Why didn’t Todd Bowles Bowles call a time out: MERGED

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Bad EV career move 🤣🤣😭

The mental gymnastics are amusing.

Bowles might not get hired again for having the audacity to try to win a playoff game.

The nerve of that guy!

[bitonti]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Quadrupling down on your horrid take, I see.

Again.  If this was a 9+ point game in the regular season you’d have a point.  There’s no such stupid gentleman’s agreement with a one possession game in the playoffs.  You claw till the last second when you have a chance.  Always.  

No one is going to kick Bowles out of the fraternity purely for calling a friggin timeout there.   They might for other reasons - but not that.  

Just take the L.  Like Bowles did.  

You know who does petty sh*t like that? Eric mangini 

Survival in the NFL is more about being in the frat than wins and losses. How likeable are you? It's sports entertainment only D bags like manigini and belly take the time out there. And no one likes either of those guys. Belly can control his career but Todd Bowles and 99 percent of the league get drummed out over petty grievances all the time 

Don't believe that? OK go ask Eric mangini

[Jetsfan80]

30 minutes ago, bitonti said:

You know who does petty sh*t like that? Eric mangini 

Survival in the NFL is more about being in the frat than wins and losses. How likeable are you? It's sports entertainment only D bags like manigini and belly take the time out there. And no one likes either of those guys. Belly can control his career but Todd Bowles and 99 percent of the league get drummed out over petty grievances all the time 

Don't believe that? OK go ask Eric mangini

Petty.  Trying to win a playoff game is…petty.  

Quintupling down I see.  Keep going?  I’d like to see where this rabbit hole in your brain continues to go to justify one of the worst takes I’ve ever seen on JN.

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

I get all this. It's possible he could have won the game somehow 

but at what personal cost? Todd Bowles will eventually need to work again. He's not belly.

To steal a win like that from Dan Campbell while technically possible is a bad EV career move. Chances are you call the timeout, you still lose and the rest of your colleagues remembers you're a dick forever. 

There are certain unwritten rules in the league and one of them is once you agree the game is over it's over 

To do otherwise is like that fake slide Zach wilson and Josh Allen love so much. Just gross low character shenanigans. 

 

You don’t think John Harbaugh takes timeout there? Where is your brain wandering off to here. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Belly has a bad reputation with other coaches he's not in the union and I guess that all works for him 

In the rest of the world coaches end games early all the time out of respect and run out the clock when they have other options 

I get what you guys are saying about having 30 seconds left but that only happened because Goff got sloppy bleeding the clock 

The original math says the game is over. For Bowles to go back on that agreement for a less than 1 percent chance of baker scoring a touchdown is foolish

I just totally disagree that anyone would begrudge Bowles for seeing an opportunity he wasn't supposed to have, and acting in his team's best interest to take advantage of it.

This isn't in the same "you just don't do that" act as running up the score in the last minute after you're already up by 40 instead of just taking a knee. 

His job is to win the game. Players and coaches alike are supposed to take advantage of things the opponent did wrong. That goes 1 billion-fold in a single elimination playoff game. 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

There has never been a moment in sports history where a coach would be blacklisted for trying to win a game. In terms of winning percentage, The Bucs had a higher chance of winning that game if Bowles called a time out than the Jets did in their comeback against the Browns. The Jets had to score, recover an onside kick, and then score again. All Bowles needed was a missed/blocked FG and a returned TD or a recovery and a Hail Mary. 

[varjet]

At this point Todd Bowles is the coach that Saleh should aspire to be.  He has a tough team and appears to have figured out how to get an offense on the field.   Bowles is probably Saleh's ceiling. 

[Maxta_p]

I actually think Bowles did a great job coaching his team to the playoffs this year. I think criticizing this scenario is a way for some of us fans to feel better about a former coach having success with another team.  In reality, Bowles did a very good job navigating the season and making the playoffs with a quarterback that is widely known as "back-up caliber" In fact he was brought in, mainly to compete with Trask.

[bitonti]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Petty.  Trying to win a playoff game is…petty.  

Quintupling down I see.  Keep going?  I’d like to see where this rabbit hole in your brain continues to go to justify one of the worst takes I’ve ever seen on JN.

It's not about wins or losses 

It's sports entertainment and like any job, how high you get is often about having the right people like you. 

For Bowles to call a timeout there hurts his professional prospects 

These guys stick together. It's not 32 enemies it's 32 franchises of burger King 

And if you don't understand what I'm saying, look at the career arc of Eric mangini 

I'll octople down on this it's a greasy frat and if you're not in it you will not work 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

It's not about wins or losses 

It's sports entertainment and like any job, how high you get is often about having the right people like you. 

For Bowles to call a timeout there hurts his professional prospects 

These guys stick together. It's not 32 enemies it's 32 franchises of burger King 

And if you don't understand what I'm saying, look at the career arc of Eric mangini 

I'll octople down on this it's a greasy frat and if you're not in it you will not work 

 

Woah Mangini once tried to win a playoff game and got blackballed over it?  No way!  Got a link?

Have you ever once admitted you were wrong in your life?  Because if ever there was a time to do so, it’s on this take.  

Other than, perhaps, a certain bowling ball with butcher’s knives from the University of Kentucky back in ‘03.  I don’t think you even admitted you were wrong back then.  You just turned into a “hey, the draft is a complete crapshoot” guy.

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, Matt39 said:

You don’t think John Harbaugh takes timeout there? Where is your brain wandering off to here. 

“I’m never wrong” Land.  

[batman10023]

On 1/22/2024 at 12:01 PM, bitonti said:

The only reason this looks so bad is because Goff kneeled with 16 seconds on his play clock 

let's go through the math again but pretend Bowles was actually trying to get it back for real 

1:33 1st down at tbb 28. kneel. Last Time out. 

1:32 2nd down at the tbb 29. Kneel

Minus 40 seconds 

0:52 3rd down at the tbb 30. Kneel

Minus 40 seconds 

0:12 punt minus 5-6 seconds or FG minus 3 seconds plus a kick off 

We're basically talking about 5 or 10 seconds left if it's for real 

To go back on a concession is bad form and don't forget these hcs are all in the union together they all give each other jobs it's not like I hate you and want you dead (except for belly he's like that) 

But let's imagine Bowles doesn't concede. It comes down to less than 10 seconds or possibly nothing left after a squib kick off 

 

agree with you on this point.  also remember they could have run on one of these downs to knock a few more seconds off the clock (instead of kneeling) - might not have been any time left - or maybe 1 sec.

once the bucs didn't call a time out, both teams were being classy and just letting the clock run out.

[batman10023]

On 1/22/2024 at 11:26 AM, bitonti said:

There's some talk from the Detroit folks they would have punted rather than kicked the field goal 

Their punter is automatic at pinning teams inside the 20. The kicker is only 77 percent over 45 yards 

So it's 25 seconds to go 80 or 90 yards with no timeouts and baker in full interception mode 

I get what everyone is saying but it's over at that point 

Good night Gracie 

and there was a unwritten agreement that no timeouts were going to get used.

[Larz]

It’s a really bad look to have a timeout left at the end of the game but the reality is a miracle is like a 1/ 5,000 shot there. Literally once in a lifetime stuff. 

[Matt39]

 

[Matt39]

 

[Matt39]

 

[bonkertons]

4 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

There has never been a moment in sports history where a coach would be blacklisted for trying to win a game. In terms of winning percentage, The Bucs had a higher chance of winning that game if Bowles called a time out than the Jets did in their comeback against the Browns. The Jets had to score, recover an onside kick, and then score again. All Bowles needed was a missed/blocked FG and a returned TD or a recovery and a Hail Mary. 

I was thinking about this.  That Giants win this year as well.  We were down 3 with like 40 seconds left and no timeouts - couldn't move the ball at all...like...AT ALL....and the Giants were about to make it a 6 point lead which would have guaranteed our demise.  We needed like 10 things to go perfect in order to have any shot, and they all somehow did.  They missed the field goal attempt.  Our offense somehow managed to make two big plays when they couldn't do sh*t all game.  We were gifted a timeout essentially by KT being offside.  We managed to kill the clock with less than one second left.  Oh, and we hit the field goal.

 

It's never over until it's over.  If you have a chance, especially in a playoff game, you take it.  Surprised this even needs to be debated.

[bonkertons]

4 hours ago, Maxta_p said:

I actually think Bowles did a great job coaching his team to the playoffs this year. I think criticizing this scenario is a way for some of us fans to feel better about a former coach having success with another team.  In reality, Bowles did a very good job navigating the season and making the playoffs with a quarterback that is widely known as "back-up caliber" In fact he was brought in, mainly to compete with Trask.

This is a pretty hot topic outside of this board as well, just fyi.  I was rooting for the Bucs.  I could give a **** about Bowles or his success(or lack thereof).  This is like 101 though.  To try to turn this into "this is just Jets fans being anti-Bowles" is just comical.

[Tooooon]

On 1/22/2024 at 11:12 AM, bitonti said:

They were at the tbb 30 that's a 45 yarder in a dome it's basically automatic 

Badgley missed two extra points this year, both indoors. Those are 33 yards.

[bonkertons]

2 minutes ago, Tooooon said:

Badgley missed two extra points this year, both indoors. Those are 33 yards.

I think once he realized that argument was stupid, he switched to this "gentleman's agreement", "coaching is a fraternity" nonsense.  It's a lost cause. 

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Woah Mangini once tried to win a playoff game and got blackballed over it?  No way!  Got a link?

Have you ever once admitted you were wrong in your life?  Because if ever there was a time to do so, it’s on this take.  

Other than, perhaps, a certain bowling ball with butcher’s knives from the University of Kentucky back in ‘03.  I don’t think you even admitted you were wrong back then.  You just turned into a “hey, the draft is a complete crapshoot” guy.

I admit I'm wrong all the time 

DRob I'm not sure I admitted I was wrong so much as made a 180 degree heel turn and stopped hoping for the Jets to ever get better

these NFL HCs and Assistants and scouts, the vibe in that room is fraternity run amok. It's a brotherhood and you're either in it or you're not  

you don't go back on a concession, You don't narc on your friends, Eric, and you don't risk your reputation by calling that final time out after everyone's basically agreed the game is over 

 it's not math, it's not the military, it's sports entertainment 

it's more important to be liked than to win games because there are 31 losers every year and it's not the winning that keeps you employed it's being a "good guy" whatever that means inside the NFL Fraternity  

 

[bitonti]

41 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

once the bucs didn't call a time out, both teams were being classy and just letting the clock run out.

the guys in this thread can't accept that two coaches would be classy and just let the clock run out 

it's essentially how every game ends every week 

[Matt39]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

I admit I'm wrong all the time 

DRob I'm not sure I admitted I was wrong so much as made a 180 degree heel turn and stopped hoping for the Jets to ever get better

these NFL HCs and Assistants and scouts, the vibe in that room is fraternity run amok. It's a brotherhood and you're either in it or you're not  

you don't go back on a concession, You don't narc on your friends, Eric, and you don't risk your reputation by calling that final time out after everyone's basically agreed the game is over 

 it's not math, it's not the military, it's sports entertainment 

it's more important to be liked than to win games because there are 31 losers every year and it's not the winning that keeps you employed it's being a "good guy" whatever that means inside the NFL Fraternity  

 

I don’t get your entertainment point. Some of the most memorable plays in league history were the Diggs touchdown and the Desean Jackson punt return. Bowles wasn’t getting fired for calling a timeout there lol.

[Barry McCockinner]

Bucs-Lions provides an important lesson about speaking up when something weird is happening

https://www.nbcsports.com/watch/nfl/profootballtalk/bowles-deserves-to-be-questioned-over-timeout

good point by Florio - can you imagine how bad Campbell would have been torched if the Bucs did take the timeout and ended up pulling off the miracle? Detroit probably would have burned.

[Matt39]

Welp, Goffs taking a knee and there’s 5 minutes left. Better starting packing up the sideline, this game is over. 

[Matt39]

If Goff fumbles the snap in victory formation, are the Bucs allowed to recover it? Or do the refs award the ball back to Detroit?

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

I admit I'm wrong all the time 

Sure ya do.  

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

the guys in this thread can't accept that two coaches would be classy and just let the clock run out 

it's essentially how every game ends every week 

Not in the f**king playoffs, guy.  

[Barry McCockinner]

47 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

If Goff fumbles the snap in victory formation, are the Bucs allowed to recover it? Or do the refs award the ball back to Detroit?

It's allowed but they have a gentleman's agreement to not attempt recovering a fumble that could win them the game in that particular scenario.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Barry McCockinner said:

It's allowed but they have a gentleman's agreement to not attempt recovering a fumble that could win them the game in that particular scenario.

“It’s more important to be liked than to try to win a playoff game”

- Bill Parcells, probably 

[Maxman]

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

the guys in this thread can't accept that two coaches would be classy and just let the clock run out 

it's essentially how every game ends every week 

If there is a mathematical chance, there is a chance.

[Barton]

Bowles is not head coach material. We know this. 

[Jet2020]

14 hours ago, Larz said:

It’s a really bad look to have a timeout left at the end of the game but the reality is a miracle is like a 1/ 5,000 shot there. Literally once in a lifetime stuff. 

No it’s not. Not 1 out of 5000.

Scenario 1: Lions don’t kick a FG. No sane HC would kick a 50 yarder and when you punt from the 33, it’s not easy to pin inside the 10 without risking a touchback. Let’s assume they do pin around the 10 with 28 seconds remaining. The chances of completing two sideline passes against total prevent D are very high. You can reach the 50 yard line with 16 seconds remaining. At that point, it’s still prevent D. I’d aim for another quick 15-20 yard pass. If it’s not there, you aim for the Hail Mary and get two shots at it. But if it’s there and you get the ball at the 30 with 8-10 seconds left, you have a better shot at touchdown than the Jets ever did the whole season  

Scenario 2:

Lions try a 50 yarder and miss. Give up the ball at the 40 with 30 seconds left  Against prevent D. Two 15 yard sideline passes against prevent D and you’re already at the Lions 30 with 18 seconds remaining. Another 10 yard pass? 13 seconds remaining? These are high completion passes ‘against prevent D’. Two shots at the EZ from the 20 and I’d take my chances there than not calling a TO and then be second guessing all off season. 
 

Miracle? Yeah, but not 1/5000. Definitely nothing you should berate your own team in the playoffs by saying “we did f*ck all, we weren’t capable of scoring, why prolong the inevitable”. Well, you weren’t going to win the SB, why even bother showing up to the playoffs then? 

[Jet2020]

I guess the fake spike cost Don Shula his career. He was banned by the league a year later in 1995 at age 65.