What is funnier in this Panthers 1st day of mini camp article?

[kelticwizard]

5 hours ago, jgb said:

But Sam is such a good kid and only 24 years old!!! Plus Drew Brees did good in NO after beating Philip Rivers (a borderline HOFer himself) twice in camp, getting franchised, and then rejecting a long term deal to stay in San Diego. It’s like, exactly the same situation as Sam!!

Brees didn't reject any franchise deal after he went 2-9 in his third year.  He rejected it after he turned it around in his fourth year.  For his first three years Brees was worse than Sam, even though he had LaDainian Tomlinson in his backfield to take the heat off.

Please adjust your narrative to fit the facts. 

[kelticwizard]

On 7/1/2021 at 2:33 AM, kelticwizard said:

And if the Panthers win 10 games next year, what happens then?

 

On 7/1/2021 at 10:18 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

Maybe the rivers, lakes and oceans of the world will turn to chocolate, too!

Have it your way.  But if the Panthers win 10 or more games next year, I hope you don't mind if I call you Count Chocula from then on.

[kelticwizard]

22 hours ago, jgb said:

You keep asking how do I know. Again, for like the 5th time: I don’t know. But I’m quite sure. Everyone raises Drew Brees in the support-of-Sam discussion. Why? Because there aren't many examples to choose from that come close to fitting. That’s an extreme outlier. The odds of Sam turning it around are very low, even if we assume there are similarities between Sam's and Brees' Chargers situation, which there are very few, if any at all. I'm playing the odds.

If you're going against the odds, you can't just cite one guy who had a turnaround 20 years ago. 

Obviously there are more failures than successes among QBs who do badly their first 3 years, but it is far from only  Drew Brees being the exception.  In addition to Steve Young whom I and others mentioned, there are Phil Simms, who sucked his first 5 years, (he got beaten out by Scott Brunner one of those years), Terry Bradshaw, who sucked for his first four, and Eli Manning who had Giants sportswriters and fans openly advocating the Giants move on from him during his third year.  I'm sure there are others if I take the time to think about it.

[kelticwizard]

22 hours ago, jgb said:

Would be happy to do a friendly charity bet around Sam's future, that way a good cause wins regardless of who is right.  

You're on.  How about the loser pays a $25 contribution to the winner's favorite charity and agrees to post a pic of the proof  to show he followed through. 

The issue:  Will the Carolina Panthers win 10 or more games in 2021?

 

My charity is the International Rescue Committee which helps refugees get necessary food and medicine.

[jgb]

26 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

You're on.  How about the loser pays a $25 contribution to the winner's favorite charity and agrees to post a pic of the proof  to show he followed through. 

The issue:  Will the Carolina Panthers win 10 or more games in 2021?

 

My charity is the International Rescue Committee which helps refugees get necessary food and medicine.

It’s funny that a Darnold defenders now claim W/L is a QB stat. But why not it’s for a good cause. Only it needs to be that Darnold wins 10 or more starts (not the Panthers). American Red Cross.

[kelticwizard]

How about Panthers win 10 games and Darnold starts 8 of the wins.  QBs get hurt sometimes.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

How about Panthers win 10 games and Darnold starts 8 of the wins.  QBs get hurt sometimes.

This is a Darnold bet not a Panther’s one 

[kelticwizard]

So if Darnold gets knocked out for four games, has a record of 8-4 in the games he started and the sub has a record of 2-2, it doesn't qualify?  In my opinion a Darmold-led team achieved that 10 win season.

[jgb]

14 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

So if Darnold gets knocked out for four games, has a record of 8-4 in the games he started and the sub has a record of 2-2, it doesn't qualify?  In my opinion a Darmold-led team achieved that 10 win season.

You are the one that thinks Darnold will be successful so come up with a measure of success

[jgb]

 

1 hour ago, kelticwizard said:

Brees didn't reject any franchise deal after he went 2-9 in his third year.  He rejected it after he turned it around in his fourth year.  For his first three years Brees was worse than Sam, even though he had LaDainian Tomlinson in his backfield to take the heat off.

Please adjust your narrative to fit the facts. 

Huh?

[kelticwizard]

Breeze was worse than Darnold in his first 3 years.  He didn't reject any offer at the end of his third year, where he went 2-9 and threw more INTs than TDs.

My measure of success is Darnold leading the Panthers to a 10 win season.  If Darnold starts 8 of the 10 wins and a sub gets the other two victories, it still counts as Darnold leading the Panthers to a 10 win season.  That's eminently fair.

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

Breeze was worse than Darnold in his first 3 years.  He didn't reject any offer at the end of his third year, where he went 2-9 and threw more INTs than TDs.

My measure of success is Darnold leading the Panthers to a 10 win season.  If Darnold starts 8 of the 10 wins and a sub gets the other two victories, it still counts as Darnold leading the Panthers to a 10 win season.  That's eminently fair.

After three years of hearing it wasn’t Sam’s fault the Jets’ record sucked now you want to give credit to Sam for Panther’s games he doesn’t even play in. Unreal. You might be the champ of Darnold Excuse Twister.

[jgb]

4 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

Breeze was worse than Darnold in his first 3 years.  He didn't reject any offer at the end of his third year, where he went 2-9 and threw more INTs than TDs.

My measure of success is Darnold leading the Panthers to a 10 win season.  If Darnold starts 8 of the 10 wins and a sub gets the other two victories, it still counts as Darnold leading the Panthers to a 10 win season.  That's eminently fair.

Ok if you think Sam and Brees are so similar, Brees made the Pro Bowl in his 4th year. Sack up. That’s the bet. I’ll even grant you the win if Sam is an alternate selection.

[doitny]

17 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

Breeze was worse than Darnold in his first 3 years.  He didn't reject any offer at the end of his third year, where he went 2-9 and threw more INTs than TDs.

My measure of success is Darnold leading the Panthers to a 10 win season.  If Darnold starts 8 of the 10 wins and a sub gets the other two victories, it still counts as Darnold leading the Panthers to a 10 win season.  That's eminently fair.

but Sam can put up the same number he did in this season and CMC could run for 1500 yds and really be the reason they win 10 games. like Mark Sanchez. 

i think you guys have to do stats. maybe if Sam gets over 4000 yds you win. then do one for TDs over 30. 25 dollars each.

i mean you this Sam finally has the weapons to do this right? all good/great QBs can do 4000 yds and 30 TDs in there sleep.

just my 2 cents. its your bet

[jgb]

16 minutes ago, doitny said:

but Sam can put up the same number he did in this season and CMC could run for 1500 yds and really be the reason they win 10 games. like Mark Sanchez. 

i think you guys have to do stats. maybe if Sam gets over 4000 yds you win. then do one for TDs over 30. 25 dollars each.

i mean you this Sam finally has the weapons to do this right? all good/great QBs can do 4000 yds and 30 TDs in there sleep.

just my 2 cents. its your bet

He will never agree to anything that puts performance directly on Sam’s shoulders. He will insist on an out and no deal will get done. I’ll give my donation to American Red Cross regardless. Innocent people don’t have to suffer over this.

[Jackie Treehorn]

6 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

How about Panthers win 10 games and Darnold starts 8 of the wins.  QBs get hurt sometimes.

Hehe speaking about Darnold, this is a good one! 
 

 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Jackie Treehorn said:

Hehe speaking about Darnold, this is a good one! 
 

 

Sam’s inability to play a full season is a key element in the case against him. Good to see even his most ardent defenders concede he’s as brittle as spun sugar.

[Jetsfan80]

21 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

Have it your way.  But if the Panthers win 10 or more games next year, I hope you don't mind if I call you Count Chocula from then on.

I would be happy to make a charity bet with you that the Darnold-led Panthers do not win 10+ games next season.  

And if I'm right I'll fully expect you to be happy to pay up to a charity of my choice, not sad at losing.  Because not only would a great organization be getting money, the Jets would be getting a nicer 2nd and 4th round pick from Carolina.  

[Jetsfan80]

21 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

Brees didn't reject any franchise deal after he went 2-9 in his third year.  He rejected it after he turned it around in his fourth year.  For his first three years Brees was worse than Sam, even though he had LaDainian Tomlinson in his backfield to take the heat off.

Please adjust your narrative to fit the facts. 

In Brees' 3rd year as a starting QB in the NFL, he went for 27 TDs / 7 INTs.  In his first season as a starter, he ranked # 24 in QB rating.  In year 2, he was hurt.  Darnold ranked # 31, 27, and 35 in QB rating his first 3 years as a starting QB.  Brees was better, even in his 2 "bad years".

And comparing the stats of a QB in 2018 to that of a QB in 2003 is a silly exercise anyways.  The Ty Law rule didn't go into effect until 2004.  It was a very different game even as recently as then.  You saw Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson-led teams win Super Bowls in that era, because physical play still existed and great defense still reigned over great offense.   

Meanwhile, starting with the Ty Law rule up to the present, the game has shifted to make it much, much easier to play QB.  Darnold putting up seasons with barely more TDs than TDs, even in his first 2 years in the league, was pathetic.  Compare Darnold to his peers

Brees was a better QB in his first 2 years as starter than Sam Darnold.  Even when factoring in LaDainian Tomlinson.  And by year 3 as a starter he was a stud.  Know who also is already a better QB than Darnold by a long shot?  Justin Herbert, who despite playing behind the # 32-ranked OL in the NFL finished with 31 TDs / 10 INTs and a 98.3 QB Rating.

Franchise QB's show they are franchise QB's very early on, and earlier than they did in 2003.  They don't need 4 years to show it.

So, yeah, hoping that Darnold is the next Brees is a waste of time.  He's not.

[Jetsfan80]

21 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

Obviously there are more failures than successes among QBs who do badly their first 3 years, but it is far from only  Drew Brees being the exception.  In addition to Steve Young whom I and others mentioned, there are Phil Simms, who sucked his first 5 years, (he got beaten out by Scott Brunner one of those years), Terry Bradshaw, who sucked for his first four, and Eli Manning who had Giants sportswriters and fans openly advocating the Giants move on from him during his third year.  I'm sure there are others if I take the time to think about it.

I listed out 9 since the merger, including Manning and Young, and was being generous when I did so.  Fine, add Bradshaw and Simms to the list to make 11.  Go crazy!

Meanwhile, since the merger, there were 80+ QB's on my list of highly drafted guys who sucked for 3 years and continued to success (or were out of the league entirely in less than 4 years).

[Jetsfan80]

21 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

You're on.  How about the loser pays a $25 contribution to the winner's favorite charity and agrees to post a pic of the proof  to show he followed through. 

The issue:  Will the Carolina Panthers win 10 or more games in 2021?

 

My charity is the International Rescue Committee which helps refugees get necessary food and medicine.

I'm in.  I usually go with St. Jude's.  They'll be happy to have your money.   

[Jetsfan80]

20 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

So if Darnold gets knocked out for four games, has a record of 8-4 in the games he started and the sub has a record of 2-2, it doesn't qualify?  In my opinion a Darmold-led team achieved that 10 win season.

Fine.  Since you seem to acknowledge Darnold's soft nature, knowing that he's missed at least 3 games every year, I'll suggest a winning % bet with a minimum starts push.  Since 10 wins would be a .588 winning % if he plays a full 17, then Darnold needs to win at least 58.8% of his starts.  But he must end up starting the majority of Carolina's games (9+ starts) or the bet ends up a push, and we all pay a charity.  

Sound good?  @jgb?

[Jetsfan80]

On 7/2/2021 at 5:49 PM, genot said:

A lot of those QB's were never top prospects . Some couldn't overcome the injury bug. Some we're head cases, and had lifestyle issues that affected their careers. Yes, based on past history, the percentages ate working against Darnold. I put Darnold at the top of the list of QB's who turned thier careers around, with obvious explanations as to why

Who cares if they were "top prospects" or not?  They were highly drafted.  That's all that matters.  The teams who took them were highly invested in those guys being their long-term starters.  The likes of Jimmy Clausen, Geno Smith, DeShone Kizer and Christian Hackenberg were all 2nd round picks but were taken by teams who lacked QB's and needed one.  They were expected to end up starting QB's.  Nobody ever takes a 2nd round QB with the expectation he'll end up a backup.

Even when removing all those silly variables you listed off that made them "not count", the evidence is heavy that bad QB's remain bad in this league, with few exceptions.  

[jgb]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Fine.  Since you seem to acknowledge Darnold's soft nature, knowing that he's missed at least 3 games every year, I'll suggest a winning % bet with a minimum starts push.  Since 10 wins would be a .588 winning % if he plays a full 17, then Darnold needs to win at least 58.8% of his starts.  But he must end up starting the majority of Carolina's games (9+ starts) or the bet ends up a push, and we all pay a charity.  

Sound good?  @jgb?

It’s an easy bet to make and happy to send money to a good cause but it’s just not how sports betting works. You bet Tyreek Hill he over 1,200 receiving yards and he blows a knee in week 8, you’re SOL. You have to risk adjust for that. Keltic — like all Darnold defenders — can’t even tell us what success looks like for Darnold outside W/L (which they just spent 3 years arguing is NOT a QB statistic). Not because they don’t want to lose a bet, but they don’t want it in writing that Sam failed to achieve their own standard, thus removing their ability to excuse-make. I like my idea — they say Sam is like Brees well Brees made the Pro Bowl (AND was named comeback player of the year) in his 4th year. Is he like him, or not? I’ll even give them the win for an alternate pro bowl selection. I’ll even give them the win if he wins CBPOTY. They won’t go for it because they know Sam is NOTHING like Brees.

[genot]

12 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Who cares if they were "top prospects" or not?  They were highly drafted.  That's all that matters.  The teams who took them were highly invested in those guys being their long-term starters.  The likes of Jimmy Clausen, Geno Smith, DeShone Kizer and Christian Hackenberg were all 2nd round picks but were taken by teams who lacked QB's and needed one.  They were expected to end up starting QB's.  Nobody ever takes a 2nd round QB with the expectation he'll end up a backup.

Even when removing all those silly variables you listed off that made them "not count", the evidence is heavy that bad QB's remain bad in this league, with few exceptions.  

Some of thos QB's listed didnt fail because of on field performance. That's not a sully variable 

[pointman]

On 7/3/2021 at 2:44 AM, jgb said:

 it needs to be that Darnold wins 10 or more starts 

In how many seasons?

[pointman]

On 7/3/2021 at 3:36 AM, jgb said:

Ok if you think Sam and Brees are so similar, Brees made the Pro Bowl in his 4th year. Sack up. That’s the bet. I’ll even grant you the win if Sam is an alternate selection.

[pointman]

14 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I would be happy to make a charity bet with you that the Darnold-led Panthers do not win 10+ games next season.  

And if I'm right I'll fully expect you to be happy to pay up to a charity of my choice, not sad at losing.  Because not only would a great organization be getting money, the Jets would be getting a nicer 2nd and 4th round pick from Carolina.  

If the Panthers win 10, McCaffrey had one of the greatest of all time type seasons by any player ever. His quads would be wrecked from all the carrying he did. 

[pointman]

Sam. Darnold. Winning 10 games. As a QB. In the NFL.

 

[Jet Nut]

On 7/2/2021 at 2:44 PM, pointman said:

There is way too much defending of Darnold in this thread. This is about how hilarious his performances in the offseason are. 

How hilarious have they been?  

 

[Savage69]

On 7/3/2021 at 2:22 AM, kelticwizard said:

You're on.  How about the loser pays a $25 contribution to the winner's favorite charity and agrees to post a pic of the proof  to show he followed through. 

The issue:  Will the Carolina Panthers win 10 or more games in 2021?

 

My charity is the International Rescue Committee which helps refugees get necessary food and medicine.

Seems more worthy then the Crusher family food bank..

[pointman]

13 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

How hilarious have they been?  

 

[Jet Nut]

On 7/2/2021 at 5:11 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

Do you see now how the odds are heavily stacked against Darnold ever becoming anything but a bad QB in the NFL?

Do you and others who are living by the "who has turned it around.  The odds are long" idea have an idea of how few, if any of those failed QBs have been in the same situation that Darnold was in?  I've asked before, no one ever answers this simple question:

Name the QB, any one, just one who shares the Darnold scenario.  Get drafted 3rd overall.  Play three seasons have no improvements made by way of the draft or any way to the teams OL, WRs, RBs & TE until your last season.  While all units are ranked bottom of the NFL.  Not a star to be found anywhere

In reality no one has had it as bad as Darnold, like it or not.  Now it all may mean squat when its said and done.  But to compare him to others who were in far different situations and try and claim the odds are the same for Sam is pointless.  At the end of the day we had no choice but to move on and I admit it doesnt look that encouraging for him but other than when he plays us its no skin off my ass if he does well.  

Whats the list now Darnold, Adams, Geno, Chad, who else are we supposed to wish the worst? 

[pointman]

51 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Do you and others who are living by the "who has turned it around.  The odds are long" idea have an idea of how few, if any of those failed QBs have been in the same situation that Darnold was in?  I've asked before, no one ever answers this simple question:

Name the QB, any one, just one who shares the Darnold scenario.  Get drafted 3rd overall.  Play three seasons have no improvements made by way of the draft or any way to the teams OL, WRs, RBs & TE.  While all units are ranked bottom of the NFL.  Not a star to be found anywhere

In reality no one has had it as bad as Darnold, like it or not.  Now it all may mean squat when its said and done.  But to compare him to others who were in far different situations and try and claim the odds are the same for Sam is pointless.  At the end of the day we had no choice but to move on and I admit it doesnt look that encouraging for him but other than when he plays us its no skin off my ass if he does well.  

Whats the list now Darnold, Adams, Geno, Chad, who else are we supposed to wish the worst? 

I would say that I will remember this post for when Sam falls on his face again, but I won't. Be sure to admit to your odd, undying, unrequited love for Sam once he does inevitably suck again. 

[JetsFanShawn]

On 6/19/2021 at 7:16 AM, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

MY MAN 

we will give Sam darnold a loose 27 24