Zach Wilson Deep Dive

[Charlie Brown]

Yea professional deep dive on Zach Wilson.... 

Sweet Listen ... Teaser his coach  thinks he is more talwnted than Rogers..

 

[T0mShane]

#DeepState

 

[PS17]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

#DeepState

 

You’re loving this, aren’t you.

[Joe W. Namath]

Outside of Joe Namath, Wilson is by far the most talented qb we have ever had.

What an exciting time to be a jet fan.

[More Cowbell]

19 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Outside of Joe Namath, Wilson is by far the most talented qb we have ever had.

What an exciting time to be a jet fan.

 

Maybe he should play a game first?

First off Namath was slightly above average and he isn't  more talented than Favre. 

[DepressedJetsFan23]

Think I lost faith in these “expert” analysis videos after the Darnold experience 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Outside of Joe Namath, Wilson is by far the most talented qb we have ever had.

What an exciting time to be a jet fan.

Based on what. Serious question 

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

 

Maybe he should play a game first?

First off Namath was slightly above average and he isn't  more talented than Favre. 

Jets fans hate their heroes (Namath, C-Mart, Revis, Gastineau) and adore their JAGS. Weird.

[More Cowbell]

12 minutes ago, jgb said:

Based on what. Serious question 

Jets fans hate their heroes (Namath, C-Mart, Revis, Gastineau) and adore their JAGS. Weird.

Namath was totally a hero Jet but the numbers don't  say he was a great QB.

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Namath was totally a hero Jet but the numbers don't  say he was a great QB.

We still have people defending Darnold and he had the worst numbers in the league over a three year period. Sufficed to say Jets fans don’t seem to put much stock in the numbers 

[Joe W. Namath]

5 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Namath was totally a hero Jet but the numbers don't  say he was a great QB.

I said nothing about numbers.  Pure talent wise its Namath then wilson and whosever 3rd isnt close to these 2.

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

I said nothing about numbers.  Pure talent wise its Namath then wilson and whosever 3rd isnt close to these 2.

I struggle to see how that conclusion can be drawn based on: (1) the vagaries of extrapolating college performance to pro performance for QBs;  (2) that Wilson is a one year wonder in a season with a cupcake schedule; and (3) that he looks like an airbrushed Jimmy Clausen.

[Death2NE]

I struggle to see how that conclusion can be drawn based on: (1) the vagaries of extrapolating college performance to pro performance for QBs;  (2) that Wilson is a one year wonder in a season with a cupcake schedule; and (3) that he looks like an airbrushed Jimmy Clausen.

He probably gave up but I can’t so I’ll reiterate his point . 2nd most TALENTED qb . Not stats , not wins/losses , not longevity , not cup size , not philosophical principles . TALENT . I hate Lebron James and every mention of how he’d be a dominant tight end as if it’s just that easy to change sports but he’d probably be the top or top 3 most TALENTED tight end in football .


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Alworth]

17 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

 

Maybe he should play a game first?

First off Namath was slightly above average and he isn't  more talented than Favre. 

       I agree about Wilson.

        But as to Namath, his performance never matched what he could have done with good knees--badly injured at Alabama and them in '70, badly injured again as a pro (modern med techniques not available) But the talent level is second to none at the position--Elway, Favre, Rogers and Mahomes included. Please read what Bear Bryant said about him, the famous Jim Trimble pre-draft scouting report, the comments of his player,coaching and management contemporaries, and even the admiring comments of non-Jet fans who have posted here or at Jet Nation such as the famous Pats Fan Tex.

     By the way I was at Shea to see my guy Alworth play against Joe several times. You want excitement, that was excitement from both of them.

[jgb]

35 minutes ago, Death2NE said:

 

He probably gave up but I can’t so I’ll reiterate his point . 2nd most TALENTED qb . Not stats , not wins/losses , not longevity , not cup size , not philosophical principles . TALENT . I hate Lebron James and every mention of how he’d be a dominant tight end as if it’s just that easy to change sports but he’d probably be the top or top 3 most TALENTED tight end in football .


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Maybe you have a gift that so few do: to recognize what in a college QB makes him a great pro.

I hope you do.

[Claymation]

21 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

 

Maybe he should play a game first?

First off Namath was slightly above average and he isn't  more talented than Favre. 

Namath is the 1st QB to throw for over 4000 yards in a season in either the NFL & AFL.

And he did that in 14 games in an era where 5 yard contact rule was non-existent. I always wonder how many QBs in this generation would have thrown 4000 yards in 14 games let alone survived with hits to the knees.

[More Cowbell]

17 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Namath is the 1st QB to throw for over 4000 yards in a season in either the NFL & AFL.

And he did that in 14 games in an era where 5 yard contact rule was non-existent. I always wonder how many QBs in this generation would have thrown 4000 yards in 14 games let alone survived with hits to the knees.

Life time stats. 50% passer, 176 TD to 220 picks, 7.4 yards per attempt. 

[DetroitRed]

17 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Life time stats. 50% passer, 176 TD to 220 picks, 7.4 yards per attempt. 

And the most impactful win in NFL history 

[More Cowbell]

32 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

And the most impactful win in NFL history 

Joe was an NFL and Jets hero, no doubt.

[jgb]

On 5/17/2021 at 1:41 AM, More Cowbell said:

Life time stats. 50% passer, 176 TD to 220 picks, 7.4 yards per attempt. 

Johnny Unitas -- considered by most to be on the Mount Rushmore of NFL all-time great QBs -- was a 55% passer with a 1.14 TD/INT ratio. It was a different game.

[kelticwizard]

On 5/16/2021 at 7:41 PM, More Cowbell said:

Life time stats. 50% passer, 176 TD to 220 picks, 7.4 yards per attempt. 

Back then, quarterbacks threw mainly to wide receivers, not backs.  Damn little of this "complete the pass behind the line of scrimmage and then run for the yardage" business at all.  He threw the ball downfield, and while a pick is never good, Namath's picks were 25 or 30 yards past the line of scrimmage and the result is usually not much different from a punt.

 

In today's short passing offenses, a pick is usually made 5 yards past the line of scrimmage.  Three steps and the defender is past the line and headed for the end zone.

[jgb]

On 5/17/2021 at 1:23 AM, Claymation said:

Namath is the 1st QB to throw for over 4000 yards in a season in either the NFL & AFL.

And he did that in 14 games in an era where 5 yard contact rule was non-existent. I always wonder how many QBs in this generation would have thrown 4000 yards in 14 games let alone survived with hits to the knees.

Jets had the first 4,000 yards passer in pro football and haven't had one since. How depressing is that?

And now the Jets will be the answer to a trivia question forever as one of the two teams (along with the Bears) who never had a 4,000 passer in a 16-game era. Eagles got in right under the wire with Wentz's 4,000 yard season in 2019.

[Biggs]

On 5/15/2021 at 10:57 PM, Joe W. Namath said:

I said nothing about numbers.  Pure talent wise its Namath then wilson and whosever 3rd isnt close to these 2.

Brett Favre says hi. 

[The Crusher]

On 5/15/2021 at 10:37 PM, jgb said:

Based on what. Serious question 

Jets fans hate their heroes (Namath, C-Mart, Revis, Gastineau) and adore their JAGS. Weird.

Who’s heroes Johnny?

[jgb]

10 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Who’s heroes Johnny?

Jets traded Revis, that's why he was even available to become a Patriot. It's like dumping a girlfriend and getting butthurt that she finds someone better.

I'm not saying it was wrong to trade him, only that hating him for becoming a Pat makes zero sense. If your employer dumped your contract, would you reject an offer from a competitor out of "loyalty?" 

[The Crusher]

9 minutes ago, jgb said:

Jets traded Revis, that's why he was even available to become a Patriot. You know why? Because he wanted to be paid. Jets fans hate players who want to get paid. Good players expect to be paid. 

It's like dumping a girlfriend and getting butthurt that she finds someone better.

If that’s a hero to you then I’m cool. That’s what we were taking about after all.  He’s a Pats icon in my opinion. I 100% agree the other three were Jets hero’s. 
 

 

 

 

 

[jgb]

23 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

If that’s a hero to you then I’m cool. That s what we were taking about. He’s a Pats icon in my opinion. 
 

 

 

 

 

Three time, first team All Pro for the Jets and in 2009 he turned in the most dominant year a CB ever had -- maybe even the most dominant year for a defensive player ever. Still boils me that he was robbed for DPOTY because Woodson had more flashy stats with a lot of INTs. Without Revis, Rex's defense doesn't work. Without Rex's defense, Jets don't make two AFC-C games and maybe don't even make the playoffs.

Yes, he is a Jets hero and will probably (I hope) go into the HOF as a Jet. Unless you're one of those "superbowl or failure" guys and don't recognize any Jets players post-1969.

But I sure bet you have nothing but good things to say about Chrebet.

[Warfish]

On 5/15/2021 at 9:02 PM, Joe W. Namath said:

Outside of Joe Namath, Wilson is by far the most talented qb we have ever had.

What an exciting time to be a jet fan.

On one hand, you seemed to doubt Sam Darnold right from the start and didn't really want him.

On the other, you though Josh Rosen was the best QB of that draft class.

[Warfish]

On 5/15/2021 at 10:37 PM, jgb said:

Jets fans hate their heroes (Namath, C-Mart, Revis, Gastineau) and adore their JAGS. Weird.

I don't think that's accurate, and I in part would question your list of "Heroes"

Gastineau for example, may be a small subset of Jets Fans hero, but most would say Klecko over him, and pretty much everyone loves Klecko.

I don't think a single poster here "hates" Joe Namath.  They may have differing views on his greatness, or where he ranks amongst HOF QB's, but no one I've seen, myself included, "hates" him.

Apart from Savage, I've never even seen someone be critical of Curtis Martin.  

More, many of the Jets from 69' are beloved to this day, as are many of the Jets of the 80's (Toon, Walker, etc.) and the Parcells-to-Rex period (Chrebet, Mangold, Brick, etc.).  

Revis is divisive for a few reasons.  He was deeply mercenary, and his holdouts and constant requests for more hurt the team a number of times.  He went and played for the Pats, our hated rival, and won a title with them.  That doesn't earn him love here.  And he came back and basically did nothing and stole a paycheck.  And yet, I'd still say ~50% of Jets Fans hold him in very high regard universally, and even those who dislike his mercenary and Pats time, still think of him as one of the best CB's of his era.  

Don't get me wrong, Jets Fans DO have a very weird obsession with UDFA's and JAG's.  Personally I think it's just the New Yorker mindset, NY is full of people with 'little man syndrome' with endless chips on their shoulders about almost everything, so when they see a player who isn't well considered do anything decent, they jump all over it.  UDFA's like Robby feed right into that.

But no, I don't think we hate our Heroes, and I think we'd be fine paying players if those players moved the needle (Adams did not) or didn't ask for more every year (like Revis).  Ultimately, this is an issue every team faces, most fanbases get testy when a guy demands alot more money before his contract is up for resigning.  I don't think that is NY specific.

[jgb]

13 minutes ago, Warfish said:

On one hand, you seemed to doubt Sam Darnold right from the start and didn't really want him.

On the other, you though Josh Rosen was the best QB of that draft class.

Everyone can and has been wrong about players. I don't fault him for that. What I question is what he's basing his opinion on. He hasn't given an answer. If it's a gut feel he should just say that.

[The Crusher]

16 minutes ago, jgb said:

Three time, first team All Pro for the Jets and in 2009 he turned in the most dominant year a CB ever had -- maybe even the most dominant year for a defensive player ever. Still boiled me that he was robbed for DPOTY because Woodson had more flashy stats with a lot of INTs. Without Revis, Rex's defense doesn't work. Without Rex's defense, Jets don't make two AFC-C games and maybe don't even make the playoffs.

Yes, he is a Jets hero and will probably (I hope) go into the HOF as a Jet. Unless you're one of those "superbowl or failure" guys and don't recognize any Jets players post-1969.

But I sure bet you have nothing but good things to say about Chrebet.

Was he the best player Jets drafted? Yeah sure. Was he fun to watch when he wasn’t holding out or coming into camp out of shape? Absolutely. Guy was a mercenary and a damn good one. But not even close to a Jets hero. All he used the Jets for was to pad his pockets, totally his right to do so. But, far from makes him a Jets hero. I couldn’t care less what team he go’s into the hall as. 

[#27TheDominator]

Jets fans don't hate their heroes.  They just hate mine!

[jgb]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I don't think that's accurate, and I in part would question your list of "Heroes"

Gastineau for example, may be a small subset of Jets Fans hero, but most would say Klecko over him, and pretty much everyone loves Klecko.

I don't think a single poster here "hates" Joe Namath.  They may have differing views on his greatness, or where he ranks amongst HOF QB's, but no one I've seen, myself included, "hates" him.

Apart from Savage, I've never even seen someone be critical of Curtis Martin.  

More, many of the Jets from 69' are beloved to this day, as are many of the Jets of the 80's (Toon, Walker, etc.) and the Parcells-to-Rex period (Chrebet, Mangold, Brick, etc.).  

Revis is divisive for a few reasons.  He was deeply mercenary, and his holdouts and constant requests for more hurt the team a number of times.  He went and played for the Pats, our hated rival, and won a title with them.  That doesn't earn him love here.  And he came back and basically did nothing and stole a paycheck.  And yet, I'd still say ~50% of Jets Fans hold him in very high regard universally, and even those who dislike his mercenary and Pats time, still think of him as one of the best CB's of his era.  

Don't get me wrong, Jets Fans DO have a very weird obsession with UDFA's and JAG's.  Personally I think it's just the New Yorker mindset, NY is full of people with 'little man syndrome' with endless chips on their shoulders about almost everything, so when they see a player who isn't well considered do anything decent, they jump all over it.  UDFA's like Robby feed right into that.

But no, I don't think we hate our Heroes, and I think we'd be fine paying players if those players moved the needle (Adams did not) or didn't ask for more every year (like Revis).  Ultimately, this is an issue every team faces, most fanbases get testy when a guy demands alot more money before his contract is up for resigning.  I don't think that is NY specific.

I will grant "hate" is not the literal emotion in all cases (no for Namath and Martin; yes for Revis and Adams; 50/50 on Gastineau) but this is a messageboard and I don't want to write a lengthy explanation for the complex relationship fans have with our all-time greats every time it comes up. If people can't separate the shorthand for the literal, I'm not going to make it my mission to explain the Internet to them.

Regarding C-Mart, just do a search on this board for "complier" and you'll see it's a lot more than just Savage.

I like your point about the UDFA thing. Riddle akin to the "irresistible force meets unmovable object" thought experiment. When do New Yorkers -- with their natural affinity for underdogs -- turn against an UDFA? When he wants to get paid. Exhibit A: Robbie.

[#27TheDominator]

If Namath and Lamonica were 32 year old free agents in 2021, they would be signing contracts for $45M per.  The idea those guys weren't awesome because Kirk Cousins has better stats is a joke.

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Jets fans don't hate their heroes.  They just hate mine!

In context of sports, I like great players. Don't care about "nice guys."

I also respect Revis' mercenary ways. I enjoyed watching him out negotiate several stooge GMs in a row. Hoped it would teach the Johnsons to stop hiring mooks. It didn't. But I 100% side with the player to get as much as they absolutely can at all times. A team knows no loyalty and will cut and dump your contract as soon as it makes sense for them. Players who take less money than they can squeeze are subsidizing billionaires who don't need it or deserve it. I want the team to win, of course, but I try to maximize my own bonus, only a hypocrite would say different rules apply because NFL players ply their trade under lights.

[jgb]

11 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Was he the best player Jets drafted? Yeah sure. Was he fun to watch when he wasn’t holding out or coming into camp out of shape? Absolutely. Guy was a mercenary and a damn good one. But not even close to a Jets hero. All he used the Jets for was to pad his pockets, totally his right to do so. But, far from makes him a Jets hero. I couldn’t care less what team he go’s into the hall as. 

Ok then who to you are the "real" Jets heroes? (Guessing here) Namath and Chrebet -- who else?