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Is Leon Washed-upington?

Kleckineau

By Kleckineau
in NY Jets Forum

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DireJet38

DireJet38

Posted
Posted

How am I sour? By supporting the team getting rid of a player who they clearly didn't want to keep.

Happens all the time.

Leon gave his all to the Jets, suffering a gruesome injury in the process.

I don't see the reason to bad-mouth him.

Did he bleed in your cornflakes on the way out?

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ZachEY

ZachEY

Posted
Posted

Leon gave his all to the Jets, suffering a gruesome injury in the process.

I don't see the reason to bad-mouth him.

Did he bleed in your cornflakes on the way out?

I still fail to see one thing I said that 'bad-mouthed' him.

The worst thing I said is that he wont be remembered. 10 years from now, no one but Leon Washington fans are going to talk about a change of pace RB who never amassed more than 6 TDs on the ground, nor a kick returner. READ: Dante Hall (who Leon was not).

In reality, it's the people who love Leon who get all uptight when confronted with the reality of the situation.

If bad-mouthing him is saying the Jets didn't want him, well, thus far they've managed to resign Revis, Mangold, and D'Brick. They drafted Leon's replacement (regardless of how it played out, the intent was for McKnight to take over that role) and then traded him for a 5th rounder. It's obvious the Jets (the TEAM I root for) wasn't that interested in keeping Leon around.

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Matt39

Matt39

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I still fail to see one thing I said that 'bad-mouthed' him.

The worst thing I said is that he wont be remembered. 10 years from now, no one but Leon Washington fans are going to talk about a change of pace RB who never amassed more than 6 TDs on the ground, nor a kick returner. READ: Dante Hall (who Leon was not).

In reality, it's the people who love Leon who get all uptight when confronted with the reality of the situation.

If bad-mouthing him is saying the Jets didn't want him, well, thus far they've managed to resign Revis, Mangold, and D'Brick. They drafted Leon's replacement (regardless of how it played out, the intent was for McKnight to take over that role) and then traded him for a 5th rounder. It's obvious the Jets (the TEAM I root for) wasn't that interested in keeping Leon around.

Leon falls victim of not playing in the Tecmo Super Bowl era. Mel Gray, ftw.

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slats

slats

Posted
Posted

Oh, and to be clear: Yes, Team Leon refuted the $10 mil guaranteed offer story but they only did so close to a year after it was reported.

In other words, the $10 mil guaranteed offer was reported by the Daily News and elsewhere in mid 2009 and Team Leon didn't say anything about it. Leon gets hurt in October and don't say anything about it. It is only in March 2010 after Leon is tendered at a 2nd rounder and everything has blown up in their collective faces, does Team Leon refute the story.

That is classic save-face manuevring right there IMO. How do you let a false story stay around for nearly a year about contract offer? Alvin Keels wanted that $10 mil story out there because he wanted more than that.

You're free to believe whatever you want.

No way in hell do I believe that the same team that gave a $1.6M signing bonus and $0 in guarantees at signing to Brick gave a $10M genuine guarantee to a backup RB the year before. Just no way.

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SMC

SMC

Posted
Posted

You're free to believe whatever you want.

No way in hell do I believe that the same team that gave a $1.6M signing bonus and $0 in guarantees at signing to Brick gave a $10M genuine guarantee to a backup RB the year before. Just no way.

FYI, Brick, Mangold & Revis got $0 in genuine guarantees. They couldn't because of the injury/skill requirement. But both Brick and Mangold got a bump in 2010 salary, so, in essence, they got more money upfront.

Could you explain why you are equating a 2010 no-cap extension with a 2009 cap extension when the 2 deals would be under completely different rules?

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slats

slats

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FYI, Brick, Mangold & Revis got $0 in genuine guarantees. They couldn't because of the injury/skill requirement. But both Brick and Mangold got a bump in 2010 salary, so, in essence, they got more money upfront.

Could you explain why you are equating a 2010 no-cap extension with a 2009 cap extension when the 2 deals would be under completely different rules?

Revis has over $13M in rock solid guarantees coming next year. He has $13M guaranteed against injury, and a separate $13M guaranteed for skill. If anything happens that results in Revis not being on the team in 2011, he gets another $13M from the Jets.

Brick or Mangold could've been given larger signing bonuses. Brick could've gotten his skill guarantee at signing rather than waiting a year. The Jets chose to structure their deals the way they did for reasons other than the 2010 rules.

All three of these players are significantly more important to the team than any backup RB. No way in hell were the Jets offering Leon a genuine, rock solid $10M guarantee. Just no way. I'm extremely confident that his deal was structured very similarly to Brick's, where there was nothing guaranteed at signing, and any guarantees would've kicked in the following year. Once again, that structure had NOTHING to do with the 2010 rules, that was by the Jets' design.

If Brick suffers an injury this season that will significantly risk his playing future, the Jets have the option not to pay him anything in 2011 and beyond. If Leon signed a similar deal, I doubt the Jets ever would've paid him a dime in 2010 after his compound fracture.

You keep calling the kid stupid, but he probably didn't risk much. He probably could've done better if he'd signed - only because the Jets would've cut him and he would've been free to negotiate with teams without having to worry about trade compensation. But he didn't really risk whatever the Jets had on the table. He never would've seen that, anyway.

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GREENBEAN

GREENBEAN

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I still fail to see one thing I said that 'bad-mouthed' him.

The worst thing I said is that he wont be remembered. 10 years from now, no one but Leon Washington fans are going to talk about a change of pace RB who never amassed more than 6 TDs on the ground, nor a kick returner. READ: Dante Hall (who Leon was not).

In reality, it's the people who love Leon who get all uptight when confronted with the reality of the situation.

If bad-mouthing him is saying the Jets didn't want him, well, thus far they've managed to resign Revis, Mangold, and D'Brick. They drafted Leon's replacement (regardless of how it played out, the intent was for McKnight to take over that role) and then traded him for a 5th rounder. It's obvious the Jets (the TEAM I root for) wasn't that interested in keeping Leon around.

You guys are funny. No remembers my man Pat Chaffey do they??? DO THEY?????

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SMC

SMC

Posted
Posted

Revis has over $13M in rock solid guarantees coming next year. He has $13M guaranteed against injury, and a separate $13M guaranteed for skill. If anything happens that results in Revis not being on the team in 2011, he gets another $13M from the Jets.

Slats, I believe you screwed up your years here.

Revis gets guaranteed for injury in 2011 and 2012. He gets guaranteed for skill in 2013.

He does not get get a "rock solid guarantee" in 2011 because they can cut him for skill. The same in 2012.

Why are you saying he gets both in 2011 which is impossible under the current rules?

Due to the 30-percent rule and the reallocation rule, the two sides had to apply some creativity. Before the option is exercised, the deal carries $13.772 million in 2013 base salary guaranteed for skill and $13.772 million in 2012 and 2011 base salary guaranteed for injury. The pre-option bonus base salaries ($10.06 million in 2011, $11.894 million in 2012, and $13.772 million in 2013) reduce to the lower numbers after the option is paid.

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slats

slats

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Slats, I believe you screwed up your years here.

Revis gets guaranteed for injury in 2011 and 2012. He gets guaranteed for skill in 2013.

He does not get get a "rock solid guarantee" in 2011 because they can cut him for skill. The same in 2012.

Why are you saying he gets both in 2011 which is impossible under the current rules?

Didn't screw up a damn thing, Dude. I have no idea why you're still bothering to even argue the point.

If they cut Revis tomorrow for skill, they're on the hook for another $13M - presumably payable in 2013, but still it's 100% guaranteed.

If the Jets release him for any reason, they're on the hook for another $13M. (And as you point out, they're actually on the hook for another $26M if he suffers a career ending injury).

If they don't release him, they're paying him a $19M bonus as soon as everyone reports for work in 2011.

Minimum 100% rock solid future guarantees for Revis: $13M.

Meanwhile, the Jets can choose to release Brick for any reason today, and they're on the hook for $0 beyond 2011.

You think Leon's contract was structured more like Revis' or Brick's?

C'mon, man!

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SMC

SMC

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Didn't screw up a damn thing, Dude. I have no idea why you're still bothering to even argue the point.

If they cut Revis tomorrow for skill, they're on the hook for another $13M - presumably payable in 2013, but still it's 100% guaranteed.

If the Jets release him for any reason, they're on the hook for another $13M. (And as you point out, they're actually on the hook for another $26M if he suffers a career ending injury).

If they don't release him, they're paying him a $19M bonus as soon as everyone reports for work in 2011.

Minimum 100% rock solid future guarantees for Revis: $13M.

Meanwhile, the Jets can choose to release Brick for any reason today, and they're on the hook for $0 beyond 2011.

You think Leon's contract was structured more like Revis' or Brick's?

C'mon, man!

Okay, got it. I didn't know you were talking about 2013 and beyond. That's the benefit of staggered guarantees for injury & skill rather than having all of it for 1.

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jason423

jason423

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Just an opinion on the subject here, but I highly doubt that Leon's potential deal would have been structured like any of these others. This method of guarantees is a relatively new thing that seemed to come in play with the free agents signed this year by other clubs. This is not a common way that the Jets did business before. The Jets usual method of contract renegotiation was the way they did the Kerry Rhodes extension a few years ago. Small upfront bonus, guarantees in year 2, injury guarantees in year 3 with a potential earned skill guarantee for that year. Unlike the Revis contract saga Washingtons group never once publicly complained about the lack of any guaranteed money. They complained that there was not enough money and that Leon would not get any salary raise in his final contract year. That does not mean they were not offering him a bonus. What it means is the Jets held strong that they will not rip up the old deal and simply replace it with high numbers. It was going to be a 3 or 4 year extension tacked onto one existing year. That doesnt mean Leon wasnt getting paid in 2009. It just means that if they agree he is worth 5 million a year, Keels was looking for 5/25 and the Jets were willing to offer 5/20.5 (4/20 on the extension). The structure was not going to be to play for 500K in 2009 and then make megabucks in 2010. It was more likely going to be to play for say 3 million in 2009, 5 million in 2010, 4 million in 2011 and so on.

On these new deals there is alot of thought that goes into them. Agents feel their players are protected by prorated bonus money. Mangolds structure almost ensures him of earning 28 million regardless of what he is or is not actually guaranteed by the team. Hell probably pocket close to 32 before they consider his release. Revis' contract structure basically guarantees his whole deal. His guarantees are more or less in place to make certain he earns what he would have earned on his last contract if he did not hold out. In that respect I dont think he really gained much. He was set to get 21 million over 3. If he got hurt or cut tomorrow the guarantees in his deal will pay him his 21 million.

Did Brick get the worst deal? In hindsight he probably did. His contract is guaranteed for 34 million against skill, but the structure of the deal also projects the real contract value to likely be just 34 million before the Jets would decide to either renegotiate or (if he continues to play like he is now) release him. Once February 15th rolls around though he is the only player totally protected. If there was no cap in the future or if the Jets just decide to take the big cap charges on Mangold and Revis rather than pay full amounts of money they could in theory make far less than Brick. Id put that chance around 1%, but it could happen. Brick is totally safe.

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gg

gg

Posted
Posted

ok so i started to multiquote and respond to a whole bunch of you.. but it wasnt working and i dont want to break JN when Max is in Las Vegas gambling away the money to maintain the server. OY! :)

Anyway.. unless some of you have proof positive ( the paper with the specific contract offered LEON) all of this is rumor and speculation.

We know Mike T lies.. so what the FO is putting out is different then what is actual truth

I just cant believe that Leon turned down the kind of money that was purportedly offered.

Beyond all that.. I think that LT looks great and i am glad he is a JET. Unless something drastic happens, i expect Joe McKnight to be a non-factor, and a waste of space on the non acitve roster.

I just think Leon has had a remarkable recovery. He was at every charity event the Jets wanted him at..and often on of the co-hosts (taste of the NFL) I met him at the Taste one year.. He is incredibly warm and humble. He didnt just sign and move on, he spent a few minutes talking to me.

He was a known leader in the locker room and a fan favorite. Wanna bet they LOVE him in seattle?

Yes i want to win a Superbowl.. but i dont think having LEON on the team would have hindered that... just saying.

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jason423

jason423

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I just cant believe that Leon turned down the kind of money that was purportedly offered.

I dont think he was ever offered the crazy money that the Jets leaked to their beat guys. That was a move done to make the public sway to the Jets side. They used the same tactic with Revis. That said, the Jets did sound like they offered a pretty decent deal considering his actual on field production. And one thing to remember is that it is often the agents that accept or reject a deal. I dont believe that Keels goes back to Leon and says here it what they said "what do you think". I think it is more like he goes to the player, says the team is being unreasonable because of x, y and z and then gives him the option of holding out or reporting. I think the agent, especially in this case, will completely downplay the idea of signing a deal that is not going to get the agent any good press. This is why they dont want the team reps to have direct contact with the player. The Jets were desperate to talk with Revis with no agents present. The reason was because they knew they could convince him to just come and play and the agents will never let that happen.

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Smashmouth

Smashmouth

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Good for Leon... but I'm glad we aren't paying him 2nd contract starting RB money to return kicks.

You do realize Field Position is Pretty important plus 5-10 touches on offense . I think we made a more than fair offer that he rejected making a big mistake. but leon didnt JUST return Kicks here.

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