Zach is the problem, not Penalties.

[Dunnie]

23 hours ago, doitny said:

i know, another Zach thread right....

so we lost yesterday and Zach played ok. it was the penalties and drops right? 

well would it surprise you that we are the 4th least team in defensive penalties with 44? we are 2 short of leading the league in least penalties. Dallas, Buffalo have 56. SF 57, the Eagles have 61.

on offense it was lower but now were 17th with 60. the same as KC and Buffalo. SF has 62. 

and we are 9th least in yards with 443. Buffalo 476, KC 500, Det 502, Balt 532, Dall 544, SF 565. so when your complaining that we keep getting pushed back. there are a hell of a lot more teams getting pushed back even farther than us. including some of the best in the NFL.

wow look at all those penalties from SF and Buffalo. what undisciplined teams. someone should fire there HCs.

point is, everyone gets them. some of the best teams get the same or alot more than us. whats the difference? they have a QB and we have the 30th worst in the NFL. 

with Zach we have to be perfect. no penalties, no drops. defense pitching a near shutout every week. nobody can play a mistake free game.

so next time you want to complain about penalties dont, we commit less for less yards then some of the best teams around. but they can make it up with there QBs, and we cant. its the QB, not the HC.

[Jet_Engine1]

22 hours ago, Claymation said:

Your logic is flawed. Look at the Giants. 
 

A. DeVito has more passing TDs than Zach in the last month, and 

 

B. There was no real game tape of DeVito yet. 

 

That will change. 

[Hex]

19 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

A. DeVito has more passing TDs than Zach in the last month, and 

 

B. There was no real game tape of DeVito yet. 

 

That will change. 

You're talking about the garbage time TDs he threw? All 3 of them came when the Giants were losing by 4 scores or more. For reference, I don't think the Jets have been down by more than 3 scores in a game this season.

Either way, DeVito has worse statistics in pretty much every category than Zach Wilson (per game) except TD passes. Teams know he's trash and shouldn't be allowing as much running as they are. I mean, the Jets game Barkely rushed for 128 yards despite the fact that they weren't throwing pretty much at all.

[Plen T]

4 hours ago, doitny said:

no i didnt

so with all these teams getting 8...9..10 penalties do you think that none of them are on huge plays? only the Jets get TD called back by penalties? i dont watch every game as im sure you dont neither but i doubt it very much that this only happens to us.

 

 

yes

it's a reason everyone is calling it out including the coach himself

[Claymation]

11 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

A. DeVito has more passing TDs than Zach in the last month, and 

 

B. There was no real game tape of DeVito yet. 

 

That will change. 

This isn't a Zach vs Devito, this is a team running the ball with some success with Devito as the Giants QB, knowing Devito isn't going to do anything in the air. Do you want to try again? 

[CanadaSteve]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:32 PM, Darnold's Forehead said:

Obviously they are problems, but they are only major issues because this offense and QB are incapable of overcoming them any of them.  Holding calls are not drive enders for every offense in the league.  This team   gets one false start and it’s a guaranteed punt.

Well, considering the number of penalties we get on offense.....

That holding call sure was a TD killer (and possibly a game changer).

Match that with a QB that can't play QB, then the offense REALLY has issues.

[CanadaSteve]

11 hours ago, Hex said:

Either way, DeVito has worse statistics in pretty much every category than Zach Wilson (per game) except TD passes. Teams know he's trash and shouldn't be allowing as much running as they are. I mean, the Jets game Barkely rushed for 128 yards despite the fact that they weren't throwing pretty much at all.

Why are we arguing about the fact that DeVito has the worst statistics?  

Here is a great way to solve this argument:  DeVito sucks.  Zach sucks.  There.  

[JetsMetsRangers]

23 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Why are we arguing about the fact that DeVito has the worst statistics?  

Here is a great way to solve this argument:  DeVito sucks.  Zach sucks.  There.  

lol!.....Yes imagine arguing about who is worse with the stats when comparing a FA starting his second game as a pro with the #2 pick in his third year with over 20+ starts........

[Sperm Edwards]

23 hours ago, PepPep said:

Benching Zach at this point and trotting out a stiff like Siemian or an absolute joke like Boyle means one thing and one ting only. The season is done. You may as well start resting the starters. IMO - THAT is why the Jets have not done it yet. I know most Jet fans view it the OTHER way around - as in, benching Zach means there is still some fight in this team. But no. Not with Siemian and Boyle as the guys who will be filling in. These guys are god-awful and will signify the end of the season.

The thing it means more than that. It means he's 100% finished here instead of being just whatever % (but still less than 100%) likely that he's finished here.

If he gets benched 3x in 3 seasons, that's it. Nobody makes it to a 4th season after that.

If he makes it to a Rodgers takeover, with the playoffs still mathematically possible, then they can rationalize bringing him back in '24 as a backup again, and further rationalize not spending a pick on another QB prospect. 

I think that's a big part of their calculation. More than some admission that benching a poorly-performing QB means throwing in the towel on the season, anyway. 

[PepPep]

16 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The thing it means more than that. It means he's 100% finished here instead of being just whatever % (but still less than 100%) likely that he's finished here.

If he gets benched 3x in 3 seasons, that's it. Nobody makes it to a 4th season after that.

If he makes it to a Rodgers takeover, with the playoffs still mathematically possible, then they can rationalize bringing him back in '24 as a backup again, and further rationalize not spending a pick on another QB prospect. 

I think that's a big part of their calculation. More than some admission that benching a poorly-performing QB means throwing in the towel on the season, anyway. 

Maybe, but there is the rationalization that Zach was never meant to be in this position. That he is a backup. That he is SUPPOSED to be benched. 

It's one thing if a veteran starter kept failing you. It's another if you threw a rookie QB into the fire, admitted that was a mistake, watched him struggle in year two, and watched him struggle again as he was forced to step into a starting role once again while being designated as backup. All while benching him multiple times due to poor performance on the field. 

Now look, I'm not advocating for Zach to stay on the team or start or making excuses for  his play. He's not good. I'm just saying it's not as cut and dry as 'we had to bench a starter 3 times in 3 seasons' so he has to go. Like, yes, he has to go, but that's really not the full story here. 

[Sperm Edwards]

40 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Maybe, but there is the rationalization that Zach was never meant to be in this position. That he is a backup. That he is SUPPOSED to be benched. 

It's one thing if a veteran starter kept failing you. It's another if you threw a rookie QB into the fire, admitted that was a mistake, watched him struggle in year two, and watched him struggle again as he was forced to step into a starting role once again while being designated as backup. All while benching him multiple times due to poor performance on the field. 

Now look, I'm not advocating for Zach to stay on the team or start or making excuses for  his play. He's not good. I'm just saying it's not as cut and dry as 'we had to bench a starter 3 times in 3 seasons' so he has to go. Like, yes, he has to go, but that's really not the full story here. 

I don't think it's the same thing. Being benched from the outset of this season, in favor of bringing in Rodgers, is still an extension of his 2nd benching from '22.

If he now gets benched yet again in '23 that is not only a new event, but further it's him getting benched for either a has-been or relative (if not absolute) career nobody. The best player he was benched in favor of (by prior reputation) was a post-Broncos Joe Flacco. Mike White was a career nobody. Josh Johnson the same. Mike White again. Joe Flacco again. If he gets benched for Siemien or Boyle? That's not in the same galaxy as we're going to let Zach sit for the season behind Rodgers. 

He was put onto the field again, and was benched again. That's the optics, as they'd be, if they do demote him in favor of either of two QBs no one else wanted. 

Sitting behind Rodgers for a year or two, to then give him a clean slate thereafter, is a narrative that could fly (even if many still didn't like it). Getting benched for a 3rd time - this go around for the likes of Tim Boyle ffs - is not a narrative that can fly. 

He's done with the Jets if he's benched this year. They all know they can't carry any credible stories about this (yet again) is just a temporary demotion, that they still believe in him, etc. 

The ONLY way he has any chance of coming back from that (on this team, anyway) is if BOTH backups go in, one then the other, and both perform demonstrably worse. 

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, JetsMetsRangers said:

lol!.....Yes imagine arguing about who is worse with the stats when comparing a FA starting his second game as a pro with the #2 pick in his third year with over 20+ starts........

And again....Who cares?

It seems as if there are fans who believe that someone believes in Zach when they suggest "The OLine has been the problem, and so are the penalties."

They are a problem!  We might be able to score 20 points a game (which is all we would need given our defense), and we might possibly could do it if we didn't lose points because of penalties (which we did last game).  And I am one of those people.

But there is NO disillusion too that Zach has any business being the starting QB for this team.  He was a GREAT college player.  And could he possibly one day pull a Geno Smith?  Sure.  Hang around long enough you might just 'get' it.

But franchise QB's don't get years to 'get' it.  Zach got his three years.  Good for him.  He got a shot at being an NFL starting QB.  Only 32 of them in the world.  Zach, you tried.  But it ain't there.  No shame in it.  Every person on this board would love to be the QB for the NY Jets.  

BUT......We are playing out the season.  We pushed our chips in on Aaron Rodgers, and got 4 plays.  IF we are lucky, we will get another season.  Let's hope we draft well for Aaron next year, whether its JD or not, and then the following year, we trade everything for a QB who can sit behind Rodgers again while he plays his swan song.  

That version, or ANY other version you can imagine into existence where we have a legitimate franchise QB.  Frankly, I don't care who takes the glory:  Maxman, Bitonti, Tom Shane, JetsFan80, Oatmeal.  DON'T CARE.  Just one of you f'ers HAS to conjure up the idea that the football gods finally say "YES!"  Let's grant them that!  

[Jets723]

There isn’t one particularly problem there are many problems on offense.  The QB, the playcalling, the oline, the drops, the penalties.  All are issues.  Besides Garrett Wilson and Breece Hall everything else is a red flag right now really 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

How do you “call plays” optimally for a QB who holds the ball for 5 seconds, flees the pocket instantaneously as if it’s Fukushima, and still has no clue what he’s looking at?

100% quick game and RPO?

It’s virtually impossible to run any kind of conventional dropback passing game with ZW.

[Ron Rico]

We've been over this and over this 

[doitny]

7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Sitting behind Rodgers for a year or two, to then give him a clean slate thereafter, is a narrative that could fly (even if many still didn't like it)

they would have some pair of balls to do that.

i expect JD and Saleh to survive this year. then stay as Rodgers should have us playing good for 1 or 2 years. when he is gone if they bring back Zach as the starter they are betting their jobs on him. now if they were to draft another QB in Rodgers last year they might get an extra year or 2 to see if he is any good.

2 years of deep playoff runs with Rodgers will get them all kinds of goodwill. to blow that on Zach is just stupid on there part.

[Rich Thornburgh]

3 years of hot garbage yet people still defend ZW

[Ron Rico]

The joke's on JD, if he traded Zach during the off-season he probably could have gotten a 3rd or 4th round pick for him. Every game they start him, his value depreciates. I don't think you can get anything for him, at this point. The opportunity cost just keeps adding up. 

[Warfish]

On 11/15/2023 at 11:18 AM, CanadaSteve said:

It seems as if there are fans who believe that someone believes in Zach when they suggest "The OLine has been the problem, and so are the penalties."

They are a problem!

They may indeed be.  More than one thing can be true, and more than one factor can lead to failure.

But in truth, we tend to think posters are defined as "someone who believes in Zach" when they have four years now (up to a year before the draft and three years since) constantly and loudly proclaiming their belief in Zach, and extolling his great this and elite that and his huge potential and his massive improvement, etc.

The fact those same posters have, for three of those years, ALSO been laying the blame for the Jets lack of Offense at ABZ (Anyone But Zach) and over-stating the statistical metrics of those blamed units to serve the ABZ argument, it serves to align their current concerns regarding the O-line, or WR drops, or play-calling, etc. with a general "believes in Zach" position.

TLDR:  When someone spends three years and thousands of posts telling you what they are, believe them.

 

[paulyjet]

The maturity level of Jets fans is hugely displayed right here in this thread. 

Will we ever be better.

 

Smh

[Ron Rico]

21 minutes ago, paulyjet said:

The maturity level of Jets fans is hugely displayed right here in this thread. 

Will we ever be better.

 

Smh

Go milk a lizard.

[rangerous]

On 11/13/2023 at 9:47 PM, doitny said:

i know, another Zach thread right....

so we lost yesterday and Zach played ok. it was the penalties and drops right? 

well would it surprise you that we are the 4th least team in defensive penalties with 44? we are 2 short of leading the league in least penalties. Dallas, Buffalo have 56. SF 57, the Eagles have 61.

on offense it was lower but now were 17th with 60. the same as KC and Buffalo. SF has 62. 

and we are 9th least in yards with 443. Buffalo 476, KC 500, Det 502, Balt 532, Dall 544, SF 565. so when your complaining that we keep getting pushed back. there are a hell of a lot more teams getting pushed back even farther than us. including some of the best in the NFL.

wow look at all those penalties from SF and Buffalo. what undisciplined teams. someone should fire there HCs.

point is, everyone gets them. some of the best teams get the same or alot more than us. whats the difference? they have a QB and we have the 30th worst in the NFL. 

with Zach we have to be perfect. no penalties, no drops. defense pitching a near shutout every week. nobody can play a mistake free game.

so next time you want to complain about penalties dont, we commit less for less yards then some of the best teams around. but they can make it up with there QBs, and we cant. its the QB, not the HC.

I just watched some of jetsX from Blewitt about Sundays game and he showed at least five run plays that went no where because of penalty or missed blocks.  He showed the two holds on uzomah, a hold on Tomlinson and two missed blocks by becton.  This pretty much proves the Raiders could be run on but the jets execution was poor.  Mind everyone, those runs included a nice run by hall, one by gWilson and the td by hall.  Blewitt also showed a couple of drops by gWilson.  Zach can be the second coming of Tom Brady and he’s not going to score tds with that kind of execution.

[doitny]

3 hours ago, rangerous said:

I just watched some of jetsX from Blewitt about Sundays game and he showed at least five run plays that went no where because of penalty or missed blocks.  He showed the two holds on uzomah, a hold on Tomlinson and two missed blocks by becton.  This pretty much proves the Raiders could be run on but the jets execution was poor.  Mind everyone, those runs included a nice run by hall, one by gWilson and the td by hall.  Blewitt also showed a couple of drops by gWilson.  Zach can be the second coming of Tom Brady and he’s not going to score tds with that kind of execution.

last night Baltimore had 9 penalties for 110 yds plus a 64 yd TD called back.... and they still scored 34 points. so please dont tell me about poor Zach and the penalties. everybody gets them and drops and if they have a good QB they overcome them. if they have what we have, the worst in the NFL then they sink your team.

and if Zach was even half the QB TB12 was he would overcome all those mistakes just like Lamar did last night.

[Ron Rico]

2 minutes ago, doitny said:

last night Baltimore had 9 penalties for 110 yds plus a 64 yd TD called back.... and they still scored 34 points. so please dont tell me about poor Zach and the penalties.

[Ron Rico]

3 minutes ago, doitny said:

last night Baltimore had 9 penalties for 110 yds plus a 64 yd TD called back.... and they still scored 34 points. so please dont tell me about poor Zach and the penalties. everybody gets them and drops and if they have a good QB they overcome them. if they have what we have, the worst in the NFL then they sink your team.

and if Zach was even half the QB TB12 was he would overcome all those mistakes just like Lamar did last night.

Remember when I apologized to you for wanting Carr? I'd like to apologize to the people who wanted Lamar Jackson. Not sure if we could have acquired him for what we gave up to get Arodge

[doitny]

19 minutes ago, Ron Rico said:

Remember when I apologized to you for wanting Carr? I'd like to apologize to the people who wanted Lamar Jackson. Not sure if we could have acquired him for what we gave up to get Arodge

no need to apologize pal, at least you didnt want Zach.

now apologizes from the Zach boys is what im waiting for. but im not sure there going to be able to speak with all that egg they have on there face for 3 years of garbage football. 

[Larz]

The penalties are the problem, not Zach

[Larz]

After coming out of the darkness with Aaron next year

Learn it, Live it ,  love it 

 

[Ron Rico]

Zach every time he gets in the "gold zone" 

[Dunnie]

Tempted to create the obligatory ...

Penalties are the problem not Zach thread ..

But taking all power in the universe to fight the urge.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[doitny]

29 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Tempted to create the obligatory ...

Penalties are the problem not Zach thread ..

But taking all power in the universe to fight the urge.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

well i can tell you right off the bat to look at last nights game where Balt had 9 penalties for 110 yds and a 64 yd TD called back. and they still scored 34 points.

if we had 9 for 110 yds and scored 10 points you and all the Zach boys would be crying how its not Zachs fault. yes he didnt commit the penalties but other teams have no problems overcoming those things but with Zach , its over. we cant do nothing if that happens to us.

but go ahead, start that thread. the entire NFL on defense commit more penalties than us and half the teams on offense do it more than us. 

[Ron Rico]

Garret Wilson just keeps dropping easy passes. As does Lazard. And Uzomah. Then there's the drive killing penalties on Ruckert and sh*t. 

I don't know what else to tell you, Zach haters. 

[Rich Thornburgh]

11 hours ago, Ron Rico said:

Garret Wilson just keeps dropping easy passes. As does Lazard. And Uzomah. Then there's the drive killing penalties on Ruckert and sh*t. 

I don't know what else to tell you, Zach haters. 

You remind me of drunken giants fans in the mid 90’s screaming at me about how great Dave Brown would be if his receivers didn’t keep dropping his passes

[T0mShane]

Another TS Podcast snippet share because my life is rich and full, but chalk up another few data points on the “Ex player analysts who are outright disgusted by Zach Wilson’s continued presence in the league.”

Andrew Whitworth and Ryan Fitzpatrick being interviewed on PMT about the state of play in the league, etc. They’re asked generally about how blame gets divided up when an OL is bad and the QB is struggling, and whose fault it really is. Specifically, they are asked about Zach Wilson with the Jets. They give the usual answer about having the OC work around it by finding out what the QB “does well” vs what the OL can handle—is it the type of QB that likes to climb the pocket? Does he like to move? Does he take deep drops? Whitworth, bringing it back to Zach, just kills him—says it’s impossible to “buy in” with Zach because he has “no feel” for the game, and nobody knows what he does well. Fitzpatrick is asked about Zach taking huge losses on sacks, and Fitzpatrick compares it to Justin Fields (while also acknowledging that Zach had been better at it until recently). They end this part of the conversation by saying how, by comparison, Will Levis looks so much better and what big fans they are of Levis because of how he understands pocket movement etc. 

“Good post, Tom, you loser. Maybe read a book?” I know, yes, true. But I’ve been absolutely fascinated by the outright scorn these analysts have dumped at Zach Wilson’s feet and 1. The underpinnings of that scorn because it sounds personal and 2. Why these analysts feel so free to outright sh*t on Zach Wilson when they’re normally so cautious with their criticism of young players. 
 

1:32:00-1:38(?)ish

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pardon-my-take/id1089022756?i=1000635146909

[UntouchableCrew]

22 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 But I’ve been absolutely fascinated by the outright scorn these analysts have dumped at Zach Wilson’s feet and 1. The underpinnings of that scorn because it sounds personal and 2. Why these analysts feel so free to outright sh*t on Zach Wilson when they’re normally so cautious with their criticism of young players. 
 

1:32:00-1:38(?)ish

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pardon-my-take/id1089022756?i=1000635146909

I agree, it’s odd and it’s been like that since his rookie year. You hear these stories of him blowing off chances to meet Drew Brees or Joe Namath and you see stuff about how he carried himself at the draft and you wonder if he’s just an entitled prick who earned a really bad reputation early on. Obviously his play has earned the scorn but I completely agree that he doesn’t get “protected” the way a lot of young players do in the media.