Zach Wilson: "Could Be Ready for Week 1"

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, GandWFan said:

Take your stats and shove em.  If you don't think that going toe to toe with TB12 was the best performance of a Jets QB, maybe even better than the My Quite Cincy game, than you just do not know football.  

Spreadsheets are not football.

Brady went 34 of 50 for 410 yards and three TDs in that game, but throwing for 234 yards and a TD is “toe to toe”? 

[jago]

My family member is at the event and mingling with all of the players, including ZW.
$1500.00 a head.

Better be for charity or Zach is running for office, else wow what a money grab.
[Apologies thread TLDR in case this has been covered]

[GandWFan]

5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

First game in Carolina? Yes. OL was a sh*tshow. 

But at times against NE, Denver, and in London against Atlanta, he held the ball too long. Also held the ball too long on the play he got hurt on in NE. Now - there’s a balance because he can also make big plays when he buys time and gets out of the pocket. But he was being indecisive at times, IMO
 

his decisiveness improved a lot after he came back from injury. 

Of course he was indecisive.  He was a rookie.  The game had not slowed down for him.  But it will.  Saw signs late in the year.  Looking forward to a big jump this year!

[slimjasi]

25 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So he had 1 of the 3 then, not 2.  I accept your surrender.  

Nope. Didn’t say that. Nice try. Just used them as examples. As I pointed out in another post, I thought the QBR argument was so bad that there was yet ANOTHER game better than the Josh Johnson show in Indy (i.e. Flacco game)

The three best Jets QB performances I saw in 2021 were against the Bengals, Titans, and Bucs. 
 

it would have been interesting to see MW finish the Indy game. 

[GandWFan]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Brady went 34 of 50 for 410 yards and three TDs in that game, but throwing for 234 yards and a TD is “toe to toe”? 

24-21 Jets with a little over 2 minutes left.  Oh, btw, had driven down to the 7 yardline before turning the ball over on downs.  

So yes, toe to toe.

Again...  Stats... Shove em.

[Hal N of Provo]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Brady went 34 of 50 for 410 yards and three TDs in that game, but throwing for 234 yards and a TD is “toe to toe”? 

Yes.  When you are throwing to the players he was it’s more impressive.  

[Mogglez]

I still think the Titans game is Zach’s signature performance from last year, showcasing everything from BYU that made him the 2nd overall pick.  Also, yes, this was the 2nd best performance by a QB on this team.  Period.  If Corey Davis doesn’t trip over his own 2 feet, it’s a 300 yard performance and he doesn’t have a single turnover.

However, the game against TB was certainly Zach’s cleanest outing, and probably the best example of him operating within the system instead of freelancing.  It was also made impressive because who he was throwing to that game.

He needs to have more games like those two this year.

[FootballLove]

Look, I really hope Zack has 'it'. And by 'it' I mean super-fast processing ability. That's the #1 thing that makes a great NFL QB. The ability to instantly decipher what the D is trying to do and know in a nanosecond how to beat it. THEN have the arm to make it happen.

Some humans have 'it'. Some humans have everything but, including good looks.

Here's an analogy: A lab can sit in a boat while hunters blast a dozen ducks out of the sky. As each duck is whacked, the lab makes a mental note of where in the lake it fell for future retrieval. It can take him15-20 minutes to swim around, but he remembers EXACTLY where each duck fell in 3D space, vector, distance. No one has to tell him, he just does it all on his own and doesn't stop until every duck is retrieved. It's a gift that's been wired into his 'retriever' brain from birth. A Priori as Kant would say....

So back to Zack....does he have 'it'? That natural ability to process at lightning speed?

Like the lab, Zack either has it from birth, or he doesn't, and no amount of practice will ever change that.

I'll continue this thought later in the thread....gotta go check on my kid (he's 23, but you know...)

[maury77]

36 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Brady went 34 of 50 for 410 yards and three TDs in that game, but throwing for 234 yards and a TD is “toe to toe”? 

Here is a link to the video of his passes for that game:

The Jets running game was very effective that day and it took the Bucs a while for their offense to get going (probably in part because of Antonio Brown's "distractions"). When the Bucs had to honest on defense because of the Jets running game, Wilson played well. 

Go to the late 3rd quarter when Brady started putting up points and the Jets were being forced into more obvious throwing situations on offense. Wilson could not move the ball as well. He played better, but all the stars had to line up in order for him to do so. 

[GandWFan]

5 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Here is a link to the video of his passes for that game:

The Jets running game was very effective that day and it took the Bucs a while for their offense to get going (probably in part because of Antonio Brown's "distractions"). When the Bucs had to honest on defense because of the Jets running game, Wilson played well. 

Go to the late 3rd quarter when Brady started putting up points and the Jets were being forced into more obvious throwing situations on offense. Wilson could not move the ball as well. He played better, but all the stars had to line up in order for him to do so. 

And yet they were on the 7 yard line with 2:20 left in the game, leading 24-32 with a chance to put the game away.  Against TB12, whose TB team took the eventual SB champs down to the wire in the divisional playoff game.

Yeah.  No credit given.

 

[Mogglez]

16 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Here is a link to the video of his passes for that game:

The Jets running game was very effective that day and it took the Bucs a while for their offense to get going (probably in part because of Antonio Brown's "distractions"). When the Bucs had to honest on defense because of the Jets running game, Wilson played well. 

Go to the late 3rd quarter when Brady started putting up points and the Jets were being forced into more obvious throwing situations on offense. Wilson could not move the ball as well. He played better, but all the stars had to line up in order for him to do so. 

Yup, this is a very fair assessment.  I think the hard thing to discern from that game is whether or not the lack of overall talent slowed the offense down, as a whole, or was it just Wilson not quite being there just yet?  You could definitely argue that it’s a little bit of both, since a FQB will elevate those around him (which is something I actually think Zach can do if he puts it together) regardless of circumstances.  However, for a team so young, lacking depth, and a raw QB who is still developing, I’d venture to guess that it really wouldn’t have changed much with any of our other QBs were under center.

[Jetsfan80]

Darnold's game against Green Bay his rookie year was far better than anything Zach Wilson did last season.  And Darnold did so with a weaker supporting cast.

I'll hang up and listen.

[maury77]

1 minute ago, GandWFan said:

And yet they were on the 7 yard line with 2:20 left in the game, leading 24-32 with a chance to put the game away.  Against TB12, whose TB team took the eventual SB champs down to the wire in the divisional playoff game.

Yeah.  No credit given.

 

I said he played well. I know having a nuanced take is heresy here, what can I say. 

[Barry McCockinner]

7 hours ago, jgb said:

Exactly! So why the meltdowns when people are skeptical? Isn’t that the bloody smart position to take with any QB, especially one with such a bad rookie year?

 

I mean statistically you can pound your fist about every QB that gets drafted never becoming a franchise QB the second they're drafted and you'll be correct the overwhelming majority of the time. A monkey can do that.

Seeing a rookie QB suck in year 1 on a bad team just isn't surprising for many reasons. Rookie QB's who are drafted later tend to do better because they land in better situations and/or don't start right away. It used to be we waited 2-3 years before a rookie QB would even get a shot to start basically until Russel Wilson happened. Rookie wage scale helped change that too.

My entire point in the previous paragraph is that QB's need time to develop and I think we're too fast to throw them away. People will root for losses to get a high draft pick then turn around and want to move on a year later when the crappy team doesn't immediately do a 180 with a rookie QB. That's insane and it's kind of crazy how dramatically expectations have changed.

They're all long shots to become that guy and their are different paths to becoming that guy. Throwing out one of the few outliers who actually became a franchise QB because it was unlikely for them to become one seems silly when it's unlikely for all of them. People are going to point at outliers because there are only outliers to point at.

 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, GandWFan said:

Someone posted a YouTube of every pass vs Carolina, Zach's first game.  He was IMMEDIATELY pressured every play.  The online was in shambles.  Patrick Mahomes would have looked like sh*t with that protection.  And that continued for the first 3 or 4 games until the Online started to jel.

Let's not rewrite history.

^^^ Reads like a Darnold-era post.

What a surprise.  

[Mogglez]

11 minutes ago, GandWFan said:

And yet they were on the 7 yard line with 2:20 left in the game, leading 24-32 with a chance to put the game away.  Against TB12, whose TB team took the eventual SB champs down to the wire in the divisional playoff game.

Yeah.  No credit given.

 

Yeah, he definitely got them down there.  It’s a shame that a bad decision by LaFleur and execution by Wilson stalled them though, because beating Brady at home, with that supporting cast, would have been huge. Ultimately, what happened, happened though.  I think what @maury77 said was very fair.  The truth is, one scoring drive in the last quarter and change, and we win that game.  That being said, you have to admit that things could have been better and we lost, partially, because Wilson had some rookie lapses late in the game.

[Jetsfan80]

23 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Here is a link to the video of his passes for that game:

The Jets running game was very effective that day and it took the Bucs a while for their offense to get going (probably in part because of Antonio Brown's "distractions"). When the Bucs had to honest on defense because of the Jets running game, Wilson played well. 

Go to the late 3rd quarter when Brady started putting up points and the Jets were being forced into more obvious throwing situations on offense. Wilson could not move the ball as well. He played better, but all the stars had to line up in order for him to do so. 

 

"Take your eye test and SHOVE IT"

[Mogglez]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Darnold's game against Green Bay his rookie year was far better than anything Zach Wilson did last season.  And Darnold did so with a weaker supporting cast.

I'll hang up and listen.

Hard disagree, but only because I watch a lot of Green Bay (they’re my NFC team) and that defense was atrocious.  I think Tennessee (2021) eclipses that.

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, GandWFan said:

And yet they were on the 7 yard line with 2:20 left in the game, leading 24-32 with a chance to put the game away.  Against TB12, whose TB team took the eventual SB champs down to the wire in the divisional playoff game.

Yeah.  No credit given.

Credit has been given.  But the problem is this was his "signature" rookie performance, and it wasn't even that great.  

He played 2 good/decent/passable games as a rookie and the rest were either well below average by NFL starting QB standards or god awful. 

Not great Bob.  Not great.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Hard disagree, but only because I watch a lot of Green Bay (they’re my NFC team) and that defense was atrocious.  I think Tennessee (2021) eclipses that.

I get it.  However, these were Darnold's receiving targets that day:

• Robby Anderson (13)
• Chris Herndon (7)
• Elijah McGuire (5)
• Jermaine Kearse (4)
• Trenton Cannon (2)
• Deontay Burnett (2)
• Jorgan Leggett (1)

[Mogglez]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I get it.  However, these were Darnold's receiving targets that day:

• Robby Anderson (13)
• Chris Herndon (7)
• Elijah McGuire (5)
• Jermaine Kearse (4)
• Trenton Cannon (2)
• Deontay Burnett (2)
• Jorgan Leggett (1)

Definitely fair.  I’ll also add this (and please don’t kill me, lol).  

1. There was still something to play for during the Jets-Tennessee game.  That alone makes the performance stand above GB (2018).

2. I, genuinely, believe Darnold’s career arch is possibly different if we hire Saleh and LaFleur in 2019 (for a hypothetical sake).  

To me, and maybe this is wrong, a QBs first year is like a “loosen the play-doh” year.  The next 2 years are the molding steps.  I’m not trying to make excuses for Sam, but I think a better scheme, especially one like the one we currently have, which he would have been perfect for, and coaching (LaFleur >>>>>> Gase) could have helped him potentially live up to his potential.  That being said, I don’t think the two years under Gase should have broken him as badly as they did (beyond salvation). That has more to do with mental make-up.  That’s where I think Wilson will have the edge…but also more pressure.  There are no excuses for him.  If he’s legit, he will show it here.  If he’s a bust?  We’ll know that too.

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Definitely fair.  I’ll also add this (and please don’t kill me, lol).  I think Darnold’s career arch is possibly different if we hire Saleh and LaFleur in 2019 (for a hypothetical sake).  

To me, and maybe this is wrong, a QBs first year is like a “loosen the play-doh” year.  The next 2 years are the molding steps.  I’m not trying to make excuses for Sam, but I think a better scheme, especially one like the one we currently have, which he would have been perfect for, and coaching (LaFleur >>>>>> Gase) could have helped him potentially live up to his potential.  That being said, I don’t think the two years under Gase should have broken him as badly as they did (beyond salvation). That has more to do with mental make-up.  That’s where I think Wilson will have the edge…but also more pressure.  There are no excuses for him.  If he’s legit, he will show it here.  If he’s a bust?  We’ll know that too.

 

No coach could ever fix Sam Darnold.  You can't cure a slow-processing brain.  You can get away with it in college but not the Pros.  And you either have quick processing ability or you don't.  

And if Wilson has a slow-processing brain too then there will be no curing him, either.

[SuicidalSince98]

Why the need to hunt down and combat and anything that could be perceived as positive from Wilson? Seems exhausting.

 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Why the need to hunt down and combat and anything that could be perceived as positive from Wilson? Seems exhausting.

I dunno, "SuicidalSince98", you tell me why we should be positive.

[Mogglez]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

No coach could ever fix Sam Darnold.  You can't cure a slow-processing brain.  You can get away with it in college but not the Pros.  And you either have quick processing ability or you don't.  

And if Wilson has it too then there will be no curing him, either.

No, I definitely agree.  I was kind of saying that when I said he should have never been “broken”.  I guess I was trying to illustrate the point that developing a QB still is a process, and maybe a guy who crumbled so easily over two years of adversity, doesn’t crumble if the GM and coaching staff in place now, were the CS and FO in place for that 2019 off-season, because things would have been better.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

No, I definitely agree.  I was kind of saying that when I said he should have never been “broken”.  I guess I was trying to illustrate the point that developing a QB still is a process, and maybe a guy who crumbled so easily over two years of adversity, doesn’t crumble if the GM and coaching staff in place now, were the CS and FO in place for that 2019 off-season.

Mental toughness and mental quickness are obviously 2 different things.  No doubt that the Boogie Boarder was always mentally soft. But he was ALSO mentally slow.  A terrible combination.  

I dunno if Wilson is mentally soft.  So far I don't think so.  But does he process the game slowly?  So far that's a resounding yes.  Some of that could be the difficulty of going from the Mountain West to the pros.  Hence why Year 2 is so ridiculously important for him.

He's definitely set up to succeed much more than Darnold was both in regards to OC and supporting talent, so there shouldn't be any excuses in that department.  There should be no good reason why Wilson should end up "broken". 

[SuicidalSince98]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I dunno, "SuicidalSince98", you tell me why we should be positive.

Not saying you need to be positive. But why go around sh*tting on those that are? Especially before the season even starts?

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, SuicidalSince98 said:

Not saying you need to be positive. But why go around sh*tting on those that are? Especially before the season even starts?

I only sh*t on those that do when they act like b*tches towards those who don't agree.  And I especially despise the posters who whine to the mods/Max about it. 

We have the longest playoff drought in the league and it doesn't appear likely for that drought to end this year.  People are gonna be negative until positive results come.  Don't like it?  Use the ignore feature or grow the f**k up.  

[JTJet]

15 pages from someone hearing from someone else who...

supposedly heard...

from the horses mouth...

allegedly...

that Zach will play, and the majority of it is @Jetsfan80 coming in with the heat napalming the forrest of anyone remotely pro Zach lol.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

1 hour ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Yes.  When you are throwing to the players he was it’s more impressive.  

Brady’s GW TD was to “Cyril Grayson”

[T0mShane]

50 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Hard disagree, but only because I watch a lot of Green Bay (they’re my NFC team) and that defense was atrocious.  I think Tennessee (2021) eclipses that.

Zach Wilson played against three of the worst defenses in football last season: Falcons, Jags, and Texans. His stats in those games:

ATL- 19 of 32, 192 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INT

HOU— 14 of 24, 145 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INT

JAGS—14 of 22, 102 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I mean statistically you can pound your fist about every QB that gets drafted never becoming a franchise QB the second they're drafted and you'll be correct the overwhelming majority of the time. A monkey can do that.

Seeing a rookie QB suck in year 1 on a bad team just isn't surprising for many reasons. Rookie QB's who are drafted later tend to do better because they land in better situations and/or don't start right away. It used to be we waited 2-3 years before a rookie QB would even get a shot to start basically until Russel Wilson happened. Rookie wage scale helped change that too.

My entire point in the previous paragraph is that QB's need time to develop and I think we're too fast to throw them away. People will root for losses to get a high draft pick then turn around and want to move on a year later when the crappy team doesn't immediately do a 180 with a rookie QB. That's insane and it's kind of crazy how dramatically expectations have changed.

They're all long shots to become that guy and their are different paths to becoming that guy. Throwing out one of the few outliers who actually became a franchise QB because it was unlikely for them to become one seems silly when it's unlikely for all of them. People are going to point at outliers because there are only outliers to point at.

 

All fair, all fair.

Still think having the 249th out of 250 worst-rated season by one metric (Josh Rosen last) -- means our QB's odds are, sadly, longer than a generic 1st round QB.

I also would be careful about saying a monkey understands the odds of a rookie QB succeeding... doesn't put those that can't in a very nice light.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

But how many repeat over and over that ZW had the worst QBR in the league?  Even while his QBR was better than Fields for example.  
And pretty much the differences between the QB ratings or ESPNs QBRs for TLAwrence, TLance, Fields and Wilson were minuscule to the point of pointing to them doesn’t tell a story. 
 

 

 

And how many repeat over and over how we are judging too fast, are haters/trolls/whatever, and that he has supreme talent?

This is like blaming the kid on one side of the seesaw for it going up and down.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Truthfully, I'm just glad we're getting football back and can begin to argue something new.  

Good news bad news.... we are getting football back but.... 

[GandWFan]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Zach Wilson played against three of the worst defenses in football last season: Falcons, Jags, and Texans. His stats in those games:

ATL- 19 of 32, 192 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INT

HOU— 14 of 24, 145 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INT

JAGS—14 of 22, 102 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT

More stats.  What a surprise.