One Big Fat Jamal Adams Thread, It's All The Same Discussion, Anyway (MERGED ELEVENTY-BILLION)

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Likely to get you someone better than Adams?  Not really, but then again, we're talking about a mid-late 1st rounder we'd be getting.  Adams was taken 6th overall.

What you're ignoring is the upside if we nail the pick.  Say we get a best-case scenario and end up with a multi-year all-Pro at LT or WR.  Certainly then you'd be saying we got a heist by trading Adams for a 1st and perhaps a mid-rounder, no?  

I don't make decisions based only on upside but I also consider expected outcomes. Well except for when I throw away $2 for a powerball ticket after filling up.

[T0mShane]

Jamal’s very subtle post-Douglas presser Instagram update:

 

[slats]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

I am A-OK with trading Jamal for established players at "more impact positions." Of course some positions make a bigger impact. I just don't think trading an All Pro Bowl SS for a draft pick--any draft pick--is likely to get you someone better, even taking into account positional value. Some here like to conflate my position with being obtuse about position value (despite me acknowledging it again and again) or a love of Jamal (I'm happy to trade him).

If you trust your GM to draft well -at least in the first 20 picks- then flipping the low value SS for the much higher value WR/OT -on a rookie contract!- should be an absolute no brainer. Especially on a team whose talent is currently weighted heavily on the defensive side of the ball. 

Even if that player isn’t “better,” than PrezMal, overall, it’s still probably an upgrade for the Jets if that player is only a decent+ starter. It’s well worth the risk to help to evaluate Darnold properly and/or build the foundation for his successor. Jets have to join the rest of the league and start playing offense at some point. 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, slats said:

If you trust your GM to draft well -at least in the first 20 picks- then flipping the low value SS for the much higher value WR/OT -on a rookie contract!- should be an absolute no brainer. Especially on a team whose talent is currently weighted heavily on the defensive side of the ball. 

Even if that player isn’t “better,” than PrezMal, overall, it’s still probably an upgrade for the Jets if that player is only a decent+ starter. It’s well worth the risk to help to evaluate Darnold properly and/or build the foundation for his successor. Jets have to join the rest of the league and start playing offense at some point. 

I don't trust any GM to get value for an All Pro in the draft--absent a Hershel Walker haul. Certainly not a first time GM.

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, jgb said:

I don't make decisions based only on upside but I also consider expected outcomes. Well except for when I throw away $2 for a powerball ticket after filling up.

The downside of picking a disappointment in the 1st round is having a young, cheap player on team control for 4-5 years.  

The downside of keeping Adams around is spending $35M+ on the cap on an ILB and SS and restricting what you can do on offense.  

[slats]

Just now, jgb said:

I don't trust any GM to get value for an All Pro in the draft. Certainly not a first time GM.

Sorry man, but that’s just a nothing answer. The Jets just invested $18M guaranteed into Joe Douglas to be the man, because they believe he can be the man. You can’t handcuff him to a strong safety. You gotta let him do his job. You look at what you expect to be there at #17 (or wherever) and decide whether or not you can stick a pick there and then you do it. 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The downside of picking a disappointment in the 1st round is having a young, cheap player on team control for 4-5 years.  

The downside of keeping Adams around is spending $35M+ on the cap on an ILB and SS and restricting what you can do on offense.  

The downside of picking must include losing an All Pro, even if it's a "non impact position."

The other side must include that we have him under control for 3 more years. He hasn't held out, yet.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

Sorry man, but that’s just a nothing answer. The Jets just invested $18M guaranteed into Joe Douglas to be the man, because they believe he can be the man. You can’t handcuff him to a strong safety. You gotta let him do his job. You look at what you expect to be there at #17 (or wherever) and decide whether or not you can stick a pick there and then you do it. 

It's a truthful answer. He has 8 picks this year. I'd like a track record before I can endorse trading our best player for lotto tickets.

Not saying should handcuff him. He has Jamal under contract 3 years. Ride it out. Or trade him for established players.

Look this is academic because JD will do what he can. But this is an opinion board and my opinion is I wouldn't trade Jamal for draft picks, absent a ridiculous haul.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

The downside of picking must include losing an All Pro, even if it's a "non impact position."

The other side must include that we have him under control for 3 more years. He hasn't held out, yet.

A storm is coming, my friend.

[jgb]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

A storm is coming, my friend.

Clouds are gathering. We will see.

[HawkeyeJet]

Manish at least reads this board if not posts.  I've never been more convinced.  

@Jetsfan80 has probably uttered "premium position" more times than my wife tells me I'm not listening. ?

[jetstream23]

Just now, HawkeyeJet said:

Manish at least reads this board if not posts.  I've never been more convinced.  

@Jetsfan80 has probably uttered "premium position" more times than my wife tells me I'm not listening.

Wife:  "It's like I'm not even here!"

Me: "Sure, I'll have another beer."

 

[Defense Wins Championships]

3 hours ago, British Jet said:

As you asked...

Basically it’s impossible. 
 

 

This (above) is only one example on why I've talked up Jamal Adams (while other have ripped him apart).

I've mentioned his All-Rookie team selection honors of 2017 multiple times.

And that's only because he's been an NFL star since dating back to day one.

2017 All Rookie Team.

Offense Quarterback: Deshaun Watson, Houston Texans Running back: Kareem Hunt, Kansas City Chiefs Running back: Alvin Kamara, New Orleans Saints Wide receiver: Cooper Kupp, Los Angeles Rams Wide receiver: JuJu Smith-Schuster, Pittsburgh Steelers Tight end: Evan Engram, New York Giants Center: Pat Elflein, Minnesota Vikings Guard: Dan Feeney, Los Angeles Chargers Guard: Jermaine Eluemunor, Baltimore Ravens Guard: Ethan Pocic, Seattle Seahawks Tackle: Garett Bolles, Denver Broncos Tackle: Ryan Ramczyk, New Orleans Saints     Defense Defensive line: Derek Barnett, Philadelphia Eagles Defensive line: Myles Garrett, Cleveland Browns Defensive line: Carl Lawson, Cincinnati Bengals Defensive line: Dalvin Tomlinson, New York Giants Linebacker: Jarrad Davis, Detroit Lions Linebacker: Reuben Foster, San Francisco 49ers Linebacker: T. J. Watt, Pittsburgh Steelers Cornerback: Marshon Lattimore, New Orleans Saints Cornerback: Tre'Davious White, Buffalo Bills Safety: Jamal Adams, New York Jets Safety: Marcus Williams, New Orleans Saints

AFC's 2019 Pro Bowl Defense

Position	Starter(s)	Reserve(s)	Alternate(s)
Defensive end	99 J. J. Watt, Houston[12] 95 Myles Garrett, Cleveland

54 Melvin Ingram, LA Chargers 93 Calais Campbell, Jacksonville Defensive tackle 97 Geno Atkins, Cincinnati^[13]
99 Jurrell Casey, Tennessee^[14] 97 Cameron Heyward, Pittsburgh 95 Kyle Williams, Buffalo^[a][14]
98 Brandon Williams, Baltimore Outside linebacker 58 Von Miller, Denver
90 Jadeveon Clowney, Houston^[15] 55 Dee Ford, Kansas City 90 T. J. Watt, Pittsburgh Inside linebacker 57 C. J. Mosley, Baltimore 55 Benardrick McKinney, Houston   Cornerback 25 Xavien Howard, Miami
20 Jalen Ramsey, Jacksonville 24 Stephon Gilmore, New England^[d][16]
21 Denzel Ward, Cleveland 25 Chris Harris Jr., Denver Free safety 33 Derwin James, LA Chargers 32 Eric Weddle, Baltimore   Strong safety 33 Jamal Adams, NY Jets

AFC's 2020 Pro Bowl Defense

 

Position Starter(s) Reserve(s) Alternate(s) Defensive end 97 Joey Bosa, LA Chargers
55 Frank Clark, Kansas City^[d] 93 Calais Campbell, Jacksonville 54 Melvin Ingram, LA Chargers^[a]
41 Josh Allen, Jacksonville^[a] Defensive tackle 97 Cameron Heyward, Pittsburgh
95 Chris Jones, Kansas City^[d] 97 Geno Atkins, Cincinnati 99 Jurrell Casey, Tennessee Titans^[a] Outside linebacker 58 Von Miller, Denver
90 T. J. Watt, Pittsburgh 99 Matthew Judon, Baltimore   Inside linebacker 53 Darius Leonard, Indianapolis 54 Dont'a Hightower, New England 49 Tremaine Edmunds, Buffalo^[a] Cornerback 24 Stephon Gilmore, New England
27 Tre'Davious White, Buffalo 24 Marcus Peters, Baltimore
44 Marlon Humphrey, Baltimore 23 Joe Haden, Pittsburgh^[a][7] Free safety 39 Minkah Fitzpatrick, Pittsburgh 29 Earl Thomas, Baltimore   Strong safety 33 Jamal Adams, NY Jets  

 

Just a couple of reasons and examples of why Jerry Jones and Dallas were willing to waste a 1st Round Draft pick on him.

The reasons why Joe Douglas rejected his trade offering(s)

 and the reason's why I'm able to create these types of articles about Adams as of today (and you can't)...

 

But yet he's been labeled by certain types of Jet fans as nothing more than a non impact "BOX SAFETY"

Jamal Adams 

has already recorded

(throughout only a three year NFL playing career)

273 combined tackles.

210 solo tackles.

28 tackles for loss. 

25 passes defended. 

23 Quarterback Hits,

12.0 QB Sacks.

6.0 Fumbles Forced.

4.0 Fumble Recoveries.

2 INTs.

12.0 Turnovers Created.

2 Defensive TDs.

 

Vs.

Troy Polamalu

 2nd-3rd-4th seasons

2004-2006 (3 years).

Wouldn't even be fare to include Polamalu's rookie numbers of (2003).

Because he mostly sat the bench and started 0 games. 

266 combined tackles.

199 solo tackles.

17 tackles for loss. 

30 passes defended. 

7 Quarterback Hits.

5.0 QB Sacks.

3.0 Fumbles Forced.

2.0 Fumble Recoveries.

10 INTs.

15.0 Turnovers Created.

2 Defensive TDs.

Jamal Adams has as many career sacks 12.0 (after only 3 seasons). 

as

Troy Polamalu had his entire career 12.0. sacks (12 NFL seasons later).

Jamal after 3 years is better than Troy was after 4 years.

Jamal put up more tackles, more solo tackles, more impact plays behind the line of scrimmage for loss (drive stoppers), more Quarterbacks roughed up and hit, more QB's sacked, more fumbles forced, more fumble recoveries and more IMPACT PERFORMANCE PLAY than an All-Time great 4 years in.

Jamal Adams heading into 2017's draft was mentioned as #1 worthy.

Due to being a generational player @ his position.

3 Years later and already re-invented his position.

As an absolute DOG who plays every defensive position (outside of defensive end)

While roaming the entire field @ the same time.

Jamal Adams is to his Safety position as what Darrelle Revis was to his CB position. 

No CB ever, no not even Deion Sanders (before #24) ever reinvented his position by following opponents #1 WR's around  while one on one on an island; quite like how Revis once did it (#21 in Sanders would line up against #2 WR's while his DC's would roll coverage over to #1 WR's with double teams).

No Safety ever, no not even Troy Polamalu (before #33) ever reinvented his SECONDARY position by playing every position outside of D-Line, lining up all over the Defense, sacking QB's, hitting QB's, game changing tackles for loss behind the L.O,S and strong coverage grades all at the same time, quite like how Adams does it (this has never been seen before, it's never been done).

Ever. 

[British Jet]

[jgb]

4 hours ago, British Jet said:

As you asked...

Basically it’s impossible. 
 

 

But 46% of HOFers come from first round!

[British Jet]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

But 46% of HOFers come from first round!

Yeah but he explicitly asked for the rookies that make the Pro Bowl in their first year. It’s a very specific scenario. 
Not really sure why it’s relevant because Adams might have a year this coming year where he doesn’t make the Pro Bowl. It doesn’t mean he wasn’t valuable. 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, British Jet said:

Yeah but he explicitly asked for the rookies that make the Pro Bowl in their first year. It’s a very specific scenario. 
Not really sure why it’s relevant because Adams might have a year this coming year where he doesn’t make the Pro Bowl. It doesn’t mean he wasn’t valuable. 

The Jamal haters engage the type of analysis that begins with the conclusion.

[jgb]

19 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Manish at least reads this board if not posts.  I've never been more convinced.  

@Jetsfan80 has probably uttered "premium position" more times than my wife tells me I'm not listening. ?

@Maxman congrats. Can't believe this site went from the land of misfit toys to driving the national narrative of the team. ?‍♂️

[jgb]

21 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

 

 

 

 

Remember when the Honey Badger was available as a FA but Macc wasted a 6th overall on Jamal because Honey Badger knocked up Bowles' daughter and Bowles was too milquetoast to manage that?

[ZachEY]

26 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Manish at least reads this board if not posts.  I've never been more convinced.  

@Jetsfan80 has probably uttered "premium position" more times than my wife tells me I'm not listening. ?

He really doesn’t change very many games.

[Guilhermezmc]

Can we call the 49ers for that colts pick?

[SOJ]

Trade him straight up for Ngakoue! 

[Jetsfan80]

51 minutes ago, jgb said:

But 46% of HOFers come from first round!

Not quite the stat.

Among HOF players that were drafted, 46 % came from the 1st round. 

I.E. collecting 1st rounders when possible is never a bad thing.  Particularly if you're not trading away a QB, LT, EDGE or CB to get one.  The upside of a 1st rounder is huge.

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not quite the stat.

Among HOF players that were drafted, 46 % came from the 1st round. 

I.E. collecting 1st rounders when possible is never a bad thing.  Particularly if you're not trading away a QB, LT, EDGE or CB to get one.  The upside of a 1st rounder is huge.

But only 29% of starters come from first round. Also important to consider no?

[T0mShane]

42 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

He really doesn’t change very many games.

Well it’s not like he was going to use any quantifiable evidence to support his claim anyway. 

[Defense Wins Championships]

49 minutes ago, jgb said:

Remember when the Honey Badger was available as a FA but Macc wasted a 6th overall on Jamal because Honey Badger knocked up Bowles' daughter and Bowles was too milquetoast to manage that?

Yup.

And I remember Jamal Adams being a 1st team All-Pro last year

and

Mathieu holding his jock strap as the 2nd teamer (behind #33)

And I know that after only 3 years of play the Honey Badger's numbers/production/impact weren't even CLOSE to Jamal Adams 3 year numbers as of today. 

Looks like Macc made the right decision. 

Adams is almost 2x the player Tyrann was after 3 years. 

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

But only 29% of starters come from first round. Also important to consider no?

If that number is indeed true, of course.  There's risk embedded all over the draft.  That doesn't make me scared to avoid acquiring picks though.  

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Defense Wins Championships said:

Adams is almost 2x the player Tyrann was after 3 years. 

2x the player with 1/4 the INT's!!!

[ZachEY]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Well it’s not like he was going to use any quantifiable evidence to support his claim anyway. 

Stans: Jamal Adams is so good he transcends the safety position he’s a game changer.

Also, Stans: How can you expect Jamal Adams to make THIS defense better?

[jgb]

10 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Yup.

And I remember Jamal Adams being a 1st team All-Pro last year

and

Mathieu holding his jock strap as the 2nd teamer (behind #33)

And I know that after only 3 years of play the Honey Badger's numbers/production/impact weren't even CLOSE to Jamal Adams 3 year numbers as of today. 

Looks like Macc made the right decision. 

Adams is almost 2x the player Tyrann was after 3 years. 

No NFL starter is twice the player of any other NFL starter, except at QB. I’d prefer Watson and Honey Badger to Darnold and Adams.

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

No NFL starter is twice the player of any other NFL starter, except at QB. I’d prefer Watson and Honey Badger to Darnold and Adams.

Or even just Watson and the three 2nd rounders back!

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Or even just Watson and the three 2nd rounders back!

Touché!

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Touché!

Big question is whether I'd be OK with Macc still being here.  Because undoubtedly, if he landed Watson, he wouldn't have gotten fired last year. 

Tough one.  I'll say yes because Watson would have to last longer than Macc regardless.

[Defense Wins Championships]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

2x the player with 1/4 the INT's!!!

There is more to the game of Football than INT's, genius. 

I bet you would look at #24's INT Numbers and say he sucked because of a lack of INT's. 

You're not a little genius, are you? 

Why don't you...

Look at.....

tackles

solo tackles,

tackles for loss behind the line of scrimmage.

QB Hits,

Sacks,

Fumbles Forced,

Fumbles Recovered, 

Defensive TDs

Pro Bowls.

All Pros.

Because it shows me how clueless you are about DEFENSE?

And how Jamal Adams had him beat within each and every category known to man kind?

outside of a whopping 6 INTs

BUT WHO CREATED/FORCED THE MOST TURNOVERS YOU LITTLE GENIUS YOU

Jamal Adams 

273 combined tackles.

210 solo tackles.

28 tackles for loss. 

23 Quarterback Hits,

12.0 QB Sacks.

6.0 Fumbles Forced.

4.0 Fumble Recoveries.

2 INTs.

12.0 Turnovers Created.

2 Defensive TDs.

 Vs

Tyrann Mathieu

195 combined tackles.

180 solo tackles.

19 tackles for loss. 

10 Quarterback Hits.

2 QB Sacks.

2.0 Fumbles Forced.

1.0 Fumble Recoveries.

8 INTs.

11.0 Turnovers Created.

1 Defensive TD.

Jamal Adams with INTs/Forced Fumbles/Fumble Recoveries created 12 Defensive Turnovers compared to only 11 Turnovers Created by Tyrann Mathieu after 3 years of play. 

Jamal Adams also had more career TD's than little Tyrann. 

lol @ you. 

 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Big question is whether I'd be OK with Macc still being here.  Because undoubtedly, if he landed Watson, he wouldn't have gotten fired last year. 

Tough one.  

If he didn’t draft Hack and drafted Watson, he’d be a totally different guy so yes he’d be a good GM