving it for a big game down the road.

Here is a 5 minute video of 2016 highlights.  Point out the snap from under center. I didn't see any. 

 

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Sorry, but I don't give a **** about concepts.  I care about facts.  You called out @bitonti based on "concept wise?"  Bit gave you the 2017 stats with the same HC and OC.  Maybe you should cehck with @HelenOfTroy  As far as I can tell, they don't do it - Should Darnold have taken snaps under center? ...I kept saying that all year last year. It does not make sense to me that it is not at least a part of our offense. Maybe they are saving it for a big game down the road.

Here is a 5 minute video of 2016 highlights.  Point out the snap from under center. I didn't see any. 

 

A highlight video is what you give me?? Most big plays in college happen during shot gun, spread formation and you give me a highlight video littered with just that!?

Yeah Bit deserves a call out and you do too. Are you kidding me? The tweet that Bit posted holds more weight than this.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

36 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Wrong like always. He played in a pro system his freshman year when he set the world on fire. Ask @HelenOfTroy 

Bit you always act like you know what you’re talking about lol. Give it a rest dude.

 

12 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Concept wise, yes. I expect pro systems to hold more formations from under center.

To sum up: pro system blah blah pro system bleep bloop pro system dur hur. Other guy puts up a video and points to stuff that happened and says hey that stuff happened? No problem. Just keep word vomiting the jargon. That trumps everything.

[Patriot Killa]

2 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

 

To sum up: pro system blah blah pro system bleep bloop pro system dur hur. Other guy puts up a video and points to stuff that happened and says hey that stuff happened? No problem. Just keep word vomiting the jargon. That trumps everything.

The tweet proved me wrong TO AN EXTENT. I didn’t dispute that. The highlight video though? Hell no...lol just..no

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

3 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

A highlight video is what you give me?? Most big plays in college happen during shot gun, spread formation and you give me a highlight video littered with just that!?

Yeah Bit deserves a call out and you do too. Are you kidding me? The tweet that Bit posted holds more weight than this.

Oh boy. More words I have heard the football men say on the football screen. I dunno how they’re gonna refute this!

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Oh boy. More words I have heard the football men say on the football screen. I dunno how they’re gonna refute this!

Good thing that I don’t honestly care.

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

The tweet proved me wrong TO AN EXTENT. I didn’t dispute that. The highlight video though? Hell no...lol just..no

You want to sit through all-22 be my guest.  I don't have to.  I'm not the one making up stories about pro-system = under center.  

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

11 minutes ago, August said:

If Darnold busts a lot of people will be devastated, some people have already determined that he will be great instead of being cautiously optimistic. 

And most of the people claiming to be cautiously optimistic have also already determined that he will be great. 

[dbatesman]

24 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Great answer. Thanks . 

[Patriot Killa]

7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You want to sit through all-22 be my guest.  I don't have to.  I'm not the one making up stories about pro-system = under center.  

Ehh I honestly don’t care dude. It’s common knowledge that under center formations are in a ton of pro system rather than not. That’s what I went off of and feel that was fair.

like I said, with the way the season is now, I really don’t even care bout half the sh*tbeing said on this forum. I really don’t. I just don’t feel like the Darnold “he barely took snaps under center” crap is very valid at all. He’s take enough now. Mayfield ran an even more gimmick offense and he’s doing just fine. Josh Rosen was under center more than anyone. He looks worse than both Sam and Baker. I see no correlation and so when I called him out, I should of just pointed out the lack of correlation between the two things he was trying to connect. Poorly approached by me. Whatever moving on now.

[nico002]

Nothing wrong with Sam being more comfortable with shot gun at this point in his career. Everything wrong with having a center with snapping yips 

[bitonti]

13 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

A highlight video is what you give me?? Most big plays in college happen during shot gun, spread formation and you give me a highlight video littered with just that!?

Yeah Bit deserves a call out and you do too. Are you kidding me? The tweet that Bit posted holds more weight than this.

You deserve a call out too broski. You said Darnold ran 5 step drops all freshman year long, meanwhile he probably never threw a real pass from under center.  Fake news calling everyone else wrong.  

The snaps Sam Darnold took from under center at USC were victory formation and short yardage type situations. Maybe he throws a play action jump pass. Kids don't get trained in 3 step and 5 step drops anymore. You're thinking of Josh Rosen.

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

 I just don’t feel like the Darnold “he barely took snaps under center” crap is very valid at all. He’s take enough now. 

3

ok even if that were true how many passes has he thrown from under center in the NFL? of those, how many of those didn't have a play action run fake component

they can't just go 2 minute from under center that's the point here. like Todd Bowles is too dumb to understand there are other ways to take a snap? That part of the offense doesn't exist and it's because the Jets are starting the youngest QB in NFL history who, by the way, has practically no experience throwing under center.

[The Crusher]

3 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Nothing wrong with Sam being more comfortable with shot gun at this point in his career. Everything wrong with having a center with snapping yips 

With the state of the shotgun snaps I would say Sam will soon get comfortable under center.

 

[nico002]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

You deserve a call out too broski. You said Darnold ran 5 step drops all freshman year long, meanwhile he probably never threw a real pass from under center.  Fake news calling everyone else wrong.  

The snaps Sam Darnold took from under center at USC were victory formation and short yardage type situations. Maybe he throws a play action jump pass. Kids don't get trained in 3 step and 5 step drops anymore. You're thinking of Josh Rosen.

What are you even arguing? Nothing wrong with Sam preferring the shot gun. It’s only an issue because the center has the yips... Rodgers has like 80% shotgun snaps too...

[Patriot Killa]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

You deserve a call out too broski. You said Darnold ran 5 step drops all freshman year long, meanwhile he probably never threw a real pass from under center.  Fake news calling everyone else wrong.  

The snaps Sam Darnold took from under center at USC were victory formation and short yardage type situations. Maybe he throws a play action jump pass. Kids don't get trained in 3 step and 5 step drops anymore. You're thinking of Josh Rosen.

Who is doing even worse. And Baker Mayfield who was under center less and didn’t have to go through full reads is doing the best.

where is the connection you are trying to make? That’s honestly how I should of approached your post because it doesn’t make sense.

[Hael]

I've definitely been wrong before, but I just like the way he throws.  I like that he looks coverage off sometimes, and that he makes strong, accurate throws and can do it even off a wobbly platform.  I even like some of the decisions he made that resulted in INTs.  He really looks a lot different than what we've had before. 

Geno Smith for instance I thought was godawful from the first day.  A guy who threw mostly checkdowns, but was so stupid that he could throw 2 yard passes into double coverage.

Sanchez always looked like a game manager to me, (and I thought he could be a decent one), but yea the semi infrequent brain farts that would lead to pick 6 game finishers definitely happened way more than could be accepted (and without the corresponding wow moments that a talented qb like Darnold can produce).

Having said that, Darnold did look shell shocked for the first time yesterday, and I really didn't like that.  Rookies are going to be up and down, and I expect more bad games, but its how they respond to adversity that we need to look out for.

[Mike135]

Don't think he will.

If he does though, it'd suck for a day... then so be it.  We waste draft picks all the time.

No biggie.

[Patriot Killa]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

ok even if that were true how many passes has he thrown from under center in the NFL? of those, how many of those didn't have a play action run fake component

they can't just go 2 minute from under center that's the point here. like Todd Bowles is too dumb to understand there are other ways to take a snap? That part of the offense doesn't exist and it's because the Jets are starting the youngest QB in NFL history who, by the way, has practically no experience throwing under center.

I honestly have no idea how many he has taken in the NFL but I would assume a decent amount. Enough to at least get adjusted.

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

Who is doing even worse. And Baker Mayfield who was under center less and didn’t have to go through full reads is doing the best.

where is the connection you are trying to make? That’s honestly how I should of approached your post because it doesn’t make sense.

This is gold.