Talk of Bowers at 10 Picking up Steam; Looking at Day 3 QB’s

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, Claymation said:

By that rationale, the Jets shouldn't have drafted Breece Hall because they had Michael Carter?

And they shouldn't draft Joe Alt because they have Carter Warren.

[CTJetsFan]

9 minutes ago, extmenace said:

Not the issue for me, the issue for me is that our qb has one of the lowest over the middle throw percentages in the league. Rodgers try’s to avoid throwing into congested areas and thats generally where you see your slot options and TE’s do most of their work. I just have concerns that we’ll draft a player that doesn’t fit into the offense.  
 

You’d just think with all the seasons under rodgers belt, he’d have been paired with a talented TE at some point that could be more than a red zone threat. It’s never really happened before…so not sure at his age he’ll change the way he plays to utilize a rookie TE. This isn’t a knock on the prospect, it’s a question of if he can be utilized properly in this offense.

Good points.

[RedBeardedSavage]

49 minutes ago, AFJF said:

And they shouldn't draft Joe Alt because they have Carter Warren.

We need to start two tackles. Both our starters currently are mid 30’s - one recovering from injury, one oft injured. AVT’s recovery/history plays into this as well. 

Breece was second rounder - even if they did try to get into the first to get him, he’d still have been far from the 10th player taken overall. 

Conklin or Ruckert going down with an injury wouldn’t be nearly as bad as losing any of the three of Tyron, Moses or AVT. 

Fautanu could step-in @ all three positions and Fuaga @ two of those. 

[Claymation]

1 minute ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

We need to start two tackles. Both our starters currently are mid 30’s - on recovering from injury, one oft injured. AVT’s recovery/history plays into this as well. 

Breece was second rounder - even if they did try to get into the first to get him, he’d still have been far from the 10th player taken overall. 

Conklin or Ruckert going down with an injury wouldn’t be nearly as bad as losing any of the three of Tyron, Moses or AVT. 

Fautanu could step-in @ all three positions and Fuaga @ two of those. 

Wouldn't a 3rd rounder be fine as an insurance policy, why does it have to be the 10th overall pick.

[AFJF]

15 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

We need to start two tackles. Both our starters currently are mid 30’s - on recovering from injury, one oft injured. AVT’s recovery/history plays into this as well. 

Breece was second rounder - even if they did try to get into the first to get him, he’d still have been far from the 10th player taken overall. 

Conklin or Ruckert going down with an injury wouldn’t be nearly as bad as losing any of the three of Tyron, Moses or AVT. 

Fautanu could step-in @ all three positions and Fuaga @ two of those. 

Carter Warren and Max Mitchell are plenty young.

[DoubleDown]

25 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Wouldn't a 3rd rounder be fine as an insurance policy, why does it have to be the 10th overall pick.

Perhaps it's because they need an OT of the future given both of their current starters are 33 year old one year rentals?

[Untouchable]

6 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Carter Warren and Max Mitchell are plenty young.

Seriously 

What’s the point of spending mid-round picks on OL if Jets fans are sh*tting themselves over the prospect of them having to start a few games?

Aren’t these guys being drafted in the hopes of being groomed to be eventual starters or at least be able to fill in for a few games without the entire offense going to hell in a hand basket?

90% of the starting OL in the league are former mid-late round picks and UDFA’s.

But if Tyron Smith misses a few starts, we need a rookie Top 10 pick waiting in the wings…

This sh*t is madness and I’ve usually been part of the crowd banging the table for OL in the past.

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 minute ago, AFJF said:

Carter Warren and Max Mitchell are plenty young.

 

18 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Wouldn't a 3rd rounder be fine as an insurance policy, why does it have to be the 10th overall pick.

Both of those players were mid round picks @ tackle and we’ve seen them forced to start before because of injuries. 

Carter Warren is an emergency start and Max Mitchell is safely in the “I never want to see touch the field again.”

If Tyron wasnt injury prone, if Moses wasn’t coming off an injury, if AVT wasn’t both, both of your arguments would be a lot more persuasive. 

[Claymation]

4 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

Perhaps it's because they need an OT of the future given both of their current starters are 33 year old one year rentals?

Why do you think Smith won't come back here next year?

Assuming Rodgers is back.

[Smashmouth]

49 minutes ago, Claymation said:

By that rationale, the Jets shouldn't have drafted Breece Hall because they had Michael Carter?

Not even close Carter sucked from year one IMO Im sure the Jets realized pretty quick Carter was not a very good RB

[Claymation]

1 minute ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

 

Both of those players were mid round picks @ tackle and we’ve seen them forced to start before because of injuries. 

Carter Warren is an emergency start and Max Mitchell is safely in the “I never want to see touch the field again.”

If Tyron wasnt injury prone, if Moses wasn’t coming off an injury, if AVT wasn’t both, both of your arguments would be a lot more persuasive. 

So you don't want the Jets to take a OL in the 3rd and beyond? How about FA, would that suffice?

[RedBeardedSavage]

5 minutes ago, Claymation said:

So you don't want the Jets to take a OL in the 3rd and beyond? How about FA, would that suffice?

No, there’s a bunch of later OT’s that I’m interested in - just not in them playing meaningful snaps this year. They’re longer term investments.

Of course, if it comes down to it, and we drafted Bowers or one of the WR’s, I’d absolutely look at the OT’s left in FA. But they’re there for a reason - age, injury or poor recent play, likely some combination. 

Our track record with the Ryan Khalil / Duane Brown type FA’s hasn’t been great. 

[Claymation]

11 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Not even close Carter sucked from year one IMO Im sure the Jets realized pretty quick Carter was not a very good RB

Conklin had a career year last year.

FYI, MC had more yards rushing his rookie than Saquan, with less attempts. 

Maybe, just maybe, the Jets realized they could upgrade the position from an average player to a dynamic one.

[varjet]

• The Jets need another T than Max Mitchell, unless for some reason MM shows up at camp looking like a different player.  MM can have another year on the PS, and he will be elevated soon enough after someone gets injured.
• The Jets need another WR than the guys they have other than Wilson, Williams and Lazard.   Someone who can start better than the other guys.  The other guys can continue to develop.  
• When the Jets draft those guys-who knows.  We do not need a top 10 backup T, but we could use a top 10 starting T next year.  We will need at least one starting T next year.  

[Claymation]

1 minute ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

No, there’s a bunch of later OT’s that I’m interested in - just not in them playing meaningful snaps this year. They’re longer term investments.

Of course, if it comes down to it, and we drafted Bowers or one of the WR’s, I’d absolutely look at the OT’s left in FA. But they’re there for a reason - age, injury or poor recent play, likely some combination. 

Our track record with the Ryan Khalil / Duane Brown type FA’s hasn’t been great. 

Both were a TC signings. Brown was ok his 1st year.

The new FA Plus wouldn't be projected starters. Just back ups.

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 minute ago, Claymation said:

Both were a TC signings. Brown was ok his 1st year.

The new FA Plus wouldn't be projected starters. Just back ups.

I think TC signings are the tier of offensive tackles left @ this point. 

I get they’d be backups, but that’s kinda my whole point - I think whomever we have @ backup tackle (especially with guard versatility), is very likely to see significant playing time this season given Tyron, Moses and AVT. 

Someone like Fautanu might start 8-10 games filling in for each of those 3 because of his versatility - and be the future OT starter on a rookie deal. 

[Smashmouth]

4 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Conklin had a career year last year.

FYI, he had more yards rushing his rookie than Saquan, with less attempts. 

Maybe, just maybe, the Jets realized they could upgrade the position from an average player to a dynamic one.

Hey I wanted Hall in a bad way and at the time I was dissapointed we didnt use the JJ selection on Breece . Obviously Hall fell to us in round 2 so that was great . Conklin had the same year the last 3 years and you could argue the 2 previous years he had 3 TD;s to last years 0 Obviously Conklin will improve the TD numbers with Rodgers at QB and a lot of things on offnse will change with Rodgers at the helm including giving us a better idea of what guys like Brownlee and Gipson have to offer

•  

• Tyler Conklin

  TE · New York Jets · USA

  • CAREER STATS
  • RECENT GAMES

  • Rushing
  • Receiving

  Receiving	REC	YDS	AVG	TD
  New York Jets
  2023	61	621	10.2	0
  2022	58	552	9.5	3
  Minnesota Vikings
  2021	61	593	9.7	3
  2020	19	194	10.2	1

[AFJF]

How will we know if Bowers is fast if he won't run the forty?  I heard a scout watched him on TV and estimated him to be running a 5.39.
 

 

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

Seriously 

What’s the point of spending mid-round picks on OL if Jets fans are sh*tting themselves over the prospect of them having to start a few games?

Aren’t these guys being drafted in the hopes of being groomed to be eventual starters or at least be able to fill in for a few games without the entire offense going to hell in a hand basket?

90% of the starting OL in the league are former mid-late round picks and UDFA’s.

But if Tyron Smith misses a few starts, we need a rookie Top 10 pick waiting in the wings…

This sh*t is madness and I’ve usually been part of the crowd banging the table for OL in the past.

Max Mitchell was unplayable last year. They drafted him in hopes that he’d add strength, but he may be tapped out, especially if he’s on blood thinners. 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Max Mitchell was unplayable last year. They drafted him in hopes that he’d add strength, but he may be tapped out, especially if he’s on blood thinners. 

I’d like to think Douglass has realized he can’t pin his job of gm of the nyj on 2 old tackles and mitchell and warren.  Mitchell shouldn’t be in the nfl he’s way too weak.  

[T0mShane]

IMO, the question shouldn’t be Bowers vs Tackle. It’s Bowers vs WR. If your rationale for Bowers is that the Jets have a short window and they need to add a weapon to maximize Rodgers, then the answer to that isn’t at TE, it’s at receiver. Better to distribute those targets to a player downfield who can give you explosives. If you’re going with win or die in 24, you may as well draft Brian Thomas Jr who can give you the deep ball threat in the short term, and a dynamic developmental player long-term. With Bowers, you’re just getting a tight end. 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

I’d like to think Douglass has realized he can’t pin his job of gm of the nyj on 2 old tackles and mitchell and warren.  Mitchell shouldn’t be in the nfl he’s way too weak.  

I can’t imagine he’ll make the final cuts this year. It’s too bad, but that’s why you draft a guy like that in R4. Expendable. 

[UntouchableCrew]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Max Mitchell was unplayable last year. They drafted him in hopes that he’d add strength, but he may be tapped out, especially if he’s on blood thinners. 

I thought he was solid as a rookie but agree he was unplayably bad post blood clots.

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

IMO, the question shouldn’t be Bowers vs Tackle. It’s Bowers vs WR. If your rationale for Bowers is that the Jets have a short window and they need to add a weapon to maximize Rodgers, then the answer to that isn’t at TE, it’s at receiver. Better to distribute those targets to a player downfield who can give you explosives. If you’re going with win or die in 24, you may as well draft Brian Thomas Jr who can give you the deep ball threat in the short term, and a dynamic developmental player long-term. With Bowers, you’re just getting a tight end. 

100% agree. BTJ may be a one trick pony as a rookie but that one trick scares the sh*t out of every defense that has to defend you. A guy that takes the top off the defense changes everything.

[Augustiniak]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

IMO, the question shouldn’t be Bowers vs Tackle. It’s Bowers vs WR. If your rationale for Bowers is that the Jets have a short window and they need to add a weapon to maximize Rodgers, then the answer to that isn’t at TE, it’s at receiver. Better to distribute those targets to a player downfield who can give you explosives. If you’re going with win or die in 24, you may as well draft Brian Thomas Jr who can give you the deep ball threat in the short term, and a dynamic developmental player long-term. With Bowers, you’re just getting a tight end. 

Challenges with drafting bowers are that you really need to have a qb and oc who are going to maximize this guy.  If you have a guy like BTJ you can throw to him 6 times and he can catch 2 but one could be a 76 yd td.  With bowers he’s a volume guy and georgia, a top 4 program while he was there, built an offense around this guy.  It’s a testament to him, but if they also had a nabers it’s different.  

On the jets, they already have 2 volume guys in breece and garrett and Conklin was decent.  If Lazard decides he wants to play with rodgers again then bowers seems destined to be complimentary guy on this offense.  

IMO i think douglas is done if he does not address OT with a real option.  I think it’s fuaga or fautanu.

[Untouchable]

13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Max Mitchell was unplayable last year. They drafted him in hopes that he’d add strength, but he may be tapped out, especially if he’s on blood thinners. 

He looked like sh*t for the most part, but then again he straight up neutralized Maxx Crosby in the Raiders game.

I’m higher on Warren.

Guy would’ve likely been a 2nd round pick if he didn’t hurt his knee late in his senior year. He then misses pretty much the entire offseason program, gets to make 4 starts towards the end of the year when he’s healthy and held his own.

The kid has legitimate starting potential, much less the ability to be a solid swing tackle.

I guess I’m just a lot higher on him than much of the fanbase seems to be.

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Challenges with drafting bowers are that you really need to have a qb and oc who are going to maximize this guy.  If you have a guy like BTJ you can throw to him 6 times and he can catch 2 but one could be a 76 yd td.  With bowers he’s a volume guy and georgia, a top 4 program while he was there, built an offense around this guy.  It’s a testament to him, but if they also had a nabers it’s different.  

On the jets, they already have 2 volume guys in breece and garrett and Conklin was decent.  If Lazard decides he wants to play with rodgers again then bowers seems destined to be complimentary guy on this offense.  

IMO i think douglas is done if he does not address OT with a real option.  I think it’s fuaga or fautanu.

From a team building perspective, he should absolutely take a tackle. But if he thinks he’s going to get fired in nine months, he should just trade up for a receiver and give Bakhtiari or Donovan Smith a decent backup contract. 

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

He looked like sh*t for the most part, but then again he straight up neutralized Maxx Crosby in the Raiders game.

I’m higher on Warren.

Guy would’ve likely been a 2nd round pick if he didn’t hurt his knee late in his senior year. He then misses pretty much the entire offseason program, gets to make 4 starts towards the end of the year when he’s healthy and held his own.

The kid has legitimate starting potential, much less the ability to be a solid swing tackle.

I guess I’m just a lot higher on him than much of the fanbase seems to be.

Yeah, I like Warren a lot. I know Brandon Thorn was pretty high on him too. 

[Bobby816]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, I like Warren a lot. I know Brandon Thorn was pretty high on him too. 

I’m a Warren fan too. I thought he was better than his grade last year. And he also missed all of camp and was forced to start. A whole year of camp and developing I think he’s just fine as a backup OT.

 

Cant have 1st rounders or big money FAs everywhere. You have to develop guys.

[Augustiniak]

17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

From a team building perspective, he should absolutely take a tackle. But if he thinks he’s going to get fired in nine months, he should just trade up for a receiver and give Bakhtiari or Donovan Smith a decent backup contract. 

I disagree.  If he thinks he’s gonna get fired he should take the tackle and then trade into round 2 for a good wr and have the best of both worlds.  That’s the best approach. 

[Adoni Beast]

20 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, I like Warren a lot. I know Brandon Thorn was pretty high on him too. 

Without the injury in college would have probably been a second round pick. I thought given the circumstances of having the worst QB, the worst OL, and being a rookie without a full pro offseason and strength training....he held up well. I think there's hope for Carter Warren as a good depth piece and potential RT starter.

[Adoni Beast]

25 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

But if he thinks he’s going to get fired in nine months, he should just trade up for a receiver and give Bakhtiari or Donovan Smith a decent backup contract. 

Trading up for Nabers or MJH is the best possible outcome to our draft. Doubtful it happens unfortunately and I also doubt Odunze will be there at 10 so I think we will be facing the Bowers or available OT choice. I at least hope that scenario is after a trade down at least.

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Trading up for Nabers or MJH is the best possible outcome to our draft. Doubtful it happens unfortunately and I also doubt Odunze will be there at 10 so I think we will be facing the Bowers or available OT choice. I at least hope that scenario is after a trade down at least.

I think trading back a few spots and taking a tackle, and then trading up from the 3rd round to get Roman wilson or franklin is a best case outcome.  

[SickJetFan]

8 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Trading up for Nabers or MJH is the best possible outcome to our draft. Doubtful it happens unfortunately and I also doubt Odunze will be there at 10 so I think we will be facing the Bowers or available OT choice. I at least hope that scenario is after a trade down at least.

dis where I'm at.  Should the trade up happen?  100% YES!  Will the trade up happen? .001% ur uh fudge take the FB what can go wrong

[Adoni Beast]

15 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

I think trading back a few spots and taking a tackle, and then trading up from the 3rd round to get Roman wilson or franklin is a best case outcome.  

I thought the same for awhile and I've landed on looking to acquire a game wrecker that can turn the field at any given moment.

But your scenario is second best and I'd be very happy with that outcome, especially it meant getting Latham or Fautanu in the 1st as the OT.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Adoni Beast said:

I thought the same for awhile and I've landed on looking to acquire a game wrecker that can turn the field at any given moment.

But your scenario is second best and I'd be very happy with that outcome, especially it meant getting Latham or Fautanu in the 1st as the OT.

Watch the jets trade back and take the tackle and then use 2 3rds on defense.