Hassan Reddick Holding Out, Requests Trade

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The only thing that makes any sense from the Reddick camp at this point is that he's hoping to gain leverage  during the preseason due to injury or other. Micheal Clemons penciled in as a starter may just be "other".

Reddick’s camp might be thinking that some team like the Lions will decide they could use a mercenary pass rusher for a Super Bowl run and who won’t be uptight about throwing him an extra $5-$6 mil. 

[Sperm Edwards]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Just to be clear here—Reddick was willing to play on his existing contract, but the Eagles instead opted to 1. Eat $22 mil in dead cap AND 2. Give Bryce Huff $50 mil to replace him? How does that make any sense?

The dead cap was dead cap whether they kept him or not. It's money they had already paid to him - every last dollar of it - so that part is neither here nor there.

I thought it'd get resolved by guaranteeing his current amount plus maybe bumping his base amount to upwards of $20MM (guaranteed or attainable via a very reachable incentive like 10 sacks; an amount he should be exceeding if he was to get near the bump he was seeking). If he'd shown up, maybe that would've gotten done and maybe it wouldn't, but that was my (incorrect) prediction where this was headed.

I just didn't think a guy would cost himself millions by staging a holdout - rather than a hold-in where talks would've been much easier - with a new team that was neither desperate to have him here nor was one that invested a massive amount in buying his contract.

I'd like him here - he's a terrific player - but the team (or even just the defense alone) is hardly doomed without him. 

[jgb]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Just to be clear here—Reddick was willing to play on his existing contract, but the Eagles instead opted to 1. Eat $22 mil in dead cap AND 2. Give Bryce Huff $50 mil to replace him? How does that make any sense?

This debate reminds me of the scene from "Braveheart" when the Scottish Lords all meet to decide which of them will be England's new puppet king of the North.

One waves around a fistful of ancient-looking parchments that supposedly support his claim, screaming, "I demand recognition of these documents!"

Then his rival retorts, "Those documents were lies when you wrote them!"

[Darnold's Forehead]

10 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'd like him here - he's a terrific player - but the team (or even just the defense alone) is hardly doomed without him.

 

[slimjasi]

20 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Reddick’s camp might be thinking that some team like the Lions will decide they could use a mercenary pass rusher for a Super Bowl run and who won’t be uptight about throwing him an extra $5-$6 mil. 

Philly made Reddick available in the spring and couldn’t get more than the equivalent of a 5th this year for him. 
 

sounds like he’s gonna have to either:

a) come down in price for at least one year

OR

b) sit out the year (which makes no sense for him) 

[ARodJetsFan]

4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

sounds like he’s gonna have to either:

a) come down in price for at least one year

OR

b) sit out the year (which makes no sense for him) 

Question for you.

What has he done this off-season, that's made sense?

[T0mShane]

13 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Philly made Reddick available in the spring and couldn’t get more than the equivalent of a 5th this year for him. 
 

sounds like he’s gonna have to either:

a) come down in price for at least one year

OR

b) sit out the year (which makes no sense for him) 

Things change at this point in the preseason. Lions are sitting on $42 mil in cap space and have nobody to rush the passer other than Aidan Hutchinson. That team is poised to make a run. Colts, Browns, Packers, Raiders, etc are all 20+ mil under the cap and could all make it work if they chose to

[BurnleyJet]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Things change at this point in the preseason. Lions are sitting on $42 mil in cap space and have nobody to rush the passer other than Aidan Hutchinson. That team is poised to make a run. Colts, Browns, Packers, Raiders, etc are all 20+ mil under the cap and could all make it work if they chose to

What do they offer us a 3rd?

[slimjasi]

17 minutes ago, ARodJetsFan said:

Question for you.

What has he done this off-season, that's made sense?

maybe he just didn’t feel like going to camp

Who knows 

 

[slimjasi]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Things change at this point in the preseason. Lions are sitting on $42 mil in cap space and have nobody to rush the passer other than Aidan Hutchinson. That team is poised to make a run. Colts, Browns, Packers, Raiders, etc are all 20+ mil under the cap and could all make it work if they chose to

I guess we’ll find out but I don’t see a big market for him until the trade deadline or maybe a key injury 

he wants a lot of money - it’s hard to give a non-home grown defensive player what he supposedly wants. Not that some team won’t eventually do it, but it’s not a small ask  

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Reddick’s camp might be thinking that some team like the Lions will decide they could use a mercenary pass rusher for a Super Bowl run and who won’t be uptight about throwing him an extra $5-$6 mil. 

I don’t for a minute think this is about an extra $5-$6M.  He wants the security of a new multi year deal IMO.  He’s looking at his last payday and he’s not all that eager to risk it playing out his old, agreed upon deal.

[ARodJetsFan]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

maybe he just didn’t feel like going to camp

Who knows 

 

While that's entirely possible @slimjasi I don't know if that's the best way to make a first impression, on your new team.

[Claymation]

37 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Things change at this point in the preseason. Lions are sitting on $42 mil in cap space and have nobody to rush the passer other than Aidan Hutchinson. That team is poised to make a run. Colts, Browns, Packers, Raiders, etc are all 20+ mil under the cap and could all make it work if they chose to

Are they willing to give up a second that can escalate into a first if he plays 40% of snaps?

[jgb]

1 hour ago, BurnleyJet said:

What do they offer us a 3rd?

And if the Lions do so, I’d charity bet you any amount you are comfortable with that they make agreeing to an extension a condition of the trade.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, ARodJetsFan said:

While that's entirely possible @slimjasi I don't know if that's the best way to make a first impression, on your new team.

Yeah look it’s business. Players nearly exclusively support their brothers in contract disputes. Fans care about the emotional, feel good stuff. JD will approach it from a purely business point of view.

[ARodJetsFan]

37 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yeah look it’s business. Players nearly exclusively support their brothers in contract disputes. Fans care about the emotional, feel good stuff. JD will approach it from a purely business point of view.

Yes sir, completely agree.

[Alka]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Things change at this point in the preseason. Lions are sitting on $42 mil in cap space and have nobody to rush the passer other than Aidan Hutchinson. That team is poised to make a run. Colts, Browns, Packers, Raiders, etc are all 20+ mil under the cap and could all make it work if they chose to

Maybe that is what Reddick's camp is waiting for.  Someone to make the Jets an offer that they will find palatable.  And if nothing happens, then Reddick will need to make a decision.  Come in, or stay home.  

[Fantasy Island]

Hand that entitled f@#$ a broom and mop and tell him to get to work or kick rocks.

[varjet]

I would think the Jets deal with the Eagles still applies if the Jets trade Reddick. 

With Saleh’s rotational system, they knew they would not be required to give up a second round pick for him.  We all talk about the the third, but it is a second if he exceeds playing time. 

So if the Jets trade him, the team that trades for him needs to give the Jets a pick that also elevates with playing time.  

[C Mart]

24 minutes ago, varjet said:

I would think the Jets deal with the Eagles still applies if the Jets trade Reddick. 

With Saleh’s rotational system, they knew they would not be required to give up a second round pick for him.  We all talk about the the third, but it is a second if he exceeds playing time. 

So if the Jets trade him, the team that trades for him needs to give the Jets a pick that also elevates with playing time.  

Isn’t it playing time + 10 or more sacks to move it to a 2nd? 

IIRC based on last yr Jets playing time only Q exceeded that %. 

[Rich Thornburgh]

8 hours ago, kmnj said:

Joe Douglass said the jets would not give up on Becton - what did he do ? He gave up on Becton - Gms lie all the time so don’t sit on your high horse and blame the player when he does it 

This.

it’s clear now that JD viewed Reddick as a one year rental.  Reddick would come here and get 7-10 sacks and leave and hopefully by then Johnson and McDonald developed 

 

 

[Biggs]

18 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I don’t for a minute think this is about an extra $5-$6M.  He wants the security of a new multi year deal IMO.  He’s looking at his last payday and he’s not all that eager to risk it playing out his old, agreed upon deal.

Which is perfectly withing his rights.  He actually played for the guaranteed money.   He doesn't have a guaranteed one year deal.  He is abiding by the agreed on Union/management deal.  He's sitting out and being fined.   Management isn't lossing a dime since his deal isn't guaranteed and he's not getting paid.    There is no bad guy in this deal.  The Jets have no expectationg that he has to play and he has no expectation of getting paid for services not rendered.

The idea that he lied or is not abidding by the contract is absurd.   JD by making the argument that he is a liar is all about molifying Jets fans and has nothing to do with sanctity of a contract.  It's frankly insulting our intelligence at this point.   Even if he told JD he would play on an unguaranteed deal and changed his mind, that's his right.  Doesn't make him a liar or a bad guy.  He's abiding by the deal under the rules of NFL contracts.

Reddick will either cave or he won't.  He is under no obligation to play football for the NY Jets.   The same would be true of the Eagles if they hadn't traded him.  JD made the trade without have a signed guaranteed contract for Reddick to play this year.   He knew the risk and did it.  Now he has to live with it.   JD has a lot of levearage, he doesn't have any moral authority, he set this up to play out this way.

[Dcat]

18 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Things change at this point in the preseason. Lions are sitting on $42 mil in cap space and have nobody to rush the passer other than Aidan Hutchinson. That team is poised to make a run. Colts, Browns, Packers, Raiders, etc are all 20+ mil under the cap and could all make it work if they chose to

 

18 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

What do they offer us a 3rd?

Reddick for Jameson Williams.

[Jet Nut]

29 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Which is perfectly withing his rights.  He actually played for the guaranteed money.   He doesn't have a guaranteed one year deal.  He is abiding by the agreed on Union/management deal.  He's sitting out and being fined.   Management isn't lossing a dime since his deal isn't guaranteed and he's not getting paid.    There is no bad guy in this deal.  The Jets have no expectationg that he has to play and he has no expectation of getting paid for services not rendered.

The idea that he lied or is not abidding by the contract is absurd.   JD by making the argument that he is a liar is all about molifying Jets fans and has nothing to do with sanctity of a contract.  It's frankly insulting our intelligence at this point.   Even if he told JD he would play on an unguaranteed deal and changed his mind, that's his right.  Doesn't make him a liar or a bad guy.  He's abiding by the deal under the rules of NFL contracts.

Reddick will either cave or he won't.  He is under no obligation to play football for the NY Jets.   The same would be true of the Eagles if they hadn't traded him.  JD made the trade without have a signed guaranteed contract for Reddick to play this year.   He knew the risk and did it.  Now he has to live with it.   JD has a lot of levearage, he doesn't have any moral authority, he set this up to play out this way.

We have completely different views on what makes up a contract and what your signature on a document with agreed parameters means.  

[Biggs]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

We have completely different views on what makes up a contract and what your signature on a document with agreed parameters means.  

My view is based on NFL contracts not some fiction that you seem to want to make the argument on.

[Jet Nut]

14 minutes ago, Biggs said:

My view is based on NFL contracts not some fiction that you seem to want to make the argument on.

He’s under contract.  He’s been paid.  He took his bonus and that’s the parameters of the deal. 
That’s it.  Any of this other bs you guys want to add as if they’re included in an agreement is the piece of fiction that you can’t accept.  If people want to throw in exceptions to what constitutes a contract in their opinions that’s what is called a discussion.  Kind of how forums work
if ownership didn’t honor the agreed upon parameters of their agreements the player and the union would open a suit and win.  No one has failed to honor his NFL contract while but he isn’t honoring the agreement.  
Do players think when others are paid more 3 years into their contracts that they should get to hold out, not honor their commitments and get a redo?  Absolutely they do.  Does that somehow magically mean they’re honoring the document they signed?  No.  

[Biggs]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

He’s under contract.  He’s been paid.  He took his bonus and that’s the parameters of the deal. 
That’s it.  Any of this other bs you guys want to add as if they’re included in an agreement is the piece of fiction that you can’t accept.  Of people would stop giving me exceptions to what constitutes a contract in their opinions.  
if ownership didn’t honor the agreed upon parameters of their agreements the player and the union would open a suit and win.  No one has failed to honor his NFL contract while but he isn’t honoring the agreement.  
Do players think when others are paid more 3 years into their contracts that they should get to hold out, not honor their commitments and get a redo?  Absolutely they do.  Does that somehow magically mean they’re honoring the document they signed?  No.  

 

You seem to be arguing that by not playing he should be returning the guaranteed portion of his salary that was applied to this year.   Doesn't exist.   He actually lived up to the contract and continues to do so.  He's not playing or getting paid.  He doesn't have to pay back any guaranteed money that he was paid for this year because it doesn't exist. 

He was guaranteed 30 million and it was pro-rated in his first two years.  He played for 1 million in salary those two year and the guarantted money was spread over those two years.  

[Jet Nut]

Just now, Biggs said:

He already played for his bonus money over the first two years of his contract.  You seem to be missing that part.  The contract he signed with the Eagles payed him a salary of roughly 1 million in year 1 and 2 and spread his guaranteed money of 30 million over those two years. 

The bonuses are given for accepting the agreement.  We know this.  It’s not a one year bonus.  The Eagles paid it as they were obliged to by their agreement.  No one’s debating this.  
He can sit out, lose his pay and accept his fines.  That’s up to him.  But he’s violating a contract he agreed and signed off on by doing this.  
It’s pretty simple
 

[Biggs]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

The bonuses are given for accepting the agreement.  We know this.  It’s not a one year bonus.  The Eagles paid it as they were obliged to by their agreement.  No one’s debating this.  
He can sit out, lose his pay and accept his fines.  That’s up to him.  But he’s violating a contract he agreed and signed off on by doing this.  
It’s pretty simple
 

This is not correct.  The bonus was structured into the first two years for cap reasons.  The contract was written to be redone before this season or for them to trade or cut him.   

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

 

You seem to be arguing that by not playing he should be returning the guaranteed portion of his salary that was applied to this year.   Doesn't exist.   He actually lived up to the contract and continues to do so.  He's not playing or getting paid.  He doesn't have to pay back any guaranteed money that he was paid for this year because it doesn't exist. 

He was guaranteed 30 million and it was pro-rated in his first two years.  He played for 1 million in salary those two year and the guarantted money was spread over those two years.  

Nowhere did I bring up money in salary or bonus money.  But that’s the point he gets his bonus money up front and his deal is structured to pay the majority of the money up front.  The deal agreed on by both parties for his contract.  Now that most of the deal paid out early he, graciously I guess, wants to rip it up and get an increase.  If a team agrees they can come together on a new deal.  If

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

This is not correct.  The bonus was structured into the first two years for cap reasons.  The contract was written to be redone before this season or for them to trade or cut him.   

Who cares, no one is saying the bonus money is at issue.  They agreed on $30M, he was paid $30M.  But that was for a contract with terms. 
I doubt there was a provision to redo the deal, just like I doubt he would have agreed to redo his deal to a lower value if he performed below the level he played when he signed his deal.  And there was a provision to trade him?  Like they did?  Bet there wasn’t a provision that says the team that trades for him has to write him a new deal at some unknown new cost with added guarantees.  

You’re right though, this is overdone now.  I’m done

[Jet_Engine1]

2 hours ago, Biggs said:

Which is perfectly withing his rights.  He actually played for the guaranteed money.   He doesn't have a guaranteed one year deal.  He is abiding by the agreed on Union/management deal.  He's sitting out and being fined.   Management isn't lossing a dime since his deal isn't guaranteed and he's not getting paid.    There is no bad guy in this deal.  The Jets have no expectationg that he has to play and he has no expectation of getting paid for services not rendered.

The idea that he lied or is not abidding by the contract is absurd.   JD by making the argument that he is a liar is all about molifying Jets fans and has nothing to do with sanctity of a contract.  It's frankly insulting our intelligence at this point.   Even if he told JD he would play on an unguaranteed deal and changed his mind, that's his right.  Doesn't make him a liar or a bad guy.  He's abiding by the deal under the rules of NFL contracts.

Reddick will either cave or he won't.  He is under no obligation to play football for the NY Jets.   The same would be true of the Eagles if they hadn't traded him.  JD made the trade without have a signed guaranteed contract for Reddick to play this year.   He knew the risk and did it.  Now he has to live with it.   JD has a lot of levearage, he doesn't have any moral authority, he set this up to play out this way.

Where has JD said he lied? Did I miss that press conference? All the Jets as an org have stated is that he has a current contract he is expected to play under and they are focused on the players that are currently in camp.

 

You are inventing a reality in your mind that doesn't exist.

 

Wanting g a new contract is fine. Talking to the new boss is a better way to do it than running off to Japan and hiding out. 

 

There are much better ways to handle this than what the guy has chosen to do. The Jets don't know him, he has never reported to a single minicamp, OTA or practice,  nobody has any idea what kind of condition/shape he is in, or if he's a headcase or a potential Trumaine Johnson. 

 

He got traded and wants a new contract. Maybe show your new team what they traded for?

[Warfish]

So....any indications as yet that this will get sorted before week 1 and games that count?

[jgb]

2 hours ago, Biggs said:

Which is perfectly withing his rights.  He actually played for the guaranteed money.   He doesn't have a guaranteed one year deal.  He is abiding by the agreed on Union/management deal.  He's sitting out and being fined.   Management isn't lossing a dime since his deal isn't guaranteed and he's not getting paid.    There is no bad guy in this deal.  The Jets have no expectationg that he has to play and he has no expectation of getting paid for services not rendered.

The idea that he lied or is not abidding by the contract is absurd.   JD by making the argument that he is a liar is all about molifying Jets fans and has nothing to do with sanctity of a contract.  It's frankly insulting our intelligence at this point.   Even if he told JD he would play on an unguaranteed deal and changed his mind, that's his right.  Doesn't make him a liar or a bad guy.  He's abiding by the deal under the rules of NFL contracts.

Reddick will either cave or he won't.  He is under no obligation to play football for the NY Jets.   The same would be true of the Eagles if they hadn't traded him.  JD made the trade without have a signed guaranteed contract for Reddick to play this year.   He knew the risk and did it.  Now he has to live with it.   JD has a lot of levearage, he doesn't have any moral authority, he set this up to play out this way.

Well said but it’s no use. They are stuck on this as some sort of ethical issue because Haasan “broke a contract.” First of all, breaking a contract isn’t an ethical issue but let’s put that aside.

No contract was even broken here. All contracts respect the fundamental right to withhold services. As they must, because to do otherwise would be illegal. Illegal terms in contracts are, you guessed it, also illegal. So their argument is that Hassan broke a contract by violating an imagined term that appears no where in the contract and would be unconstitutional even if it did.

I mean, what’s the use of debating people with such a fundamental misunderstanding of how contracts work?

[Biggs]

11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Who cares, no one is saying the bonus money is at issue.  They agreed on $30M, he was paid $30M.  But that was for a contract with terms. 
I doubt there was a provision to redo the deal, just like I doubt he would have agreed to redo his deal to a lower value if he performed below the level he played when he signed his deal.  And there was a provision to trade him?  Like they did?  Bet there wasn’t a provision that says the team that trades for him has to write him a new deal at some unknown new cost with added guarantees.  

You’re right though, this is overdone now.  I’m done

Bet there is nothing that says if he's traded he has to play.

NFL contracts are designed to be redone.  Both sides know this.  The Jets do it all the time.  Players restructure all the time for the benifit of the teams cap.  This contract was designed to be restructured this year.  That's why it has no guaranteed money left on it.  You can play dumb but I know you aren't.  

You can doubt he would redo for less money but in fact NFL players end up playing for less money all the time when they can't perform up to their contracts.   Teams actually force them to do it.