Breer Offers Specifics on Cowherd Interview Regarding Jets GM Being Overruled

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Just a coincidence. Funny he just happens to mention JetBlue. 

There is no “coincidence”

 

[jamesr]

40 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Sauce was a marketable player, Woody cashed in on Revis Island, twice. He wears #1. Gets Bdub commercials. His name outweighs his production which is why I’d look to deal him to build the offense, but the Jets and Sauce have built quite the name for him and it’s met with a lot of anger around these parts if you question the production .  Fact is he has two interceptions in 2 years (1 on a tipped pass from Skylar Thompson) 1 career forced fumble, and 5 career TFL’s. The Jets aren’t changing their defense any time soon, which is strictly zone. And he’s Woodys guy. He even got a cool chain to show him. 

I get that your point is about the one player rather than the D as a whole, but the Jets D is 5th in interceptions on the year and joint 5th in passes defensed. Given that it is generally a pass-oriented game these days, having a strong DB unit is a desirable thing.

[oatmeal]

Someone need to bump the fire JD thread, what a fraud 

“jD gOt uS oRoTy aNd DrOtY”

NOPE that was partially Woody Johnson 

LMFAO

You can’t make this ish up!!!!

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Warfish]

10 minutes ago, football guy said:

So essentially what this comes down to is that your envious someone knows more than you do

Not in the least, tons of folks here know more than I do.  Literally tons.

10 minutes ago, football guy said:

, and your upset that you don't get enough attention for what you share?

Dude, I get more that enough "attention" lol.  

10 minutes ago, football guy said:

I'm confused. My best suggestion for you: go climb in a hole and ignore it. Weep if you have to. I have nothing more to say to you lol 

And my suggestion to you is to stop pretending you're the Assistant GM of the Jets in the room and deeply involved with JD and Saleh and their inner thoughts when decisions are being made.

[JustInFudge]

44 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Sauce was a marketable player, Woody cashed in on Revis Island, twice. He wears #1. Gets Bdub commercials. His name outweighs his production which is why I’d look to deal him to build the offense, but the Jets and Sauce have built quite the name for him and it’s met with a lot of anger around these parts if you question the production .  Fact is he has two interceptions in 2 years (1 on a tipped pass from Skylar Thompson) 1 career forced fumble, and 5 career TFL’s. The Jets aren’t changing their defense any time soon, which is strictly zone. And he’s Woodys guy. He even got a cool chain to show him. 

I'm not trying to get in the way of your Woody drafted Sauce conspiracy or trying to pull off your, Sauce Gardner really sucks hill but I'm not sure the stat game is the reason why.  I'm sure you'd agree Surtain is up there in the top 5 convo and he has 1 pick this season and 1 more then Sauce over the last 2 years.  You could do this game w/ a lot of great corners, especially in their first couple of season in the league.   Reed has been pretty incredible as well, only 2 picks in 2 seasons.  

Anyway, carry on! 

[FTL Jet Fan]

13 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

There is no “coincidence”

 

Exactly I don’t believe in them either. Brought to you by 1JD presented by JetBlue. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

How could you not trust this man to make football decisions?

Looks very knowledgeable to me.

[football guy]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Not in the least, tons of folks here know more than I do.  Literally tons.

Dude, I get more that enough "attention" lol.  

And my suggestion to you is to stop pretending you're the Assistant GM of the Jets in the room and deeply involved with JD and Saleh and their inner thoughts when decisions are being made.

No lol

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

I'm not trying to get in the way of your Woody drafted Sauce conspiracy or trying to pull off your, Sauce Gardner really sucks hill but I'm not sure the stat game is the reason why.  I'm sure you'd agree Surtain is up there in the top 5 convo and he has 1 pick this season and 1 more then Sauce over the last 2 years.  You could do this game w/ a lot of great corners, especially in their first couple of season in the league.   Reed has been pretty incredible as well, only 2 picks in 2 seasons.  

Anyway, carry on! 

Like which ones? At some point, a play here and a play there should be made by the 4th overall pick. 

[JetPotato]

26 minutes ago, football guy said:

I agree with you. Unfortunately most organizations don't work this way. Of the 31 teams with owners, more than half involve themselves in football decisions. 

 

26 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Better a clown than a liar.

By the way, might want to revisit your consistent takes on Zach Wilson since your arrival, and we'll see which of us was the real clown.

Am I still allowed to like both of you guys? You're both great posters. We need more of guys like you and less of others. Not asking you to get along, just no sides taken.

[slimjasi]

8 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Exactly I don’t believe in them either. Brought to you by 1JD pressed by JetBlue. 

This is a CLASSIC misconception. Actually, coincidences happen all the time - they are statistically unavoidable - the field of probability doesn’t make sense without things lining up sometimes. I’d recommend a stats course, friend. 

Funnily enough, if there were never any coincidences, THAT would be statistical proof of “something funny going on.” But folks like you amusingly confuse this basic principle and profess the exact opposite - you treat coincidences suspiciously, often erroneously attributing them to nefarious conspiracies, when in fact, their existence is nothing more than a manifestation of statistical randomness. 

[FTL Jet Fan]

9 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

This is a CLASSIC misconception. Actually, coincidences happen all the time - they are statistically unavoidable - the field of probability doesn’t make sense without things lining up sometimes. I’d recommend a stats course, friend. 

Funnily enough, if there were never any coincidences, THAT would be statistical proof of “something funny going on.” But folks like you amusingly confuse this basic principle and profess the exact opposite - you treat coincidences suspiciously, often erroneously attributing them to nefarious conspiracies, when in fact, their existence is nothing more than a manifestation of statistical randomness. 

For the most part yes you are correct. I am not talking about running into your friend at the store or your typical daily occurrence. I am speaking on behavioral traits and actions of people.  It’s pretty simple to see. With respect, as you say folks like me, yes to you I could be just your average goof spouting non sense about conspiracy theories. If I followed that logic my career would have been short lived working in the field. 

[32EBoozer]

35 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

 

Am I still allowed to like both of you guys? You're both great posters. We need more of guys like you and less of others. Not asking you to get along, just no sides taken.

[slimjasi]

5 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

For the most part yes you are correct. I am not talking about running into your friend at the store or your typical daily occurrence. I am speaking on behavioral traits and actions of people.  

1) this is a distinction without a difference. Behavioral traits and the actions of people are still subject to the laws of probability and statistics.

2) Which “behavioral traits” and “actions” are you referring to in this case? Be specific. Which “coincidence” is hard for you to believe? Be specific. 

[JustInFudge]

36 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Like which ones? At some point, a play here and a play there should be made by the 4th overall pick. 

I agree but I dont think it's the end all be all measurement for a corner. 

Honestly, I'd have to do research but it's sounds pretty accurate.  lol  Aaron Glenn immediately comes to mind.  1 pick over his first 2 seasons.  and some quick looks, there a few others who werent forcing turnovers right away, Winfield, Barber, Vincent. Samuel, a few others w/ 2-3 more picks which I dont think is super significant of a difference. 

I think some of this is just scheme too, hence why Reed has only 2 INT's over 2 seasons but is playing like a top corner as well.  The Cover 3 press and bail is kind of designed more the pass rush to get home and in many ways is just a regular base package vs. a coach like Rex who would scheme and had interchangeable parts and was brilliant at forcing decisions to one side of the field or setting up traps for Revis to make a play on the ball since teams avoided him so often.  If you look back at the dominate Saleh D in San Fran, his corners didnt really have a ton of picks either.  Mosley and Witherspoon both had 1 pick each, granted they werent top 4 picks but still think it's a factor.

 

 

[Matt39]

55 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

1) this is a distinction without a difference. Behavioral traits and the actions of people are still subject to the laws of probability and statistics.

2) Which “behavioral traits” and “actions” are you referring to in this case? Be specific. Which “coincidence” is hard for you to believe? Be specific. 

I think Zach had proven pretty clearly he didn’t belong anywhere near an NFL field and diving into his family connections(business and political) and  wealth were all fair game in connecting some dots back to Jets ownership. What exactly the benefit was for either side beyond having him as an NFL starter, who knows, but the secrecy behind the Zach Wilson era was extremely unusual. The apparent end we’re seeing know is still clouded in sketchiness. Maybe people are defensive over the world not behind fair I dunno. But these were easy conclusions to make. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

I think Zach had proven pretty clearly he didn’t belong anywhere near an NFL field and diving into his family connections and  wealth were all fair game in connecting some dots back to Jets ownership. What exactly the benefit was for either side beyond having him as an NFL starter, who knows, but the secrecy behind the Zach Wilson era was extremely unusual. The apparent end we’re seeing know is still clouded in sketchiness. 

With Woody / Chris Johnson at the helm, who knows, anything is possible…

Joe Douglas has gone out of his way since day 1 and remained defiant publicly that Zach Wilson is going to be a star, which is just ridiculous.

[Matt39]

7 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

With Woody / Chris Johnson at the helm, who knows, anything is possible…

Joe Douglas has gone out of his way since day 1 and remained defiant publicly that Zach Wilson is going to be a star, which is just ridiculous.

I can’t remember the last time Joe Douglas said anything 

[Alka]

15 hours ago, Dcat said:

explain to me how this "organizational decision" works when GM & possibly HC both want player A, but owner wants player B?  Player B is chosen.  In this case, it's apparent that "organizational decision" means the rest of his "organization" obliges the boy pretending to be Commander-in-Chief.

I have no clue as to how they make "organizational decisions", but I will give a try as to the way I would approach it, if I was running the show.

Positions should be rated in need of importance, and positions should be weighted in how important a certain position is to the offense or defense.

Players should be properly vetted, and there should be a ranking of what each person likes, and then a ranking from the team as to the top players in each category.  

When it comes down to either Sauce Gardner or Ekwonu, whom they seemed to both love, they should be discussing not only who is the better choice, but how each position player can impact a game, and make a difference in the organization, and who do we have to play the position if we don't pick one player over the other.

I honestly don't think they are sitting there in the draft room, arguing who is better than the other.  I think they worked out these scenarios well before draft day. If I owned the team, if there are 2 players who everyone likes equally, the decision should be for the GM to make, since this is why you hired the guy.  

If Woody is sitting there in the draft room, and he overrules everyone on a pick, then in reality, the Jets are doomed for failure.  I hope that Woody is not that stupid.  

[Long Island Leprechaun]

2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Like which ones? At some point, a play here and a play there should be made by the 4th overall pick. 

Looks like you're going to die on your "Sauce Gardner is soft" hill. It's really gotten tiresome.

[slimjasi]

31 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I think Zach had proven pretty clearly he didn’t belong anywhere near an NFL field and diving into his family connections(business and political) and  wealth were all fair game in connecting some dots back to Jets ownership. What exactly the benefit was for either side beyond having him as an NFL starter, who knows, but the secrecy behind the Zach Wilson era was extremely unusual. The apparent end we’re seeing know is still clouded in sketchiness. Maybe people are defensive over the world not behind fair I dunno. But these were easy conclusions to make. 

Ok.

Question:

Were Zach Wilson’s family connections and wealth responsible for all 23 of the NFL GMs anonymously polled by Charley Casserly magically rating Zach as the second best QB available in the 2021 draft? 

Isn’t it more likely that the Jets, along with most of the rest of the NFL, simply misevaluated the QB class, much like they always do? 

NFL teams are bad at projecting which college QBs will be good pros, and bad NFL teams (like the Jets) are especially bad at it. 
 

[Smashmouth]

6 hours ago, JustInFudge said:

Guys, I watched a lot of NFL Football this weekend and you know what was glaring to me this week?  Everyone's OL sucks, except the Ravens and occasionally the 49'ers.  Legit, everyone that you fawn over on this board and bitch and cry and moan that the Jets didnt draft or sign, sucks and you would curse them to the high heavens if they were on this team.

Did anyone watch the Panthers vs. Jags game?  Ikey sucks.  He's a turnstile.  The Jags hit Young like 10 times, they gave up 5 sacks between Josh Allen and Travon Walker.   And while the Jags were ok, their OL sucked too giving up 3 sacks and a bunch of hits on Bethard. Even the great Sewell for the Lions.  Now he wasnt a turnstile giving free run at Goff but he was getting pushed around all game long, getting pushed into Goff's lap and while they only gave up 1 sack, Goff was hit like 10 times and forced him into a bunch of bad throws and picks and they could not run the ball to his side at all.  

As I specifically watched both games and noticed, all of these OL's are not great by any means, the biggest difference in those games was Goff getting the ball out a littler faster and the Lions having a more dependent run game.  Then throw in the other games I watched and this was consistent across the board.  Teams w/ good QB, amazingly had good OL play.  Teams w/ bad QB's, well, guess what?  

I understand that that I'm using this week as observation but this is consistent around the league, year wide.  This is why retired greats have knocked the level of play around the league.  It's not the skills positions, those are arguably the best we've ever seen.  We have really good to great QB play all around the league.  The one common denominator?  OL play sucks and the way you work around it, is you either have an offense w/ weapons and a QB who can overcome it or you dont, bottom line.  Now, I'm not trying to say the Jets shouldnt focus on OL.  They should.  They need to better players to protect the QB and run block but IMO, this is a league wide issue not exclusive to the Jets and I think w/ better QB play and health, we'd probably feel a lot different about the guys currently on the roster. 

Which leads me back to my point I've been making for a few years now, OL play is down across the board and injures are up!   This isnt exclusive to the Jets (though injuries do seem way up on this  team).  I think the days of dominate OL's are probably over, there are very few "elite, HOF" type of players in the league.  You're not seeing Tackles going in the top 5 anymore.  They go around 10-12 range.  You're seeing more OL hit the FA market then ever before.  Teams win w/ inadequate blocking, all the time and they do it w/ great weapons and great QB play.  

Which leads me to this conclusion; the OL is actually the easiest unit to fill in the entire NFL.  OL, specifically T,  is the most drafted position, year in year out.  You dont have to prioritize all your top end resources to build a successful OL.  You need adequate players, w/ a QB who knows how to read a D/make adjustments at the LOS and most importantly, get the ball out on time.   This is more important to OL play, then, having to have probowlers all across the OL.

 

I made a point similar to this about a month ago. I agree but I think the problem is more along the lines of the defense catching up too and surpassing the offense. There is too much speed and rotation of fresh players along the line and this is too much for the O line to handle. In the old days the OL used to be able to wear out the DL running the ball running screens but those days are over  now since teams can hit them with fresh bodies late in games and the O line is now getting worn out from start to finish. You can't rotate Lineman like that on the OL its just not doable so they in turn get their asses handed to them.

What will the NFL do now that this will lead too offenses and QB's having a real hard time scoring points ? That's what remains to be seen. But mark my words it will happen cant have the poster Boys and money generating players getting the beat down week after week.

[Matt39]

21 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Ok.

Question:

Were Zach Wilson’s family connections and wealth responsible for all 23 of the NFL GMs anonymously polled by Charley Casserly magically rating Zach as the second best QB available in the 2021 draft? 

Isn’t it more likely that the Jets, along with most of the rest of the NFL, simply misevaluated the QB class, much like they always do? 

NFL teams are bad at projecting which college QBs will be good pros, and bad NFL teams (like the Jets) are especially bad at it. 
 

They definitely missed and that was a collective effort. I think since it was established he couldn’t play (year 1) the amount of gaslighting done from everyone within the Jets to protect Wilson, his progress, expectations etc were likely in part because he had a connection to the owner. It’s not like they were ever consistently winning with Wilson like they did with Sanchez year 1 and year 2. The offense was horrendous every time he played.  I don’t buy Douglas was willing to lose games to try and save face on a draft pick. He didn’t leverage resources to get Zach. He missed- it happens. 

The fact they didn’t even consider bringing in someone else once Rodgers went down or even during the bye was wild. Boyle as the backup? None of it made sense. 

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I made a point similar to this about a month ago. I agree but I think the problem is more along the lines of the defense catching up too and surpassing the offense. There is too much speed and rotation of fresh players along the line and this is too much for the O line to handle. In the old days the OL used to be able to wear out the DL running the ball running screens but those days are over  now since teams can hit them with fresh bodies late in games and the O line is now getting worn out from start to finish. You can't rotate Lineman like that on the OL its just not doable so they in turn get their asses handed to them.

What will the NFL do now that this will lead too offenses and QB's having a real hard time scoring points ? That's what remains to be seen. But mark my words it will happen cant have the poster Boys and money generating players getting the beat down week after week.

I have been wondering about this too.  Potential idea is to rotate in shifts.  You don't need a full constant rotation, but you can do things situationally and/or have a package of plays for one group and a different package for another.  One of the issues watching it seems to be the shift to faster move OL.  Watching Becton it is particularly annoying.  He is wildly shuffling his feet and looking who to block.  A guy his size should just be blasting whatever ****er he can get his hands on.  I get the whole zone blocking thing and that with the sophistication of the rushes that it is necessary to a major extent.  Still sometimes it is good to just put a hat on somebody and knock them on their ass when you can.

[slimjasi]

6 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

They definitely missed and that was a collective effort. I think since it was established he couldn’t play (year 1) the amount of gaslighting done from everyone within the Jets to protect Wilson, his progress, expectations etc were likely in part because he had a connection to the owner. The fact they didn’t even consider bringing in someone else once Rodgers went down or even during the bye was wild. Boyle as the backup? None of it made sense. 

I think the jets are stubborn and have trouble admitting mistakes - this seems to be a core Joe Douglas trait. I also think this trait is exacerbated by Douglas and Saleh being delusionally positive about everything and everybody - Basically, a downstream effect of positive vibes only. 
 

Either way, Zach will be gone this offseason. I can’t wait. 

[THE BARON]

17 hours ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Who would work for this guy, we wonder why all coaches and GM’s fail here, there is only on common denominator. Woody.

Yep.  100 %.  Same owner guarantees same bad results.  Year after year after year after year  after year after year after year  after year after year after year  after year after year after year after year after year after year ...

[#27TheDominator]

22 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

They definitely missed and that was a collective effort. I think since it was established he couldn’t play (year 1) the amount of gaslighting done from everyone within the Jets to protect Wilson, his progress, expectations etc were likely in part because he had a connection to the owner. It’s not like they were ever consistently winning with Wilson like they did with Sanchez year 1 and year 2. The offense was horrendous every time he played.  I don’t buy Douglas was willing to lose games to try and save face on a draft pick. He didn’t leverage resources to get Zach. He missed- it happens. 

The fact they didn’t even consider bringing in someone else once Rodgers went down or even during the bye was wild. Boyle as the backup? None of it made sense. 

I know board logic is that Boyle was not a valid backup, but as #3?  From 2019-2021 he was a valid backup on some good Green Bay teams and for Detroit who most are touting as knowing what they are doing now.  Those are some solid football minds, plus Nathaniel Hackett.  Did he deserve to be?  Looks like he didn't, but the idea that it was just waving the white flag seems a bit much.  Same could be said for Billy Turner.  The guy has been an absolute abomination, but he started 8 games last year and 13 and 14 in 2021 and 2022 for a very good Green Bay offense.  It would seem he was a valid choice for #3/4/5 tackle, but in practice he has simply blown.

[HawkeyeJet]

So now that this is clear, I have a hard time believing Woody’s dumb a** had much of an idea who Sauce or Ickey were before the draft or lobbied for either.   Neither were “sexy” picks and if anything, I find it difficult believing he’d push for the QB over the tackle even if he did know the difference.

Not for nothing, I think Okwonu has not been god for Carolina, so we got the best of this exchange, however it truly played out.

[JustInFudge]

31 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I made a point similar to this about a month ago. I agree but I think the problem is more along the lines of the defense catching up too and surpassing the offense. There is too much speed and rotation of fresh players along the line and this is too much for the O line to handle. In the old days the OL used to be able to wear out the DL running the ball running screens but those days are over  now since teams can hit them with fresh bodies late in games and the O line is now getting worn out from start to finish. You can't rotate Lineman like that on the OL its just not doable so they in turn get their asses handed to them.

What will the NFL do now that this will lead too offenses and QB's having a real hard time scoring points ? That's what remains to be seen. But mark my words it will happen cant have the poster Boys and money generating players getting the beat down week after week.

For sure.  The guys who play in the front 7 are different this day in age.  Way more fast twitch then just brute forces of nature.  You got edge testing like wideouts in this era and teams are asking the OL to pass protect, more then run block.. which is leaving their high priced commodities in the line of fire every play and also why pocket passers get hurt just as much as Qb's who can take off and run, but I digress.  I think there is something to playing on your heels all game vs playing down hill and consequently, we love the QB's who can see the field and make the quick decision to counter act the modern pass rush, trying to get the ball out in under 3 seconds.  In some regard, when you think about it that way, it kind of does minimize the importance of what used to be the most important building block of all, a dominant T and one again emphasizes the QB's who get it out quickly but then shifts importance to get who get open quickly and consistently.

 

[Jet2020]

1. We were so desperate for a tackle, we picked Max Mitchell with our sixth draft choice in the 4th round. 
2. We drafted AVT in the first the year before and Mekhi a year earlier. I agree you build OL but certainly not by using 5 fist rounders. 
3. everyone knew we were going QB in 2020 so that story is garbage  but in 2022, we made the right choice, so if ownership did butt in, good.
4. There were several other OL options even after Sauce for our 2nd pick. Maybe ownership told JD I didn’t hire you to build the OL with 5 first rounders in 5 years.

JD sucks. It’s not hard to tell this guy wtf needs to be done. Just do what your gut tells you not to do and avoid doing what you feel is the best strategy. 
 

[C Mart]

16 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Ekwonu has committed 12 penalties and allowed 10 sacks in 2023

Bryce Young is running for his life every week out there

So, if true, this serves as yet another reminder that Joe Douglas is an idiot who has no clue how to scout OL talent 

Ha....You can't say that..That's like saying Mahomes would be Mahomes if drafted by the Jets...It's just not true...Nevermind all the draft "experts" had Ekwonu as the 1st or 2nd OT that draft and a top 10 pick.  Carolina's stability has been worse than the Jets..

[C Mart]

8 hours ago, varjet said:

Woody “having a say” on whether they pick a cb over an OTbis ridiculous.

But the fact that the Jets would have picked Ekwonu if the Texans picked Sauce like they should have is also ridiculous. 
 

The Jets are doing no real scouting. 

No real scouting..What does that mean?

[C Mart]

4 hours ago, football guy said:

I never "touted" anything. I don't consider myself anything other than a fan. I happen to know people in the industry, and I guarantee if other posters were in my shoes they would do the exact same thing, just like Moggelz did. Why? Because the one commonality of everyone on here is that we're all crazy Jets fans that clearly can't stop talking about the Jets, hyper analyzing every decision they face and giving our opinions on them. I started posting on here during COVID, and when I found out that Saleh was their top candidate I shared it on here. Some fans freaked accusing me of making it up so I shot back at people, the mods got involved, and I shared my sources with them. The rest was history. You guys made me into an "insider", not me. 

IIRC - you were also all over Carolina's interest in trading for Darnold long before the trade

[varjet]

23 minutes ago, C Mart said:

No real scouting..What does that mean?

The Jets pick too many players that do not appear to have what it takes to succeed in the NFL. 

In doing so they pass over players that are successful. 

Zach Wilson, Mims, Becton, Ashtyn Davis, etc.    Players are picked around where Mitchell and Warren were picked who go onto be successful RG and RTs.  

[football guy]

57 minutes ago, C Mart said:

IIRC - you were also all over Carolina's interest in trading for Darnold long before the trade

I’m not trying to get into a **** measuring contest to point out all the things I’ve shared. Just making a point that the main thing that got a few of the legacy posters all riled up on here started with the news that Saleh was their top option when no one expected he would be (hell the Jets didn’t even go into it expecting him to be the top option, but JD and Saleh clicked and everyone loved his zoom interview). That’s when the attacks on credibility started for what reason I still don’t know lol