Rome Odunze vs. Brian Thomas jr

[Untouchable]

I think it’s hilarious how all of the “trade down” people just automatically assume we’d take a receiver or OT in that scenario.

I’d laugh my balls off (and cry a little) if the Jets traded down 6-8 spots, guys like Bowers, Thomas, Mims, etc go off the board and the Jets end up drafting Cooper DeJean or Byron Murphy.

[mrcoops]

1 hour ago, Green Ghost said:

I’m not a big JJM guy, but if he falls to 10 the Jets better take him. F**k moving back… take the QB.

I'd love to get the 21-year old JJ McCarthy to sit behind Rodgers for a year or two. Grooming a talented young QB behind a vet works.

But I just can't see it for the Jets this year. I think the #10 is an immediate impact player (like Odunze or Bowers) to add another option for Rodgers in an all-in year.

Or it's a trade-down to acquire an additional pick, then OL and WR with the first two picks, playing into the strength of the draft.

I do think JD picks a QB this year, but it's likely in the mid or late rounds.  I'd be stunned if he goes QB at 10.

[NYJCAP2]

4 hours ago, nycdan said:

Maybe.  But I think with QB, a team either has to have an answer for the present or the future.  Jones is neither.  Lock is neither.  They don't have an answer.  There's a good argument for filling out the offense today to help a new QB next year, but there may not be a single QB in the 2025 draft better than JJM as a prospect.  They also aren't looking particularly good for cap room in 2025 compared to the league as a whole.

They may need to do it now or subject themselves to a 2-year drought.  Unless they want to take a flier on ZW?

But the real question is, even if they don't want JJM, will they trade out to a team that does.  As long as he goes 1-9, it helps us.  Doesn't matter who takes him.

I’d argue they don’t want him to go in the top 9.

If he falls to 10, teams will be calling the Jets.

[mrcoops]

Just now, Untouchable said:

I think it’s hilarious how all of the “trade down” people just automatically assume we’d take a receiver or OT in that scenario.

I’d laugh my balls off (and cry a little) if the Jets traded down 6-8 spots, guys like Bowers, Thomas, Mims, etc go off the board and the Jets end up drafting Cooper DeJean or Byron Murphy.

Cooper DeJean is my dark horse pick for the Jets, after a trade down.  The Jets love talented, versatile athletes on D, and DeJean could add value all over the secondary.

[section314]

From my research for our mock, the biggest knock on Thomas is that he plays small despite being 6’4”. Scouts say he doesn’t fare well in contested balls. 

[Green Ghost]

27 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I'm not sure if this take is hypocritical or insane.  Your take is that McCarthy is worth a mid-1st/earl 2nd, but he is a MUST take at 10 because people are now saying that he will likely go no later than 6th overall?  You don't win games by taking guys later than they were projected.  You win games by picking guys that play better than where they were taken, or at least up to their slot. 

IMO the only reason to take McCarthy would be if some team right behind us was trying some brinksmanship on a trade up.  The three teams after us are all supposedly looking for McCarthy and that would be kin do of a ballsy Philip Rivers Eli Manning move.

Here’s my thing vis a vis taking McCarthy in the unlikely event he’s there at 10.

We have two QBs. One will be 41 in December and coming off a ruptured Achilles. The other is a 34yo journeyman who’s as fragile as an egg.

If you give me a choice between McCarthty or Brock Bowers? I take the QB.
Taking the TE out of the equation changes things, but I’d certainly think there’s a better than 0% chance they would go QB if the choices are 3rd best WR or 4th best OL which is what they’d be looking at if McCarthy is there at 10.
Even if you have him rated worse than 10, if he’s sitting there on a tee for you, he looks like a pretty viable selection there, no?

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

Here’s my thing vis a vis taking McCarthy in the unlikely event he’s there at 10.

We have two QBs. One will be 41 in December and coming off a ruptured Achilles. The other is a 34yo journeyman who’s as fragile as an egg.

If you give me a choice between McCarthty or Brock Bowers? I take the QB.
Taking the TE out of the equation changes things, but I’d certainly think there’s a better than 0% chance they would go QB if the choices are 3rd best WR or 4th best OL which is what they’d be looking at if McCarthy is there at 10.
Even if you have him rated higher than 10, if he’s sitting there on a tee for you, he looks like a pretty viable selection there, no?

Better than 0% is a pretty far cry from "they'd better take him if he falls."  IMO you never take a QB unless you think he can be the guy.  Whether you take him over somebody that can help now is based on what percentage chance that you think he can be the guy.  I think that percentage with McCarthy and this staff is low enough (and they are as much in a win now mode as we have ever seen) that it is pretty ******* close to 0%.  I am pretty high on swinging for the fences with QBs, and in their shoes I wouldn't even think about him.

[nycdan]

54 minutes ago, NYJCAP2 said:

I’d argue, they don’t want him to go in the top 9.

If he falls to 10, teams will be calling the Jets.

Who would you rather draft at #10 vs. trading down?  Sure a nice trade-down offer could be a good outcome, but if a guy we really like falls because JJM went before our pick, that's still pretty nice.  I'm not in a position to judge the players yet (if ever) but here are the consensus guys we might want or who are probably locks to go ahead of us:

QB (3): Williams, Maye, Daniels

WR (2): Harrison, Nabers

OT (1): Alt

That's six.  

The others in play are Turner (DE), Odunze (WR), Fuaga (OT), JJM (QB), and Bowers (TE).

At least two of them would be there at 10.  Clearly, we should want Turner gone by then, leaving us two of Odunze, Fuaga, Bowers, and JJM.  My gut says Odunze would be our pick if he's there.  If not, I could see an argument for listening to trade offers to move down a bit vs. Fuaga (really a RT) or Bowers.  If we like Fashanu, Fautanu, Latham, or Mims almost as much, it opens things up but I have no idea how they will be actually ranked.

[Green Ghost]

16 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Better than 0% is a pretty far cry from "they'd better take him if he falls."  IMO you never take a QB unless you think he can be the guy.  Whether you take him over somebody that can help now is based on what percentage chance that you think he can be the guy.  I think that percentage with McCarthy and this staff is low enough (and they are as much in a win now mode as we have ever seen) that it is pretty ******* close to 0%.  I am pretty high on swinging for the fences with QBs, and in their shoes I wouldn't even think about him.

Fair enough. Let’s agree to disagree.
I don’t think there’s any chance he’s there at 10 but if he somehow ends up there, they’re going to be both surprised and thinking very hard about taking him. 
I would, and I’m not even as high on him as most are.

[Augustiniak]

30 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Who would you rather draft at #10 vs. trading down?  Sure a nice trade-down offer could be a good outcome, but if a guy we really like falls because JJM went before our pick, that's still pretty nice.  I'm not in a position to judge the players yet (if ever) but here are the consensus guys we might want or who are probably locks to go ahead of us:

QB (3): Williams, Maye, Daniels

WR (2): Harrison, Nabers

OT (1): Alt

That's six.  

The others in play are Turner (DE), Odunze (WR), Fuaga (OT), JJM (QB), and Bowers (TE).

At least two of them would be there at 10.  Clearly, we should want Turner gone by then, leaving us two of Odunze, Fuaga, Bowers, and JJM.  My gut says Odunze would be our pick if he's there.  If not, I could see an argument for listening to trade offers to move down a bit vs. Fuaga (really a RT) or Bowers.  If we like Fashanu, Fautanu, Latham, or Mims almost as much, it opens things up but I have no idea how they will be actually ranked.

If the jets are intent on taking OL they can trade back bc there’s enough of them and the grades are probably similar.  

If they want wr, the question becomes how much do they like BTJ if rome and nabers are gone?

unfortunately i do think bowers is a possibility. 

[Green Ghost]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

That would be an AWFUL move by the Jets.

The biggest fail of this whole draft will be the team that takes McCarthy in the 1st round.

I too like to say things… 😉

[jetblue95]

1 hour ago, slats said:

No, I’m actually applying logic to the situation. They’re locked in with Rodgers at QB until he says otherwise and, let’s be honest here, JD is drafting for his job. He’s not taking a QB at #10 then sitting on his hands for two rounds in a draft where he needs to find an immediate impact player, not a QB likely to get his first start after the GM’s fired. 
 
0% chance, whether your JJM is there or not. 

 

i think the probability he takes a QB is low, but i think it is non-zero.

yes, JD is drafting for his job.  but part of his job is securing the long-time viability of the franchise.  and if he thinks JJ is going to be a franchise QB, and if the top WRs are off the board, then the choice becomes (i) drafting a lineman who may not even see the field much in this make-or-break year, (ii) drafting a TE, and (iii) setting the franchise up for the future by taking a QB, that you cannot completely rule out (iii).

 

i admit a bias as a michigan alum, although to be honest, i don't know if mccarthy is a future franchise QB.  i think he's best served being able to sit for some time (he just turned 21, so pretty young).  but i'm not paid to evaluate these guys.  sure, JD has whiffed on his QB picks.  but taking a QB is not a crazy thought, even if he is drafting for his job.

[NYJCAP2]

54 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Who would you rather draft at #10 vs. trading down?  Sure a nice trade-down offer could be a good outcome, but if a guy we really like falls because JJM went before our pick, that's still pretty nice.  I'm not in a position to judge the players yet (if ever) but here are the consensus guys we might want or who are probably locks to go ahead of us:

QB (3): Williams, Maye, Daniels

WR (2): Harrison, Nabers

OT (1): Alt

That's six.  

The others in play are Turner (DE), Odunze (WR), Fuaga (OT), JJM (QB), and Bowers (TE).

At least two of them would be there at 10.  Clearly, we should want Turner gone by then, leaving us two of Odunze, Fuaga, Bowers, and JJM.  My gut says Odunze would be our pick if he's there.  If not, I could see an argument for listening to trade offers to move down a bit vs. Fuaga (really a RT) or Bowers.  If we like Fashanu, Fautanu, Latham, or Mims almost as much, it opens things up but I have no idea how they will be actually ranked.

If they are stuck at 10, I think one of Odunze, Fuaga, Fashanu will be there and I’m OK with any of them.

[DoubleDown]

I don't see much difference between Odunze and Thomas.  I'd be happy with either at #10.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Green Ghost said:

I too like to say things… 😉

JJ McCarthy is a slightly taller version of Stetson Bennett with a slightly better arm.   He played for a run first team, was always looked on as a dubious prospect and after the Michigan nat champ in which the run game and defense and a rock solid line were key he is flying up the boards.

He is a worse prospect than Zach Wilson coming into the leauge.

It is going to be funny as hell to watch a team pick him top 10 due to perceived need.  Penix is a far better prospect and hell even Bo Nix who I think is fools gold are better prospects.

I'll be delighted if some team takes him top 9.

[section314]

44 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

JJ McCarthy is a slightly taller version of Stetson Bennett with a slightly better arm.   He played for a run first team, was always looked on as a dubious prospect and after the Michigan nat champ in which the run game and defense and a rock solid line were key he is flying up the boards.

He is a worse prospect than Zach Wilson coming into the leauge.

It is going to be funny as hell to watch a team pick him top 10 due to perceived need.  Penix is a far better prospect and hell even Bo Nix who I think is fools gold are better prospects.

I'll be delighted if some team takes him top 9.

Especially in our JN mock.😎

[hmhertz]

7 hours ago, green&white said:

I keep reading "if the top 3 wr are gone" go with ______ at 10.  I'm not a college football guy.  Is there that much of a difference between Odunze and BTJ to justify Odunze at 10 but BTJ is a reach at 10?  From what I see, the separation BTJ creates is a good bit better than Odunze.  Makes the contested catch, breakaway speed...given the fact of just how ridiculously priced top end receivers are in the free agent/extension market, tell me why you wouldn't go with Brian Tomas jr over Bowers/best OT.

You're a 100% right, Callahan a top line coach said tackles don't score points

[SickJetFan]

i guess this should have been a QB thread

[HighPitch]

13 hours ago, slats said:

This stuff is pure fan fiction. 0% chance Douglas takes a QB in the first round this year. 

Its more than zero

[HighPitch]

9 hours ago, Beerfish said:

JJ McCarthy is a slightly taller version of Stetson Bennett with a slightly better arm.   He played for a run first team, was always looked on as a dubious prospect and after the Michigan nat champ in which the run game and defense and a rock solid line were key he is flying up the boards.

He is a worse prospect than Zach Wilson coming into the leauge.

It is going to be funny as hell to watch a team pick him top 10 due to perceived need.  Penix is a far better prospect and hell even Bo Nix who I think is fools gold are better prospects.

I'll be delighted if some team takes him top 9.

But how do u feel about jjm?