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Kellen Clemens 2006 Prospect Profile

mangenious420

By mangenious420
in NY Jets Forum

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The Troll

The Troll

Posted
Posted
Aside from Matt Leinart, Clemens might be the only other quarterback who is more ready mentally to step into the NFL and contribute early in his career.

How do you get "Looks like those who want Chad out might be wrong" out of that?

It also says that Clemens is adept at making plays against heavy pressure, which is something Chad never, ever does.

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

Posted
Posted

If there was a case to be made for keeping this kid on the bench, this draft profile is not it.

Only 2 negatives I read in here really are

(1) obviously, his height. And that was with them calling him 6'2 which he is not. However, Chad’s height advantage was so valuable he had like 3 batted passes in the WC game.

(2) now & then tries to do too much & throws a careless pick or fumbles when scrambling.

To that I would reply:

(1) he has an overhand throwing motion, so the release point would be the same as a 6'4 QB with a 3/4 release (like many lefty QB's have)

(2) Chad doesn't throw careless interceptions when he's trying to do too much? And any mobility from a Jets QB would be welcome. Teaching someone to protect the ball better is a hell of a lot easier than trying to teach someone to zip the ball in on a rope.

(3) He may still stink. If he's good we'll know about it. One thing I have confidence in with Mangini is he won't keep a potential star on the bench because he likes the starter better. If Chad was starting every game last year that means Chad was a better QB than both Clemens & Ramsey last year.

He also brings to the table:

(1) clearly has far, far better arm-strength. With his ability to throw a deep out without Chad's punt-like hang-time, the Jets immediately become more difficult to defend, as their plays can be more creative - particularly with such talented/sure-handed wideouts. When I read phrases like "can get rid of the ball with zip in a flash" it really serves up a reminder of what Chad does NOT have.

(2) physical strength. I can't recall the last time a defender had Chad dead-to-rights, started to wrap him up, and Chad got out of it to make a play.

(3) doesn’t get happy feet when the pocket collapses & can make a big play with defenders about to eat him alive.

Where he’s going to have a tough time beating out Chad:

(1) obvious – NFL game experience. Chad has plenty, including playoffs. KC has none, unless you count the embarrassment he displayed in a handful of plays this year.

(2) selling the play-action. It is HIGHLY unlikely he (or anyone) would be able to put Chad to shame in this category. It’s something that many Chadophiles list as an attribute, but I think few truly realize how phenomenal he is in this area. There’s like him, Peyton Manning, and then the rest of planet earth. If he sells it enough to make it work, that will be adequate enough. One could definitely argue that Chad buys his RB’s a hair more time, but then everyone had been creeping up to begin with against him, so it’s not as effective as it would be if he had even average arm-strength.

(3) Chad's a pretty popular guy with the team. KC's REALLY going to have to show him up in camp to allow Mangini to bench Chad and retain the team's confidence.

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docdhc

docdhc

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One advantage that people tout about Chad is his intelligence. He is very bright and runs the no huddle very well. I find it interesting that his Wonderlic score was only 25 yet Clemens had a very high score of 35, even higher than Brady's 33. I don't know how much it means because Ramsey had a 32 and Quincy Carter a 30 but I find it worth noting. All Qb's scores are at http://www.unc.edu/~mirabile/Wonderlic.htm.

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Gainzo

Gainzo

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Brady was in his second year I think when he took over for Bledsoe. I hope KC is ready but Chad for another year if healthy isn't a bad thing. I think the Super Bowl QB of the JETs is more likely to be Clemens though.

He was in his 2nd year but had never taken a snap before Drew got jacked up by Mo Lewis.

Then again he had earned the trust of the coaching staff during preseason as he was promoted to the #2 spot over a vet named Duane Huard.

Ever heard of that guy?

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docdhc

docdhc

Posted
Posted
He was in his 2nd year but had never taken a snap before Drew got jacked up by Mo Lewis.

Then again he had earned the trust of the coaching staff during preseason as he was promoted to the #2 spot over a vet named Duane Huard.

Ever heard of that guy?

Duane or Damon?

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JetCane

JetCane

Posted
Posted

I assume he meant damon. :)

So, who wrote that piece, KC's wife or his Dad? ;)

It also says that Clemens is adept at making plays against heavy pressure, which is something Chad never, ever does.

The only decent defense he faced in his senior year was USC and he didnt do well. Playing "heavy pressure" defense in the Pac is an oxymoron.

We'll see how it goes...

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The Troll

The Troll

Posted
Posted
One advantage that people tout about Chad is his intelligence. He is very bright and runs the no huddle very well. I find it interesting that his Wonderlic score was only 25 yet Clemens had a very high score of 35, even higher than Brady's 33. I don't know how much it means because Ramsey had a 32 and Quincy Carter a 30 but I find it worth noting. All Qb's scores are at http://www.unc.edu/~mirabile/Wonderlic.htm.

I took a Wonderlinc about six months ago when I was applying for a job. Got a 29.

Therefore, I am smarter than Chad Pennington. HAHA!

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serphnx

serphnx

Posted
Posted

Chad's arm strength is fine when he steps into passes too. The problem is you usually can't step in against good defenses, either because of the pass rush or because the windows are so small. If Clemens has the same problem, then I do not see how we are upgrading in any way. I guess mobility, but that alone doesn't seem like a justification.

If KC has any stock, I say we trade the guy and try to move up this draft, and get someone like JeMarcus Russell, I KNOW there are no physical problems with that guy.

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Barton

Barton

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Posted
Chad's arm strength is fine when he steps into passes too. The problem is you usually can't step in against good defenses, either because of the pass rush or because the windows are so small. If Clemens has the same problem, then I do not see how we are upgrading in any way. I guess mobility, but that alone doesn't seem like a justification.

If KC has any stock, I say we trade the guy and try to move up this draft, and get someone like JeMarcus Russell, I KNOW there are no physical problems with that guy.

Clemens on 1 foot can throw a 20 yard out with more zip than Chad Pennington. Saying we should trade the guy, esp for a QB like Russell who is not a finished product, is kinda silly. Clemens has yet to even play, and judging by these scouting reports, the opinions of alot of scouts and coaches, he seems to have it all.

I cant wait to see this guy start for us and become a force.

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dbatesman

dbatesman

Posted
Posted
Chad's arm strength is fine when he steps into passes too. The problem is you usually can't step in against good defenses, either because of the pass rush or because the windows are so small. If Clemens has the same problem, then I do not see how we are upgrading in any way. I guess mobility, but that alone doesn't seem like a justification.

There's no question about the athletic disparity--physically, Clemens is an undeniable upgrade over Chad. His arm strength and mobility are worlds above Chad's, but as far as I'm concerned, the most critical thing is his release--which I find much more important than arm strength. Drew Brees and Jeff Garcia, for example, are known to possess mediocre arms, but they get the ball out so quick that it's difficult to bat it down or intercept it. Clemens has a lightning-quick release, whereas Chad needs a Leftwich-like windup to deliver a Huard-strength pass. That alone can make a huge difference.

So the questions surrounding Clemens aren't physical; they're mental. We run a complex offense that requires the quarterback to possess impeccable timing, a mastery of a whole slew of motion and misdirection plays, and the ability to diagnose defenses at the line--things Chad does better than anyone not named Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. If and when Clemens masters the offense and grows accustomed to the speed of the professional game, I have no doubt he'll be the starter. When that will be is anyone's guess.

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ECURB

ECURB

Posted
Posted
Alright well I was out last night so I haven't been on to check the thread. Obviously I made a typing error and meant to say those who want chad out might not be wrong. I just had to clear that up.

Just edit it... and problem solved....

I think most either knew you meant that or could have figured it out... that link made even me wonder...

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

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Posted
There's no question about the athletic disparity--physically, Clemens is an undeniable upgrade over Chad. His arm strength and mobility are worlds above Chad's, but as far as I'm concerned, the most critical thing is his release--which I find much more important than arm strength. Drew Brees and Jeff Garcia, for example, are known to possess mediocre arms, but they get the ball out so quick that it's difficult to bat it down or intercept it. Clemens has a lightning-quick release, whereas Chad needs a Leftwich-like windup to deliver a Huard-strength pass. That alone can make a huge difference.

So the questions surrounding Clemens aren't physical; they're mental. We run a complex offense that requires the quarterback to possess impeccable timing, a mastery of a whole slew of motion and misdirection plays, and the ability to diagnose defenses at the line--things Chad does better than anyone not named Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. If and when Clemens masters the offense and grows accustomed to the speed of the professional game, I have no doubt he'll be the starter. When that will be is anyone's guess.

Chad's timing is not better than anyone other than Peyton/Brady. His timing is decent. He overthrows a lot of his passes over 5 yards. And for a guy whose receivers get SO open with such frequency (and that's WITH a shortened field no matter where the LOS is), their ypr should be much higher. As it is, NEITHER of them sniff at the top-50 in the league. I seriously doubt that it's the fault of BOTH of them. What it is, is Chad's timing.

What he does better than anyone else that I can tell, is play-action fakes.

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GimmeShelter

GimmeShelter

Posted
Posted
Alright well I was out last night so I haven't been on to check the thread. Obviously I made a typing error and meant to say those who want chad out might not be wrong. I just had to clear that up.

Lesson #1 for our panel of QB experts:

Never let a night out of partying get in the way of a good Chad bashing.

Chad should be a better QB in 07 with a off season dedicated to mechanics etc rather than rehab for the first time in two years. Clemens challenge is to improve upon his Buffalo performance.

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#27TheDominator

#27TheDominator

Posted
Posted

That's the same piece that had everybody in love with him on draft night. I'm not in love with what I've seen so far, but I'm willing to have him change my mind. What bothers me about that report is that it says that after than Leinart he's next "most ready" to take over an NFL offense, yet he looked lost to me. Could be our O is so complex or just wishful thinking by GM Jr. There is no reason he shouldn't be much better this year, I'm not sure he'll be enough better.

I agree with Sperm about the play action. I actually think he's better at it than Manning. Manning's fake's seem very exaggerated, but he also seems to do it when he actually hands off the ball, so I guess it's still ultra effective. I think Chad is also very good at going through the reads. A guy like Eli will just look at one or two receivers and then heave it up. Chad seems to genuinely go through the progression which may be why he often finds the open man. It also may be why he deteriorates so much under pressure.

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pjam76

pjam76

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Posted

Wasn't even the backup QB in the playoff game... I hope the kid turns out to be a great one, but at this point, he hasn't looked impressive in his performances. He hasn't impressed the coaches enough to where he is the backup QB in the playoffs.... Ramsey came in for one play, not Clemmons. That might not say much, but it obviously tells you the guy either hasn't shown much in practice during the year or he hasn't shown the ability to pick up the offense well enough. Either way, it's not a good thing.

At this point, Chad P should be the starter, barring injury, to start next year. Kellen Clemmons had an avg college career for a team that was avg. He got hurt and then got all overhyped during the combine and pre-draft workouts. At this point, he's an unknown factor. There is nobody else out there that is worth looking at. Bledsoe stinks. Schaub isn't that great. Huard isn't great. Leftwich is injured more than Pennington. So at this point, Chad P is the only real option, unless Clemmons comes out in preseason and shows he's the next Favre or Brady. Until then, the Jets are stuck with Chad P.

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lancemehl

lancemehl

Posted
Posted

wow according to that report he's Marino,Elway and Montana rolled into one.It should be a no-brainer in TC who should start.Chad might as well not even show up.

This was Chad's "profile":

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/2000/nfldraft/players/19326.html

someone explain how Chad went #18 and Clemens dropped to the second round based on these "profiles"

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pjam76

pjam76

Posted
Posted

They are nothing more than profiles..

Many HOF players probably wouldn't have ever been drafted. Tom Brady was a 7th round pick. Marquis COlston was a 7th round pick.

Chad P probably wasn't deserving of a first round pick, but the Jets thought he was.

Clemmons hasn't looked that impressive to be an NFL starter. At least not this year.

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serphnx

serphnx

Posted
Posted
wow according to that report he's Marino,Elway and Montana rolled into one.It should be a no-brainer in TC who should start.Chad might as well not even show up.

This was Chad's "profile":

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/2000/nfldraft/players/19326.html

someone explain how Chad went #18 and Clemens dropped to the second round based on these "profiles"

Are they not allowed to write anything negative? That profile is almost completely wrong. About the only thing right is that he does scan alternate targets (I dunno why everyone loves Carr, I don't think he can go through reads at all) and he doesn't have a big gun.

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AFJF

AFJF

Posted
Posted
wow according to that report he's Marino,Elway and Montana rolled into one.It should be a no-brainer in TC who should start.Chad might as well not even show up.

This was Chad's "profile":

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/2000/nfldraft/players/19326.html

someone explain how Chad went #18 and Clemens dropped to the second round based on these "profiles"

Chad was the top QB in a weak draft at the position and Clemens came out with three "franchise" QBs on the board. If Leinart, Cutler, and VY hadn't come out this year then Clemens would have gone much sooner.

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