Ownership is the problem. Time to force Woody to sell Jets.

[southparkcpa]

19 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Another level of middle-management isn't the solution, and Nut says, we had "great" help and still got Macc and Bowles.

The solution is the traditional working structure of NFL Teams:

Owner, who hires---->President of Football Operations, who hires and is responsible for ----> General Manager, who hires and is responsible for ------> Scouts and the Head Coach, who (with GM oversight) hires and is responsible for -----> All Asst. Coaches and Training Staff.

Apart from hiring the Pres. of Football Ops, the Owner should stay out of all Football Decisions.

Apart from hiring the GM and acting as a support, the President of Football Ops should stay out of the details of coaching and player decisions, and guide the GM more from a 30 thousand foot view/franchise strategy standpoint. 

Etc.

The "Spit Reporting System/Offset Contract Terms" system the Jets run is a proven failure.

A BOD is middle management?  Really?  

[Warfish]

14 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

A BOD is middle management?  Really?  

It's unnecessary middle management for an NFL football team, yes.

You will never get our Owner to appoint some corporate suit types, give them HIS power, and then sit back and drink margaritas.

As such, the most a BOD can be is an additional, non-football, level of management between the Owner and who?  The GM?  The Pres. of Football Ops?

And a bunch of Harvard Suits are going to bring what football knowledge to the table?  Most likely nothing other than what they usually bring, more Corporate policies and hoops to jump through in the aim of cutting costs and maximizing profits.  Profit isn't this teams problem.

Trying to save a few bucks on travel or food or trainers will not a Super Bowl team make.  Having a Board of Directors treat the team like JCPenny or General Motors will not a Super Bowl team make.  

Hiring real, competent, Football management and creating a clear-cut linear structure of reporting and responsibility is what this franchise needs.

[Scott Dierking]

52 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Woody Johnson from the get go was in it for the money. 

He failed to build the NY Jets their own home stadium. 

Instead he took the cheap way out and partnered up with the NY Giants cheap owners. 

Florham Park is nice but he had no choice to do that as Hofsra  facilities were sub-par for NFL standards. 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but EVERY owner is in it for the money. 

Geez

[Jet Nut]

55 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

The Tebow trade was the buttfumble player personnel moves

meh, they thought he would be a help to the wildcat.  Nothing more.  It didnt work.  Nothing was spent other than a couple of dollars.

The overreaction is funny at best

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

meh, they thought he would be a help to the wildcat.  Nothing more.  It didnt work.  Nothing was spent other than a couple of dollars.

The overreaction is funny at best

They thought he would help become a marketing boon. Football logic was secondary. It really screwed up the order of things. BAD move.

[Jet Nut]

56 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

So? The Knicks are the 3rd or 4th most valuable franchise in all of sports and Dolan spends money is he a good owner?

ANd I was replying to a question on business, not wins and losses. 

And yes to your question.  If you spend money in the right places, as invested into areas that give positive returns, yes youre good from a business standpoint, bottom line sense.  What we were discussing.  If you increase your teams value from 1/2 B to 3 B, you did a good job.  I know that kills you

[BROOKLYN JET]

Do you think billboards on plains, trains and automobiles will get the job done? 

[dbatesman]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

If you increase your teams value from 1/2 B to 3 B, you did a good job. 

this is pathological

[southparkcpa]

24 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It's unnecessary middle management for an NFL football team, yes.

You will never get our Owner to appoint some corporate suit types, give them HIS power, and then sit back and drink margaritas.  

Hiring real, competent, Football management and creating a clear-cut linear structure of reporting and responsibility is what this franchise needs.

Truly qualified professionals would comprise a board that hires competent management .  Calling them suits is cute.    The process to hire Mac would have been voted on by say 7 people all of whom have run and managed companies and people.  They also would not have allowed the dysfunction .  Agreed.  He won’t do it.   I said I would if I had a team.  

[Jet Nut]

49 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

These people are NOT qualified to sit on the Board of a public company.  But  see your point, I simply think we need more rational, non emotional hiring.

My point is some aspects of the team are run like a public company with a board.  The draft is the perfect example where the GM acts like a CFO, gathers info from his board and ultimately makes his decision.  I get what youre saying.  The problem hasnt been the set up, its been those who are giving input or the person analyzing the info and making decisions.  

[Warfish]

31 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Truly qualified professionals would comprise a board that hires competent management .  Calling them suits is cute.

For example?  Who would you name as your top "qualified professional"?  Still sounds like you want dudes from other Corporate Boards reading below.

31 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

The process to hire Mac would have been voted on by say 7 people all of whom have run and managed companies and people.

I'll repeat, I don't think having people who were on the Boards of IBM, Sears, Apple, Wal-Mart and whomeevr else is the right route to go, on the contrary it'll either be a rubber stamp for the Owner/Head of the BOD or it will be an intractable mess of non-football people with differences of opinion of football decisions.  I'd hire dedicated fans before I'd hire corporate suits for such a body (although a fan group would certainly never agree, lol!) 

31 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

 They also would not have allowed the dysfunction .  

I disagree, corporate structures can be just as crazy-pants as the current Jets Structure.  Hell, half of the most senior members of one of the Big Three only seem to be there because they proposed dumber and dumber organizational structure full of mealy-mouthed corpspeak buzzwords like silo smashing, communal workspaces and non-lineal reporting structures.  

31 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Agreed.  He won’t do it.   I said I would if I had a team.  

Gotcha.  If I had a team, I'll go my route above, lineal, direct, no level with more than one decision maker, each sub-level responsible to the higher level individual.  

[southparkcpa]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

For example?  Who would you name as your top "qualified professional"?  Still sounds like you want dudes from other Corporate Boards reading below.

I'll repeat, I don't think having people who were on the Boards of IBM, Sears, Apple, Wal-Mart and whomeevr else is the right route to go, on the contrary it'll either be a rubber stamp for the Owner/Head of the BOD or it will be an intractable mess of non-football people with differences of opinion of football decisions.  I'd hire dedicated fans before I'd hire corporate suits for such a body (although a fan group would certainly never agree, lol!) 

I disagree, corporate structures can be just as crazy-pants as the current Jets Structure.  Hell, half of the most senior members of one of the Big Three only seem to be there because they proposed dumber and dumber organizational structure full of mealy-mouthed corpspeak buzzwords like silo smashing, communal workspaces and non-lineal reporting structures.  

Gotcha.  If I had a team, I'll go my route above, lineal, direct, no level with more than one decision maker, each sub-level responsible to the higher level individual.  

You clearly haven’t experienced how real boards work.   These people aren’t rubber stamping anything.  They are driven focused results people.   

[Warfish]

22 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

You clearly haven’t experienced how real boards work.

Perhaps our experiences simply differ.  

22 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

  These people aren’t rubber stamping anything.  They are driven focused results people.   

So I'll ask again, who would be an example of your "top qualified professional"? 

And how will this Board improve upon the traditional linear management of NFL teams?  What football knowledge will they bring to the table?  What does random Corporate Board Member X know about General Managing, the Salary Cap or Player Personnel management that can't be found in a football person?  And what on earth makes you think that Corporate Boards can't make mistakes the way Woody and his consultants have?  Corporate Boards make mistakes regularly.

[Maxman]

On 1/19/2020 at 8:50 PM, Mike135 said:

What has ownership done that's bad?

They're definitely not cheap and they seem to stay out of the football decisions.

I mean they spend as much as you can and got rid of midget stadium.

What else can you ask from ownership? 

They have interfered in football decisions, which is why Rhule isn't here.

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

Sorry to burst your bubble, but EVERY owner is in it for the money. 

Geez

Money and success of the team, some owners want and demand a winning product. 

Some owners take pride in the stadiums they built. 

You don't seem to to get it and i'm not surprised. 

Or is just about the argument for you. 

 

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, Maxman said:

They have interfered in football decisions, which is why Rhule isn't here.

Do you have a reputable source for this by chance?  Someone other than Mehta, preferably??

Don't get me wrong, I live in Dan Snyder-land, where he makes all the calls and meddles all the live long day.  Meddling Owners, I get.

But I've not seen any reporting nationally to confirm this "Johnsons vetoed Rhule" claim.  

Who was the source, media-wise, for this?  I'd like to read more (as an out of town fan).

 

[Scott Dierking]

3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Money and success of the team, some owners want and demand a winning product. 

Some owners take pride in the stadiums they built. 

You don't seem to to get it and i'm not surprised. 

Or is just about the argument for you. 

 

I said NOTHING about success of the team. Although, I would suggest that all owners want their franchises to succeed.

What I DID say is that all NFL owners are in the league to see their investment  multiply in value. YOU have shown nothing that counters that thought. Or, at least in a coherent manner.

The fact that you become so prickly when someone does not agree with your perspective is a whole other avenue. Despite you continuing saying on this site that you value others opinions. Your actions and impulses make it sure seem otherwise.

[bealeb319]

Not your team to sell. If you hate the owners and the way the team is run than like another team. Does your neighbor get to force you to sell your house because you don't like the way you decorated? These posts are absolutely rediculous.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[joewilly12]

8 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I said NOTHING about success of the team. Although, I would suggest that all owners want their franchises to succeed.

What I DID say is that all NFL owners are in the league to see their investment  multiply in value. YOU have shown nothing that counters that thought. Or, at least in a coherent manner.

The fact that you become so prickly when someone does not agree with your perspective is a whole other avenue. Despite you continuing saying on this site that you value others opinions. Your actions and impulses make it sure seem otherwise.

I have my opinions and you yours. 

Starting with Woody Johnson who I have met on numerous occasions and discussed the success of the team as being a key component in being an owner. We discussed success and consistently putting a winning product on the field. i also voiced my displeasure with the new shared stadium and the PSL's. 

I'm not the guy who smiles poses for selfies and autographs when I meet these people at events, functions or in public. They need to know whats really going on. 

The brief moment I met Christopher Johnson I felt he was put in a position to try and make things better. 

The fact that you seem to have all the answers and speak for the ownership tells me you are either brainwashed or part of the problem with many of the NY Jets fanbase who settle for mediocrity or failure. 

Fans are a big part of a teams success, fans spending money at the stadium or on merchandise equates to owners profits. 

MOST owners want to build a winning team with a state of the art stadium to keep the fans happy, here it seems not so much. 

[Savage69]

4 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

Not your team to sell. If you hate the owners and the way the team is run than like another team. Does your neighbor get to force you to sell your house because you don't like the way you decorated? These posts are absolutely ridiculous.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

The owner has to go rant makes some fans feel better..

[Scott Dierking]

6 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

I have my opinions and you yours. 

Starting with Woody Johnson who I have met on numerous occasions and discussed the success of the team as being a key component in being an owner. We discussed success and consistently putting a winning product on the field. i also voiced my displeasure with the new shared stadium and the PSL's. 

I'm not the guy who smiles poses for selfies and autographs when I meet these people at events, functions or in public. They need to know whats really going on. 

The brief moment I met Christopher Johnson I felt he was put in a position to try and make things better. 

The fact that you seem to have all the answers and speak for the ownership tells me you are either brainwashed or part of the problem with many of the NY Jets fanbase who settle for mediocrity or failure. 

Fans are a big part of a teams success, fans spending money at the stadium or on merchandise equates to owners profits. 

MOST owners want to build a winning team with a state of the art stadium to keep the fans happy, here it seems not so much. 

I don't think you are capable of understanding the points I was making.

That is ok.

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I don't think you are capable of understanding the points I was making.

That is ok.

Likewise Im sorry if you are having reading comprehension issues. 

Have someone read it to you and explain it. 

[Scott Dierking]

11 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Likewise Im sorry if you are having reading comprehension issues. 

Have someone read it to you and explain it. 

I promise you that the following are the priorities of EVERY NFL owner. In this order:

1. Maximizing the value of their investment.

2. Establishing a successful franchise.

3 (or somewhere down the list). Satisfying fans.

Hard truths, I know.

EDIT- I will amend this by saying the Green Bay Packers do not fit this model, as they have over 300,000 owners. Owners that have no right to anything, and is one of the biggest wastes of money there is.

[southparkcpa]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Perhaps our experiences simply differ.  

So I'll ask again, who would be an example of your "top qualified professional"? 

And how will this Board improve upon the traditional linear management of NFL teams?  What football knowledge will they bring to the table?  What does random Corporate Board Member X know about General Managing, the Salary Cap or Player Personnel management that can't be found in a football person?  And what on earth makes you think that Corporate Boards can't make mistakes the way Woody and his consultants have?  Corporate Boards make mistakes regularly.

I don't run in those circles but when you look at the boards of many Fortune 500 companies, those type people are available for a high profile position like this. Oh yes they can and do make mistakes, but a consensus of 7 people debating the process is more likely to succeed. I fully believe that Idzik and Mac would have been "outed" by a thorough hiring process.

[Jet Nut]

On 1/21/2020 at 2:00 PM, Warfish said:

Do you have a reputable source for this by chance?  Someone other than Mehta, preferably??

Don't get me wrong, I live in Dan Snyder-land, where he makes all the calls and meddles all the live long day.  Meddling Owners, I get.

But I've not seen any reporting nationally to confirm this "Johnsons vetoed Rhule" claim.  

Who was the source, media-wise, for this?  I'd like to read more (as an out of town fan).

 

The rumor was that they Jets, faced with the young Darnold wanted to know who Ruhle knew and would bring in as his OC.    When he named a collegiate offensive coach without any NFL experience the Jets asked him if he was open to bringing a OC with NFL coaching experience and he was apparently miffed.  Some still have an issue with this.  To me youre hiring a HC and those he brings on board.  Ruhle was never offered a job.  Ownership haters assume Johnson chased him off.  Nonsense, know one knows that he would have been offered the job with a NFL OC or not.

 

[Jet Nut]

On 1/21/2020 at 4:55 PM, southparkcpa said:

I don't run in those circles but when you look at the boards of many Fortune 500 companies, those type people are available for a high profile position like this. Oh yes they can and do make mistakes, but a consensus of 7 people debating the process is more likely to succeed. I fully believe that Idzik and Mac would have been "outed" by a thorough hiring process.

Name the one NFL team that is run with a BOD.  One, and dont give me GB.  Why would anyone thing that 5 CEOs with their hands in the mix can make a better decision that a single football expert charged with running FA and the draft.  Its like, we dont do it so its got to be good.  Youd be hard pressed to find more than a handful, if that even, with a VP of football operations above the GM that works or has worked.  Coughlin was everyones poster boy and he was a total failure.  

[Embrace the Suck]

[Embrace the Suck]

On 1/21/2020 at 12:42 PM, southparkcpa said:

Calling them suits is cute.

And yet it is often accurate. Corporate power and incompetence are not mutually exclusive. For instance I'm pretty sure a powerful politician's son was on a board of a company for which he knew nothing and couldn't speak the language.  What in Coffee Boy's reign as GM makes you think he was anything more than a net-worker that stuck around long enough to rise? Sort of like career government employees.

 

 

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Name the one NFL team that is run with a BOD.  One, and dont give me GB.  Why would anyone thing that 5 CEOs with their hands in the mix can make a better decision that a single football expert charged with running FA and the draft.  Its like, we dont do it so its got to be good.  Youd be hard pressed to find more than a handful, if that even, with a VP of football operations above the GM that works or has worked.  Coughlin was everyones poster boy and he was a total failure.  

If the Jets had Five CEO’s making team decisions over the past 5 years instead of Mac - the Jets would, without question, have a much better team.

I will say a good GM would probably be better than five CEO’s but they would also lessen the downside when you have someone so incompetent as Mac....

[Matt39]

On 1/21/2020 at 4:55 PM, southparkcpa said:

I don't run in those circles but when you look at the boards of many Fortune 500 companies, those type people are available for a high profile position like this. Oh yes they can and do make mistakes, but a consensus of 7 people debating the process is more likely to succeed. I fully believe that Idzik and Mac would have been "outed" by a thorough hiring process.

The Owner and President of the Jets had hiring parameters that basically eliminated the most qualified candidates from the jump- for reasons I'm sure we can speculate on. The business side of the house seems to stay behind the scenes, but they have the most power after the Johnson's. The new President was an internal hire. Football results are an afterthought. 

[southparkcpa]

21 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

And yet it is often accurate. Corporate power and incompetence are not mutually exclusive. For instance I'm pretty sure a powerful politician's son was on a board of a company for which he knew nothing and couldn't speak the language.  What in Coffee Boy's reign as GM makes you think he was anything more than a net-worker that stuck around long enough to rise? Sort of like career government employees.

 

 

Understood... but in my line of work, I have seen extremely smart people that make good decisions based on facts.   I’d have found that the majority of people who call upper management suits either work in government or simply don’t  see that to get a board seat on any public company, you generally bring some skill to the table.  Take Schultz of Starbucks.  You don’t think his opinion would bring value to a board?   Trust me I see your point... but 95 percent of the success in this world is controlled by suits for a good reason.  It’s brains and well brains. 

[southparkcpa]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The Owner and President of the Jets had hiring parameters that basically eliminated the most qualified candidates from the jump- for reasons I'm sure we can speculate on. The business side of the house seems to stay behind the scenes, but they have the most power after the Johnson's. The new President was an internal hire. Football results are an afterthought. 

A board would never allow that......

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Understood... but in my line of work, I have seen extremely smart people that make good decisions based on facts.   I’d have found that the majority of people who call upper management suits either work in government or simply don’t  see that to get a board seat on any public company, you generally bring some skill to the table.  Take Schultz of Starbucks.  You don’t think his opinion would bring value to a board?   Trust me I see your point... but 95 percent of the success in this world is controlled by suits for a good reason.  It’s brains and well brains. 

Positive results mean different things to different people. What are the goals of the Jets? Satisfying shareholders is a lot different than winning football games.

[southparkcpa]

28 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Positive results mean different things to different people. What are the goals of the Jets? Satisfying shareholders is a lot different than winning football games.

Winning would bring more money..... it’s hard work that requires top management,  That’s not Woody.  Unfortunately. 

[Matt39]

Just now, southparkcpa said:

Winning would bring more money..... it’s hard work that requires top management,  That’s not Woody.  Unfortunately. 

Woody has always been hesitant to pay above market for more qualified candidates in fear of being iced out of decision making. It's the reason Mangini was let go.