For the Tackle Over WR Crowd (EDIT: Top WR vs 3rd or 4th OT)

[neckdemon]

2011 NY Jets : 3 probowl O-linemen - Brick, Mangold (hof'er?) and Moore, and Slauson who wasn't bad. 

8-8 missed play-offs, passing offense mediocre to bad. 

and with such a good o-line the run game was bad.....why??? shonn greene???

no it was the crap we had at wr (and qb but also wr) santonio homes and burress, lol. a flash in the pan and a washed ex-giant.

plus sanchez was 5th most sacked that year

 

edited the title because if we had a chance to get our top 1st or 2nd tackle pick then i'd go either way with it

[Beerfish]

Everything on offense starts with the oline.  You can't run and you can't pass.  All the lovely Wr do you no good if the QB has no time.

Nice sports car, but there are no tires.

[neckdemon]

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

Everything on offense starts with the oline.  You can't run and you can't pass.  All the lovely Wr do you no good if the QB has no time.

Nice sports car, but there are no tires.

so why were we such trash with such a great o-line this year? lets say not no tires, but mid-grade tires. better than having water in your gas

[Jetsfan80]

Why are you singling out the 2011 team specifically?

[Jetsfan80]

Here's the real reasons why OT over WR, where possible, makes sense:

1.  It's much harder to find quality OT's outside of the 1st round, historically.  

2.  The hit rate on 2nd round WR's is nearly as good as 1st round WR's.  You're just not likely going to find a future HOF WR in the 2nd round.

3.  In this particular draft, there are a bunch of potential future WR1s that will be available in Round 2.  

[neckdemon]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Why are you singling out the 2011 team specifically?

because the oline was great that year and the wrs were trash.

[neckdemon]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Here's the real reasons why OT over WR, where possible, makes sense:

1.  It's much harder to find quality OT's outside of the 1st round, historically.  

2.  The hit rate on 2nd round WR's is nearly as good as 1st round WR's.  You're just not likely going to find a future HOF WR in the 2nd round.

3.  In this particular draft, there are a bunch of potential future WR1s that will be available in Round 2.  

i mean i'll be ok with it, as long as its not defense i'm fine. but our wrs are so bad i think its glaringly worse than our oline. 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, neckdemon said:

because the oline was great that year and the wrs were trash.

The passing game as a whole was trash from 2009-2012 because of Mark Sanchez.

The talent level of the receivers weren't to blame for any of that.  

[Embrace the Suck]

Um the oline wasn't great, but ok lets play. Give that team better wr's and take away Mangold.... Oh, that's right, when Mangold did get hurt and missed some time the entire offense fell apart.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, neckdemon said:

i mean i'll be ok with it, as long as its not defense i'm fine. but our wrs are so bad i think its glaringly worse than our oline. 

I want to double dip at WR.  One in the 2nd, one in the 3rd.  

It's not about avoiding WR.  It's about getting them at the right time.  

[southtown24th]

8 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Everything on offense starts with the oline.  You can't run and you can't pass.  All the lovely Wr do you no good if the QB has no time.

Nice sports car, but there are no tires.

EVERYTHING in an NFL franchise starts with OL...anyone who tells you otherwise is a complete and utter moron.

[Adoni Beast]

If you have a great OL and an eh QB, you’ll still move the ball and up around .500.

Great OL + Good QB, you’re a contender.

[JetsFanShawn]

they need a line LG RG DL  first then they need to get darnold some WR TE RB 

[ChuckkieB]

My preference is a WR @11, but this draft is so deep at WR that getting one @48 can still produce a likely day one starter, and I think most of us would be fine with that.  It has to be OL, WR though with the first two picks.

[neckdemon]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The passing game as a whole was trash from 2009-2012 because of Mark Sanchez.

The talent level of the receivers weren't to blame for any of that.  

true sanchez wasn't great but our wrs were cotchery, edwards, holmes and burress. meanwhile we had some really great olines . mangold, brick, faneca, moore. and even with a top of the league run game in 2009 our passing game was complete trash. the receivers get some of that blame as they were trash. our best skill player was thomas jones, who was good. right now our best skill player is bell. sounds pretty similar. building a competent o-line is definitely a must. but you can do that without a top tier left tackle. our receving group might be the worst in the league

[kdels62]

If Sanchez was the 5th most sacked that year, are you sure the OL was good? Was that the Wayne Hunter year? Didn't Sanchez throw for 26 TDs and run for like 6 TDs? That's a weird year to pick considering out defense was 20th in points against and our offense was actually pretty good at putting up points. 

[Beerfish]

Great lines make guys like Sanchez and dak prescott rich people.

Awful olines knock hot prospect QBs right out of the league.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, kdels62 said:

If Sanchez was the 5th most sacked that year, are you sure the OL was good? 

Sacks taken are more of a QB statistic than an OL statistic.

Sanchez was notorious for holding onto the ball for too long.  He had no ability to "throw receivers open", and he was a slow processor.  

[kdels62]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Sacks taken are more of a QB statistic than an OL statistic.

Sanchez was notorious for holding onto the ball for too long.  He had no ability to "throw receivers open", and he was a slow processor.  

So Sam Darnold sucks?

[neckdemon]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I want to double dip at WR.  One in the 2nd, one in the 3rd.  

It's not about avoiding WR.  It's about getting them at the right time.  

if one of the top 2 oline on douglas board is there....sure. but if not and jeudy or lamb are there it has to be the pick

[neckdemon]

2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

If Sanchez was the 5th most sacked that year, are you sure the OL was good? Was that the Wayne Hunter year? Didn't Sanchez throw for 26 TDs and run for like 6 TDs? That's a weird year to pick considering out defense was 20th in points against and our offense was actually pretty good at putting up points. 

3 probowlers says it was pretty decent. i don't have a memory good enough to remember but with the crap we had at wr probably a good number of coverage sacks

[neckdemon]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Sacks taken are more of a QB statistic than an OL statistic.

Sanchez was notorious for holding onto the ball for too long.  He had no ability to "throw receivers open", and he was a slow processor.  

can't throw sh*tty receivers open. not saying sanchez wasn't to blame at all. the point is with a really good o-line and crappy receivers that was the outcome. crappy qb also, but we dont know what we have in darnold now anyway. argument can actually be made to draft a qb

[southtown24th]

5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Great lines make guys like Sanchez and dak prescott rich people.

Awful olines knock hot prospect QBs right out of the league.

BINGO! 

another genius.

[Jets723]

Personally I’m fine with either.  Yes the draft is deep in WR but depending on how the top 10 goes or if the type of OL Douglas wants I would be fine getting Jeudy/Lamb/Ruggs

[TNJet]

Yeahhh we sucked at rushing because we had crap wrs gotcha.

[kdels62]

Just now, neckdemon said:

3 probowlers says it was pretty decent. i don't have a memory good enough to remember but with the crap we had at wr probably a good number of coverage sacks

We put up more points that year than we did the 2 years before and we replaced Alan Faneca with Matt Slausen  and Damien Woody with Wayne Hunter. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

can't throw sh*tty receivers open. not saying sanchez wasn't to blame at all. the point is with a really good o-line and crappy receivers that was the outcome. crappy qb also, but we dont know what we have in darnold now anyway. argument can actually be made to draft a qb

Sanchez couldn't throw receivers open in 2009 or 2010 either.  He couldn't do it at his next stops either.  

Darnold has shown ability in that area his first 2 seasons.  

I'm not saying you're wrong from a general philosophy point of view, only pointing out that  the 2011 Jets and Mark Sanchez aren't the best ways to make that point.

[TNJet]

8 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Great lines make guys like Sanchez and dak prescott rich people.

Awful olines knock hot prospect QBs right out of the league.

Yep. Great lines get Mark Sanchez 1 game away from the Super bowl 2 years in a row.

[Barry McCockinner]

26 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

2011 NY Jets : 3 probowl O-linemen - Brick, Mangold (hof'er?) and Moore, and Slauson who wasn't bad. 

8-8 missed play-offs, passing offense mediocre to bad. 

and with such a good o-line the run game was bad.....why??? shonn greene???

no it was the crap we had at wr (and qb but also wr) santonio homes and burress, lol. a flash in the pan and a washed ex-giant.

plus sanchez was 5th most sacked that year

 

lmfao

Did you forget about 2009 & 2010? 

Honestly one of the worst takes I've seen on here, and that's something special. So congrats to you bro.

[neckdemon]

2 minutes ago, TNJet said:

Yeahhh we sucked at rushing because we had crap wrs gotcha.

well when a defense isn't worried about your passing game they stack the box constantly

[68JET11]

So exhausted trying to convince stupid people that football is won or lost in the trenches.... Yes you need a good QB also.

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

So Sam Darnold sucks?

His floor is Andy Dalton.  Sanchez's floor was worst QB in the league.

[TNJet]

12 minutes ago, JetsFanShawn said:

they need a line LG RG DL  first then they need to get darnold some WR TE RB 

No they need LT, G/C, Wr, CB, RB, OLB

TE and Dline we don't need at all.

[neckdemon]

2 minutes ago, TNJet said:

Yep. Great lines get Mark Sanchez 1 game away from the Super bowl 2 years in a row.

no...that would be due to great defense

[Grandy]

And the Eagles just made the playoffs with a top O-line while not having a receiver over 500 yards.

It works both ways.