Why is Macagnan escaping the purge?

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Sonny Werblin said:

Why can't you tell? The talent on the Browns is clear despite the horrendous job their HCs have done.

Name me one player on the Jets who you think is underachieving his talent because of the coaching?

on offense it's difficult to see who can do what when they play guys like tomlinson/kearse/crowell.  

[Sonny Werblin]

4 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Macagnan is better?

Mac is better by virtue of one thing. He doesn't absolutely blow the first round picks.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Sonny Werblin said:

Why can't you tell? The talent on the Browns is clear despite the horrendous job their HCs have done.

Name me one player on the Jets who you think is underachieving his talent because of the coaching?

I think the defense is skilled but they need to be prepared properly. Be in the right places. read properly. I think that's where our coaching goes awry.

[Sonny Werblin]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

on offense it's difficult to see who can do what when they play guys like tomlinson/kearse/crowell.  

who are wondering about with regard to the ability to do what?

[Sonny Werblin]

2 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Hackenberg?

LOL

[SpartanJet]

Imagine if the Giants took Sam.  We would have given up a butt ton of draft picks for 2 QB's who would probably have been on the board at 6.  He got lucky as hell that the Giants went RB or that trade would have been comically bad.  BPA doesn't work when you have no play makers on offense and no edge rushers on defense.  There is a reason why these non impact position players seem to "fall" to us year after year.

He needs to go almost as much as Bowels does.

[UnitedWhofans]

The other question in regards to the draft/free agents is the influence of the coach. Does a new coach bring the fous the other direction

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, SpartanJet said:

Imagine if the Giants took Sam.  We would have given up a butt ton of draft picks for 2 QB's who would probably have been on the board at 6.  He got lucky as hell that the Giants went RB or that trade would have been comically bad. .

I hate people using that as a vice. He got lucky. Don't you want the Jets to be lucky and good?

People say Belichick was lucky getting Brady

[56mehl56]

6 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

The entire roster surrounding Sam sucks.  Mac built that roster he has to go

Does the roster suck, or does the offensive philosophy , game planning and development suck ??

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Sonny Werblin said:

who are wondering about with regard to the ability to do what?

the rbs, mcguire and cannon, and the TEs, herndon and leggett.  also let's use burnett, why was he inactive yesterday when anderson was out and enunwa was limping  - so they could use kearse?  the entire approach to young offensive guys is still the same with this franchise - embattled defensive coaches rely on the vets who either quit (kearse) or are clearly injured (enunwa) and hurt the team and the evaluation process.  

[UnitedWhofans]

I keep looking to 96-97 Parcells took a team that won 1 game and won 9 the next year.

Tell me that coaching doesn't have that big of an influence on the roster. Was their talent on that roster.

[Ken Schroy]

26 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

His first 3 drafts totally sucked.  Free agent signings the results are mediocre at best. 

 

Sell me on why Mike Macagnan gets to pick his own coaching staff after getting 4 years to produce a bottom 3 roster

You spoke to Chris Johnson? Did he tell you why?

[Ken Schroy]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I keep looking to 96-97 Parcells took a team that won 1 game and won 9 the next year.

Tell me that coaching doesn't have that big of an influence on the roster. Was their talent on that roster.

There was a little talent, but Bill went out and got Vinnie T.

[56mehl56]

5 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Why can't you tell? The talent on the Browns is clear despite the horrendous job their HCs have done.

Name me one player on the Jets who you think is underachieving his talent because of the coaching?

You say that because your a Jets fan. If you were a Browns fan and had Hue as coach you'd say the same thing vice versa.

I think half this team is underachieving . It has no offensive identity at all. On defense the schemes are so whacked out its making good players look bad. Just look at Trumaine Johnson he looks like crap when he's not allowed to play man and plays soft coverage while the telegraphed Bowles blitz get's stacked at the line.  When's teh last time you saw an exotic blitz from the Jets ? How about Dline/LB stunts ,nope its all about lane control to play it safe to our HC's liking.

[Jet_Engine1]

52 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i'll also give him that he hasn't screwed up a first round pick yet.  he also signed bridgewater and flipped him for a 3rd round pick.  

i think it's important for darnold to play out the rest of the season, not just for him but for herndon, mcguire, cannon, burnett and any other of the offensive guys he's brought here (leggett) b/c mccagnan needs to be evaluated on these guys and hiding them in favor of guys like kearse and crowell is a classic bowles copout move that doesn't help anyone keep their jobs.

That's a total fallacy. No, his first rounders didn't totally bust out or anything, but the man drafted an undersized ILB, an interior Lineman, and a freaking Strong Safety before Sam. His second rounders have been atrocious. Beyond that, it's the usual crapshoot. But KNOWING you will be developing a young QB and not investing in the O line, and the complete failure to recognize talent (or lack of) at the skill positions has been noteworthy and evident on the field. Passing JJ Smith-Schuster for Maye a round after taking Adams, and then reaching for Stewart and Hansen is a demotable series if events. And if having him as GM keeps desirable candidates away, you space the guy. 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

That's a total fallacy. No, his first rounders didn't totally  bust out or anything, but the man drafted a broken CB, an undersized ILB, an interior Lineman, and a freaking Strong Safety. 

who's the broken cb?

[UnitedWhofans]

4 minutes ago, Ken Shroy said:

There was a little talent, but Bill went out and got Vinnie T.

IMPOSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That wasn't 1997

[56mehl56]

15 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

on offense it's difficult to see who can do what when they play guys like tomlinson/kearse/crowell.  

Plus they tried what 1-2 passes greater than 15 yards all game. It makes it pretty easy to play D , when you don;t have to worry about wr's getting behind you.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Plus they tried what 1-2 passes greater than 15 yards all game. It makes it pretty easy to play D , when you don;t have to worry about wr's getting behind you.

have to wonder if they know the o-line is such a disaster that the entire playcalling philosophy has been changed out of necessity.  

[southtown24th]

35 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i think one of the reasons bowles hasn't been fired is b/c the johnsons don't know how much housecleaning they're going to do.  hopefully they're lining up someone who can serve as the consultant to preside over the whole thing.  i doubt parcells will want to be actively involved at this point.  i do like the cower idea of head of football ops.

NO MORE CONSULTANTS

[Augustiniak]

Just now, southtown24th said:

NO MORE CONSULTANTS

if they fire mccagnan they will have another one.

[56mehl56]

7 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

That's a total fallacy. No, his first rounders didn't totally  bust out or anything, but the man drafted a broken CB, an undersized ILB, an interior Lineman, and a freaking Strong Safety. 

And again I'll ask the much debated question how many of those draft picks were influenced by the fact that Todd Bowles is a defensive HC.  Drafting isn't done by the GM in a vacuum, in most organizations its a consensus of scouts , coaches the GM and in some cases the VP/Owner.

[tuffhand]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Uh here we go.  I guess this hedging nonsense is the best you can do after defending this retard for several years

Not defending Mac but when Gettleman was fired by Carolina there were posters who wanted him brought in. Would you rather have Mac or Gettleman?

Some posters also advocating bringing in Jerry Reese, Jerry Reese!

Other posters have advocating Reggie Mackenzie when only 11 of his 50 draft picks from 2012 to 2017 remain on the roster. 

I have no faith in J&J picking a GM or HC but it's a crap shoot.

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

have to wonder if they know the o-line is such a disaster that the entire playcalling philosophy has been changed out of necessity.  

But there are ways to combat that  with mis-direction, quick slants , rollouts(Sam) . I saw a play yesterday where the Jets tried a screen and there were 5 Bills defenders and not a single Jet blocker. Their schemes are so messed up right now , I don't feel any valid analysis can be done on these players.

[Sonny Werblin]

19 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I keep looking to 96-97 Parcells took a team that won 1 game and won 9 the next year.

Tell me that coaching doesn't have that big of an influence on the roster. Was their talent on that roster.

I totally agree. Now all we need is a HOF coach to take over for Bowles.

[56mehl56]

Just now, Sonny Werblin said:

I totally agree. Now all we need is a HOF coach to take over for Bowles.

Let's start with someone with a pulse and a feel for the modern NFL game.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

But there are ways to combat that  with mis-direction, quick slants , rollouts(Sam) . I saw a play yesterday where the Jets tried a screen and there were 5 Bills defenders and not a single Jet blocker. Their schemes are so messed up right now , I don't feel any valid analysis can be done on these players.

plus all the tipped passes, makes you realize how predictable the offense is.  should be a fun offseason with either mccagnan in desperation mode to fix the offense or a new gm coming in trying to show he's better than the last one.  either way, we're trending towards a top 5 pick and joey bosa is not going to cut it this time, we need help on offense.

[Beerfish]

There should never been an either or thing between bowels and maccagnan.  they are both awful and both need to be gone.

[56mehl56]

9 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

There should never been an either or thing between bowels and maccagnan.  they are both awful and both need to be gone.

The either or thing was created by management when they cluelessly failed to let their GM hire his HC.

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Mike Maccagnan will be fired the same day Todd Bowles is. 

I thought if Bowles got fired today, Macc would survive. Now I think you are right. They are both getting fired together.

[Jet_Engine1]

41 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

who's the broken cb?

I'm old. I keep thinking Macc drafted Milliner, but that was prior to his reign of Meh. My mistake, but the point stands.

 

 

[Larz]

Maybe because it hasn't happened yet?

[Randy Rasmussen]

point is if they fire the gm it will be b/c someone advised them it was the right thing to do.  if they don't fire the gm then mccags can hire his own coach like he should have been able to do 4 yrs ago.

Question is who is he going to hire to make his draft picks for him?


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[varjet]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I remember when Bradway was the GM and Tannenbaum did the contracts.

One morning we woke up and Tannenbaum was the GM and Bradway was the Scouting Director.  He stayed in that position a long time.  In fact, Bradway was blamed for some of Idzik's picks.

It would not surprise me is something similar happened with Maccagnan.  I do believe that the combination of Bowles and the Johnsons affected Mac's GMing negatively.  But in any event, Mac owns a very low talent roster and needs to be demoted or fired.  I do think think there is an aversion to a complete redo, and keeping Mac around while potentially promoting Heimerdinger and/or bringing in a Director of Football Operations could make the front office work better.

But Bowles is not working as a coach.  And it is not because he can't coach at all-he did an ok job in 2015 and as a DC in 2014.  He just seems too inflexible and stubborn   As we all know, we are ultimately judged by the ability to delegate and build a team.  It seems like Bowles was very fixated on surrounding himself with loyalists as opposed to people that would help him win.  

That was his undoing.  

[Randy Rasmussen]

It's a law with sports. Never say "it can't get any worse..." because it can

Really how much worse can it get
we are staring 3-13 in the face.
How much worse is 1-15 or 0-16?


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