Jet_Engine1 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Phuuuck. That guy has been a monster and has dominated......DOMINATED SEC O lines. He has surpassed Ed Oliver as best Interior Pass Rusher, and I love Olivers game, but hes a bit small for interior D line imo. I know, I know, we have to build the Offense around Darnold. We need O line desperately. But if Jonah Williams grades out as a OG/RT, and we cant trade back, do they reach for Jonah anyway, or take a guy that looks like Aaron freakin' Donald? I like Josh Allen, but Dee Ford may be available, and a front of Ford, Leo, Quinnen, etc in the front 7 could be a monster D. I know. DT. Again. Stupid. LOL, but that kid looks filthy, type of guy that would put up double digit sacks from the interior routinely. Type of player that wrecks game plans. Or maybe we can just beat the Pats and take him out of the equation, because hes a top 3 pick imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant wait Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 only way the jets take an interior DL is if he tests in the watt/donald range. this team desperately needs a playmaker on defense to close out games with a big sack or pressure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Jet_Engine1 said: Phuuuck. That guy has been a monster and has dominated......DOMINATED SEC O lines. He has surpassed Ed Oliver as best Interior Pass Rusher, and I love Olivers game, but hes a bit small for interior D line imo. I know, I know, we have to build the Offense around Darnold. We need O line desperately. But if Jonah Williams grades out as a OG/RT, and we cant trade back, do they reach for Jonah anyway, or take a guy that looks like Aaron freakin' Donald? I like Josh Allen, but Dee Ford may be available, and a front of Ford, Leo, Quinnen, etc in the front 7 could be a monster D. I know. DT. Again. Stupid. LOL, but that kid looks filthy, type of guy that would put up double digit sacks from the interior routinely. Type of player that wrecks game plans. Or maybe we can just beat the Pats and take him out of the equation, because hes a top 3 pick imo. Williams is a legit LT prospect that will be mocked higher in the next coming months. Williams will be a nice player but he's not near as dynamic as Danold was and Oliver will test off of the charts compared to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-met57 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 On 12/28/2018 at 1:01 AM, RobR said: Williams is a legit LT prospect that will be mocked higher in the next coming months. Williams will be a nice player but he's not near as dynamic as Danold was and Oliver will test off of the charts compared to him. i hate to harp on this but he is not a LT, i literally cant find 1 evaluation saying he is going to be a good LT at the next level. https://www.profootballweekly.com/2018/08/22/greg-gabriel-early-2019-nfl-draft-breakdown-alabama-ot-jonah-williams/awzd8xt/ Quote An NFL offensive tackle has to be able to win the leverage game, and if he doesn’t have the physical traits required, he is better off inside. I believe that an NFL club can get by with Williams at tackle, but he can be a dominant guard — maybe even a Pro Bowl-caliber performer. I am not discounting Williams' talent, but if moved inside, he has a better chance to succeed at a high level. as far as quentin williams he is an absolute freak... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, k-met57 said: i hate to harp on this but he is not a LT, i literally cant find 1 evaluation saying he is going to be a good LT at the next level. https://www.profootballweekly.com/2018/08/22/greg-gabriel-early-2019-nfl-draft-breakdown-alabama-ot-jonah-williams/awzd8xt/ as far as quentin williams he is an absolute freak... My evaluation says he's a LT at the next level and I have a pretty good track record when it comes to Offensive Lineman over the years. My only concern with him as a LT will be his arm measurement. That's it. At this time of year I think many of these writers get lazy and just regurgitate what someone else says without even watching the player and it starts having a snowball effect. And no worries about harping on it, without the back and forth in this forum it would be boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet_Engine1 Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 17 minutes ago, RobR said: My evaluation says he's a LT at the next level and I have a pretty good track record when it comes to Offensive Lineman over the years. My only concern with him as a LT will be his arm measurement. That's it. At this time of year I think many of these writers get lazy and just regurgitate what someone else says without even watching the player and it starts having a snowball effect. And no worries about harping on it, without the back and forth in this forum it would be boring. Just curious, are you a former or current Football Coach? Not trying to be an ass, I'm genuinely curious if you have a background in coaching or scouting, and what your criteria is that you look for in a OT beyond the obvious (looking at youtube highlights and thinking, "wow, looks like he did a good job". I'd love to hear the opinion of an actual Football Coach/Scout on O linemen, and if thats your background, that would be awesome. I'm neither, I just watch the same videos and arbitrarily like or dislike a player based on how I thought he did, sometimes I see technique and quality play that jumps out at you (Darnold), and sometimes I think a guy is a stiff but surrounded by real talent (Gholston). LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 19 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said: Just curious, are you a former or current Football Coach? Not trying to be an ass, I'm genuinely curious if you have a background in coaching or scouting, and what your criteria is that you look for in a OT beyond the obvious (looking at youtube highlights and thinking, "wow, looks like he did a good job". I'd love to hear the opinion of an actual Football Coach/Scout on O linemen, and if thats your background, that would be awesome. I'm neither, I just watch the same videos and arbitrarily like or dislike a player based on how I thought he did, sometimes I see technique and quality play that jumps out at you (Darnold), and sometimes I think a guy is a stiff but surrounded by real talent (Gholston). LOL. I'm just a regular Joe that played the position back in HS a million years ago and was recruited by a few D1-AA schools but never played at the collegiate level. I was blessed back then to have an Offensive Line coach that played under Woody Hayes and I learned a ton from him. The only coaching I've ever done was at the peewee level. When it comes too evaluating players I never read what any beat writer puts out there.....ever. I always watch as much tape of the player and come to my own conclusion even if it goes against the consensus. I've been posting on these boards (not this one) for well over a decade and have done pretty well when it comes to evaluating Olineman as I'm sure some other posters will attest to. Of course I have my misses but they are few and far between when it comes to that position. When it comes to other positions like CB I absolutely suck at evals so I don't even do them anymore. Edit to add: When it comes to evaluating offensive lineman it is all about their feet and how they move......they either have it or they don't. Other aspects can be improved upon at the NFL level but their feet is the biggest tell in my evals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet_Engine1 Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 28 minutes ago, RobR said: I'm just a regular Joe that played the position back in HS a million years ago and was recruited by a few D1-AA schools but never played at the collegiate level. I was blessed back then to have an Offensive Line coach that played under Woody Hayes and I learned a ton from him. The only coaching I've ever done was at the peewee level. When it comes too evaluating players I never read what any beat writer puts out there.....ever. I always watch as much tape of the player and come to my own conclusion even if it goes against the consensus. I've been posting on these boards (not this one) for well over a decade and have done pretty well when it comes to evaluating Olineman as I'm sure some other posters will attest to. Of course I have my misses but they are few and far between when it comes to that position. When it comes to other positions like CB I absolutely suck at evals so I don't even do them anymore. Edit to add: When it comes to evaluating offensive lineman it is all about their feet and how they move......they either have it or they don't. Other aspects can be improved upon at the NFL level but their feet is the biggest tell in my evals. Thats serious credentialing as far as I'm concerned. Very cool. I've heard that feet, flexibility and leverage are what the real pros look for when scouting linemen.... Ever heard that Old Oline Coach that Pat Kirwin and Jimmy Miller have on all the time on Sirius radio? Cant remember his name... Does an awesome job breaking down and explaining blocking schemes. Thanks for the info, man. Really appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said: Thats serious credentialing as far as I'm concerned. Very cool. I've heard that feet, flexibility and leverage are what the real pros look for when scouting linemen.... Ever heard that Old Oline Coach that Pat Kirwin and Jimmy Miller have on all the time on Sirius radio? Cant remember his name... Does an awesome job breaking down and explaining blocking schemes. Thanks for the info, man. Really appreciate it. Never. I don't have Sirius radio and was never a big fan of Kirwan in the first place, especially when he was with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby2 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 I want our new GM to be RobR and Paradis as WR/TE consultant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-met57 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 26 minutes ago, Ruby2 said: I want our new GM to be RobR and Paradis as WR/TE consultant how much are you willing to pay for ASJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 14 hours ago, k-met57 said: how much are you willing to pay for ASJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Let's keep this thread on track with Quinnen talk because he's actually starting to get mocked to the Jets as early as #3. I really, really struggle with how I'd feel about that. In a scenario where Bosa and Clelin Ferrell go 1, 2 I'd likely prefer Josh Allen or a trade back. Also, that's some run on "Williams" from 3 to 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Werblin Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 On 12/30/2018 at 11:45 PM, jetstream23 said: Let's keep this thread on track with Quinnen talk because he's actually starting to get mocked to the Jets as early as #3. I really, really struggle with how I'd feel about that. In a scenario where Bosa and Clelin Ferrell go 1, 2 I'd likely prefer Josh Allen or a trade back. Also, that's some run on "Williams" from 3 to 5. Why does it have QW as a DE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Werblin Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I hope some team with lots of assets (Indy?) is hot for QW because most every draft simulation has him sitting there at 3, and IMO it is hard to justify taking any other player over him. If Mac (Hemmindinger) is doing his job, we pull the trigger on a trade with Indy to swap #1's and get a 2d and 3d round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lith Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 4 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said: I hope some team with lots of assets (Indy?) is hot for QW because most every draft simulation has him sitting there at 3, and IMO it is hard to justify taking any other player over him. If Mac (Hemmindinger) is doing his job, we pull the trigger on a trade with Indy to swap #1's and get a 2d and 3d round pick. GB is the team that I am hoping will fall in love with one of the defensive prospects -- with two #1 picks. Bottom 3rd of the league in scoring defense for 3 years running; maybe they will want to move up and get a stud DL at 3. Probably won't happen, I hope for a trade down most every year and it never gets done. But I would love to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 I’ll say this now, there is no circumstance in where I can happily draft Quinnen Williams this year. Not saying he isn’t a good prospect, just that I can’t stomach another interior defensive lineman with a premium pick. Maybe he can be Aaron Donald, maybe not, chances are he won’t be. Donald is exceptional, I don’t see that with Quinnnen. I would MUCH rather roll the dice on other positions of greater need and greater upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet_Engine1 Posted January 12, 2019 Author Share Posted January 12, 2019 4 hours ago, sec101row23 said: I’ll say this now, there is no circumstance in where I can happily draft Quinnen Williams this year. Not saying he isn’t a good prospect, just that I can’t stomach another interior defensive lineman with a premium pick. Maybe he can be Aaron Donald, maybe not, chances are he won’t be. Donald is exceptional, I don’t see that with Quinnnen. I would MUCH rather roll the dice on other positions of greater need and greater upside. Agree 100%. Q was "fine" in the NCG. Not good enough at 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Untouchable Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 5 hours ago, sec101row23 said: I’ll say this now, there is no circumstance in where I can happily draft Quinnen Williams this year. Not saying he isn’t a good prospect, just that I can’t stomach another interior defensive lineman with a premium pick. Maybe he can be Aaron Donald, maybe not, chances are he won’t be. Donald is exceptional, I don’t see that with Quinnnen. I would MUCH rather roll the dice on other positions of greater need and greater upside. I would be pretty “meh” on it. But if the Jets bring in Gregg Williams and we transition to more of a 4-3, I think it’s a sound pick. I don’t really see a guy like Josh Allen as a DE. Ferrell honestly seems like a better fit. But I think both Williams and Oliver have higher ceilings than Ferrell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 13 hours ago, sec101row23 said: I’ll say this now, there is no circumstance in where I can happily draft Quinnen Williams this year. Not saying he isn’t a good prospect, just that I can’t stomach another interior defensive lineman with a premium pick. Maybe he can be Aaron Donald, maybe not, chances are he won’t be. Donald is exceptional, I don’t see that with Quinnnen. I would MUCH rather roll the dice on other positions of greater need and greater upside. Oliver is the player we should be comparing to Donald not QW. I'd hate drafting defense again but if it's Oliver I'm all aboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Quinnen Williams Nick Bosa Josh Allen Ed Oliver Clelin Ferrell Jonah Williams Greedy Williams We need to trade down to #7. Any of those guys are worth the pick at 7 right now. Could probably add a couple more who are worth it. Bottom line - We need to trade back and accumulate a 2nd rounder so we can hit OLine or WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I'll literally blow a gasket if we draft williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 On 12/27/2018 at 11:34 PM, Jet_Engine1 said: Phuuuck. That guy has been a monster and has dominated......DOMINATED SEC O lines. He has surpassed Ed Oliver as best Interior Pass Rusher, and I love Olivers game, but hes a bit small for interior D line imo. I know, I know, we have to build the Offense around Darnold. We need O line desperately. But if Jonah Williams grades out as a OG/RT, and we cant trade back, do they reach for Jonah anyway, or take a guy that looks like Aaron freakin' Donald? I like Josh Allen, but Dee Ford may be available, and a front of Ford, Leo, Quinnen, etc in the front 7 could be a monster D. I know. DT. Again. Stupid. LOL, but that kid looks filthy, type of guy that would put up double digit sacks from the interior routinely. Type of player that wrecks game plans. Or maybe we can just beat the Pats and take him out of the equation, because hes a top 3 pick imo. True. Up to the Clemson game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Harper Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 On 1/10/2019 at 4:57 PM, Lith said: GB is the team that I am hoping will fall in love with one of the defensive prospects -- with two #1 picks. Bottom 3rd of the league in scoring defense for 3 years running; maybe they will want to move up and get a stud DL at 3. Probably won't happen, I hope for a trade down most every year and it never gets done. But I would love to see it. This could be the year we are able to trade down. Haven't picked this high in a while (other than last year, where we couldn't because we got our guy). Hoping some team will be in love with someone at 3 and we could pick up an extra first, minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 On 1/14/2019 at 11:12 PM, Beerfish said: I'll literally blow a gasket if we draft williams. Someone here is undoubtedly going to dress up as a gasket for Halloween if that happens. Not naming names... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I liked QW, but the interviews and highlights are wearing thin on me....especially given last year’s double-dipping at DT with Shep and Fok I’d prefer going DE (if Josh Allen is available) or shutdown CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 On 12/29/2018 at 7:44 PM, Jet_Engine1 said: Just curious, are you a former or current Football Coach? Not trying to be an ass, I'm genuinely curious if you have a background in coaching or scouting, and what your criteria is that you look for in a OT beyond the obvious (looking at youtube highlights and thinking, "wow, looks like he did a good job". I'd love to hear the opinion of an actual Football Coach/Scout on O linemen, and if thats your background, that would be awesome. I'm neither, I just watch the same videos and arbitrarily like or dislike a player based on how I thought he did, sometimes I see technique and quality play that jumps out at you (Darnold), and sometimes I think a guy is a stiff but surrounded by real talent (Gholston). LOL. The Quinnen videos are fantastic, almost scary. But the Quinnen Clemson game was a disappointment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LES Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 On 12/27/2018 at 11:34 PM, Jet_Engine1 said: Phuuuck. That guy has been a monster and has dominated......DOMINATED SEC O lines. He has surpassed Ed Oliver as best Interior Pass Rusher, and I love Olivers game, but hes a bit small for interior D line imo. I know, I know, we have to build the Offense around Darnold. We need O line desperately. But if Jonah Williams grades out as a OG/RT, and we cant trade back, do they reach for Jonah anyway, or take a guy that looks like Aaron freakin' Donald? I like Josh Allen, but Dee Ford may be available, and a front of Ford, Leo, Quinnen, etc in the front 7 could be a monster D. I know. DT. Again. Stupid. LOL, but that kid looks filthy, type of guy that would put up double digit sacks from the interior routinely. Type of player that wrecks game plans. Or maybe we can just beat the Pats and take him out of the equation, because hes a top 3 pick imo. A pox on your PC, iPhone, iPad or whatever you use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LES Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 On 12/29/2018 at 8:00 PM, RobR said: I'm just a regular Joe that played the position back in HS a million years ago and was recruited by a few D1-AA schools but never played at the collegiate level. I was blessed back then to have an Offensive Line coach that played under Woody Hayes and I learned a ton from him. The only coaching I've ever done was at the peewee level. What! You’re hired. Asst OLine coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 I am seeing more and more drafts that show Bosa/Allen going 1-2. If this plays out, and we can't get a trade down from someone who wants Haskins, then I think Q could very well be the pick. It feels very much like Leonard Williams again. He was by far the highest ranked prospect on the board at #6 who could have arguably gone #1 that year. Do you pass on an all-pro potential DT in favor of an OT who projects to be a really good RT or G? You could go DE with Ferrell perhaps but it's hard to go against taking the guy with the most upside (assuming you believe it). Aaron Donald has changed the way the league looks at interior linemen. If you think Q can be even almost that good, and he could finally give us a DLine that sacks the QB, then I'm good with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDL_JET Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 On 1/27/2019 at 1:43 PM, nycdan said: I am seeing more and more drafts that show Bosa/Allen going 1-2. If this plays out, and we can't get a trade down from someone who wants Haskins, then I think Q could very well be the pick. It feels very much like Leonard Williams again. He was by far the highest ranked prospect on the board at #6 who could have arguably gone #1 that year. Do you pass on an all-pro potential DT in favor of an OT who projects to be a really good RT or G? You could go DE with Ferrell perhaps but it's hard to go against taking the guy with the most upside (assuming you believe it). Aaron Donald has changed the way the league looks at interior linemen. If you think Q can be even almost that good, and he could finally give us a DLine that sacks the QB, then I'm good with that. Hell yeah I would. Add a piece to the oline to protect our franchise qb and give him more time in the pocket or grab a DT that could average 5-8 sacks a year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant wait Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 58 minutes ago, MDL_JET said: Hell yeah I would. Add a piece to the oline to protect our franchise qb and give him more time in the pocket or grab a DT that could average 5-8 sacks a year? the problem with drafting a G as high as #3 is that you still have to pay rookie scale so you’re still paying 8M a year for a rookie, and considering the highest paid guard in the league makes 13M a year you aren’t getting any value out of this pick unless he’s the best player in the league from day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 27 minutes ago, cant wait said: the problem with drafting a G as high as #3 is that you still have to pay rookie scale so you’re still paying 8M a year for a rookie, and considering the highest paid guard in the league makes 13M a year you aren’t getting any value out of this pick unless he’s the best player in the league from day 1 And there is no Quentin Nelson in this draft. Not even close. And sadly, there isn't a DBrick or a Mangold either. 3-4 OT prospects and one Interior prospect (Cody Ford) have possible 1st round grades but none of them really seem to be top-5 type players. I really don't see any way we could draft an OL if we were absolutely stuck at #3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDL_JET Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 51 minutes ago, cant wait said: the problem with drafting a G as high as #3 is that you still have to pay rookie scale so you’re still paying 8M a year for a rookie, and considering the highest paid guard in the league makes 13M a year you aren’t getting any value out of this pick unless he’s the best player in the league from day 1 Couldn’t you say that about any player you pick though? I mean im drafting an OL at 3 if I think he can make an immediate impact and elevate the OL play. Doesn’t have to be the best in the league right off the bat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant wait Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 26 minutes ago, MDL_JET said: Couldn’t you say that about any player you pick though? I mean im drafting an OL at 3 if I think he can make an immediate impact and elevate the OL play. Doesn’t have to be the best in the league right off the bat. yeah I mean of course even a decent guard is better than a complete bust from another position if you look at it that way. I’m just saying in terms of the value you’re getting from having a player on a rookie contract relative to what the rest of the league is paying. for example barkley was that guy last year going #2 overall but he was such a slam dunk in terms of talent that you could justify it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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